Helpful Replyi7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x

Page: < 123 Showing page 3 of 3
Author
outland144k
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 584
  • Joined: 2008/11/07 20:26:41
  • Location: I think I'm in front of my computer.
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/13 12:44:45 (permalink)

Jim Roseberry
With the Intel 6850k or 6900k, Reaper will playback glitch-free right up to 100% CPU load.
With the 1800x (even with RAM running at 3200MHz), Reaper can not playback glitch-free with CPU load near 100%.
 
That said, when running the Reaper version of DAW Bench (using the 64Bit version of their Multi-Band Compressor for load), the 1800x outperformed the 6850k.  (I've posted the figures here on the forums.)
When running the 32Bit version of their Multi-Band Compressor, the 6850k outperforms the 1800x.
 
With Ryzen, getting RAM to run at 3200MHz (and the motherboard to behave rock-solid) is a quest.
We've got an 1800x with RAM running at 3200MHz... and it's mostly flake free.
But... a pair of USB ports just stopped working.
X370 motherboards were rushed out the door.  Worst launch I've seen in years.
 
I have no doubt the Ryzen platform will ultimately solidify... but for now, there's no way we'd build Ryzen for clients.
 
Threadripper certainly looks interesting (on paper).
We'll see how it goes in the real-world...
 
 


 Hi Jim.


 
Where are you in Ohio? Do you do repairs?

"Beer is proof positive that God loves us and wants us to be happy."- Attributed to Ben Franklin, perhaps in error, but nonetheless a true sentiment.

 
 
 
 
 
#61
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9241
  • Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
  • Location: Ohio
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/13 16:40:54 (permalink)
Just outside of Columbus.
Shoot me a PM for details.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#62
CedricM
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 112
  • Joined: 2015/05/11 05:07:43
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/16 23:16:29 (permalink)
Did you bench Sonar Platinum and did it give the same results as Reaper ?
It seems Reaper is very strong at not clicking and popping until 100 % cpu useage, whereas Ableton encounters glitches with much more modest cpu loads. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIoAlEV2IK0
Would be interesting to know where Sonar stands.
 
#63
CedricM
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 112
  • Joined: 2015/05/11 05:07:43
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/16 23:45:52 (permalink)
Slightly off topic.
Obviously, no benchmark is perfect but it would be interesting to know what kind of plugins are really used by people on real projects and in which quantity (I assume nr 1 would be EQ plugins, compressors would be popular and almost always there would be at least one delay or reverb).
I wonder if Cakewalk or Avid has access to such metrics.
 
Also, I could imagine that for obvious mathematical reasons, a sine wave signal is too simple to be representative of a real life sound/music, and that some plugins would be able to highly optimize around it. I wonder if there was any research about it, unfortunately the dawbench forum is closed.
#64
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9241
  • Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
  • Location: Ohio
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/17 13:05:06 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby CedricM 2017/06/17 14:13:09
CedricM
Did you bench Sonar Platinum and did it give the same results as Reaper ?
It seems Reaper is very strong at not clicking and popping until 100 % cpu useage, whereas Ableton encounters glitches with much more modest cpu loads. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIoAlEV2IK0
Would be interesting to know where Sonar stands.



My point in benchmarking wasn't to rank Sonar's multi-core performance...
Rather... to compare the hardware itself (mostly focusing on how Ryzen 1800 compared)
So I kept the stress-test consistent across hardware platforms.
 
Reaper is certainly well optimized for multi-core CPUs.
If you're talking about socket 2011-3 CPUs, yes... you can push them up to 100% load (playing audio glitch-free) at a 48-sample ASIO buffer size.
With socket 1151, you can't push the CPU load quite as far (~95%).
With Ryzen 1800x (RAM running at 3200MHz), you can push CPU load to ~93%.
 
Sonar multi-core performance isn't quite as efficient as Reaper... but certainly more so than Ableton Live.
One thing to keep in mind; Live was designed to work in a much different way than typical "linear" style DAW applications.  ie: Audio warping is enabled by default.  This is going to affect CPU use.
Even with a 6850k, you top out at ~80% load (at a 48-sample ASIO buffer size).
I don't see Live as a replacement for more traditional type composing/recording applications... so (at least for me) it's not much of a real-world limitation.
 
