cryophonik
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 15:05:31
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Eh....Burial is very much an exception. The reality is that, just like the guitarists, bassists, drummers, etc. among us, musicians who make electronica come in all shapes and sizes and backgrounds and skill levels and musical abilities, etc etc etc, and most of them are not simply chopping up loops and calling it a song. While it's true that the population is skewed toward those with little traditional musical knowledge or performance capabilities, they are largely a resourceful bunch that is always pushing the envelope and looking for new ways of making music. One thing that I find peculiar in these types of discussions is how frequently the self-proclaimed "educated" musicians seem to have forgotten the importance of traditional folk music, which was once considered only for the uncultured and under-educated masses, and fail to see its parallels with electronica. Whether the violin-huggers or guitar-huggers like it or not, electronic music has established itself as a legitimate form of music over the past few decades and will surely influence music far into the future. At least we know that Cakewalk gets it. 
post edited by cryophonik - 2011/07/26 15:09:32
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 15:05:56
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John T
Mike, this is really, really poor argumentation. You raised a comparison, presumably it's open for discussion.
I wish you wouldn't do this when the grown ups are talking.
I'm trying out my new reading skills and It seemed like a good time to remind you that you said you didn't want to compare... but then you jumped at an opportunity to do so.... which seems to have inspired you to *synthesize* yet another well crafted insult to further an opportunity for more comparisons.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 15:08:36
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cryophonik
Eh....Burial is very much an exception. The reality is that, just like the guitarists, bassists, drummers, etc. among us, musicians who make electronica come in all shapes and sizes and backgrounds and skill levels and musical abilities, etc etc etc, and most of them are not simply chopping up loops and calling it a song. While it's true that the population is skewed toward those with little traditional musical knowledge or performance capabilities, they are largely a resourceful bunch that is always pushing the envelope and looking for new ways of making music.
One thing that I find peculiar in these types of discussions is how infrequently the self-proclaimed "educated" musicians seem to have forgotten the importance of traditional folk music, which was once considered only for the uncultured and under-educated masses, and fail to see its parallels with electronica. Whether the violin-huggers or guitar-huggers like it or not, electronic music has established itself as a legitimate form of music over the past few decades and will surely influence music far into the future. At least we know that Cakewalk gets it.
We have a type of discussion going on down in the Coffee House where the idea that classical music is rooted in folk music has been emphasized.
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John T
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 15:09:50
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cryophonik
Eh....Burial is very much an exception. The reality is that, just like the guitarists, bassists, drummers, etc. among us, musicians who make electronica come in all shapes and sizes and backgrounds and skill levels and musical abilities, etc etc etc, and most of them are not simply chopping up loops and calling it a song. While it's true that the population is skewed toward those with little traditional musical knowledge or performance capabilities, they are largely a resourceful bunch that is always pushing the envelope and looking for new ways of making music.
One thing that I find peculiar in these types of discussions is how frequently the self-proclaimed "educated" musicians seem to have forgotten the importance of traditional folk music, which was once considered only for the uncultured and under-educated masses, and fail to see its parallels with electronica. Whether the violin-huggers or guitar-huggers like it or not, electronic music has established itself as a legitimate form of music over the past few decades and will surely influence music far into the future. At least we know that Cakewalk gets it.
Agree entirely with this.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 15:11:59
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John T
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 15:17:18
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mike_mccue
John T
Mike, this is really, really poor argumentation. You raised a comparison, presumably it's open for discussion.
I wish you wouldn't do this when the grown ups are talking.
I'm trying out my new reading skills and It seemed like a good time to remind you that you said you didn't want to compare... but then you jumped at an opportunity to do so.... which seems to have inspired you to *synthesize* yet another well crafted insult to further an opportunity for more comparisons.
You really are a staggeringly unintelligent individual. This is just childish "neyer nyer" stuff.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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Jonbouy
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 15:21:39
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cryophonik
Eh....Burial is very much an exception. The reality is that, just like the guitarists, bassists, drummers, etc. among us, musicians who make electronica come in all shapes and sizes and backgrounds and skill levels and musical abilities, etc etc etc, and most of them are not simply chopping up loops and calling it a song. While it's true that the population is skewed toward those with little traditional musical knowledge or performance capabilities, they are largely a resourceful bunch that is always pushing the envelope and looking for new ways of making music.
