Danny Danzi
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/21 06:02:23
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Satellite: The way I have my subs hooked up, I can't even see if I used that or not to be honest. When I set them up originally, I was just messing around with the stuff on the back until it sounded right to me without looking at it. This was with no correction at the time. As for the crossover, there is no set place really. It depends on the room, the monitors, your ears in what you prefer to hear and how you have the sub positioned etc. I'm using 85 Hz here and 70 Hz at my other studio.
Monitor eq controls in the back: All set to flat. I have no idea what is right or wrong to be completely honest with you. When I know something, I'll type you a novel...when I don't, I have no bones about admitting "cluless". LOL! But here's what I did...if it helps any.
I played some what I like to call, really good reference material through my monitors after I measured everything up, kept them away from the wall and then set up the sub which is in between them completely centered. While playing the reference material, I started messing with the sub frequency control (Adam Sub 8) until it sounded right to me...just adding a nice bottom without booming or being rumbly and obnoxious.
From there I messed around with a few switches on the back that I couldn't even see...I just sort of felt for them due to where I have the sub. I COULD get back there, but really didn't feel like it, so I looked at the manual and felt my way around and just experimented until I was happy. From there, I messed around with the monitor eq stuff on the back of each one...then decided to keep them flat because I would be doing the ARC correction and felt they should probably not be adjusted. I liked them better flat anyway as they just sounded great (Adam A-7's) right out of the box. So from there, I did the ARC correction, messed it up the first time, re-did it and never looked back.
My NS-10's don't have any controls on the backs of them, so I just said a prayer and ARC'd them. I did my monitors without the sub first just for my head to see how well ARC would do. It did so well with the A7's I seriously don't need the sub as I can't tell the difference when I use the correction without the sub, then switch to the correction that was done with the sub while engaging it. It really was amazing how well it did on those.
The NS-10's failed with the "without sub" correction horribly. They sounded worse with correction than without it. All my other monitors, Genelec, Tannoy, Tascam, Rokit 8's and an old set of Radio Shack Optimus that I did for the heck of it, passed with flying colors with and without the sub. I didn't use any coloration functions on any of the monitors that had those options. :)
-Danny
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bitflipper
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/21 14:23:06
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OK. The most obvious thing - it will take away early reflections from objects in the room. it's easy to see how EQ can do no such thing. In fact EQ has been determined to be a poor solution for fixing room problems, even in the concert hall setting. Impulse response or 'IR' created acoustic spaces ie. convolution reverb is created by creating a massive document of the reflections times from surfaces within an acoustic space. There is also a reverse process known as DEconvolution whereby the reflections within an acoustic space can be canceled out. The math has been known for ages, but only recently has the computing power to make it happen been available. Notice there is no EQing involved, but just the removal [canceling] of all those reflections and standing waves that mess with frequency response in a closed space... ... As far as i know, the ARC system uses this DEconvolution method to do its magic, instead of any sort of EQ. I have used DEconvolution to suck all the 'reflections' out of a single listening position in my studio before, and it did work according to theory, but you can't move around like you can with IK's ARC. Ok, I'll check out the Audyssey site. Thanks bitflipper. No, ARC does not "take away early reflections from objects in the room". You're right: EQ can't do that, and ARC is an EQ. You're also correct that EQ is a poor solution for fixing room problems, at least as a sole solution, because the majority of room issues cannot be addressed by equalization. Here's the basic problem, and it's how this basic problem is addressed that distinguishes ARC from other room EQ strategies. The basic problem is that a room does not have one frequency response, it has thousands of different responses throughout the room. Take a measurement, then move your microphone even an inch or two and your next measurement will be different from the first. What ARC does is take multiple readings and calculate a weighted average to come up with an equalization curve that will have an optimal effect at all locations in the room. That's all it does. It does not address ringing, resonance or comb filtering, except to the extent that it sees the effect they have on overall frequency response. But I don't think it would even be possible for software to correct those things. Just as with dealing with early reflections, that would require a time-based dynamic adjustment, with the correction changing over time. The right type and amount of correction would depend on the source material and would change from moment to moment. Danny and I have had our disagreements over the merits of ARC. He loves it and doesn't want to mix without it. I respect that and would never suggest that ARC is useless or that Danny is experiencing some kind of placebo effect. I only take issue with the hyperbole and pseudo-scientific speculation that usually accompanies ARC testimonials. It's as good as any room EQ scheme, but it ain't magic. ARC's technology was originally intended for listening rooms - not studios - where you have multiple listeners at different locations, such as a movie theater. In that scenario, you must avoid corrections that would help one location while worsening the problems in other locations. That's why you use averages. I would argue that in a studio control room (which for me means the space in front of my computer), you're only concerned with correcting a very small physical area. In this scenario, I believe plain old equalization can do just as well as ARC.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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TraceyStudios
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/21 15:15:11
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I do (did have a sub) KRK 10s, a few days ago it died. Sending back to KRK for repair, once I get it back I will be interested to know how to set it up correctly. Sounds like Danny would be a great resource for this. In the past there have been some lengthy discussions about subs, at that time most who responded were anti-sub. interesting that with ARC, subs are recomended by a few on this thread. I feel better about mine now. :)
AMD FX-6100 six-core processor 3.3GHz 8 Gig RAM SONAR X3 Producer Tascam FW1884 Mackie Blackbird Presonus Digimax Avalon U5 BFD2 SL Trigger Alesis DM8 Pro drums KRK Rokit 8s KRK 10s ARC2 Folgers Dark Roast, a bit of crazy :) & lots of help from the forums! http://www.reverbnation.com/blakkmire
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Eddie TX
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/21 15:28:14
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Bit, have you tried using something like Ozone's matching EQ function to mimic what ARC does? Seems like that would be pretty easy ... set up a suitable mic at your listening position, run pink noise out of your monitors, record what the mic hears, and match that freq curve to a flat line. Should work pretty well, eh? Would be interesting to see how well the result matches that from ARC.
Cheers,
Eddie
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bitflipper
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/21 18:32:44
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Eddie, what I prefer is an outboard hardware parametric equalizer and manual measurements to calibrate it. Using hardware has the advantages of zero CPU overhead, never having to worry about bypassing when exporting, and I can enjoy its benefits with all audio sources, not just my DAW.