The complexity of the audio signal has no affect on CPU load.
Doesn't matter if you're feeding the plugin a sine wave, white/pink noise, vocals, guitar, drums, etc.
CPU load is consistent.
 
I agree that DAW Bench isn't 100% analogous to a typical real-world project... in that you're not looking to run 500 instances of the same exact plugin.  
It's just a relatively simple way to mark/compare audio specific low-latency performance.
An easy point of comparison...

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#65
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9241
  • Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
  • Location: Ohio
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/17 13:07:54 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby CedricM 2017/06/17 14:13:12
The reason for the Sine Waves as load tracks:
Because it's super obvious when there's a glitch.  
A complex signal could potentially mask a small tick/pop... or at the very least make it harder to hear.
With a sign wave, any pop/tick is glaringly obvious.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#66
CedricM
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 112
  • Joined: 2015/05/11 05:07:43
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/17 14:15:22 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
The reason for the Sine Waves as load tracks:
Because it's super obvious when there's a glitch.  
A complex signal could potentially mask a small tick/pop... or at the very least make it harder to hear.
With a sign wave, any pop/tick is glaringly obvious.


Didn't think of that !
 
I hope we're not there yet, but I feared some plugin editors or daw producers would be tempted to exploit the sine, the same way graphics drivers came to be specifically optimized for benchmark loads, until it was publicized and they agreed to cheat less ;-)
#67
CedricM
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 112
  • Joined: 2015/05/11 05:07:43
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/19 16:05:03 (permalink)
The pre-orderable Core X processors could be pretty interesting for music production, most notably the Core i7-7820X (599 $) with its high turbo/max frequency.
First tests by Anandtech show good performance with loads that are probably the most comparable to DAW loads (encoding, decoding, rendering).
To fully benefit from it though one would want to wait for all the new x299 chipset/motherboards to fix their problems and odditiies, and for software developers such as Cakewalk and VTS/i makers to take advantage of AVX-512 (F, VL, BW, DQ & CD).
#68
ramirezonlinenet
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2
  • Joined: 2017/06/22 20:28:44
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/22 20:32:48 (permalink)
Hi, 
I'm about to build a music production pc. But I'm really confused in what I should get. 
I will mostly be working with with a lot of vst' and processing. I would like to have latency-free or at least, I don't want to feel it that much. Should I get the i7 7700k? or 6800k ? ,
#69
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9241
  • Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
  • Location: Ohio
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/22 20:44:12 (permalink)
Your audio interface will determine the lowest latency you can achieve.
IOW, If your audio interface yields 12ms total round-trip latency at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size, the machine itself can't improve on that.  In this example, to achieve round-trip latency of 4.9ms, you'd need a different audio interface.
The machine obviously has to be able to keep up with the load... 
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#70
ramirezonlinenet
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2
  • Joined: 2017/06/22 20:28:44
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/22 20:56:04 (permalink)
Got it! 
 
And what about the usage of a lot of vst's and processing? should a i7 7700k be enough? .- Most of the time I find myself using like 30 - 50 vsti's and mixing it. But if needed I can also bounce them as audio and open it in a new blank project. 
 
#71
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9241
  • Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
  • Location: Ohio
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/23 11:52:23 (permalink)
Unless you're working on super dense projects, the 7700k will be more than sufficient.
ie:  If you're doing huge orchestral mock-ups... pulling 4000 stereo voices of disk-streaming polyphony, you'll want socket 2011-3.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#72
TerraSin
Max Output Level: -56.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1859
  • Joined: 2005/08/05 00:27:13
  • Location: USA
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/25 16:46:18 (permalink)
I'm very interested to see how the new Intel i9/X299 is going to hold up against AMD Ryzen Threadripper. It's no big secret that Intel for a lot of years now has been stalling progression on processor technology as far as to say they have the new technology developed but have not been releasing it to consumers in any form. There is a good chance that it's going to bite them in the ass this time as the i9 comes pre-gimped with a lot of rubbish that feels rushed in order to try and compete with what AMD is now doing.
 
