to record dry or not to record dry

Page: < 123 Showing page 3 of 3
Author
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 31918
  • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
  • Status: offline
Re:to record dry or not to record dry 2010/07/15 07:02:14 (permalink)
" keep the initial signal as near to real as you can (whether 'real' means sans effects or dry to you is your choice.)  but work on getting 'that' performance that you need and don't be satisfied with less (there's usually no point in even listening back if you 'think' you may have fluffed it because recording is unforgiving. In my experience 99% of the time even if you vaguely 'think' you fluffed it YOU DID!  Just retake.).  You may be able to make something mediocre acceptable after the event but if you end up capturing real magic you'll be hard pushed to mess it up after the event.  And whatever happens you'll always be in possession of that pure unadulterated take."

That seems like a good way to think about it.


#61
Jonbouy
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 22562
  • Joined: 2008/04/14 13:47:39
  • Location: England's Sunshine South Coast
  • Status: offline
Re:to record dry or not to record dry 2010/07/15 07:05:09 (permalink)
Apart from the fact I meant 'sans effects or wet'.  I knew I fluffed it somehow at the time, you see?

"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
#62
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 31918
  • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
  • Status: offline
Re:to record dry or not to record dry 2010/07/15 07:17:54 (permalink)
So "sans" doesn't equal Smoking Analog NuggetS anymore?

This digital stuff is hard to keep up with.


#63
droddey
Max Output Level: -24 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5147
  • Joined: 2007/02/09 03:44:49
  • Location: Mountain View, CA
  • Status: offline
Re:to record dry or not to record dry 2010/07/15 13:24:36 (permalink)
I certainly don't claim she can't play the piano. She's actually probably one of the most actually talented folks. But, I don't think that her music is created by putting a bunch of talented folks in a room and tracking them live. Same with the Katy Perry types or the other type of music that is really dominant with the kids, which are the various hip/hop variants that are out there now. And of course Brittany Spears and Miley Cyrus also sell massively, and I don't think that they anywhere near that level of competency.

You hear pro folks complaining about it all the time. That 20 takes of every track is done and laboriously comp'd out. That there are 50 tracks of background vocals, all heavily processed. Drum replacement, auto-tune, and time correction seems to be a standard thing in most pop production, etc...

It's because the current style is about perfection, not about naturalism. So everything is completely tweaked out after recording. And, if you are talking about saving money, are you going to keep all those musicians around for days, or just have them track 20 variations in an hour then send them on their way and go back and shuffle it into something after the fact? Why do another vocal take when you can just auto-tune, etc...

Alan Parsons, on his new Art&Science series, points out that these days it's more likely that instead of the guitarist showing up at the studio with his equipment, that the producer shows up at the guitarist's home studio with the session on a disc to do overdubs.
post edited by droddey - 2010/07/15 13:26:49

Dean Roddey
Chairman/CTO, Charmed Quark Systems
www.charmedquark.com
#64
Jonbouy
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 22562
  • Joined: 2008/04/14 13:47:39
  • Location: England's Sunshine South Coast
  • Status: offline
Re:to record dry or not to record dry 2010/07/15 15:43:18 (permalink)

And, if you are talking about saving money, are you going to keep all those musicians around for days, or just have them track 20 variations in an hour then send them on their way and go back and shuffle it into something after the fact?


It's almost like that but not quite.  I've been called in many a time to lay down tracks for a band when it looks like the bands actual player is looking likely to take a week to track what I'd do in a morning, and of course I'd be playing the actual tunes not just likely parts of them in order to cut and paste.  Also on most of the material by most of those you mention there are more commonly session players on there buried within the production than not.  And for the Alan Parsons example, sure many players work from home now but they still need to be able to do the required job in order to get that work.

Being as I'm in a place now where I have to fake it I can tell you it was a darned sight quicker and easier to sit down and play it rather than fake it even with all the trickery available at my disposal.  Not only that the result of playing it still almost always yields a better end product, even when the result is used as a mere guide for drum replacement.  The fact that I'm engaging in this conversation here rather than still working surely bears that out.

Sure the 'Star' will likely mostly derive a final cut from many takes in order to end up with the highly polished product, nothing new there, but you'll find many of these people can cut it live too, even if it takes several months of drilling them to get them to that stage.

But I still maintain the 'better' the performance that goes into the production machine the more likely it is to yield the required result.  And sometimes it's just the simple equation of the personnel involved that makes the result amount to more than the individual parts.

Talent and skill will always fetch a premium, even if that talent is being able to operate the equipment to the best effect.

The working axiom still remains, garbage in, garbage out.

post edited by Jonbouy - 2010/07/15 16:02:18

"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
#65
droddey
Max Output Level: -24 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5147
  • Joined: 2007/02/09 03:44:49
  • Location: Mountain View, CA
  • Status: offline
Re:to record dry or not to record dry 2010/07/15 17:59:20 (permalink)
Jonbouy

But I still maintain the 'better' the performance that goes into the production machine the more likely it is to yield the required result.  And sometimes it's just the simple equation of the personnel involved that makes the result amount to more than the individual parts.

Talent and skill will always fetch a premium, even if that talent is being able to operate the equipment to the best effect.

The working axiom still remains, garbage in, garbage out.
Sure, I'd agree 100%, as would all of the engineers and mixers, but if you hear what they talk about all the time in their online discussions, that's all too often not what they are getting. And, even if the players are good, they don't have the inhuman level of perfection that seems to have become the norm on pop music now, and it'll still be highly tweaked most of the time it seems. Some of that maybe is related to the fact that piracy has created an ever shrinking pie and fewer and fewer engineers at the top are getting more and more of the high quality work, and everyone else is dealing more and more with lesser bands and wannabes and such. And it does seem that a handful of mixers seem to do bulk of the major label songs these days, though I'm sure it's not quite as bad it seems.
 
But if you listen to a lot of what's popular now, almost all of it is clearly tweaked out the butt, with all kinds of artificial corrections and manipulations. And that's on folks who clearly have the bucks to hire the best studio players and engineers out there. It's just the style now seemingly.
 

Dean Roddey
Chairman/CTO, Charmed Quark Systems
www.charmedquark.com
#66
Page: < 123 Showing page 3 of 3
Jump to:
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1