Yes, you could use Ozone's matching EQ to get pretty close. ARC's EQ has much finer resolution, up to 128 bands IIRC. However, that's actually much higher resolution than is needed. Useful corrections tend to be broader than, say, a quarter octave. All those narrow peaks and dips you see when you generate a waterfall plot - they look bad but the truth is you can't hear them. So just about any EQ, with a little patience, could do a decent job even if at a lower resolution than ARC.
I have, in fact, used the Sonitus EQ for room correction, back before I acquired the EQ unit I use now. It actually helped a great deal, but I kept forgetting to bypass it! I once generated a set of test tones to burn onto a CD for a friend, and only realized after I'd burned the disk that I'd had the EQ in-circuit when I'd written the file. That was the moment I decided to get the EQ unit.
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/21 20:31:48
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bitflipper
OK. The most obvious thing - it will take away early reflections from objects in the room. it's easy to see how EQ can do no such thing. In fact EQ has been determined to be a poor solution for fixing room problems, even in the concert hall setting. Impulse response or 'IR' created acoustic spaces ie. convolution reverb is created by creating a massive document of the reflections times from surfaces within an acoustic space. There is also a reverse process known as DEconvolution whereby the reflections within an acoustic space can be canceled out. The math has been known for ages, but only recently has the computing power to make it happen been available. Notice there is no EQing involved, but just the removal [canceling] of all those reflections and standing waves that mess with frequency response in a closed space... ... As far as i know, the ARC system uses this DEconvolution method to do its magic, instead of any sort of EQ. I have used DEconvolution to suck all the 'reflections' out of a single listening position in my studio before, and it did work according to theory, but you can't move around like you can with IK's ARC. Ok, I'll check out the Audyssey site. Thanks bitflipper.
Danny and I have had our disagreements over the merits of ARC. He loves it and doesn't want to mix without it. I respect that and would never suggest that ARC is useless or that Danny is experiencing some kind of placebo effect. I only take issue with the hyperbole and pseudo-scientific speculation that usually accompanies ARC testimonials. It's as good as any room EQ scheme, but it ain't magic.
ARC's technology was originally intended for listening rooms - not studios - where you have multiple listeners at different locations, such as a movie theater. In that scenario, you must avoid corrections that would help one location while worsening the problems in other locations. That's why you use averages. I would argue that in a studio control room (which for me means the space in front of my computer), you're only concerned with correcting a very small physical area. In this scenario, I believe plain old equalization can do just as well as ARC.
You know bit, like religion, I'd never try to sell you on my beliefs as that's just not a cool thing to do. But man, I wish there was a way you could try this thing out and then just return it if it wasn't for you. Obi, if you're reading, make it happen. Bit here is a very respected and talented guy here that has lots of impact in his words. He'd be worth the investment inmy opinion! No better promotion than the possible conversion of someone as intelligent as he. :) That said, last night bit, I experienced loads of crashing with ARC 1 in Sonar X2a. Like, every 2 seconds. Once I removed it, no more crashing. I found the source of what was causing it...but I'll spare you there unless you're interested? Anyway, this of course forced me to use ARC 2 which sounds very close to ARC 1 for me, but I just like ARC 1 better because it's a little looser. Someone posted on the first page about ARC 2 sounding better and controlling low end a bit better and tighter. To me, that's the problem with it...it's a bit too tight and would make me mix a bit more bass heavier than I do now. But anyway, I did the correction with ARC 2 on my Adams when it came out. It sounded so much like ARC 1 to me (other than the tighter, controlled bass) that I didn't do any other corrections. So here I am in Sonar X2a, having to use ARC 2 and don't have any corrections for my other monitors. My point in sharing this with you is....I had read from you many times that ARC is just pretty much an eq. I've agreed with that...until now. I fired up X1 where ARC 1 doesn't crash, turned on my NS-10's and tried everything I could in ARC 2's manual eq adjustment to make it sound like they sounded in ARC 1. I couldn't come remotely close. I then tried various eq's that I had here attempting to copy whatever the heck ARC was doing to those NS-10's to make them sound so good. I failed at every attempt and couldn't even get a sound that was acceptable when I compared it to what ARC had done to those monitors. And let me tell you brother, I worked on this for about 4 hours because I was so determined to nail it. So, ARC may be an eq, but it's definitely doing something else that I can't quite explain. You know me bit, I have a pretty decent set of ears. I can cop anything I put my mind to. But this....it was just way out of my league and every eq I tried (even combinations of eq) failed. It's doing something that isn't entirely eq based, that's for sure. What it may be...no clue. I'd even be willing to accept the whole placebo effect bro. In this field, to me it doesn't matter how you get there, as long as you get there. LOL! :) -Danny
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Counting Coup
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/21 21:05:37
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Here is a quick nasty that worked for me when deciding where to place the sub. Place the sub as close as you can to the listening position. Crawl around the floor till it sounds "right". You'll know when it's "right". Then where you are is where the sub goes. Tweak the sub till happy and then let ARC2 do the rest. ARC is like Har-bal. Loads of static from the guys who dont use it: dismissal by incredulity. Just know it's the best damn money I've ever spent! David
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QuadCore
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/21 22:40:11
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Wow, Danny, that is interesting to hear. I also have ADAM-A7s and when i used ARC1 i was able to smooth out the low end out to about 50+~ Hz. with some ripple... ... That's why i was asking you about subs... ... Now with ARC2 i am able to get the response down to 35Hz. almost ruler flat, and it sounds much better, as it probably should... ... In fact, now that the response seems to be flat to 35Hz. and given what you said about your ADAM7s with ARC, i am once again wondering if i should bother getting a sub... ... Regarding what the heck ARC actually does... - It finds the impulse response of the speaker/room system. Then it creates a Time-Domain filter that is Convolved with the signal in each speaker to produce a flat/smooth response. So it is a bit different than EQ... ... - - Incidentally - I once tried ARCing speakers in my living room, where the left speaker was slightly around the corner behind a fish tank, and out of sight from where my lazy-boy listening chair was located. Obviously the sound wasn't even close to symmetrical but there was no other place to put the speaker. So I ARCed the room at my Lazy-Boy position and damn if it didn't pretty much fix the situation, at least at that one sitting location. It also took much of the boxy tone out of the cheap speakers i was using at the same time.
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bluzdog
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/21 22:49:27
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My Home Theater system has Audyssey room correction and it's night and day with the correction.
Rocky
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ptheisen
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/21 23:37:29
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I use ARC2 in my somewhat treated home studio, as well as Audyssey's MultiEQ in my modest home theater setup. They both do a fantastic job when set up correctly, way, way better than any EQ I've ever tried. And yes, I tried Ozone's matching EQ, which did not come anywhere close to what ARC can do.
