ORIGINAL: yep
These things have way of going out of production or coming back in not-as-good reincarnations...

ORIGINAL: Jamz0r
I was told by a rep that they will not have more until May at the earliest.
The Feb 15th date is a pipedream I'm afraid.

It's these two ideas together that concerns me... by the time they do show up, will they even be the same mic, or just a bad knock-down?

(That is, a bad knock-down of a still magically-good knock-down of something pricey-pro?)

ORIGINAL: dstrenz
I'm at work right now (my last day!!!)

Gee Don, I hope it's a good ending? And perhaps a good new beginning?

ORIGINAL: dstrenz

ORIGINAL: chefmike8888
Hey Don, would you mind explaining how you built the case? I have a few mic's and would like to have a case for them. I would just buy one but every time I go to buy one I end up buying other stuff instead.

Sure, Mike. I'm at work right now (my last day!!!) but will edit this message when I get home tonight with instructions and photos.

Cool, thanks Don. And congratulations on the last day at work. I hope to get there some day.

Mike

ORIGINAL: yep

ORIGINAL: dstrenz

So then exposure to moisture degrades the sound as opposed to simply killing all the sound. ...

Usually it's the opposite. Mics generally tend to either work or they don't. The electromechnical components in an adequately-constructed condenser mic are not likely to be vaguely "degraded" by ordinary atmospheric humidity in a functional sense.

There are certain things such as capacitors and magnetic components that over time can theoretically drift out of spec but that's just from being old, and most old mics sound more or less as good as comparable new mics, at least.

Truly extreme atmospheric conditions are tough on anything mechanical, but by and large, a mic is not like a violin or a loaf of bread where you have to worry that it might "go bad" if not treated with kid gloves. Usually, it either works or it doesn't.

Cheers.

so I'm confused then - if this is true - where did all this hogwash about mics slowly degrading under high-moisture environments stem from? I seriously have read kind of stuff in very expensive books about mixing and microphone technique.

ORIGINAL: chefmike8888
Hey Don, would you mind explaining how you built the case? I have a few mic's and would like to have a case for them. I would just buy one but every time I go to buy one I end up buying other stuff instead.

I uploaded the instructions to my site because for simplicity's sake because I can upload images while posting. Rereading what I wrote, it looks a lot more complicated than it really is but I got a little carried away with details.

http://www.donstrenz.com/Forums/tabid/55/forumid/14/postid/162/view/topic/Default.aspx

ORIGINAL: losguy

ORIGINAL: dstrenz
I'm at work right now (my last day!!!)

Gee Don, I hope it's a good ending? And perhaps a good new beginning?

Yeah, thanks. It's a very good ending. Glad to be out of there and can now start a new beginning,, somewhere better, I hope. :)

ORIGINAL: joshhunsaker

ORIGINAL: yep

ORIGINAL: dstrenz

So then exposure to moisture degrades the sound as opposed to simply killing all the sound. ...

Usually it's the opposite. Mics generally tend to either work or they don't. The electromechnical components in an adequately-constructed condenser mic are not likely to be vaguely "degraded" by ordinary atmospheric humidity in a functional sense.

There are certain things such as capacitors and magnetic components that over time can theoretically drift out of spec but that's just from being old, and most old mics sound more or less as good as comparable new mics, at least.

Truly extreme atmospheric conditions are tough on anything mechanical, but by and large, a mic is not like a violin or a loaf of bread where you have to worry that it might "go bad" if not treated with kid gloves. Usually, it either works or it doesn't.

Cheers.

so I'm confused then - if this is true - where did all this hogwash about mics slowly degrading under high-moisture environments stem from? I seriously have read kind of stuff in very expensive books about mixing and microphone technique.

Having used a wide variety of old mics that were not consistently kept in anything close to pristine conditions, my personal experience is that real-world "oldness" does not in and of itself cause a microphone to sound bad.

I have enough knowledge of electrical, electronic, and mechanical components to know at least the following two facts:

1. All components will degrade over time, and extremes of temperature, humidity, and other atmospheric components will accelerate that degradation.

2. The components in typical professional-caliber microphones are fairly resistant to such things, as electro-mechanical components go.

A lot of things get blown out of proportion in the audio world, especially among audiophile types who have a smattering of knowledge in a lot of fields but not much deep understanding.

Of course, being left out in the rain or snow or baked in an oven or left for years beside an indoor swimming pool or whatever can certainly damage a microphone (or a combine tractor, for that matter). Entropy affects all things and in time it all turns to dust, and the older a thing is and the more it has been exposed to humidity, acidity, dust, temperature extremes, and so on, the closer it gets to end-of-life.

