[Consolidated] Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1

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RajahP
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/08 18:43:38 (permalink)

Well, this is the most viewed/posting thread since X1 release... A word from Cakewalk on this "Narrow strips" issue would help.
BTW, the 'old' pan control is perfection.. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
post edited by RajahP - 2010/12/08 18:47:07
#61
Mooch4056
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/08 18:51:29 (permalink)
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#62
ba_midi
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/08 18:58:21 (permalink)
Mooch4056


all I know is my download is over so I am not naked anymore 


Coulda fooled me

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#63
bapu
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/08 18:59:12 (permalink)
Mooch4056


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Ok, pix posting is okay now.


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#64
Rain
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/08 19:04:40 (permalink)
Danny Danzi

Another thing I felt was a bit odd was this statement I keep seeing mentioning "the object is to make music" which sort of seems like an attempt to make you forget about the lack of color changes. 
In my years of customer service, it was a basic principle to try and always use positive sentences, even when the answer was really no. Like "I can certainly see why it's important to you and that's why I'd like to bring this or that alternative to your attention."

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#65
ba_midi
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/08 19:09:19 (permalink)
Rain


Danny Danzi

Another thing I felt was a bit odd was this statement I keep seeing mentioning "the object is to make music" which sort of seems like an attempt to make you forget about the lack of color changes. 
In my years of customer service, it was a basic principle to try and always use positive sentences, even when the answer was really no. Like "I can certainly see why it's important to you and that's why I'd like to bring this or that alternative to your attention."

Most people have a bad feeling about customer service these days, generally ;)

But I must admit I felt uneasy with that "make music and forget about ..." statement as well.




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#66
John T
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/08 19:19:45 (permalink)
I don't. I generally don't pitch on on the whole "They should be spending their time on X, not Y" threads, but I won't deny being glad that a load of resource hasn't been hogged in making sure you can set the status bar to vermilion, or whatever.

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#67
VariousArtist
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/08 19:29:24 (permalink)
Hmmm....   

For some people being outdoors in bright sunshine is not an issue.  So in that case, why bother with having sunglasses for anyone?  Sure, for some people the sunglasses might be a part of their dress sense, but if some people don't need them then it follows that nobody needs them?  And that if they do need sunglasses it's purely because they're more interested in being cool?  Well, for some people it's important because they perceive the sun to be too bright for viewing in a "normal" manner.  

Similarly, it's important to me to set certain colors because I find it helps me see things more "normally".  I don't care about a cool or pretty screen.  I do care about one that suits my vision.  I never used to think too much about themes and so on, until I tried out a few of those that were first offered in the earlier versions and I was surprised at how much some themes really helped me.

I think it's fine if some don't care about colors and themes.  But some of us do....

#68
Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/08 19:31:49 (permalink)
FWIW: SONAR has more customization regarding layout as any and still has more customization regarding color as most.

"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG

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#69
John T
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/08 19:33:15 (permalink)
VariousArtist


Hmmm....   

For some people being outdoors in bright sunshine is not an issue.  So in that case, why bother with having sunglasses for anyone?

Yeah, I know what you mean. What I mean though is, it's just the pragmatism of any development project. Minority use features are always going to get less of a focus. That kind of sucks if one of those features is important to you, I know, but it is what it is.
post edited by John T - 2010/12/08 19:35:32

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#70
John T
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/08 19:34:19 (permalink)
Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

FWIW: SONAR has more customization regarding layout as any and still has more customization regarding color as most.


This is certainly true. Most of the software I use every day doesn't really let you customise at all.

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#71
lorneyb2
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/08 19:48:31 (permalink)
fribble


Hi folks,
I've just seen the new console view for the first time and I'm very disappointed.

"Narrow strips" are completely unusable now. There is no EQ plot anymore, plug-in names are truncated to just one or two letters. Where are the phase buttons or stereo interleave buttons? What happened to automation read/write enable? Not to mention input and output devices (shown at the bottom). You can see only ONE letter of the track names - A, L, K ?!?! What are these?

This upgrade was supposed to improve workflow - now I have to guess which channels/plug-ins I'm working on...