One thing that I find peculiar in these types of discussions is how frequently the self-proclaimed "educated" musicians seem to have forgotten the importance of traditional folk music, which was once considered only for the uncultured and under-educated masses, and fail to see its parallels with electronica. Whether the violin-huggers or guitar-huggers like it or not, electronic music has established itself as a legitimate form of music over the past few decades and will surely influence music far into the future. At least we know that Cakewalk gets it.
Folk music in it's purest unadulterated olde English tradition. Not too many see it that way even now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmHhB9zV_rQ
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 15:25:37
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Jonbouy
cryophonik
Eh....Burial is very much an exception. The reality is that, just like the guitarists, bassists, drummers, etc. among us, musicians who make electronica come in all shapes and sizes and backgrounds and skill levels and musical abilities, etc etc etc, and most of them are not simply chopping up loops and calling it a song. While it's true that the population is skewed toward those with little traditional musical knowledge or performance capabilities, they are largely a resourceful bunch that is always pushing the envelope and looking for new ways of making music.
One thing that I find peculiar in these types of discussions is how frequently the self-proclaimed "educated" musicians seem to have forgotten the importance of traditional folk music, which was once considered only for the uncultured and under-educated masses, and fail to see its parallels with electronica. Whether the violin-huggers or guitar-huggers like it or not, electronic music has established itself as a legitimate form of music over the past few decades and will surely influence music far into the future. At least we know that Cakewalk gets it.
Folk music in it's purest unadulterated olde English tradition.
Not too many see it that way even now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmHhB9zV_rQ
Folk me that's good 
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Jonbouy
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 15:27:26
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SteveStrummerUK
Jonbouy
cryophonik
Eh....Burial is very much an exception. The reality is that, just like the guitarists, bassists, drummers, etc. among us, musicians who make electronica come in all shapes and sizes and backgrounds and skill levels and musical abilities, etc etc etc, and most of them are not simply chopping up loops and calling it a song. While it's true that the population is skewed toward those with little traditional musical knowledge or performance capabilities, they are largely a resourceful bunch that is always pushing the envelope and looking for new ways of making music.
One thing that I find peculiar in these types of discussions is how frequently the self-proclaimed "educated" musicians seem to have forgotten the importance of traditional folk music, which was once considered only for the uncultured and under-educated masses, and fail to see its parallels with electronica. Whether the violin-huggers or guitar-huggers like it or not, electronic music has established itself as a legitimate form of music over the past few decades and will surely influence music far into the future. At least we know that Cakewalk gets it.
Folk music in it's purest unadulterated olde English tradition.
Not too many see it that way even now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmHhB9zV_rQ
Folk me that's good
The concerns of the ordinary folk expressed musically by those same ordinary folk. Folk Rock!
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Jonbouy
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 15:31:01
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Mike's a traditional elitist, he knows it.
He needs to take a leaf out of 'olpals book and stop misbehavin' on this thread.
Maybe I ought to start looping some of his stuff in Sonar and make it sound 'pro'.
Whaddya say Mike?
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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John T
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 15:32:03
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Funny band the Sex Pistols. The further back in time it gets, the odder and odder the idea that punks couldn't play well gets, to me. That's a hell of a band they've got there. Sure, it's not jazz fusion or anything, but most bands can't even dream of playing with that amount of force and authority.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 15:37:58
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John T
Funny band the Sex Pistols. The further back in time it gets, the odder and odder the idea that punks couldn't play well gets, to me. That's a hell of a band they've got there.
Well, that's one pile of crap band they've got there John. Now, when Glen Matlock was playing bass and doing a lot of the song-writing, they were quite magnificent. But that video always amazes me in that Sid can't even make a decent fist of miming to Glen's original bassline.
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BEATZM1D10T
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 15:38:53
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I think most musicians spend the majority of their time online now. That's why you hardly see groups of that caliber anymore.
