Working with Buses

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Post
RobertB
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February 11, 08 11:13 PM
I'm starting a new thread in the event this proves useful
OK. Some of this will be redundant,as it has already been touched on here, but just to keep my own head straight, I am going to go all the way through. This is by no means comprehensive, but should hopefully give a basic outline for using buses.
Open a new project.
First off, there is nothing special about the Master bus. It is just like any other bus. However, in general, it should have the ONLY output directed to your sound card. For this exercise, we will make Subgroup 1 our Master bus. Click on the white Sbgrp1 label, and rename it Master.
We are going to apply some reverb to all tracks, so change the name of Sbgrp2 to Reverb. If your sound card has an additional pair of outputs (ie 4 outs,usualy 1/2,3/4) you can do a headphone mix. Mine doesn't, but we will throw a headphone mix in here anyway. rename Sbgrp3 to Phones. Your console should look like this.

Now let's move to the tracks. Import or record some sound into tracks 1-3. Now hit play. By default, all tracks should have the output set to your sound card, so it will look like the following. Note that there is no activity in the buses yet.

Now we want to send our primary outputs to the Master bus Click on the Output box at the bottom of your screen. Select Master. Repeat this for all three tracks.

Now hit play. We see a couple things. All of the signal is being routed through the Master bus. and we are getting some clipping, as shown by the red Clip indicators in the Master bus meter. To correct that, lower the track levels, and leave the Master set to 0.

Now we get to the fun stuff. Insert your reverb of choice in the FX bin of the Reverb bus, and set it to 100%wet. Click on the Post button on all three tracks, so it lights up and shows Pre. Then click on the Aux 1 button in the track, and change it to Reverb. We are now splitting the signal and sending a copy of our tracks to the Reverb bus. It is not affected by the track volume fader, because it is being split out before the volume fader comes into effect, hence Pre-Fader. Click the Enable button on each track. Change the Output of the reverb bus to Master.
Now you will see this

It's probably sstarting to sound pretty bad, if you have an aggressive reverb set, and you may be getting some clipping. But just for fun, lets listen to only the reverb. Slide all of your track faders to the bottom. Now hit play. What you see and hear is the signal being sent through the Reverb bus only.

Now bring your track faders back up. At this point, you can control the presence of the individual instruments, as well as the reverb from the virtual room, and it all goes to the Master bus.
Let's explore the headphone mix. Your singer may want the mix louder or softer, but you don't want to disturb the basic mix. This is where Aux 2 comes in. If you set this to Post-fader, your singer will hear the balance of the mix, withuot affecting anything else. In this screen shot, I have shut everything else down to show that a signal gets to the Phones bus, independently from the other buses.

I hope this all makes sense. Entire books could, and have been writen about this, and this is just a quick sketch.

post edited by RobertB - February 11, 08 11:53 PM
ohgrant
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RE: Working with Buses February 11, 08 11:48 PM
This is great work Bob, this answers many of my questions thanks for sharing this!!
RobertB
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RE: Working with Buses February 11, 08 11:53 PM
Good deal, Grant. It takes a bit to put these together, but if it helps somebody, it's worth it.
delta1010_guy
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RE: Working with Buses February 12, 08 0:13 PM
Excellent...I'm just learning gt 3.o now and this really helped,

thanks a heap
Keith
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses February 12, 08 7:20 AM
Bob, that's top banana!!

I appreciate you taking the time to put that together - when you see it laid out like that, it all makes perfect sense.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we need a FAQ Sticky at the top of this forum; the quality of this sort of help shouldn't need to be repeatedly bumped or have links posted to it.

Good on you Bob

Steve
hrtfxr
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RE: Working with Buses February 12, 08 8:25 AM
Very cool!
I am learning in spite of myself.
Cakewalk should pay you.
Steve's right. I'm filling up my favorites with all these pearls.


Thanks Bob
DRHollingsworth
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RE: Working with Buses February 12, 08 10:06 AM
Thanks Bob,

Very clear and well put together. Great Job!


But really.... You've been hanging out at Steve's too much. He's starting to rub off on you!
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses February 12, 08 3:20 PM
Hey there Bob

I just spent a few hours following through your tutorial and then applying it to my Breaking the Law track.

I just had to put the screenshots up - I decided to use the original Aux busses [it was originally recorded in GTP2 on my old PC] but followed your guidelines to set up and use the subgroups as well.

Because the new PC has loads more poke I went to creative city, even using the CPU hungry PSP Vintage Warmer in a subgroup as well as in the Master strip!

I found setting the mix up so much easier once I'd decided which busses to use [and to share] and found after riding the faders through 4 of 5 run throughs I'd got a balance I was happy to mix down.

I've added it alongside the original on Soundclick and to me, the mix is far better balanced and the parts more distinct.

Tracks:




Bussing:




Cheers again for the heads-up Bob.