I don't know how they work, but I know they do work, through personal experience, and that can't be denied by someone else just because they think the Audyssey marketing is a bunch of mumbo jumbo. In my opinion, those who say they know that it is just a fancy EQ are at least as guilty of the mumbo jumbo, since they don't actually know, unless they somehow have been made privy to the actual details of the patented technology.
Sorry for the rant, but I get a little tired of people denigrating other people's experiences just because they can't believe that a company may have developed a technology that is beyond their current level of understanding.
I think that anyone who actually gives it a fair trial has a great chance of becoming a believer too, not because of anything someone else says, but through their own experience.
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/22 04:54:10
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I get a little tired of people denigrating other people's experiences just because they can't believe that a company may have developed a technology that is beyond their current level of understanding. I think that anyone who actually gives it a fair trial has a great chance of becoming a believer too, not because of anything someone else says, but through their own experience. This above sums it up for me. Though I try not to let my frustration get the best of me to where I would rant, I'm also a firm believer of "don't believe everything you read and don't allow your mind to rule things out until you can experience something for yourself." Present company in this thread excluded, there have been a few that have joined other threads totally annihilating ARC. Take one listen to their mixes and you'll see that they could benefit from it if they took their heads out of their butts and tried to be open-minded engineers instead of scientists that talk the talk yet can't walk the walk. There have been a few that tried it and failed....ok, so it's not for everyone. But I just can't see why anyone would just read about something that *may* sound too good to be true and just write it off as "impossible." There are many things in life that may not make sense to us or look good on paper. The thrill of experience to me makes things so much more worth while, I'd be missing out on aspects of life and success if I just listened to people or believed totally what I've read. If I listened to friends, some family members and artists telling me to cut my hair because I'd never make a dollar with my music, I wouldn't be where I am today. If I listened to the so called car know-it-alls that told me Corvettes were junk, break down like crazy and are terrible on gas, I'd not have the enjoyment I've had with my car since 2001 without a single major repair that is NOT garage kept and lasts a week on a single tank of premium fuel. If I listened to the seasoned pro's that told me Pro Tools was the industry standard for a reason, I wouldn't be here on this forum, I wouldn't have the friends I've made here, I wouldn't have the business partnerships I've made here, and I'd be looking at an ugly DAW that in my opinion, falls way short of what Sonar can do FOR ME using Sonar's worst build. And last but not least, if I believed what I read as well as what I've heard from credible people I respect and look up to that have bashed ARC into the ground that have never tried it, I would have a room full of ugly room correction in my man cave that I would have to explain all the time to people that come TO MY HOUSE as well as not having my monitor issues fixed. I'd also not have the business I have now because before ARC, though I like to say I was a fair engineer that was hit or miss, I was actually a VERY good engineer that just couldn't hear correctly to make the right calls. There was NEVER anything wrong with me or my knowledge. I just couldn't hear correctly. When you can't hear correctly, you can't make the right calls. When you can't make the right calls, you're not a very good engineer even though in reality, you very well could be if you were placed in the right environment. At the end of the day, I can respect anyone's opinion and when I say that, I mean it. But, I CANNOT respect an opinion of someone who has never tried or experienced this for themselves that may seem to go out of their way to try to make others think it's all hype. Think about it. How credible does it make a person? If I sat here and told you Reaper sucks because what I read about it didn't impress me to where I feel I can get the same results out of Adobe Audition, am I not out of my tree if I never try Reaper to see for myself? How can I tell you hybrid cars are not all that based on what I may read if I've never owned one? How can I tell you that Apple Cider Vinegar does NOT work for curing night cramps because medical science has no proof of it? Yet I can tell you from experience, 2 teaspoons of ACV with a little honey will take your cramps away in less than a minute. How credible is my opinion on something if I have never physically tried it and have formed my opinion solely on what I've read while others praise the thing from experience? It would make me look bad...period. Again, I'm honestly speaking in general terms and am not singling anyone out. I just can't for the life of me, understand how anyone can form a negative opinion on something they have never experienced for themselves, yet decide to fight tooth and nail with those who have had success. It just makes no sense to me at all. -Danny
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Anderton
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/22 05:37:50
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Noise reduction works best on signals that don't have a lot of noise, and room correction works best on rooms that aren't too bad to begin with. I used to be in bitflipper's corner about room EQ but that was because I was working in big studios. And yes, you could equalize for a sweet spot but if you sneezed, you were outside the zone and everything got screwed up again. Besides, equalizing a room with horrible acoustics just ends up giving you a heavily-equalized room with horrible acoustics.  However...I that ARC is very effective, BUT to a great extent it's because the people using it have near field monitors. NFMs already take a lot of the room out of the equation because you're getting so much more direct sound than reflected sound. By analyzing the room, ARC cleans up the reflected sound so it doesn't fight with the direct sound as much. As a bonus, it will pick up if your speakers have any obvious deficiencies. Bitflipper is also right about the averaging thing, but that's another reason why ARC is more effective. It trades off having one sweet spot that's totally perfect for a much wider sweet spot that doesn't compensate as completely. That's a logical tradeoff to make if you're mostly hearing the direct sound from the speaker. I wrote a review of the original system for Harmony Central that some might find helpful in terms of understanding how the system works. Low frequencies are the most prone to anomalies and problems. If you can afford to treat only one aspect of your room, then get some bass traps; also deaden any reflective wall opposite where you're monitoring. Then ARC won't have to work so hard, and the results will be even better.
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Barczar
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/22 06:13:30
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OK, you guys got me sold on the ARC system. Here's my question. I have my recording desk against the wall and the side wall to my right is about 2' away. From the front wall to the back wall is about 12'. To the left of me is open. Here's my question. What is the minimal amount of room treatment I would need to work well with the ARC? ( Keep in mind I'm married and she's really mean)
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/22 06:34:29
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Good read on your review there. One thing you'd find different today is if you were to do this: In order to try and “break” the system and see if I could uncover a flaw, I decided to do two separate sets of measurements, with the same set of speakers but with the mics “sampling” the room at very different positions (albeit following the rule of symmetrical placement and proper level-setting). Surprisingly, the measurement curves were virtually identical.