I'm usually working on projects with a high track count and I need to see as many tracks as possible - wide strips are not an option for me. I hope this is getting fixed in an update.

One more note: there seems to be a display bug, as some dB values are overlapping - you can see it near the bottom of channels 14 and 20.



Just for comparison: here are the same tracks as shown in Sonar 8.5. It takes even less space on the screen and there's a lot more information readable. See what I mean?



You may have missed the menu at the top of console view where you can still show what ever you want (modules) eq, phase, interleave, MSR, sends etc.   It would have migrated your settings from your last project so where you must not have been using them.

A feature that I really like that compensates somewhat for the small track name space is that if you click on a track in console view it then pops up automatically in track view with the full prochannel etc available to you.   When you click on a track in track view that track is higlighted in console view so still easy to find. 

I also read somewhere in the info that if you used the inline Sonitus eq you can migrate those settings over to the new EQ but haven't tried that yet.

So it looks like somethings may have created a problem for some(where using narrow strips) but lots of improvements in other areas that in my mind more than compensate.
#72
ba_midi
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/08 22:49:57 (permalink)
John T


Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

FWIW: SONAR has more customization regarding layout as any and still has more customization regarding color as most.


This is certainly true. Most of the software I use every day doesn't really let you customise at all.

I'm not sure I follow Brandon's and your thinking on this.   SO you're saying because others don't do something when Sonar did, it's ok for Sonar to do LESS of something because it's still more than what others do?
 
Is that the point?
 
 

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#73
ba_midi
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/08 22:51:39 (permalink)
I also read somewhere in the info that if you used the inline Sonitus eq you can migrate those settings over to the new EQ but haven't tried that yet.

 
Does anyone know how to do that yet?  I'd like to find out.
 

Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
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#74
Scott Lee
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/08 23:07:49 (permalink)
Yes Billy.

What you do is this.. If your project or normal.tpl has a Sonitus active or some plots, to get the new NEW working you HOLD CTRL and click on the power button of the EQ in the pro channel. This activatives it.

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#75
ba_midi
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/08 23:20:54 (permalink)
Scott Lee


Yes Billy.

What you do is this.. If your project or normal.tpl has a Sonitus active or some plots, to get the new NEW working you HOLD CTRL and click on the power button of the EQ in the pro channel. This activatives it.

I'll try that shortly, thanks Scott.   I hope you're saying it will 'convert' your inline EQ settings into the new EQ module.
 

Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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#76
creynolds
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/09 10:47:49 (permalink)
To bring this thread back on track.
This cannot be considered an even half reasonable implementation of narrow track view. It has made this very, very, essential feature virtually unuseable. Given that so many users are constantly using narrow console view to complete high track count projects, this must be fixed as a high priority.
  1. You cannot navigate to a specific channel using one letter.
  2. You cannot identify sends with a single letter.
  3. You cannot identify inputs and destination groups with a single letter
  4. You must be able to enable and disable automation.
  5. We had a visual guide to eq shape. We'd like it back please
I am so pleased with X1 in so many other aspects, it makes this serious retrograde so difficult to appreciate. For me it renders the upgrade almost unuseable. I simply can't imagine how I could mix on it. Which is a real shame.

One final Point:

When you open the ProChannel in narrow strip view it grows to full width and stays full width after you close the ProChannel. It should have the common decency to put the strip back to narrow once it is closed.

A real shame. It has seriously marred what is a very exciting release. Please fix it soon!

Rain Recording Nimbus. Sandybridge 2600k, 16gb Ram. Quadro FX 580, Roland Quad Capture. Avid Artist Mix and Transport. Loads of other cool stuff.
#77
fribble
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/09 10:50:51 (permalink)
creynolds

I am so pleased with X1 in so many other aspects, it makes this serious retrograde so difficult to appreciate. For me it renders the upgrade almost unuseable. I simply can't imagine how I could mix on it. Which is a real shame.

+1

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#78
Jose7822
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/09 10:51:33 (permalink)
^ Yes, please Cakewalk. 

