I saw the Presonus Studio One Arranger Track and Scratchpad today, and basically that is exactly what I want in Sonar - perhaps enough that I will move DAWs now I know I can get that feature at a decent price.

To add my answer to the earlier question, I need seamless playback, not just rendered output. I dont want to wait for a mixdown to see if my new arrangement idea works. Either I need to be able to easily select and move entire sections without hacks and wrestling with selections, or I need playback to be able to jump to markers from arbitrary points (just the loop functionality on steroids really), or just something like musical directions (e.g. D.S. al Coda, etc) that do much the same.

Apart from being a great help in song writing, this will be invaluable for computer game developers who often need to write a bunch of loops that all have to work together in arbitrary permutations.

Bonus points are available if it's possible to specify that the end of oversized clips can 'spill over' into the next section!

Vastman
This would be the most significant improvement I can possibly imagine for Sonar... 

 
I have to agree. My number one new feature request. I also like what Studio One v3 has done w/ their Arranger Track/Scratch Pad. I'd like to see Sonar refine the idea even more. For example, Sonar has markers which users naturally use to demarcate song sections. So it would be cool if the arranger feature let you treat the time region defined by marker A to marker B as a song section.
 

moved from SONAR and merged with previous requests.

scook
moved from SONAR and merged with previous requests.

Thanks!
 
Wow, amazing support for this feature here! :D I've been campaigning about copying/pasting/moving song sections for years without gaining much traction, but once you see how it can be done effectively, it gets appealing I suppose. :)

Please add this!

+1

Recently I've been on a songwriting binge and I now want this feature bad enough that I'm going to spend a month with S3 in demo mode... fortunately, I also have the groove 3 30 day all access freebe to get me up to speed... The time I'm spending trying to tweak things I could be working ($) so I figure having two DAWs for awhile until the bakers step up might just be what the universe ordered... Despite the overwhelming support from users for this idea it appears to be in limbo and I'm at a point where I want this and it's worth the money to get it... I just hate the idea of learning another DAW...arrrrrg!
 
Wish the bakers would chime in on this one... seems so fundamental to all composers and the two biggest userbases... cubase and S3 now have it... 
 

Vastman
Wish the bakers would chime in on this one... seems so fundamental to all composers and the two biggest userbases... cubase and S3 now have it... 
 

Noel did chime in on page two, first stating that this has been something they've wanted to do for a while, but also (and maybe more importantly) asking about pure arranging vs. triggering arrangements in real-time.   I'm hoping that's an indication of things to come.   

I would expect to see this suddenly in an update any time soon. Just because it is "popular" doesn't mean it is happening or give a potential end date (especially having been on the radar since 2006). Times come in life where decisions require reality and sense of urgency.

I am definitely not disputing any of that in any way. As someone who also has only every used SONAR, I certainly did not demo S3 because I was bored (3 months ago now). I did not buy S3, but the arrangement/scratch pad portions are definitely tempting. Short term I keep arranging to "nuts and bolts" only, which is easily manageable, but cringe at the thought of chopping/swapping sections in a final mix.
 
My original comment came from step sequencer issues I was having 2 years ago that cause me to get Geist. At that time I felt there should be no reason to have to (Cakewalk's roots are in MIDI, so should be the king of MIDI IMO). But in hindsight the time-pressure for "necessity" was actually good for me (since 2 years later, the issues that drove me to buy Geist still exist).
 
I guess was meant more as a dose of reality. Not that the issue is not huge (it is), but when will users actually see it?

mettelus
I am definitely not disputing any of that in any way. As someone who also has only every used SONAR, I certainly did not demo S3 because I was bored (3 months ago now). I did not buy S3, but the arrangement/scratch pad portions are definitely tempting. Short term I keep arranging to "nuts and bolts" only, which is easily manageable, but cringe at the thought of chopping/swapping sections in a final mix.
 
I guess was meant more as a dose of reality. Not that the issue is not huge (it is), but when will users actually see it?

well, that's the fundamental question to me...I've been with Sonar since 5 or 6 and have never used another DAW' if I knew it is being worked on to be rolled out in an evolving fashion (like the drum thingy that I've never used) I wouldn't bother trialing other DAWs... it ain't fun and aside from exploring rearranging/cutting/pasting potential song elements... I'm totally in heaven.  However, I now realize the importance of playing with arrangements and this overwhelms everything in my book... comping, track templates and a zillion other things are why I love sonar but playing with the flow of a song is so fundamental; and seeing it in action makes me realize how important it is... 
 
I would love to know I can look forward to this sometime this year.  It's got to be hurting sales of any DAW without this ability...S3 is screaming about this feature and how it works with their endless scratch pads... much like Plt's mix saves... and it resonates enough that I've watched every vid on the subject...I honestly find the thought of the huge effort to switch to be very yucky; yet arranging is very attractive and would change how I create significantly...while I'm an "oldy", it's gotta resonate with all new/young users trying to decide on a DAW and that's what Cake should be trying to attract.
 
Personally I find Plt much more eloquent in all respects, including visually... but arranging? It's laborious...it does NOT invite or encourage experimentation...I'm trying to talk myself out of spending time with DAWs that have this feature; but at some point I just gotta bite the bullet for lack of info on whether this is even being worked on here...
 

+1
Vote/Bump
 
If it was just a clone of Studio One's feature, that would be perfectly great.
 
But knowing the Cakewalk crew, they'd make it even better...
 
 
This would save HOURS and HOURS of fiddling, and also enable us to be creative with our arrangements...

Voted 5***** for use as an arrangement tool !!
Timeline & Markers are just too small and unreadable, indistinguishable. Clip-Groups get muddled up.
 
Voted also here:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Offset-Mesure-One-m3097431.aspx#3098058
-> please take into consideration the offset/pre-measure one request there (or shifting of measures)
 
Also would like to see content of automation lanes to be treated as clips (i.e. splittable and selectable as in take-lanes). Thereby allowing quick copying of envelopes to other tracks or other parameters.
Further linking of markers with clips&automation when dragging ALL content (vs. cut & insert special)
I think this all falls into the same category of ARRANGEMENT features.

stevec

Vastman
Wish the bakers would chime in on this one... seems so fundamental to all composers and the two biggest userbases... cubase and S3 now have it... 
 

Noel did chime in on page two, first stating that this has been something they've wanted to do for a while, but also (and maybe more importantly) asking about pure arranging vs. triggering arrangements in real-time.   I'm hoping that's an indication of things to come.   

Triggering arrangement would be faster. Once we find the arrangement is final then there can be an option "Rearrange" which will auto rearrange as pure.

Anderton
Meanwhile, I use Clip Groups a lot. It's a habit I got into with Sony Vegas as a way to move video+audio events around, so I was glad when it was added to SONAR. 

Can it be done in a different manner?
Sir, 
Instead of GUI, a simple window with a 2-column structure [Marker Name, No of times]

In the main track view, we can put as many markers we need and then we can call up the window which initially will have the table populated with the list of markers and default number of times=1.

 We can then rearrange the sequence dragging each marker and if required we can change the number of times.  Also Control+drag-drop will copy a marker.
 
Play back from within this window will be according to this sequence.
 
We can save sequences and recall.
 
I am not sure.
Regards.

M@
Also would like to see content of automation lanes to be treated as clips (i.e. splittable and selectable) thereby allowing quick copying of envelopes to other tracks or other parameters.
 

This is a super good idea.