That said, I've used AMD in the past and I've had nothing but issues so I worry about going back to them as some of the specs and benchmarks even here show they are still behind a bit in the game when put to the test. Right now I wish they both companies would start working on not only the amounts of cores available in a processor, but the actual clock speeds as we've been stuck in this 3.5Ghz - 4Ghz slump for several years now with very few increases. Part of the problem is finding adequate cooling solutions that work on the consumer market but I feel like it's not something that can't be taken care of with a little engineering and upgrading stock coolers to something along the lines of vacuum coolers.
 
https://youtu.be/TWFzWRoVNnE?t=230 This video pretty much spells out what Intel is doing with X299.
 
I will say one thing I'm looking forward to is onboard support of 128GB of DDR4 RAM.
post edited by TerraSin - 2017/06/25 17:17:09
#73
noiseboy
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 416
  • Joined: 2007/01/24 08:57:16
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/29 08:07:44 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
Unless you're working on super dense projects, the 7700k will be more than sufficient.
ie:  If you're doing huge orchestral mock-ups... pulling 4000 stereo voices of disk-streaming polyphony, you'll want socket 2011-3.

 
Found this thread via the wonders of Google, and Jim you seem to have been round the block here...
 
I'm in something of a dilemma.  I have a 4930k system with which I've been less an enamoured.  Compared to my son's humble i5 1156 system, it feels clunky (OS chores and post POST boots are terrible even with SSDs that are benchmarking well), and it's never felt like a genuine step up from my previous 2600k.  I do indeed occasionally do huge orchestral mockups with a big ol VE Pro template, but thats now a fairly small part of my work.  Plenty of synths though in day to day use rack up the CPU load and can cause trouble, so I'm looking for something that will feel much snappier in practice and handle the heavy CPU and streaming stuff.
 
I was toying with the 7740k on the X299 platform due to the increased SATA and NVMe lanes, combined with the very good single core performance.  But perhaps the 7820X would be a better choice - the two negatives are a lower non-turbo boosted single core, and the power consumption / heat looks very high - problematic for keeping a silent rig, and really puts me off any thought of overclocking.  Or maybe I should in fact go the other way and just get a 7700k with Z270?  It would be nice to go up to 128gb RAM, but I think I can keep things under 64gb (and of course I'd need to with the 7740k as well).
 
Grateful for any insights, many thanks.

Win 7 64 bit, i7 4930, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface

www.guyrowland.co.uk

#74
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9241
  • Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
  • Location: Ohio
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/29 12:36:16 (permalink)
noiseboy
Jim Roseberry
Unless you're working on super dense projects, the 7700k will be more than sufficient.
ie:  If you're doing huge orchestral mock-ups... pulling 4000 stereo voices of disk-streaming polyphony, you'll want socket 2011-3.

 
Found this thread via the wonders of Google, and Jim you seem to have been round the block here...
 
I'm in something of a dilemma.  I have a 4930k system with which I've been less an enamoured.  Compared to my son's humble i5 1156 system, it feels clunky (OS chores and post POST boots are terrible even with SSDs that are benchmarking well), and it's never felt like a genuine step up from my previous 2600k.  I do indeed occasionally do huge orchestral mockups with a big ol VE Pro template, but thats now a fairly small part of my work.  Plenty of synths though in day to day use rack up the CPU load and can cause trouble, so I'm looking for something that will feel much snappier in practice and handle the heavy CPU and streaming stuff.
 
I was toying with the 7740k on the X299 platform due to the increased SATA and NVMe lanes, combined with the very good single core performance.  But perhaps the 7820X would be a better choice - the two negatives are a lower non-turbo boosted single core, and the power consumption / heat looks very high - problematic for keeping a silent rig, and really puts me off any thought of overclocking.  Or maybe I should in fact go the other way and just get a 7700k with Z270?  It would be nice to go up to 128gb RAM, but I think I can keep things under 64gb (and of course I'd need to with the 7740k as well).
 