Steve
post edited by SteveStrummerUK - February 14, 08 8:39 AM
RobertB
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RE: Working with Buses February 12, 08 9:02 PM
Glad that helped, Steve,
Looks like you are having fun with it.
Doc,
I can't really blame it on Steve. I've got a few of these floating around. You should see my Photobucket account. 80+ screen shots.
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses February 12, 08 9:18 PM

ORIGINAL: RobertB

Glad that helped, Steve,
Looks like you are having fun with it.
Doc,
I can't really blame it on Steve. I've got a few of these floating around. You should see my Photobucket account. 80+ screen shots.



Bob, not only was it fun, it actually made the mixing process far easier once I'd worked out where everything was going - like a breath of fresh air really! As soon as I'm happy with a 'standardized' heavy metal-type set-up I'll save a read only template and be able to open up anytime and only really have to think about the recording, just leaving a few tweaks to be done when mixing.

As for me bemoaning GT3 in favour of my tried and tested, yet dare I say, 'safe' GTP2, I think my newly acquired knowledge will now see my total conversion - I've even started dismantling the pan/volume envelopes on some of my older project's tracks as these seem to be the only things GT3 can't accommodate when importing GTP2 project files. As I said before, GT3 automatically assigns it's first three subgroups to GTP2's 2 Aux sends and the Master out module.

As for the screenshots Bob - only 80! Part-timer I'd say....

Steve
DRHollingsworth
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RE: Working with Buses February 12, 08 10:09 PM
Strummy, Now we need to get you started on SHS6XL. and then onto Sonar SE, then PE. That will see you through the progression from Acolyte to true master.....


Bob, Come to think of it. weren't you one of the first to put up a visual help for someone way abck when???
RobertB
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RE: Working with Buses February 13, 08 0:51 PM
Sounds good, Steve.
The guitars have a lot more dimension and presence. Maybe put a little more verb on your vocal track, but not as much as before. It sounds kind of 'straight off the board". Try not rolling off the highs quite as much, to give your voice a little more brightness. Not much. I like the sound and feel of this version much better.

Next stop...Albert Hall...
post edited by RobertB - February 13, 08 1:14 AM
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses February 13, 08 8:59 AM
Thanks for the kind words and for the advice Bob - I'll try what you say with the vocals.

I do have to clarify that that's not me singing though - 'tis my old mate and bassist SidStrummerUK on lung duty. I can assure you that if it was yours truly crooning your advice would have probably been "That'd work nice as an instrumental Steve"

He had a cold at the time and sang it through a £2 karaoke machine microphone! He recently found our old condenser mic that we used for vocals years back and with a nifty bit of soldering I've managed to get it working again so that vocal will soon be completely re-recorded.

Once that's done I reckon we'll [BTLaw = Me, Sid and Doc] be just about happy enough to make the tune's debut in the Songs forum!

BTW, I think I'll steer clear of Albert Hall - I'm not much of a Woody Allen fan.

Steve
DRHollingsworth
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RE: Working with Buses February 13, 08 10:15 AM
Well there is always Madison Square Garden.....
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses February 13, 08 12:09 AM

ORIGINAL: DRHollingsworth

Well there is always Madison Square Garden.....


Madison Square Garden!! It would be like Pete's IQ I'm afraid Doc - way too small! [sm=rolleyes.gif]
FlySig
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RE: Working with Buses February 13, 08 1:51 PM
RobertB, thanks for that tutorial! I'll give a go at remixing "Pants on Fire" and see if the backup vocals track can be improved with the reverb via a subgroup.
DRHollingsworth
Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
RE: Working with Buses February 14, 08 4:54 PM
DRHollingsworth
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RE: Working with Buses February 14, 08 4:55 PM
Sorry, I couldn't resist. This has been on my mind for the last three days. I feel better now that I got it out of my system. Sorry all .
hrtfxr
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RE: Working with Buses February 14, 08 8:35 PM
Same goofy humor as mine, soc. Yours is funny though.
RobertB
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RE: Working with Buses February 14, 08 8:44 PM
Doc,
Steve beat you to it. Check his song post. That was what inspired the Albert Hall reference. I think New York may be a bit of a run on a double-decker.
DRHollingsworth
Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
RE: Working with Buses February 15, 08 12:13 AM

ORIGINAL: hrtfxr

Same goofy humor as mine, soc. Yours is funny though.


I think it's what keeps this such a nice cozy place for us SHS and S7 users. (yes group hug )

ORIGINAL: RobertB

Doc,
Steve beat you to it. Check his song post. That was what inspired the Albert Hall reference. I think New York may be a bit of a run on a double-decker.


He may have beat me to it but mine was graphical!
post edited by DRHollingsworth - February 15, 08 12:15 AM
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses February 15, 08 4:54 PM
Doc; Bob

First off, I'm all for a group hug - nay, dare I suggest a forum hug. I bags Pete's neck.