It would indeed be a much different outcome. Depending on what version of the software you used would dictate this. They fixed quite a lot of issues after the first build as well as a few builds after that. However, they also broke quite a few things in the later revisions. I know this from trying them all while taping my room and measuring things up as perfect as possible yet getting different results from some of the later software. Some of it didn't make much of a difference while others, you could get a difference if you had a little more tilt to your mic. The big change in the actual correction improvement was with build 1.1 for me. Phasing issues were under control as well as an over-all better correction experience. 1.1.1 was to me, the best of all of them and to this day, what I would use to do the actual correction procedure with. Then I'd update to the latest version. I'd still be using 1.1.1 today actually, but it will crash Sonar X2 repeatedly. 1.3.1 fixes it...but I wasn't crazy with the correction results of 1.3.1. If anyone sees any crashing with ARC 1 and you're using 1.1.1, just update to 1.3.1 and you'll be ok. No need to do any additional corrections. Not to compete with Craig here, but I too have written an artical on ARC if you care to read it. http://issuu.com/Wusik/docs/wsmapr201296dpi/37 I don't know about any of the aesthetics, but I shared what worked for me as well as how I went about it. -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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ptheisen
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/23 21:22:53
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@Barczar, I'll try to answer your question indirectly. Whatever room treatment you can reasonably do is defintely a good thing, especially if you also record live audio in the room. Most small rooms don't have a desirable sonic fingerprint, so you want to minimize the amount of sound the room imparts to live recordings by reducing reflections. I estimate that I have at least 50%, probably more, of my walls covered with 2" Auralex panels. All first reflection areas are covered, including behind the monitors and on the ceiling. First reflection areas are all those areas of the wall or ceiling that if someone else holds a mirror against them, you can see your monitors in the mirror when you are seated in the mix position. I have bass traps in three of the corners. I can't put one in the fourth corner because the door is there, and I don't really have room anywhere else for more. That is the maximum amount of physical room treatment I feel I can fit in, and it definitely makes a positive difference. But the room is still far from perfect, especially on the bass end of the spectrum, which is why I use ARC, because with ARC, my mixing/mastering environment is at least as accurate as almost any professional studio, and probably better than some if they don't use ARC. In ballpark numbers, I have $500/pair monitors, $500 in room treatment and $500 in ARC (you can get it for significantly less now), so for $1500 dollars, I have the same sound as studios that spent 10 times as much or more. I call that a great bargain! More specific to your set up, if at all possible, first experiment with different positions in the room for your monitors, so that the bass response is the most smooth and natural without any help from anything else. Your situation with only two feet to the wall on the right and an open left side is definitely not ideal. I'm guessing you'd get better results with the monitors located such that the side walls are fairly symmetrical with them, yet still as far away as possible. In my own case, I moved my monitors from the short wall to the long wall to achieve this, and it helped a lot. Due to other factors. my desk placement is still not exactly symmetrical with the monitors, which makes the left and right monitors sound a bit different from each other. But ARC straightens that out beautifully, the imaging is superb with ARC turned on. Hope this helps somewhat. P.S. I'm married too, but my wife isn't mean. I'll bet your wife isn't really mean either. 
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Barczar
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/24 16:51:12
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Hey Ptheisen, thanks for the tips. I know I need some kind of room treatment but I wasn't sure how much. I don't have a choice where my desk goes so I can't move it. But I am thinking of at least getting some treatment on the wall behind my monitors, the ceiling above me, and the wall to the right of me. I could get by with that for around $500.00. Between that and the ARC it should be an improvement.
And you're right. My wife is not mean, I'm pretty lucky!
i7 930 2.80Ghz processor- 9 gigs tri-channel RAM- (2) 1TB hard drives (7200)-1TB external drive- 24" monitor- Windows 7 (64 bit)- Focusrite Saffire usb 6 audio interface- A pro 500 keyboard controller- Sonar Platinum Professional-Izotope Ozone 7 Advanced - Melodyne Editor-Slate Digital Plugins VCC,VTM,VBC,FG-X,VMR,SSD4- Sound Forge 8- Sony CD architect 5
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dmbaer
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/24 19:26:02
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I was going to test ARC 1 in X2a to see if I had the same problem Danny reported. Then I discovered something weird on my system. The ARC dll was in my 64-bit Program Files area, but X2a showed it as "ARC (32-bit)" in the VST effects list when I right clicked an effects bin.
I've used ARC 1 without issue in Sonar 1 but I don't think I've ever given it a try with Sonar 2 yet. Does ARC 1 come as 64-bit, for starters?
Danny, is there any chance this might be the source of your crashing? I think I should probably download and re-install at this point, unless ARC 1 is only 32-bit (in which case I guess it's time to use my Jam points and upgrade to ARC 2). Any suggestions?
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TraceyStudios
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/24 23:11:28
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I just finished playing with ARC2. Was delivered today. I measured (not perfectly precise, was limited on time). just wanted to play with it for a bit. It definatley made a difference. My room is just a spare bedroom which I treated with foam. I sent the dimensions to Auralex, and they sent me back a suggestion of how to treat the room and suggested types of foam. I added the foam and there was a noticable pressure difference in the room and I saw my mixes get better, but still lacking. even the hour I spent playing with ARC2, I listened to a mix I thought sounded great in that room, applied the ARC plugin and found it didn't sound so good. I made some changes to the mix, got is sounding pretty decent again, and dumped it to a wave. Applied a bit of complression and boost11 just to get the volume up and took it to another computer to listen, and it sounds pretty good, very similar to my music room with ARC2. I was using Sonar X2a 64 bit, so it works just fine with 64 bit. I read some other folks got very precise in their measurements and I think I am going to follow thier lead on this a re-measure. Another thing I noticed, is once the room is flat, there were lots of things I had trouble hearing or bringing out in the mix without ARC, and now pretty easy to hear them. Reverbs are more audible and sublte changes are more noticable. It is a bit different to here the flat mix, i am planning to load some songs which are similar to use as a reference. I had the tendency to make them sound like I would want them sound on my stereo and they need to be flat. That is bad habit I will have to break and relearn.
So far I am happy, but again I haven't had a lot of time to tinker with it. I am feeling good about the purchase. Now I just need to figure out where to buy some talent and I should be on my way! :)
Thanks all for all of you help and suggestions. This forum is the greatest!
