I assume most of you here know about the new free DAW - Reaper. Apparently, many reaper fans love this proggie to death!

To me, reaper is the fastest updated software i've ever seen. There are sometimes 3 updates in a single day! Its insane!

So far, i'm impressed with reaper, but now a question springs to mind - is reaper a threat to sonar? I mean, what does it NOT do that sonar can? (Apart from advanced midi functionality that justin is working on for reaper...)

For those who dont know reaper yet, www.reaper.fm

"For a person to be successful, there has to be in him, a tingling sense of sorrow in the deepest part of his heart and move him emotionally...."

you mean there's something free for the iKleptos to steal? that's awesome.
this looks like it barely has the functionality of home studio .. i don't see this
as much of a threat to Sonar.

Here's a little writeup on the lead developer. You may have heard of him. He developed a little program that you may have heard of

...WinAmp.



http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5938320/the_worlds_most_dangerous_geek/

-mr moon

Intel Core 2 QUAD Q6600
4 GB 800MHz DDR2
RME FireFace 800
Windows 64 Pro

"...Think outside the box as you mix within!" -mrmoon

...no. I don't think it's going to be a threat. If nothing else, there's no way they can afford to update and add new features AND support it professionally at no cost.

However, depending on how it evolves, it might push/inspire Cakewalk to be quicker and/or more innovative with Sonar design. That is always a good thing. I think even Cake would agree.

Mike
MichaelDanchi.com
IPM Productions
Sonar 8PE, Project 5 v2.5, Rapture, Dimension Pro, Z3TA+, RME FF400 + Presonus DigiMax FS

Agreed, it is great to see something for free and their efforts are only positive to the industry.

It is not for sale because it is not even close the level that anyone would pay money for it. Hopefully one day it will get there.

AXE

this looks like it barely has the functionality of home studio .. i don't see this

Post FX recording.

is reaper a threat to sonar?

It's a threat to all audio applications. Just give it some time.

this looks like it barely has the functionality of home studio .. i don't see this

More flexible routing than SONAR w/true sidechaining abilities.

this looks like it barely has the functionality of home studio .. i don't see this

Support for changing recording sources on the fly

this looks like it barely has the functionality of home studio .. i don't see this

Support for 64-bit double precision plug-ins


Reaper looks darn fine.

have a good one
3Eo

Are we really, "all Gods creatures?" Cause some of us are downright ugly.

3 updates per day? Sounds like a nightmare of problems.

ORIGINAL: Infinite5ths

...no. I don't think it's going to be a threat. If nothing else, there's no way they can afford to update and add new features AND support it professionally at no cost.

However, depending on how it evolves, it might push/inspire Cakewalk to be quicker and/or more innovative with Sonar design. That is always a good thing. I think even Cake would agree.

Yo dude, the guy was worth more than a hundred million dollars a couple years back ...all he does is develop software, hang out, and do whatever else he feels like. He can afford to update it however long he wants to, he's not crippled by economics or financial concerns like the other companies, including our beloved Cakewalk, are. If anyone is going to rewrite the books, this is the guy to do it!

...Not to mention the even less strict licensing for the full version of the product: Nag-free, cripple-free, fully-functional shareware ...you pay for it *only* if it makes you feel like paying for it.

IMHO, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this product.

-mr moon

Intel Core 2 QUAD Q6600
4 GB 800MHz DDR2
RME FireFace 800
Windows 64 Pro

"...Think outside the box as you mix within!" -mrmoon

Well it's got quite a way to go before it can compare to Sonar HS 4 in all areas across the board. SHS4 is quite powerful and actually not missing much from Sonar 4 plus it has a few things form Sonar 5. That being said there are some things about Reaper that work better than Sonar. It may be a while but I do think Reaper will be a major contender in the DAW arena. Oh yea... and it'll fit on a floppy disk.

Bill

Yes....but when he has 1,000,000+ users (as Cakewalk does), and an application as big and complex, is he gonna be inclined (or even able) to support it like Cakewalk does? ...not without a company. And companies take money to pay employees. Maybe he won't have to charge for it, or maybe it will be cheap. Perhaps he'll go the Juno/AIM route and have advertisements buried in the GUI somewhere.

The article you posted proves one thing: He doesn't like to sit on one project/idea for too long before he gets bored. Folks who work with DAW software seriously need a stable and long-term development plan without dramatic changes every 3 months. I can't see this guy doing that -- not if the RollingStone article is any indication... He basically said this himself in the article. He likes to be on the cutting edge. That is GREAT. But he's not going to consistently compete head-to-head with an established DAW developer. What will be sad is if he runs people out of business, then fails to develop a product that continues to meet peoples' needs long-term. He doesn't seem to want to do that, so I'm betting this will be good for everybody. But you never know...