To say that all microphones "either work or they don't" is obviously an oversimplification, but by and large it's a pretty useful rule of thumb.

It's hard to argue against being over-cautious. Someone who takes the position that you should change your oil with full synthetic every 1000 miles and seal your tile grout every three months and test all your smoke detectors every week and wear a helmet when sledding can always point to some horror story of someone who failed to do so, and they'd be right-- you can never be too careful. But by the same token, you can often save a lot of time and money by taking calculated risks.

Some of the most highly-prized mics in the world are vintage devices that spent decades in un-air-conditioned, smoke-filled rooms and that were used in broadcast 24 hours a day with people breathing and spitting on them and that have been kept in attics and basements and so on, and those mics still come out of all that abuse sounding glorious and commanding outrageous prices. How can this be? It's because, by and large, mics either work or they don't.

Cheers.

Your argument is very convincing, Yep. Still I wonder what specifically the guys who write the manuals for mics were thinking when they added the warnings about moisture... I just fired off an email to an old friend who does advertising for Neumann and Sennheiser to see if he'll ask someone there.

(Edit:)
Got a reply and he pretty much confirmed what Yep said, with some more info, and an inexpensive mic/headphone deal:

Hey Don,

Yes, condenser mics can be more susceptible to the ill-effects of moisture. Peep can probably supply the technical stuff, but essentially there is a charge-coupled element in the mic that requires between 12 and 48 volts to energize. This element works in conjunction with the dynamic element (the diaphragm) to convert analog impulses (ie: audio from a source, such as your voice) to electrical impulses. In a dynamic mic, this conversion is done in a mechanical way... with a condenser, it's got electronic help. This help is why a condenser can be much more sensitive, give greater dynamic range, have wider frequency response and, in general, deliver a more accurate sound.

Moisture can have short or long term effects on the electronic circuitry and in the way the circuitry interacts with the mechanical elements. These can range from a simple, temporary short circuit to permanent damage due to a short to erosion of components, traces on the board, etc.

Being intimately familiar with the higher priced mics, such as Sennheiser and Neumann (I have had them as clients since 1991), I know that they go to great lengths to build protection into their mics to provide immunity to damage from moisture without affecting performance. Sweat, humidity and plain old water can be determental. Last year, on the Super Bowl, you saw Prince singing into a Sennheiser condenser wireless mic in the pouring rain. Try that with a Marshall, or M-Audio or any of the cheaper Chinese imports.

That said, there are some great values to be had on the cheaper stuff, and if you are paying less than $200, it's almost disposable should something happen.

My advice -- don't worry so much about it going forward. If you can get some sort of guarantee that it's not water damaged when you buy it, if you take care of it, you probably won't have any issues.

If you want some recommendations, let me know your price range. In general, Audio Technica makes great condenser mics for the money... An AT2020 for around $100 is a great deal. Here's a link to my client, BSW, offering a package with a 2020 and a set of AT heaphones for $99.

http://www.bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=AT2020-M20PKG

Let me know if I can help.

Bob

rap artists typically eat the mic, probably some metal artists too. i stay close to the mic just because of the noise floor in my recording area.

ORIGINAL: yep
And almost everyone breathes when they sing

+1

Corey

Remind me not to buy any used mic's from rap singers, then. Yechhhh....

ORIGINAL: lazarous

ORIGINAL: LixiSoft
One of my favorite designers is Aspen Pittman, the genius behind Groove Tubes. I have a bunch of GT gear...well more than a bunch <G>. I think GT mics are some of the most under rated mics in the market place. I have an original MD1 and an MD1a, both superb tube mics. When coupled with a GT Mic Pre they truly shine. BTW Lance your vocal style would just rock a GT MD1 mic & MP1 mic pre or even a Brick mic pre.

If you want a SMOKING deal on a re-branded mic, look into the Alesis AM50, 51, 60 and 61. The 50 & 51 are both FET mics, while the 60 & 61 are Tube. You can pick them up on eBay for under $200, if they're available, because nobody knows what they are, or what they sound like. Those who do, won't sell them.

These were $1200-1500 mics new, and they sound like it!

They were designed and built by GT, then rebranded as Alesis. I wouldn't sell mine for anything.

Corey

Well What about the am52 and 62 mics? Are they good as well like the 50, 51, 60, and 61?

Thanx, Lance

Well, the back order saga continues...

From their site:

"Estimated Availability: Mar 10, 2008 "

This piqued my interest, but I already own a Studio Projects C1 mic. Anyone know how this mic compares to the C1? Don't want to buy it if it's not better than the C1, or if it sounds about the same. Thanks.

Less boost in the upper mids/highs than the C1. Not necessarily better, but it is different. It is a very smooth sounding mic