AMD FX-6100 six-core processor 3.3GHz 8 Gig RAM SONAR X3 Producer Tascam FW1884 Mackie Blackbird Presonus Digimax Avalon U5 BFD2 SL Trigger Alesis DM8 Pro drums KRK Rokit 8s KRK 10s ARC2 Folgers Dark Roast, a bit of crazy :) & lots of help from the forums! http://www.reverbnation.com/blakkmire
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/25 05:02:47
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dmbaer
I was going to test ARC 1 in X2a to see if I had the same problem Danny reported. Then I discovered something weird on my system. The ARC dll was in my 64-bit Program Files area, but X2a showed it as "ARC (32-bit)" in the VST effects list when I right clicked an effects bin.
I've used ARC 1 without issue in Sonar 1 but I don't think I've ever given it a try with Sonar 2 yet. Does ARC 1 come as 64-bit, for starters?
Danny, is there any chance this might be the source of your crashing? I think I should probably download and re-install at this point, unless ARC 1 is only 32-bit (in which case I guess it's time to use my Jam points and upgrade to ARC 2). Any suggestions?
Hi David, Yeah if you get a chance to test ARC 1, I can't get any version after 1.1.1 to work correctly in Sonar to where it literally loads up with the correction. It's enabled, loads up fine and shows my correction, but will not literally PLAY the right correction until I open the plug for the first time. As I open it, you hear the correction being applied to the project. It's so weird. Now 1.1.1, doesn't do this at all and works fine...it just won't work in X2a at all. I get a crash when a project opens that has it in there. So ARC 1 is toast for me in Sonar X2 unless I use ARC 2. As for your dll in the 64 folder, it just might have defaulted there when you installed it. If you get ARC 1 version 1.3.1, there is a 64 bit version that installs with it. Just make sure you don't put the 32 bit version in your 64 scan in Sonar or it will load the wrong one in Sonar 64. I had to put the 32 bit version in my Program files (86) Steinberg Vstplugins folder and the 64 went into the Cakewalk Vstplugins folder. (not the (86) program files) ARC 1 version 1.3.1 works....it just doesn't run my correction until the plug is physically opened for the first time on the bus. I literally see the graph move on it as it opens and then the correction is applied. Versions between 1.1.1 and 1.3 were even worse for me. With those, in ANY version of Sonar, the correction will not load unless I literally open the plug and click on the right correction in the ARC menu. It shows as my correction being loaded when I open the plug in the bus, but I have to click the menu and load it anyway. So at least 1.3.1 isn't that bad...I just have to open each instance of the plug for it to apply it right. I almost want to make a video of it so you can see/hear what I mean. IK support has been absolutely useless. I've had a ticket open for years to where *I* would be the last one to post in it, and they would just close the ticket without even replying back at times. It's like this. I save a project with it on using two instances in two different busses. One for my A7's, one for my NS10's. All is well..save the project and exit. Reopen the project, press play...something sounds funny and I get two kinds of artifacts, they are always different. ...like there is either no correction on my monitors or something sounds phasey, yet my master bus is sending to the ARC A-7 bus with ARC enabled. From there I just double click on the plug in my bus, the graph it shows literally moves by itself (the eq curve part) and it corrects the sound from just opening it automatically. Switch to my NS-10's using my monitor switcher while changing the master bus to the ARC NS-10's bus with the NS -10 correction loaded up....they sound weird. Double click the instance of ARC on that bus, the graph moves into position and correction is applied automatically and they sound as they should. They stay working for the remainder of my projects being open. But as soon as you close and reopen, same issue. So far ARC 2 works very well in all versions of Sonar...so I'm good there. I just don't quite trust it as the low end seems a little tighter to me and when I hear things through it, I want to add bass. I want to be able to listen and just know what to add without compensating or "getting used to" something. ARC 1 gave me exactly what my ears heard and I've been really successful with it. When something ain't broke....I dont' try and fix it. I dunno, maybe one of those really nice bakers can do me a little favor and see if they can fix it for me if it's nothing major. LOL! Works fine in X1 though. -Danny
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dmbaer
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/25 17:16:38
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Danny,
I tried to duplicate your issue but faced a set of challenges. I reinstalled ARC 1 (latest version freshly downloaded) making sure I installed both 32 and 64-bit versions. I got two dll-s placed in the expected locations. The install seemed to do what I instructed.
At first, when I ran Sonar, ARC showed up in the menus as "ARC (32 bit)". Indeed, when I inserted it into the master effects bin, my task manager showed a new application (Arc) that started up. It almost certainly it was getting the 32-bit version being executed. But all my other IK 64-bit plug-ins showed up correctly.
So I tried to re-order the VST scan folder list so that the 64-bit VST folders came first. It appears that cannot be done. Next attempt was to rename ARC.dll under Program Files (x86) to be ARC-32bit.dll. Now, after a VST reset, VST rescan and machine reboot (that appeared to be required to get this all to work), I finally am seeing ARC without the "(32 bit)" qualifier in the Sonar menus. Also, the task manager does not show a separate application when I insert in into a project. Finally!!!
So, at last I have something that should duplicate your setup. And Sonar does not crash when I open a project with ARC 1 in it. Thank goodness for small favors.
But this makes me question the judgement of the CW developers. If you're running 64-bit Sonar, would it not make sense to scan 64-bit VSTs first? Or, why not allow the user to specify the order of the directories in the scan list? As is, it seems one cannot have both a 32 and 64 bit version of the same VST installed, or you're always going to get the 32-bit version recognized. There may be a very good reason you'd like both on hand, but you'd rarely want the 32-bit version used when running it in Sonar.
Very puzzling.
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/25 20:31:44
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dmbaer
Danny,
I tried to duplicate your issue but faced a set of challenges. I reinstalled ARC 1 (latest version freshly downloaded) making sure I installed both 32 and 64-bit versions. I got two dll-s placed in the expected locations. The install seemed to do what I instructed.
At first, when I ran Sonar, ARC showed up in the menus as "ARC (32 bit)". Indeed, when I inserted it into the master effects bin, my task manager showed a new application (Arc) that started up. It almost certainly it was getting the 32-bit version being executed. But all my other IK 64-bit plug-ins showed up correctly.
So I tried to re-order the VST scan folder list so that the 64-bit VST folders came first. It appears that cannot be done. Next attempt was to rename ARC.dll under Program Files (x86) to be ARC-32bit.dll. Now, after a VST reset, VST rescan and machine reboot (that appeared to be required to get this all to work), I finally am seeing ARC without the "(32 bit)" qualifier in the Sonar menus. Also, the task manager does not show a separate application when I insert in into a project. Finally!!!