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Bub 
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 15:51:09
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Man, I lay off the forums for a couple of days and I come back to this. The bass and rhythm guitar in the song in my signature is all loops I made. The drums are stock loops in X1 and there is a second layer that is played live on top of the loops via a midi drum pads. What category does that put me in? It's apparently the worst of both worlds. LOL! 
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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cryophonik
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 15:55:20
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SteveStrummerUK
Jonbouy
cryophonik
Eh....Burial is very much an exception. The reality is that, just like the guitarists, bassists, drummers, etc. among us, musicians who make electronica come in all shapes and sizes and backgrounds and skill levels and musical abilities, etc etc etc, and most of them are not simply chopping up loops and calling it a song. While it's true that the population is skewed toward those with little traditional musical knowledge or performance capabilities, they are largely a resourceful bunch that is always pushing the envelope and looking for new ways of making music.
One thing that I find peculiar in these types of discussions is how frequently the self-proclaimed "educated" musicians seem to have forgotten the importance of traditional folk music, which was once considered only for the uncultured and under-educated masses, and fail to see its parallels with electronica. Whether the violin-huggers or guitar-huggers like it or not, electronic music has established itself as a legitimate form of music over the past few decades and will surely influence music far into the future. At least we know that Cakewalk gets it.
Folk music in it's purest unadulterated olde English tradition.
Not too many see it that way even now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmHhB9zV_rQ
Folk me that's good
I prefer Dead Kennedys. (uh oh, now things are REALLY gonna get ugly!)
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Keni
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 15:57:32
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I'm a bit weary of such selections...
So I'm off to play some melodic vocals on one of my Rocktronica Hop-Rap in Classical Tribal Blues format songs...
I hate everyone successful... Everyone must really hate them too... That's why they became popular so they must do something awful...
Eric Clapton... Tangerine Dream... Blues, Rock, Electronica, Folk... Do we really have to decide what 'good' is or simply enjoy what we enjoy?
The technicalities of 'good' when comparing to some kind of scale/measure is truly very arbitrary when applied to any art... and beside the point if people enjoy it anyway. For them it's entertainment and not a competition...
Is it really such a competition for so many of us here? I for one have always refrained from entering any competitons as I'm not trying to compete with anyone. Simply make my art and develop (hopefully)...
Long before we had home pc's I was using step sequencers and looping tapes... These are tools in my arsenal and I use them if they fit my current need...
So tho I don't use these tools in Sonar, I'm glad they're there as I may want them for some project... I don't want to fight over who's art is 'better' or which tools are more 'important'...
If Sonar was just coming out I'd be thrilled at it's enormous power. what bothers me is the loss of some capabilites (that are particularly disturbing to me) that this product already had and now the road back requires more discussion and convincing and waiting to get it back.... I'm sure it will happen or what would the Bakers have to look forward to? There's gotta be more things to create/add/fix... and I'm glad they're there doing it even if not always by my personal preferences...
So as to the original thread here and hoping we can talk about that instead of personal confrontations between so many people.... Let's see if we can simply list the things we all want and help Cakewalk satsify us all?
Novices, pro's, hobbyists, etc.... Let's make a world of Happy Sonar Users!
Keni
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 16:03:44
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cryophonik
SteveStrummerUK
Jonbouy
cryophonik
Eh....Burial is very much an exception. The reality is that, just like the guitarists, bassists, drummers, etc. among us, musicians who make electronica come in all shapes and sizes and backgrounds and skill levels and musical abilities, etc etc etc, and most of them are not simply chopping up loops and calling it a song. While it's true that the population is skewed toward those with little traditional musical knowledge or performance capabilities, they are largely a resourceful bunch that is always pushing the envelope and looking for new ways of making music.
One thing that I find peculiar in these types of discussions is how frequently the self-proclaimed "educated" musicians seem to have forgotten the importance of traditional folk music, which was once considered only for the uncultured and under-educated masses, and fail to see its parallels with electronica. Whether the violin-huggers or guitar-huggers like it or not, electronic music has established itself as a legitimate form of music over the past few decades and will surely influence music far into the future. At least we know that Cakewalk gets it.
