John T

Jose7822


John T,

Seriously, you're posts aren't adding anything to the discussion.  They're just diminishing the value of this thread and possibly scaring away the developers with none-sense. 

Please, let's keep this thread civil and constructive. 

Thanks!

I don't think I'm being un-civil. But I think I see the problem as lying in another area. Which is, in my view, that some people are having a terrible effect on the signal to noise ratio by filling up these threads with stuff that's largely nonsensical.

Repeatedly banging on over and over that everything should just work fine first time is not getting anyone anywhere, because this simply isn't how software works, especially not software for a constantly moving hardware target.

Similarly, baldly stating that the problem with Sonar is that features are not supported after first release isn't getting anyone anywhere, because it's just plain not true.

I've got absolutely no objection to people raising bugs and issues, because that's useful to all of us. But the constant and repetitive griping adds nothing to the knowledge base about real issues. And adds precious little to the sense of what users want, when people are asking for the moon on a stick rather than things which are actually practical.

"It should just work first time and never need fixing" is a ridiculous demand, and little more than a way of marking out space for an "I reserve the right to complain unreasonably for all eternity" position. That looks set to get old very fast, to me.

Is it really too much to ask that people be constructive, and don't add to their objections with fictional and absurd exaggerations and qualifiers? I don't think so, myself.

 
I get your point John, but I think you took their comments WAY too literally.  SONAR does have old bugs that never seem to get addressed or are simply abandoned (i.e. the Score Editor and Beat Scape, as mentioned earlier).  Then there are those features that do get updated, yet they still remain really buggy (i.e. Audio Snap).  That's the point that the others are making, but you focused on the semantics (which is the part that deteriorates this thread).  The "let's keep this thread civil" part was more for good measure :-)  This is so far the best thread since X1's release, so I'm only trying to keep it that way.  Hope you understand.
 
Take care!

Really, it's not semantics.

noiseboy

John T



Can you think of an entirely bug-free piece of software? I can't.

Notepad?

LOL!

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]

It depends on what you call "arguably more useful features".

 
ahem how about next generation comping, take management, asset management and engine routing improvements. To me all of those with benefit a LOT more users than this one feature.
And don't say I want all of that plus this since it won't happen :) In case its not clear I'm not questioning that lanes have some benefits visually and some folks like that paradigm. I'm questioning priorities in the evolution of this product. I personally see other areas that would benefit the overall application more than this one since with X1 envelope editing is very usable and a huge improvement from earlier versions. But thats just me!

 
 
Noel,
 
Those are very good features indeed, but I'm with the "less is more" camp.  I'd rather have less well implemented (and almost bug-free) features than a pack of so-so ones.  I would like for you guys to really analyze what the competition is doing and bring us something that's even better.  You may argue that the Edit Filter is an example of that, and it is for certain things, but not for envelopes.  Again, I'm still yet to see an implementation of Automation that's better than Automation Lanes (especially the one in Reaper, which seems to have taken some ideas from FabFilter in the way their envelopes are designed).  With ANY feature, the goal should be less clicking and more workflow - with emphasis on the word flow.  It needs to be so fluid that one doesn't even think about it.  Clicking requires thinking to ensure you make the right choices and slows down repeated actions since the clicking doubles or triples in amount when done repetitively.  That's what I see (FLOW) when I look at Automation Lanes, and it doesn't seem to be just me.
 
Having said that, if development resources prohibits Automation Lanes to be implemented any time soon, then the second best option is having the envelopes in their own space inside the Track as was shown in one of the "R" product screenshots.  That way there is no clutter and everything is kept inside the track.  This still doesn't solve the 'multiple envelopes of same the shape' problem, but it's close enough.  Did you noticed what I just said?  "Close enough".  This is a word I'd like for Cakewalk to get rid of.  "Work-around" is another word Cakewalk should completely remove from their vocabulary.  Quality vs quantity.  But I digress.
 
Take care!

You're misreading it. The registry hack point is an aside, you can get this behaviour regardless. Try it.

You must not be following the steps correctly. It does exactly what's described for me, and I'm using a fully-updated Windows 7 install.

Not to accuse you of lying, of course (despite the fact you've just accused me of lying), but if you didn't believe there was a bug after reading that, why did you try it?

Indeed, if your reading was that it required a registry hack in order to replicate the behaviour, are you telling me you actually did the whole registry hack thing? Wouldn't that be what "trying it" would have entailed, given your reading of the data?

Go on, admit it, you didn't actually try it did you? You thought you'd caught me out or something, and just posted straight away. Well, no cigar, sorry.

This is really quite an enormous tangent now. It's kind of absurd that anyone is even trying to "prove" that there's some software out there that's totally bug free. Notepad was actually a fairly good call, but as we can see, even something that simple has both unexpected behaviours, and bugs that haven't been fixed for years.

I see everything twice!!

John T


Well, you know it started really well, and then got bogged down in repetitions of the same old nonsense. You could argue that I'm not helping much here, but I'm getting fed up to the back teeth of it , and thought it was worth not letting it fly, for once. A significant number of complaints in this thread are either unreasonable, just plain not true, or both. And they're coming over and over again from the same people. It's basically vandalism of what could and should be interesting and useful threads.

 
 
Don't worry John T - all in balance right?... cause I can sure as heck assure you that there are at least some of us out here that are "full to the back of the teeth" with your post as well...
 
see how that works??
 
By the way - This was the definitive X1 thread for me as well....but... hey ... It's the Sonar Forum.....business as usual
 
as I said on the 1st page - Terrific Post eratu - You had a good one going...for a while :)
 

  edit: sorry for misquoting you John T - believe it was "fed up to the back of the teeth of it"

Add 1 to "full to the back of the teeth".

Is it ok to point that you just quoted a 90% percent improvement?

well... I am ever an optimist. :-)

I just tried the bug thing with Notepad again and I was able to recreate it this time. At least it didn't corrupt my txt file and cause me to lose a days work, and it didn't cost me $500 plus an additional $100 per year for updates, which is what this is really all about.

Repetition is the most effective way to share and idea with a large audience.

geez louise, I would think EVERY musician knows that.

I know the drummers know about it.

best regards,
mike

sdpate

CW does some of that but as long as I've seen it - 3 years - the user is expected to become a plumber to get a shower.

Well put!