So, at last I have something that should duplicate your setup. And Sonar does not crash when I open a project with ARC 1 in it. Thank goodness for small favors.
But this makes me question the judgement of the CW developers. If you're running 64-bit Sonar, would it not make sense to scan 64-bit VSTs first? Or, why not allow the user to specify the order of the directories in the scan list? As is, it seems one cannot have both a 32 and 64 bit version of the same VST installed, or you're always going to get the 32-bit version recognized. There may be a very good reason you'd like both on hand, but you'd rarely want the 32-bit version used when running it in Sonar.
Very puzzling.
Hi David, Thanks for the reply...and Merry Christmas by the way. :) A few things might have confused you in my last post, so I'd like to clarify a bit. I have two ARC issues. You won't be able to duplicate my issue unless you run the versions I speak of with the correct versions of Sonar. Issue 1: ARC 1 not keeping corrections relies on any version after 1.1.1 to present using any version of Sonar per my post above. Version 1.1.1 works perfectly in all versions of Sonar until X2. Issue 2: Crashing only occurs in Sonar X2 or X2a with ARC 1, version 1.1.1. As for the VST thing you mention, you should never see ARC exe running in task manager. Somehow, the ARC exe for the correction procedure was included in your VST scan is what I believe happened there. As for the other VST issue between 32 and 64, this happens when we include our 32 bit plugs in our 64 bit scan due to some of our plugs being needed in bridge mode. So if you have 32 bit plugs of the same product that are being scanned along with your plugs in the 32 bit folders that may NOT be 64, Sonar is going to wonder what the deal is as it will see both dll's. The fix for this is to not include any 32 bit plugs that you have 64's for, in your 64 bit plug scan. This way Sonar will always open 64's when you run it. How it knows to differentiate between stock Sonar plugs and 64 Sonar plugs is a bit mind boggling, however, I have seen a few 32 bit Sonar plugs in a 64 project. This usually happens to me when the project I brought into Sonar 64, was created using Sonar 32. It's hit or miss though really. Most times the 64's all load up, but I so see 32's showing up from time to time. I want to totally go 64 bit, but some of my 32 bit plugs haven't been revised to 64 bit...and as I said before, I have a few Dx plugs that I still use. So for me, I'll always need some of my 32 bit plugs to be bridged. What I have started to do though (which has helped leaps and bounds) is to remove all 32 bit plugs that have 64 bit versions from my VST scan folders in Sonar 64. This way if 32's show up, they will be there because they are supposed to be bridged....not by accident. One thing I've always done is keep all my VST plugs in one folder for 32, one for 64. When you install dual versions 32/64 of the same plug and include the 32's in your 64 plug scan, you're bound to see issues. So anything that I have in 32 bit that is also 64, I remove out of my 32 bit folder and into another so it is not included in the 64 bit plug scan yet all my other 32's that are not 64 that can be bridged, will still appear. Hope this clarifies a few things. :) -Danny
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dmbaer
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/26 13:35:03
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Danny Danzi
Issue 2: Crashing only occurs in Sonar X2 or X2a with ARC 1, version 1.1.1.
OK, now I understand. Somewhat of a relief, actually. I'm not sure I need ARC 2.
As for the VST thing you mention, you should never see ARC exe running in task manager. Somehow, the ARC exe for the correction procedure was included in your VST scan is what I believe happened there.
I don't believe that's correct. You should see any 32-bit VST as a separate application because it's a different process in a separate address space. Sonar can run 64-bit VSTs in its own address space, but it must run 32-bit VSTs (via bridging) in a separate one. As for the other VST issue between 32 and 64, this happens when we include our 32 bit plugs in our 64 bit scan due to some of our plugs being needed in bridge mode. So if you have 32 bit plugs of the same product that are being scanned along with your plugs in the 32 bit folders that may NOT be 64, Sonar is going to wonder what the deal is as it will see both dll's.
ARC is the only VST for which I thought it might be useful to have both versions on hand. Normally I never install 32-bit VSTs to begin with assuming one has the choice in the installer.
One thing I've always done is keep all my VST plugs in one folder for 32, one for 64. When you install dual versions 32/64 of the same plug and include the 32's in your 64 plug scan, you're bound to see issues. So anything that I have in 32 bit that is also 64, I remove out of my 32 bit folder and into another so it is not included in the 64 bit plug scan yet all my other 32's that are not 64 that can be bridged, will still appear.
Great idea. I now have four directories in the scan: CW 64-bit and 32-bit and "other" 64-bit and 32-bit. I think I'll try a fifth for 32-bit duplicates and not include it in the Sonar scan. That should keep things well behaved.
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creynolds
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/26 19:48:11
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Ok, I admit that I haven't read all the posts in this thread. Life is short. But!!!! I have a little room I mix in and it sounded DREADFUL! Mixes I made sounded simply 'wrong' elsewhere. So I looked at bits of sponge, wood, egg boxes and bass traps and all that stuff and came to the conclusion that the space needed EQ'ing and balancing somehow. I considered ARC but thought that it was a bit expensive and confusing, compared to the KRK ERGO hardware/software solution from KRK. With trepidation, I bought the unit for £399 from Thoman . It comes with its own calibration mic and software on a dongle. Cool for a few years ago! It took a few mins to install and run the calibration software which is very simple and straightforward. It makes lots of white and pink noises and encourages you to place the mic all over the room. You stop when you feel you have done enough. The results were immediate and impressive. No booming buzzes from the windows. No muddled mids and for the very first time I had justifiable confidence in what I heard. The mic is nice and good for acoustic guitar too. But there is more... The Base unit accepts analogue and digital inputs (auto switching) and functions as a pretty good Firewire audio interface. I simply feed the rca digital spdif out from my quad capture into it and it sounds great. But there's more. It has a an A/B or A/Sub button on it to select the outputs. There is also a Focus /Global button that allows you to switch from the focused mixing position setting to the wide room playback setting so that you can hone the sound to the setting required. Sounds like a sales pitch but, I set my unit up a year and a half ago and I have not touched it since. However... When I hit 'bypass', the windows buzz. So its still doing the business. Take a look http://www.krksys.com/krk-ergo.html
Rain Recording Nimbus. Sandybridge 2600k, 16gb Ram. Quadro FX 580, Roland Quad Capture. Avid Artist Mix and Transport. Loads of other cool stuff.