Folk music in it's purest unadulterated olde English tradition.
Not too many see it that way even now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmHhB9zV_rQ
Folk me that's good
I prefer Dead Kennedys. (uh oh, now things are REALLY gonna get ugly!)
He he - but Dave, the finest punk band of all time is The Clash - every fule kno dat I still have my copy of Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables though
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DerGeist
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 16:04:42
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I enjoyed David Gilmour's album with The Orb.
Am I crusty guitar rock dinosaur or an uneducated techno appreciator?
I need to know soon, it will help me decide what shirt to wear.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 16:22:06
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Sex Pistols?
My wife and I watched Sid and Nancy last Friday. Bapu couldn't make it.
Never Mind the Bullocks was a great album.
It should be... it was mixed by Chris Thomas... the same guy who Mixed DSOM, Pretenders, Badfinger, etc.
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yorolpal
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 16:28:42
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Wail, it looked ta me like ol Sid was doin purty good just ta remain vertically oriented. And like the grip he had on that there bass was just to steady hisself. Hell, I been there, done that, urinated on the tshirt and then vomited on it fer good measure. Rock on, me droogies.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 16:31:55
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I remember dancing at a house party in Gainesville one night when you did that on the drum kit.
You dawg.
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Jonbouy
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 16:43:05
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We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July
I'm guessing we'll have to wait until then for more information on X1C. 2 minutes 'till midnight is still classed as late I presume?
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/07/26 16:44:20
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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yorolpal
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 16:46:02
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Oh my lord, was I in Gainsville??? The Florida-Florida State game?? Jeeze Louise I've been tellin people my whole life it was in Knoxville at the UT-Alabama game. There was as least six inches of beer on the floor of the frat house basement. I talked myself out of a speedin ticket about 6 a.m. the next mornin while tryin to get back to Nashville from an understandin state trooper while my girlfriend was pukin out of the passenger door. No foolin! I'm pretty sure it WAS Knoxville tho.
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Jonbouy
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 17:02:10
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Jeeze Louise I've been tellin people my whole life it was in Knoxville at the UT-Alabama game There was always something about that story that didn't add up to me.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Notecrusher
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/26 23:20:38
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What about outsider music like the Shaggs? Most people don't even consider it "music" and can't bear to listen to it. I think their Philosophy of the World is one of the greatest records ever made. I know a musician who calls it "the only record that matters". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN9UT2zF8c8
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mumpcake
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/27 00:59:05
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Eh....Burial is very much an exception. The reality is that, just like the guitarists, bassists, drummers, etc. among us, musicians who make electronica come in all shapes and sizes and backgrounds and skill levels and musical abilities, etc etc etc, and most of them are not simply chopping up loops and calling it a song. Of course not. Everyone knows the way to make electronica is to record a few snippets of midi that go together, program a few beats, automate your filters, and then call it a song! Here's a story that might piss off both sides: late one night as I was driving home, one radio station was playing a dance mix. I realized if I did not change the channel the repetition might put me in a trance where I could zone out and drive off the road. So I changed channels to where they had a jam band show. Again, I realized if I did not change the channel the repetition might put me in a trance where I could zone out and drive off the road.
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JClosed
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/27 01:22:21
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Well - about "putting pieces together and claim it is music"... One of my all-time favourites still is a band that was born in 1968. It was called "White Noise", and the main "players" where David Vorhaus, Delia Derbyshire and Brian Hodgson. You can argue if it is music or not, but I liked it and it inspired me hugely at young age. For repetitive music and "proto-punk/trance" - nothing beats Can in my opinion. Albums as "Tago Mago" and "Ege Bamyasi" are (also in my opinion) classic in this genre. Still have a weak spot for Amon Duul too... Anyway - I am curious to see if more information about X1c coming out soon...
post edited by JClosed - 2011/07/27 01:38:00
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John T
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/27 05:20:01
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Notecrusher
What about outsider music like the Shaggs? Most people don't even consider it "music" and can't bear to listen to it. I think their Philosophy of the World is one of the greatest records ever made. I know a musician who calls it "the only record that matters".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN9UT2zF8c8
The Shaggs were ace. Absolutely insane sounding stuff.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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LJB
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Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/27 05:36:47
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I've heard some insanely good musical technicians bore me to death, and some computer geeks create brilliant music using nothing but what came free with Garage Band.