Grateful for any insights, many thanks.



 
Hi Noise,
 
The 7700k is a formidable CPU.
For more typical audio production, you can run dense projects.
 
For large-scale orchestral mock-ups, you're better off with a socket 2011-3 system.
As a point of reference (using socket 2011-3), we have clients who stream up to 4000 stereo voices of disk-streaming polyphony (Kontakt libraries/etc).  That takes numerous SSDs (including m.2 Ultra/PCIe x4).
 
Socket-2066 (with slightly higher clock-speed) will be a small percentage faster than socket 2011-3.
Extrapolate 6900k vs. 6850k (both up to 4.5GHz)... and you'll have an idea of what to expect.
With 8 cores running at 4.5GHz, the 7820x is going to be the "sweet spot" price/performance wise... but... it's limited to 28 PCIe lanes (limiting if you want to run multiple x4 SSDs).
That's disappointing in a $600 CPU.  The 7900x has 44 PCIe lanes.
If you go socket 2066, I'd sit it out a few months... and wait for several BIOS updates to solidify the platform.
I don't expect the same level of issues experienced with the Ryzen/X370 release, but 1st-generation motherboards will have early issues that need to be ironed out.
You can keep socket 2066 CPUs quiet, but it's going to take a high-end cooler.
 
Right at this moment, it's hard to find the 7900x and 7820x actually in-stock and available to purchase.
 
The 6850k is still a great CPU (now sub $500)... and a rock-solid choice for a professional.
  • 6 cores running at 4GHz
  • 40 PCIe lanes
  • Mature socket 2011-3 platform
 
ThreadRipper (AMD's next release) looks very interesting on paper.
  • 16 cores
  • 64 PCIe lanes
  • Quad-channel RAM
 
What a great time to be involved with DAW technology!
 
 
 
 
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#75
noiseboy
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 416
  • Joined: 2007/01/24 08:57:16
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/06/29 18:05:37 (permalink)
Thank you Jim, very helpful, though Ill confess I'm still weaving around trying to make a decision. I still have the fear that a 7820x at stock isn't going to give me enough CPU power on the VIs.  Your last sentence was particularly ironic since I may end up hanging in there for next year's 10nm tech.  I just have a feeling these current processors, although powerful, are pushed too far heat and power-wise, a rush job to get something out the door - and that feels like a step backwards.  If I don't upgrade now, work dictates it'll really be next summer for my next shot at it.
 
Again, very much appreciate the advice though - translating all the data and benchmarks into something real world for us is very tricky.
 

Win 7 64 bit, i7 4930, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface

www.guyrowland.co.uk

#76
Grem
Max Output Level: -25.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 4965
  • Joined: 2005/06/28 09:26:32
  • Location: Baton Rouge Area
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/07/11 22:22:45 (permalink)
noiseboy
 
- translating all the data and benchmarks into something real world for us is very tricky.




You hit the nail on the head there. That's why I look to people like Jim that do this stuff for a living. Are their benchmarks perfect? No. But it's as close as we can get to something that gives us the results we need to make decisions based on "bang for buck!" : )

Grem

Michael
 
Music PC
i7 2600K; 8gb Ram; 3 256gb SSD, System, Samples, Audio; 1TB Project Storage; 2TB system BkUp; VS-100; Win 10 Pro 64; Sonar Platinum 64,
 
Home PC
AMD FX 6300; 8gb Ram; 256 SSD sys; 2TB audio/samples; Realtek WASAPI; Win 10 Home 64; Sonar Platinum 64
 