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TraceyStudios
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/26 21:37:32
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Creynolds, I considered that option, but decided on the ARC2 system. Similar, the mic can be used for acoustic guitar or other applications. It was really simple to set up, didn't have to re-wire anything. requires at least 7 measurments (i think), but you could do many many more if desired. Can save unlimited numbers of room measurements, plus has simulators for other audio devices (boom bx, car stereo etc). all for $300. Sounds like the KRK option works well also. Have already noticed much more accurate mixes. Unfortunatley for me, I am still learning how to engineer/mix. My advise to anyone is to seriously consider room correction if you are a hobbyist, probably one of the most practical $300 purchases you can make.
Good info for all to hear.
AMD FX-6100 six-core processor 3.3GHz 8 Gig RAM SONAR X3 Producer Tascam FW1884 Mackie Blackbird Presonus Digimax Avalon U5 BFD2 SL Trigger Alesis DM8 Pro drums KRK Rokit 8s KRK 10s ARC2 Folgers Dark Roast, a bit of crazy :) & lots of help from the forums! http://www.reverbnation.com/blakkmire
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DeeringAmps
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/27 12:25:57
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Tracey,
I'm NOT the expert here, I think MOST of the ARC users have relied heavily on Danny's input.
That being said, TAKE YOUR TIME, and "measure" your room VERY carefully.
Danny,
I can verify that ARC 1.3.1 works FINE in X2a on my x32 and x64 systems.
It is always "ON" when I launch a project. No crashes!
If it were me I would:
1. Image my system
2. Copy my ARC correction files to a safe place (C:\Users\your name\Documents\IK Multimedia\ARC System\Filters) they are name.arc probably wouldn't hurt to backup the .arc2 files as well.
3. uninstall ARC 1.1.1
4. install ARC 1.3.1
5. Copy your back up .arc files in the "Filters" folder.
6. Launch and test.
I'm seeing "issues" with some of the IK plugs, I "think" any that are not x64 capable are problematic in X2. SVX and the CSR reverbs so far. IIRC ARC 1.1.1 is not x64, right?
Haven't tried any of the VSTi's yet...
Dave,
I'm guessing, but have no way to prove this, that ARC (more correctly Audessy) does some phase manipulation as well as EQ.
Its the only thing that makes sense for correcting a "null".
Don't you think?
T
Tom Deering Tascam FW-1884 User Resources Page Firewire "Legacy" Tutorial, Service Manual, Schematic, and Service Bulletins Win10x64 StudioCat Pro Studio Coffee Lake 8086k 32gb RAM  RME UFX (Audio) Tascam FW-1884 (Control) in Win 10x64 Pro
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/27 14:41:29
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DeeringAmps
Danny,
I can verify that ARC 1.3.1 works FINE in X2a on my x32 and x64 systems.
It is always "ON" when I launch a project. No crashes!
If it were me I would:
1. Image my system
2. Copy my ARC correction files to a safe place (C:\Users\your name\Documents\IK Multimedia\ARC System\Filters) they are name.arc probably wouldn't hurt to backup the .arc2 files as well.
3. uninstall ARC 1.1.1
4. install ARC 1.3.1
5. Copy your back up .arc files in the "Filters" folder.
6. Launch and test.
I'm seeing "issues" with some of the IK plugs, I "think" any that are not x64 capable are problematic in X2. SVX and the CSR reverbs so far. IIRC ARC 1.1.1 is not x64, right?
Haven't tried any of the VSTi's yet...
T
Hi Tom, thanks for the reply. I think I need to just make a video of what I'm seeing because I can't seem to explain it right. LOL! I've tested every version of ARC that is available...here's what I've come up with. ARC 1 Versions 1.0 to 1.1.1: These all work perfectly in all versions of Sonar and every DAW I own except for X2. I get a crash as soon as I press play and stop playback. If it doesn't crash there, if I double click on something or even a midi track to get into piano roll, that whie faded screen comes up. I actually got a .dmp out of it today finally. Also of note, these versions hold the correction in place at all times and work perfectly. Versions 1.2 to 1.3.1: All these work in all versions of Sonar including X2a. However, the snag here is though they are all enabled and the correction is loaded, FOR ME it is not playing my actual correction. To make it work right I have to double click the instance of ARC on my bus, and you can literally see the graph move to where it then plays the correction. Most people will not notice this unless you really pay attention IF it happens on your end. I do not know if this is something everyone is experiencing, but it's VERY apparent on my end. Like...it's trying to play some sort of correction, but it's not mine. I know in an instant that THAT is not the project I mixed. LOL! What sucks about this is, if I forget to double click ARC to open it in my bus, I start messing with things thinking they need to be fixed within the project. Then it hits me....ARC isn't playing nicely, so as soon as I double click it, the correction automatically loads and then I'm fine for the duration of that project. The next time I open it though, I'll need to open every instance that is being used so it loads the correction. I don't even have to do anything other than open the plug. My correction is loaded, the plug is enabled and all looks well. It just doesn't SOUND right. ARC 2: Works perfectly in all versions of Sonar and all my DAW's. However, I just can't seem to get used to it. The bottom end is a little too tight for me and it's made me mix bass heavy because of it. The top end is a bit more sizzly too compared to ARC 1 and just sounds un-natural to me. I've done 2 pin-point accurate corrections with it and they both sound identical. I tried messing with the eq provided to take out a little 16k sizzle, but I'm still just not liking it as much as ARC 1. This also forced me to tame the highs in my guitars which in turn, sounded a little muddy and could have used a little more high end presence. So it's definitely not to my liking unfortunately. It has nothing to do with getting used to it or anything. ARC 1 just gives me a sound that I know is right without getting to know it or second guessing it. When I listen to good stuff I know sounds good using ARC 2 and it lacks low end and has a bit too much sizzle in the high end, that tells me right there it's just not right for me. I don't use 16k in my stuff to the extent that ARC 2 is throwing at me. And, I know for a fact I have nice low end in my stuff as well as commecial stuff I reference....and ARC 2 just seems a little bass light to me. So when you keep that in mind, it would be another guessing game for me with this version which is why I got the first version...to eliminate guessing at all costs. :) Shame too...it's a nice plug and does sound close to ARC 1...but it's different enough to where it's really messing up my judgement and I have too much traffic coming through here to make any mistakes. :) Thanks again for your reply. I hope some of this makes a bit more sense now. -Danny
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/27 14:50:10
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dmbaer
I don't believe that's correct. You should see any 32-bit VST as a separate application because it's a different process in a separate address space. Sonar can run 64-bit VSTs in its own address space, but it must run 32-bit VSTs (via bridging) in a separate one.