The old Console View was 1,000x better than the new one.

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#79
LLyons
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/09 11:41:39 (permalink)
First - I am a simple user,  usually 20 tracks or less, and I am more of a writer/performer than an engineer. I can see that not having the plot on the thin stips could be a problem for many, however - when I started working on a remix of a project, the pluses in workflow in my opinion well overshadowed not getting the software just because some features went missing.  

I dialled in a few tracks that were problematic with the new pro channel strip - fumbling at first, but I got the hang of it pretty quickly.  I then created a quick project - one take, guitar, bass, synth, voice and session drummer 3 - thats where the new tool set just shined.  

The new work surface design being able to see all of my midi drum patterns, synths and all of the effects, all at once really helps, and to place them where I want them - well thats pretty darn sweet in the creation process - and for me, creating music is what differentiates Sonar from Pro Tools or other DAW in my humble opinion. What I would say - for me, the plusses so far, outweigh the minuses listed at the start of this thread. They are well intended certainly - but I am really liking the entire package..

Best Regards all..



#80
bapu
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/09 11:44:58 (permalink)
Given that I have a console (of sorts, 8 faders Tascam FW-1884) the console view is of little importance to me.

I do 99.99% of my work in the track view.

I for one like the new default color scheme.

No complaints so far.

#81
creynolds
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/09 12:00:06 (permalink)
Good to know that you two guys are having a blast and don't use the feature set that we others are mourning so hard. Whilst I am elated that you guys are so happy with your working practices and gear, I fail to see how the comments you are making really help us other commited Sonar users, who are really fouled up by this loss of vital and I mean vital functionality.

This thread is not doing Sonar X1 down. Quite the contrary. We are trying to restore features that seem to have been skipped over as maybe trivial. If you don't run high track counts or use lots of groups this thread is not going to push your buttons. If you do, you've got to get behind these pleas to fix it and I mean pronto.

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#82
Jose7822
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/09 12:04:46 (permalink)
I was just gonna ignore those comments, but well said Creynolds.

These are VITAL functionalities for some of us and we need them back.  It's not like we never had them!


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#83
bapu
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/09 12:04:51 (permalink)
If you don't run high track counts



FWIW - the last song for The CHB had 50+ tracks. That may not be high for you but for me that was HUGH.


#84
Jose7822
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/09 12:06:41 (permalink)
bapu



If you don't run high track counts



FWIW - the last song for The CHB had 50+ tracks. That may not be high for you but for me that was HUGH.

 
That's a normal project for some of us. :-)

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#85
ba_midi
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/09 12:07:06 (permalink)
bapu



If you don't run high track counts



FWIW - the last song for The CHB had 50+ tracks. That may not be high for you but for me that was HUGH.

Hugh Who?
 

 
Sorry - I couldn't resist Bapu :)
 
 

Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
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#86
Rain
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/09 12:07:29 (permalink)
bapu

I do 99.99% of my work in the track view.

Well, not anymore, you're not. Now that everything has changed, 99,99% of your work you'll be doing in the mixer view. So it's now the most important thing to you. Let's see how you like that console right now sir Bapu... ;) 

TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
#87
Bub
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/09 12:10:12 (permalink)
creynolds


Good to know that you two guys are having a blast and don't use the feature set that we others are mourning so hard. Whilst I am elated that you guys are so happy with your working practices and gear, I fail to see how the comments you are making really help us other commited Sonar users, who are really fouled up by this loss of vital and I mean vital functionality.

You have to look at the big picture ... maybe they don't want the console view to be any good so you buy some hardware?

Ehh? Ahhh? See how that works?

"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
#88
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/09 12:12:43 (permalink)
ba_midi


bapu



If you don't run high track counts



FWIW - the last song for The CHB had 50+ tracks. That may not be high for you but for me that was HUGH.

Hugh Who?
 

 
Sorry - I couldn't resist Bapu :)
 
 

Touche Billy.
#89
bapu
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/09 12:13:56 (permalink)
Ok, I'll accept that my post was not relevant. 
<slinks away to other threads>

#90
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