Surface Pro 3
Win 10  i7 8gb RAM

 
#77
Jtf8751
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2
  • Joined: 2017/07/15 17:53:06
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/07/15 18:29:09 (permalink)
Jim, while I am new here but not to the discussion of these two CPUs, Ive went back and forth with building a new DAW workstation and what to use for my next build. I use alot of guitar virtual amplifier modeling software like Amplitude, BIAS, and TH3. I record tracks that I create then add in effects, vocals, etc. So I need the lowest latency interface along with a CPU and GPU to smoothly record and interlace my music. I did try the Rayzen and Intel from buddies I have that have home studios and I can say that the Intel seemed to not bottleneck at all under load and even mixing multiple tracks . The Rayzen did have a few crackle when I mixed. But I tried two different Rayzen and Intel builds . My question to you is, for the average home user that likes to create music/videos and do some mixing with Amplitude and Reaper what motherboard/chipset would you recommend that has Thunderbolt because there are now more of them that have it. I'll be using 16 gb of ram, SSD, a big mechanical drive, a 1050 video card, the Intel i7 7700k cpu, with dark rock cooler, and silent case. But I can't figure out which board to go with that supports thunderbolt because I'll need that with my interface. Would you mind recommending one and maybe an interface for my guitar from your expertise? Thanks.
#78
abacab
Max Output Level: -51.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2397
  • Joined: 2014/12/31 19:34:07
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/07/16 12:11:02 (permalink)
Jtf8751
But I can't figure out which board to go with that supports thunderbolt because I'll need that with my interface. Would you mind recommending one and maybe an interface for my guitar from your expertise? Thanks.



Jim answered the Thunderbolt on PC question here:
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3571167
 

Cakewalk: Sonar Platinum x64 2017-06; X3e; Dimension Pro; Rapture, Z3TA+2; CA-2A  Other: Iris 2; SynthMaster; SampleTank 3; AIR AIEP 3; Ignite; SONiVOX, VocalizerPro; BIAB; Waveform OS: Win10 Pro x64 1607 System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; WD 1.0TB 7200rpm; PCIe FireWire (TI)  Audio: M-Audio FW-410 ASIO; M-Audio DX-4  Controllers: A-300PRO; Axiom; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Midisport; Mackie 1202
#79
interpolated
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 599
  • Joined: 2015/03/26 17:34:58
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/07/16 13:10:46 (permalink)
I had my mind set on i7 although AMD Threadripper with it's 64 PCI-E lanes is an interesting concept.
 

I have computer stuff.
 
https://soundcloud.com/sigmadelta
#80
Jtf8751
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2
  • Joined: 2017/07/15 17:53:06
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/07/16 18:44:41 (permalink)
Thanks guys, maybe I don't need to go Thunderbolt. Maybe Jim will chime in and tell us what he thinks now since he probably has tested numerous builds now. I'm sure he has a go to board or something he recommends now. Thanks again.
#81
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9241
  • Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
  • Location: Ohio
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/07/17 12:32:51 (permalink)
interpolated
I had my mind set on i7 although AMD Threadripper with it's 64 PCI-E lanes is an interesting concept.



On paper, Threadripper certainly looks impressive.
Let's hope motherboard support (upon release) is a *whole* lot better than the initial Ryzen release.
Ryzen's initial release was the most rushed/flaky I've seen in the past 30 years.
 
With Skylake Extreme, you have to go with the 7900x ($1000) to get 44 PCIe lanes.
The 7820x ($600) has 28 PCIe lanes.
If you're not running dual video cards... and not running multiple PCIe x4 SSD drives... you'll most likely be fine.
For more complex builds, you'll want the 7900k.
 
 
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#82
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9241
  • Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
  • Location: Ohio
  • Status: offline
Re: i7-6850k vs. i7-7700k vs. Ryzen 1800x 2017/07/17 15:16:52 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abacab 2017/07/17 15:28:24
Jtf8751
Thanks guys, maybe I don't need to go Thunderbolt. Maybe Jim will chime in and tell us what he thinks now since he probably has tested numerous builds now. I'm sure he has a go to board or something he recommends now. Thanks again.



It's a multi-faceted consideration... so there's not a "one-size-fits-all" type answer.
 
Thunderbolt provides access to the PCIe bus.  Nothing more... nothing less
For PC users, it's much less "pressing" because we have PCIe slots.
No current generation Mac has any other means to access the PCIe bus.
IMO, That was a bit short sighted on Apples part... along with no means to add internal drives.
 