One more thought: His business model seems to be built around a short-term cult following -- fueled by his cutting-edge development of low-cost/no-cost software. That will always work -- for short periods of time. I've yet to see it really last for a long time. Usually the product starts GREAT and cheap/free and gets worse and/or more expensive over time. Examples: Juno, AIM, Napster, ZoneAlarm, etc. The exception to this rule seems to be Mozilla/FireFox/Thunderbird. But I'm pretty sure they get funding from other sources. In any event, one only has to look at the slow-going but trustworthy development of ProTools to see that there is a userbase for that kind of product -- which is developed by a big, stable (at least by outward appearances) company.

Mike
MichaelDanchi.com
IPM Productions
Sonar 8PE, Project 5 v2.5, Rapture, Dimension Pro, Z3TA+, RME FF400 + Presonus DigiMax FS

ORIGINAL: sambasevam
I assume most of you here know about the new free DAW - Reaper. Apparently, many reaper fans love this proggie to death!

But if its free that means you can't steal it. Bummer.

It's only free while it's in beta according to their site. I was going to give the beta a go, but I read something somewhere that hinted at the betas expiring, so I didn't bother.

Have any Reaper users bumped their computer's date up a year or two to see if it expires? I wish I could remember where I read it!

ORIGINAL: Infinite5ths

Yes....but when he has 1,000,000+ users (as Cakewalk does), and an application as big and complex, is he gonna be inclined (or even able) to support it like Cakewalk does? ...not without a company. And companies take money to pay employees. Maybe he won't have to charge for it, or maybe it will be cheap. Perhaps he'll go the Juno/AIM route and have advertisements buried in the GUI somewhere.

The article you posted proves one thing: He doesn't like to sit on one project/idea for too long before he gets bored. Folks who work with DAW software seriously need a stable and long-term development plan without dramatic changes every 3 months. I can't see this guy doing that -- not if the RollingStone article is any indication...

I think one of the reasons he's made so many changes to the program in such a short time is that he listens to the folks who make software requests and/or bug reports and tackles the problems head on rather than ignoring them. I speak (not literally, but figuratively) from personal experience on this one.

Anywho, as someone already pointed out, the program fits on a frickin' floppy disk. The latest Reaper download was 1.06 MB for the full program. The FULL program. Frickin' blows my mind....

Personally, I don't use Reaper as my full-time software ...yet. But who knows what the future may hold.



-mr moon

Intel Core 2 QUAD Q6600
4 GB 800MHz DDR2
RME FireFace 800
Windows 64 Pro

"...Think outside the box as you mix within!" -mrmoon

Yup...but how can he personally field 1,000+ calls per day? ...can't happen. Eventually it will get too big to be a one-man job. That's where the bigger and more long-term business models come into play. I don't think that is his area of interest. The RS article indicates that he works AGAINST that kind of model. You've got to have both types of developers.

Mike
MichaelDanchi.com
IPM Productions
Sonar 8PE, Project 5 v2.5, Rapture, Dimension Pro, Z3TA+, RME FF400 + Presonus DigiMax FS

ORIGINAL: OldGeezer

It's only free while it's in beta according to their site. I was going to give the beta a go, but I read something somewhere that hinted at the betas expiring, so I didn't bother.

Nope!! Wrong!!

Here's a quote from the Reaper homepage:
"REAPER versions 0.4-0.99 are freeware, but starting with version 1.0 the license will change to very reasonably priced (with amateur and professional rates/support) uncrippled nag-free shareware, supporting unexpiring full functionality in unregistered form."

Found here: http://www.cockos.com/reaper/

I also thought they were going to cripple it, but Justin assured me that they will not be doing so in any way.

-mr moon

Intel Core 2 QUAD Q6600
4 GB 800MHz DDR2
RME FireFace 800
Windows 64 Pro

"...Think outside the box as you mix within!" -mrmoon

ORIGINAL: Infinite5ths

Yup...but how can he personally field 1,000+ calls per day? ...can't happen. Eventually it will get too big to be a one-man job. That's where the bigger and more long-term business models come into play. I don't think that is his area of interest. The RS article indicates that he works AGAINST that kind of model. You've got to have both types of developers.

He has other folks helping him out already, so it's already not a one-man job. I think it's just frickin' awesome that he's doing something like this, and I would not count him out. It will be very interesting to see what becomes of this little project of his, methinks!

-mr moon

Intel Core 2 QUAD Q6600
4 GB 800MHz DDR2
RME FireFace 800
Windows 64 Pro

"...Think outside the box as you mix within!" -mrmoon

Mr Moon! That's what I read! lol

The statement the V1 would be reasonably priced, uncrippled and unexpiring led me to deduce that the betas do expire.

Maybe I'm reading too much between the lines?

Edit: Never mind....I missed the "shareware" part. But would the average amateur pay the "amateur rates" when there's an uncrippled shareware version?