David, I've never seen anything come through as an exe that was supposed to be a plugin. I see bitbridge server come up in task manager, but never any specific plugin.exe's. You had mentioned in your post something about ARC.exe....that is the standalone that is installed for your corrections. It shouldn't be seen in task manager unless you have the correction procedure exe running. My system may be handling things differently than yours, but I've never seen a plugin come in as an exe on my end for anything when using Sonar 64....so that's why I mentioned that. :) -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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DeeringAmps
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/27 16:40:41
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Danny,
I understand exactly the issue you are experiencing.
I know we've discussed this in the past.
If I remember correctly one of the upgrade versions was causing a crash (or just not finishing?) every time you ran the measurement program.
Have you tried a "clean" 1.3.1 install?
When running 1.3.1 did you use a previous .arc file, or create a new one (I'm pretty sure you used a "new" one, but...).
Again, I'm not having any issues on my office system, Win 7x32, or the StudioCat, Win 7 x64.
On the "Cat" I'm running Sonar X1d Expanded and X2a, x32 and x64.
I know its time consuming but if/when X2 is "ready", you'll need ARC 1 running right.
ARC 2 is definitely brighter, I really haven't done any serious work since installing it.
It sounds "nice", but maybe nice isn't what we need, Audussey is a Home Theatre product.
T
Tom Deering Tascam FW-1884 User Resources Page Firewire "Legacy" Tutorial, Service Manual, Schematic, and Service Bulletins Win10x64 StudioCat Pro Studio Coffee Lake 8086k 32gb RAM RME UFX (Audio) Tascam FW-1884 (Control) in Win 10x64 Pro
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dmbaer
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/27 19:01:32
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Danny Danzi
David, I've never seen anything come through as an exe that was supposed to be a plugin. I see bitbridge server come up in task manager, but never any specific plugin.exe's. You had mentioned in your post something about ARC.exe....that is the standalone that is installed for your corrections. It shouldn't be seen in task manager unless you have the correction procedure exe running. My system may be handling things differently than yours, but I've never seen a plugin come in as an exe on my end for anything when using Sonar 64....so that's why I mentioned that. :)
-Danny
Funny. I never paid much attention to this before, but I wanted to confirm which version of ARC was running, so I looked at the task manager, which definitely labeled the application as "Arc" (and not "Bitbridge for sure) when all Sonar saw was the 32-bit version. Now I can't repeat the test because I got the 32/64-bit ARC issue sorted out (and nothing else now shows up in the task manager when I add ARC to a project). By the way, I never ran ARC.exe in any of this. My invocation of ARC was strictly as a plug-in insert into an effects bin.
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?
2012/12/27 19:17:03
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DeeringAmps
Danny,
I understand exactly the issue you are experiencing.
I know we've discussed this in the past.
If I remember correctly one of the upgrade versions was causing a crash (or just not finishing?) every time you ran the measurement program.
Have you tried a "clean" 1.3.1 install?
When running 1.3.1 did you use a previous .arc file, or create a new one (I'm pretty sure you used a "new" one, but...).
Again, I'm not having any issues on my office system, Win 7x32, or the StudioCat, Win 7 x64.
On the "Cat" I'm running Sonar X1d Expanded and X2a, x32 and x64.
I know its time consuming but if/when X2 is "ready", you'll need ARC 1 running right.
ARC 2 is definitely brighter, I really haven't done any serious work since installing it.
It sounds "nice", but maybe nice isn't what we need, Audussey is a Home Theatre product.
T
What a memory, Mr. Deering! :) That was quite impressive you remembered the correction crash! I didn't include that in my notes on this because it would have made for a longer novel and would have probably cornfused a few more people. LOL! Yeah I've tried everything that you mentioned including some of my own train-wreck ideas. I've even totally removed every IK registry item I could find after un-installing. Same issues for me whether I use Win XP or Win 7. This crash is really weird though in X2. Everything fires up, works like a champ and sounds perfect until I stop playback or double click something. What's even weirder is, when audio is playing, I can do anything I want. Double click to my hearts content! As soon as I stop playback though, that's when it crashes religiously. I read somewhere that X2 has a completely new plugin manager. I spoke with someone at Cakewalk today about this ARC issue and that was mentioned. Me and the tech I spoke with have no proof of this of course, but it could be a possibility due to things working perfectly in X1. On my "not keeping the correction" thing Tom....I think I have a good idea as to what that is. I believe it's due to using older correction files in that newer build. I've never been able to finish a correction procedure without the ARC exe crashing on me when using the newer builds. So I've stuck with my older ones. I believe I did happen to get through one correction with 1.3.0 but I left my mic hot or something and it didn't sound right so I deleted them...and the next time I tried the correction procedure, illegal operation to where I would have had to do the whole correction procedure again. As a matter of fact, my new studio had that problem. We installed 1.3.1 and ran the correction. I had not seen that version yet and figured they may have fixed the issues with the other. Sure enough, after over an hour of corrections, it crashed right before the final save of all the corrections. So we just went back to 1.1.1 and it's been on those systems ever since. As for ARC 2, yeah....I just can't trust it man. I want to....but I just hate the whole "guessing" and "compensation" thing. Have you tried it and ARC 1 side by side? Try it again if you get a minute. As you said, you too notice the additional high end in ARC 2, right? Try the HF roll-off on ARC 2 and compare it to ARC 1. It's STILL harsh and seems not to change too much considering what the graph is showing us it actually rolled off. I thought for sure that would have made a drastic difference...but, it's still not good to my ears. The closest I can come to my ARC 1 correction is by using the manual eq in ARC 2 while grouping 3 nodes together to eliminate this harsh high end I'm hearing. Even there, it STILL is more harsh and high-endy than ARC 1. It just makes my guitars and cymbals sound too razor sharp to where if I curb them, I know the sound is going to be dull...which it has when I've tried working with ARC 2. At first I thought it may have been a bad correction or something, so I redid it. I taped my floor and measured everything out like I always do to the numbers and checked that the mic wasn't bleeding back into the system. It just doesn't give me results I can trust. So...my choices are to use ARC 1 version 1.3.1 and force myself to remember to open every instance once per project, or go back to 1.1.1 and not use Sonar X2. Uggh...what a decision to have to make I tell ya. :( -Danny
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