Microsoft now offers full "PCIe via Thunderbolt" support for Win10.
You have to meet all the following conditions:
  • Running one of the latest Z170, Z270, or X99 motherboards that provide Thunderbolt-3 via USB-C port
  • Running an up-to-date install of Win10
  • Need a USB-C to Thunderbolt adapter
  • Your audio interface needs full "PCIe via Thunderbolt" driver
To my knowledge, only MOTU, UA, and RME currently have "PCIe via Thunderbolt" drivers available for Windows.
Make sure you know the details for the audio interface you're considering.
Don't assume just because it's available that it supports "PCIe via Thunderbolt" under Windows.
I've seen numerous folks recommending the Focusrite Clarett series to Windows users.
If you read the fine print on the Focusrite website, the current beta-status driver doesn't (yet) support running a Clarett via Thunderbolt-3 (where Thunderbolt-3 is via a USB-C connection with a USB-C to Thunderbolt-2 adapter).
Thunderbolt support under Windows is relatively new.  Know all the details before buying the audio interface.
 
NOTE (to eliminate some confusion):  
A USB-C port can carry USB-3.1 or Thunderbolt-3.
A motherboard can have USB-C port/s and not have a Thunderbolt-3 controller.
In this case, the USB-C port is carrying USB-3.1 (will not work with Thunderbolt peripherals).
If a motherboard does not have a Thunderbolt-3 controller, it doesn't have Thunderbolt.
If the motherboard has a Thunderbolt-3 controller, you'll need a USB-C to Thunderbolt-2 adapter.
Apple makes one for ~$50.
Some folks have had issues with the Apple adapter... but it's worked perfectly fine in every configuration we've tested (many different PC motherboards Z170/Z270/X99, custom PC laptops, and of course with Macs).
 
The advantage of Thunderbolt-3:
The main advantage of a Thunderbolt audio interface is PCIe level performance.
That means being able to run at ASIO buffer sizes smaller than 64-samples.
Typically, PCIe audio interfaces allow running at a 32-sample ASIO buffer size.  
Some allow going down to 16-samples.
 
While the UA Apollo Thunderbolt series is excellent (both in super low noise and fidelity), the lowest round-trip latency (at a 32-sample ASIO buffer size) is about on-par with the RME Fireface UFX (USB-2 audio interface).
 
The MOTU AVB series (when connected via Thunderbolt) will allow you to achieve sub 2ms total round-trip latency.
 
Running a Thunderbolt audio interface (with a modern build DAW), you won't notice any appreciable performance difference vs. running one of the best USB-2 audio interfaces.
I've compared PCIe and Thunderbolt units vs. the RME Fireface UFX.
PCIe and Thunderbolt won't buy you any additional DSP processing power.
 
Unless you're after sub 3ms total round-trip latency, there's no substantial advantage to a Thunderbolt (or PCIe) audio interface.
 
Note that Microsoft doesn't support "PCIe via Thunderbolt" with any Thunderbolt-2 controller.
If your motherboard has Thunderbolt-2 or offers a Thunderbolt-2 add-in-card, this will not work.
 
Thunderbolt-3 limits your motherboard choice considerably.
With X299 motherboards (just released), the options for Thunderbolt-3 are *extremely* limited.
Even with X99 motherboards, your options are fairly limited.
With Z270 motherboards, there are more choices with Thunderbolt-3.
 
As round-trip latency decreases, the load on the machine increases:
If you plan to run audio projects at a 16-sample ASIO buffer size, the load on the machine is HUGE.
Even the most monstrous of DAWs will struggle with large projects.
16-samples equates to about 0.375ms.
The machine has 0.375ms to process/fill the next audio buffer... or you'll hear a pop/tick.
Double that ASIO buffer size to 32-samples, and the machine has a whopping 0.75ms to process/fill the next audio buffer.
 
 
Knowing all the details, you can make a solid decision as to whether Thunderbolt is significant to your particular situation/needs.
 
 
 
 
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#83
Page: < 123 Showing page 3 of 3
Jump to:
© 2017 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1