Which is better, a guy who learns all the notes but loses the soul, or a guy who creates an emotional response with the tools he has, be it a 1957 Gibson or tin can, or a sample of a tin can?
Art is a word that summarizes the "Quality Of Communication". In other words, it's a personal experience of the communication and whether it evokes an emotional response in the audience/viewer of the art.
There is no real other workable definition for "ART", and therefore also for one of it's sub genres, MUSIC.
Maybe if we all try to remember that we are all artists in at least our own eyes, this pathetic waste of forum space would not have happened... or gone on so long.
Ludwig
Ludwig Bouwer, One Big Room Studios.
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Cakewalk with all the trimmings / Win 10Pro 64 / Intel i7-7700 / Asus Prime Z270k / 16GB DDR4 / RME HDSP9652 / RME UFX / Black Lion Audio ADA8000 / ART MPA & ART Pro Channel / Focusrite Voicemaster Pro / Aphex 107
Check out my work at www.onebigroom.co.za
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ProjectM
Max Output Level: -36 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3941
- Joined: 2004/02/10 09:32:12
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re:"We will have more information about SONAR X1c in late July"
2011/07/27 06:38:22
(permalink)
Well, this has been an interesting read...  Just want to chime in - not interfere with the good spirit here, or whatever it is:p I'll say; you can be as educated in music as you want but if what you make or play sounds like crap/noize/rubbish/disturbance and poor musicianship (not talking skills on an instrument) then it doesn't matter. If you're a complete noob, don't know what you're doing but manage to create something that sounds both nice and musical no matter the genre then the lack of music education should not undermine the quality of the music. And it doesn't matter what the piece of music is made of either. It's individual what sounds good and what doesn't, I never argue with anyone who has different taste in music than me. Does anyone remember Rebecka Black and how she made "the worst song in history" one of the greatest hits in 2011? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi00ykRg_5c As for fusion and high musicianship. Here's a Norwegian example doing great internationally - but in my opinion, everyone can make ugly noises on a sax and play fast without melody on guitar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqn2QMD3ZSE But for some reason, I like the album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlRAJErqK4A So to some examples of music from over here where the traditional band is closely knitted with the latest technology. Sorry about the shameless self promotion, I work with and/or play in these, but I do so because I really liked their use of new tech music in a traditional band where the high tech stuff is not an addition to the music but a significant part of it. http://www.myspace.com/serenitytrace http://www.myspace.com/blackcomedymetal As for Sonar – I like it because it has the tools to do whatever I want. One day I can compose a classical piece, the next some acid house stuff, the third day I record an acoustic guitar and some vocals, the fourth day I create some industrial black metal, the fifth day my father comes in and play blues on his clarinet and we add virtual instruments to make it sound like an entire band is playing and then he takes it home to charm my mother, on the sixth day I can bang out some mean hip hop beats using samples from CD, vinyl, a trumpet and have a rapper do the rhymes, on the seventh day I may play with something I’ve never used in Sonar before and have a bright new idea for something else, a sweet DnB pop song perhaps that will make me millions. I’m looking forward to X1c. I haven’t heard too much about it but I recall Brandon saying that it was way more than just a patch so I am sure they’ve taken what’s been said in these forums over the past many moons and done something about it. It really doesn’t matter how/why/where/when/with what/with whom and so forth when it comes to music. If it sounds good, then it probably is good. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Music is the only place where anarchy should be the law. Anyway, enjoy the different music out there and have fun BTW: +1 to what cryophonic said about folk music here earlier
(Sonar Platinum - Win10 x64) - iMac and 13" MacBook - Logic Pro X ++ - UA Apollo Twin DUO - NI Maschine MKII - NI Komplete Kontrol S61 - Novation Nocturne - KRK Rokit 6 SoundcloudNegative Vibe Records
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