Bob - as you can see from this genuine newspaper front page, them old London busses get everywhere:



Here is the uncontrovertable proof:
“BUS FOUND BURIED AT SOUTH POLE” Perhaps the ultimate Sunday Sport exclusive, this reported that the 109 from Croydon bus station had been hijacked by a green alien in 1961 and taken to the Antarctic (and of course the paper had a photo to prove it). Follow-up stories even detailed eyewitness accounts from passengers. “The whole journey is a complete blank,” said mature student John La Trobe, “but I do remember the penguins.”


Tickets please.....


DRHollingsworth
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RE: Working with Buses February 15, 08 5:11 PM
Next you'll be telling us that Fleet Street has incontrovertible evidence that Elvis was the culprit
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses February 15, 08 5:25 PM

ORIGINAL: DRHollingsworth

Next you'll be telling us that Fleet Street has incontrovertible evidence that Elvis was the culprit


Don't be ridiculous Doc, everyone knows he flew that bomber to the moon!


Now, I have to make a stand here guys - this forum is becoming notorious for going way off topic on all of the sensible threads.

For example. I started a thread before Christmas about setting up a time-dilating forum based on current latency technology but after a couple of days and 10 or 11 posts, people were chipping in, bold as brass and without any thought for the hallowed dignity of the forum, talking about recording music [can you believe it?], plug-ins, equalisation and something called GT3.

This disgraceful practice should, in my opinion, stop now so we can get back to what it's really all about - taking the p**s out of Pete.

Yours in anticipation of your cooperation

Stephen
DRHollingsworth
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RE: Working with Buses February 15, 08 5:39 PM
Hmmm. Sound as if we have a malcontent in our midsts. I think it's time for an inquisition. To be held in the OT: GT Forum Chat.
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses February 15, 08 7:12 PM

ORIGINAL: DRHollingsworth

Hmmm. Sound as if we have a malcontent in our midsts. I think it's time for an inquisition. To be held in the OT: GT Forum Chat.


But I want to stay here

Go on

Please

Pretty please

With sugar on
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses March 05, 08 6:56 PM
Buil voor Bob
Doc_Hollingsworth
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RE: Working with Buses March 05, 08 7:52 PM
Er ist die bump. Aber auf Holländer? Deutsch ist besser, Ich sagen
Wedge598
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RE: Working with Buses March 06, 08 3:09 PM
That was very informative and helpful Robert.

The one part I'm still not sure I understand is that the sound from the tracks is being sent to two places. Part of it goes to the master bus which I presume is a raw copy of the track, and part of it goes to the reverb bus which then gets sent to the master bus after the effect is added. So what you hear then is a mixture of the raw track and the effected track?

Why wouldn't you want to send the entire signal only to the reverb bus? Isn't it harder to adjust the volume levels if the sound is coming from two places?
RobertB
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RE: Working with Buses March 06, 08 8:39 PM
Good questions Wedge. These are some small questions with big answers. I have been pondering how to answer this over the past few hours, so I hope I don't get too long winded.
For the first part, yes, you are hearing a mixture of the raw source track and the effect track. The send essentially splits off a clone for the bus.
You could set the track output(s) to a bus, to apply a common effect, and that may work just fine.
Is it harder to adjust the volume levels with the sound coming from two different places? Yes, and no. Yes you do have more to keep track of, and this is one reason it is so important to have everything end up at the master bus(or bus A as you are seeing it. You can change the name if you like). However, by uncoupling the source track output from the effect, you can control them independently, which can make it easier to get the sound you really want.
I have a long history with painting and photography, so I tend to draw a lot of parallels to that. Your source tracks, with the instruments and vocals, are the colors on your palette. Reverb is light and shadow. It is this that gives the picture depth and dimension. If you apply reverb to you track outputs, it can be like flat lighting, where nothing really stands out. By allowing the tracks to come through dry, you can create the illusion of the instruments being up close and intimate, while the effect in the bus defines the space you are in. It gives you much more control, and you can get a more three dimensional effect to your recording. Light and shadow. This is why your average snapshot of the Grande Canyon never looks like the pictures in the magazines. And it's why so many home recording don't sound professional. Of course, there is much more to it, but this is a key element.
I use reverb as a typical example, but many effect are more effective when using a bus. Experiment, and compare what you hear to recordings that you hear on the radio, CDs, the Songs forum, etc. You will start to recognize what you are hearing people doing, and you can apply those techniques to your own songs.
Hope that helps. Good luck, and enjoy the journey.
Doc_Hollingsworth
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RE: Working with Buses March 12, 08 12:12 AM
Bump
Doc_Hollingsworth
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RE: Working with Buses March 17, 08 4:00 AM
Bump
omtayslick
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RE: Working with Buses March 22, 08 9:16 PM
Good info Robert. I registered as a new forum member just to tell you how much I appreciated it.
RobertB
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RE: Working with Buses March 22, 08 10:44 PM
Welcome aboard, Tom.
Glad that was of help. If you have any other questions, and I'm sure you will, Doc, Steve, and myself seem to be the unholy triumvirate here(oohhh, band name!!!).
RobertB
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RE: Working with Buses April 06, 08 0:25 PM
bump
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses April 06, 08 4:50 PM
Feel free to copy:



Or maybe:



Possibly:



Then we can par-tay............... at the top o' the forum ....