We'll see... Having read the article about him, I hope that I never have to use any of his software as my sole professional tool for ANYTHING. ...but that is just my opinion.

Mike
MichaelDanchi.com
IPM Productions
Sonar 8PE, Project 5 v2.5, Rapture, Dimension Pro, Z3TA+, RME FF400 + Presonus DigiMax FS

ORIGINAL: OldGeezer

Mr Moon! That's what I read! lol

The statement the V1 would be reasonably priced, uncrippled and unexpiring led me to deduce that the betas do expire.

Maybe I'm reading too much between the lines?

I brought up the same issue, as I also thought the same way, and was assured that they will not expire. I just hope the project keeps going with the same momentum that it has had up until this point.

-mr moon

Intel Core 2 QUAD Q6600
4 GB 800MHz DDR2
RME FireFace 800
Windows 64 Pro

"...Think outside the box as you mix within!" -mrmoon

Well you've convinced me. I'm gonna give it a try. If I can actually plug Kontakt 2 into this thing as a VST and send program-changes, I'm gonna giggle like a schoolgirl.

ORIGINAL: Infinite5ths

We'll see... <snip> ...but that is just my opinion.

Yup, I guess so...

-mr moon

Intel Core 2 QUAD Q6600
4 GB 800MHz DDR2
RME FireFace 800
Windows 64 Pro

"...Think outside the box as you mix within!" -mrmoon

I'm going to give it a try. I LOVE my Sonar, but I've always used other stuff, too.

Some days are Les Paul days; some days are Rickenbacker days... y'know?

ORIGINAL: Infinite5ths

We'll see... Having read the article about him, I hope that I never have to use any of his software as my sole professional tool for ANYTHING. ...but that is just my opinion.

Why?! After reading the article, the guy strikes me as being The Anti-Gates. I don't care what he does...he's ok in my books.

hehe.

very interesting the thoughts presented here.

I signed up just to respond.

Yes. It is a threat to a certain demographic of Sonar, those who wish to do audio quickly and efficiently. having used Sonar, I say this isnt the case with it. (just my opinion, no need to flame)

Yes, it has several updates. 35 in the past month or so.

why?

because the dev listens to the users. most of those updates contain feature requests. not just bug fixes.

The midi features are ever-expanding, and post 1.0 expect to see alot of improvement. I think many here are likely ignorant of the full feature set this program provides. Perhaps you would like to stay this way, lest destroy your happy little worlds ;)

i suggest if you want more information,

visit this thread

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=138133&highlight=

or visit the REAPER forum

http://www.cockos.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=19

ORIGINAL: OldGeezer

Well you've convinced me. I'm gonna give it a try. If I can actually plug Kontakt 2 into this thing as a VST and send program-changes, I'm gonna giggle like a schoolgirl.

I would give it a go and see what happens. I am not sure about the midi implementation of this yet. But im sure its on its way. If you are really interested, you can always post up at the forums i mentioned above.

ORIGINAL: mr. moon

ORIGINAL: OldGeezer

Mr Moon! That's what I read! lol

The statement the V1 would be reasonably priced, uncrippled and unexpiring led me to deduce that the betas do expire.

Maybe I'm reading too much between the lines?

I brought up the same issue, as I also thought the same way, and was assured that they will not expire. I just hope the project keeps going with the same momentum that it has had up until this point.

-mr moon

it willl DEFINETLY not expire.

ORIGINAL: .

3 updates per day? Sounds like a nightmare of problems.

i dont recall ever having 3 updates in a day, but the frequency of updates actually shows the developer is really working hard on it, and listening to the userbase.

ORIGINAL: three_eyed_otter

this looks like it barely has the functionality of home studio .. i don't see this

Post FX recording.

is reaper a threat to sonar?

It's a threat to all audio applications. Just give it some time.

this looks like it barely has the functionality of home studio .. i don't see this

More flexible routing than SONAR w/true sidechaining abilities.

this looks like it barely has the functionality of home studio .. i don't see this

Support for changing recording sources on the fly

this looks like it barely has the functionality of home studio .. i don't see this

Support for 64-bit double precision plug-ins


Reaper looks darn fine.

have a good one
3Eo

indeed.

those who think that this FREE app doesnt have the functions of Home studio should probably take another look, also considering there are a few features that are being held off for the 1.0 release

(which will be uncrippled shareware)

ORIGINAL: axe

\

It is not for sale because it is not even close the level that anyone would pay money for it. Hopefully one day it will get there.

AXE

no offense, but this is a very ignorant statement.

i suggest you look into the feature set, use it a bit, and then come back and back up that type of argument.

aHa! jason! I was looking for you dude!

You registered just to enter this topic!? Nice!!!


Hear hear. Jason's one of "them".

"For a person to be successful, there has to be in him, a tingling sense of sorrow in the deepest part of his heart and move him emotionally...."