Doc_Hollingsworth
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RE: Working with Buses April 07, 08 10:14 AM
bump
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses April 08, 08 4:56 PM

ORIGINAL: Doc_Hollingsworth

bump


SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses April 14, 08 8:06 PM

ORIGINAL: SteveStrummerUK


ORIGINAL: Doc_Hollingsworth

bump




pistolpete
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RE: Working with Buses April 17, 08 8:52 PM

ORIGINAL: SteveStrummerUK

Feel free to copy:



Or maybe:



Possibly:



Then we can par-tay............... at the top o' the forum ....



RobertB
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RE: Working with Buses April 17, 08 9:14 PM
Pete,
Did you just bump my thread?
I think I'm going to shed a little tear.
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses April 21, 08 3:34 PM

ORIGINAL: RobertB

Pete,
Did you just bump my thread?
I think I'm going to shed a little tear.


Don't cry for me Argentina - bump
Doc_Hollingsworth
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RE: Working with Buses May 02, 08 12:56 AM
Bump
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses May 02, 08 2:51 PM

ORIGINAL: Doc_Hollingsworth

Bump


No shame at all - you pinched my turn
Doc_Hollingsworth
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RE: Working with Buses May 05, 08 10:04 AM
Bump

Did not!
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses May 05, 08 11:16 AM

ORIGINAL: Doc_Hollingsworth

Bump

Did not!



Shameless!!





Doc_Hollingsworth
Max Output Level: -52.5 dBFS
RE: Working with Buses May 05, 08 11:25 AM
No shame at all!
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses May 05, 08 11:32 AM
Is it my turn to bump this or not then?
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses May 16, 08 8:36 PM

ORIGINAL: SteveStrummerUK

Is it my turn to bump this or not then?


Yes.
Doc_Hollingsworth
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RE: Working with Buses May 20, 08 9:36 AM
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses May 20, 08 7:23 PM

A Platinum bump is in order I believe!!
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses May 22, 08 4:58 PM

Up, up and away...
cjlinus
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RE: Working with Buses May 22, 08 10:21 PM
Robert,

Good tutorial. I would like to add to it though. One of the best uses for bus mixing is as a sub mix for say, backing vocals, drums or orchestra. I know that most of us don't record a drum set but I'm sure some do and maybe multiple tracks of backing vocals as well. If you set the output of all your drum/Bvox tracks to a bus and then route the bus output to the main out, you will be able to change the level of the entire group of tracks with one fader and retain your mix instead of having to move all of the seperate faders at the same time. If you have say, five tracks of you singing backup for yourself all mixed well with each other then you can now adjust your backup vocals in relation to the overall song mix without the danger of changing the sub mix of bvox.

Also, I believe that GT3 is set up so that your aux channels are effectively sub busses but I may be wrong on that count. Regardless, your advice is sound and, as has been noted earlier in the thread, you can get a clearer definition between tracks using your technique. As a side note, I don't claim to be a pro by any streach so judge my advice by my products, you may choose to ignore my ramblings after a few bars. Cheers.
RobertB
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RE: Working with Buses May 23, 08 0:32 PM
Absolutely, cj.
I just scratched the surface, but the grouping you mention is an excellent use for buses.
The AUX is a send that can be selected pre or post fader, which splits the signal into essentially a clone. You can set several track outputs to a bus, which would be best for what you are describing. You can even send buses through other buses. There's a lot of flexibility.
They are a great tool, and definitely worth getting familiar with.
Doc_Hollingsworth
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RE: Working with Buses May 27, 08 2:23 PM
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses May 27, 08 5:39 PM

ORIGINAL: Doc_Hollingsworth




I'm back - do you owe me for this image?
Doc_Hollingsworth
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RE: Working with Buses May 27, 08 6:23 PM
Take one beer of your tab. So you're now at 3 kegs.
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses May 27, 08 6:33 PM

ORIGINAL: Doc_Hollingsworth

Take one beer of your tab. So you're now at 3 kegs.



Doc_Hollingsworth
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RE: Working with Buses May 30, 08 10:47 AM
Bumpity, bumpity, bump
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Working with Buses June 03, 08 4:27 PM

Bump for Bob
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