Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?

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TraceyStudios
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2012/12/19 19:08:14 (permalink)

Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ?

Thinking of purchasing it. I treated my room (spare bedroom) with foam and saw much improvement in my mixes, however they still need work. So the foam helped, but didn't do the job. I am thinking of buying the IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2. Any reviews, feedback, was it worth the $300?  I saw one post from someone who received it and sounded like he was having issues, however he only had it one day. Any infor would be appreciated!

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    gustabo
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/19 19:23:57 (permalink)
    Lot's of talk about it has happened in the software? forum.
    I personally use it and love it but I did treat my room first.
    ARC was just icing on the cake.


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    #2
    TraceyStudios
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/19 19:29:50 (permalink)
    Gustabo - was it worth the $300? and are you happy with your mixes now. I know you said you love it, so I am thinking yes? Do you have any mixes I could hear posted somewhere?

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    #3
    gustabo
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/19 19:44:47 (permalink)
    I paid $250 a year and a half ago for v1 and $75 for the upgrade to v2 when it came out.
    My mixes translate well between car stereo, home stereo, studio, jam box, etc.
    Regarding my mixes, I would have to check with my clients first but here are a few links.
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1254745
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1750146
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1547435


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    #4
    wizard71
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/19 19:52:57 (permalink)
    I think its fantastic. My room is untreated and before i had it, it would sound great in the studio but be bass heavy and lacking in mids/highs everywhere else. Since ARC 2 i am definitely finding a what you hear on your monitors is what you hear everywhere else more or less and my mixes have improved hugely and take less than half the time (and a quarter of the test CD's) than they used to. You just need to be REALLY methodical and precise when setting it up. ARC2 is also a big improvement over ARC1.
    Worth every penny to me.

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    bapu
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/19 20:26:04 (permalink)
    gustabo


    I personally use it and love it but I did treat my room first.
    ARC was just icing on the cake.

    +1.


    It really helps my mixes, IMO.


    Am I perfect with it? No. But that is usually do to human error.
    #6
    TraceyStudios
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/19 20:49:11 (permalink)
    Gustabo - Thanks! I am just a home recording hobbyist, don't worry about the mixes. I forget that some folks are good enough at this to make money and have clients! LOL!! I do it for fun, get aggrivated alot but still love to do it.  Thanks you, wizard and bapu, I just ordered ARC System 2, will be here friday! I am excited!!!! Will let you know how it works. 

    Thanks all!!!! 

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    #7
    adeptus minor
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/20 00:03:31 (permalink)
    I absolutely love ARC. It's made mixing so much easier, especially below 300hz. The amount of clarity I can hear in my old Mackie HR824's (which are known to have a sorta flubby low-end) blows my mind.
    A recommendation, get winamp if you don't already have it, and the vst host for it here
    http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christian/programs/winamp/
    With that you can listen to music/masters/mixdowns, and still still get the room correction going on.

    Arc has helped my mix translate to other systems so much that I rarely even need to check them in other systems. A lovely piece of software.

    Mark


    #8
    Barczar
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/20 00:16:14 (permalink)
    So is this good for an untreated room?  Or do I still need some room treatment?

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    QuadCore
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/20 00:26:53 (permalink)
    I am using ARC1 with my ADAM-A7 monitors and it helps greatly in my untreated room. I also upgraded to ARC2 and have it installed - just haven't done the programming yet - It's good to hear ARC2 is even better. Now i think i'll get ARC2 done tonight!
    #10
    QuadCore
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/20 00:30:19 (permalink)
      Barczar: "So is this good for an untreated room? Or do I still need some room treatment?" ... ... ... Yes, it will do more work to improve the sound in an untreated room, but it will make a greater difference to it too. A well treated room makes it work not as hard, so the difference will not be as drastic but it will still be an improvement, so it's a win win either way. Ultimately the best result will be from ACRing an already well treated room.
    #11
    adeptus minor
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/20 01:09:53 (permalink)
    Room treatment is always good, no matter what. And like Quad says, the best results will be from a well treated room. 
    With that said, how much room treatment can you get for 300$? I plan on starting to treat this room in Jan (holidays, must spend money on other people ;) ), but from looking around it seems like 300$ would get you around 4 bass traps at most. After doing REW measurements for this room (10x20x9), I will have to spend around 1.5k or so to get it where I want it.
    For the price, I would say ARC makes a bigger difference per first 300$ spent compared to room treatment money spent, IMO. Here is a pic of the ARC2 measurements of my speakers (the orange line), and the correction afterwards (the white line)
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/28102134/arc2.JPG
    #12
    GIM Productions
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/20 03:57:58 (permalink)
    It's fantastic mix weapon!After install ARC 2 (all measures)i can hear the rev tails more detailed and in difficult kind of music prjs (incognito style)i can put the instruments in the right place more easily (ADAM,K&H).Good luck.

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    #13
    gustabo
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/20 07:08:27 (permalink)
    Room treatment, IMO, is a must and ARC is (pun-intended), icing on the cake!


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    #14
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/20 07:15:29 (permalink)
    adeptus minor


    Room treatment is always good, no matter what. And like Quad says, the best results will be from a well treated room. 
    With that said, how much room treatment can you get for 300$? I plan on starting to treat this room in Jan (holidays, must spend money on other people ;) ), but from looking around it seems like 300$ would get you around 4 bass traps at most. After doing REW measurements for this room (10x20x9), I will have to spend around 1.5k or so to get it where I want it.
    For the price, I would say ARC makes a bigger difference per first 300$ spent compared to room treatment money spent, IMO. Here is a pic of the ARC2 measurements of my speakers (the orange line), and the correction afterwards (the white line)
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/28102134/arc2.JPG


    If you're reasonably handy with a saw you can reduce that $1,500 a lot by going DIY for a lot of your treatment

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
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    #15
    Counting Coup
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/20 09:08:05 (permalink)
    I have a pretty well treated room but am still constantly surprised by ARC2. I think it's essential if you are not working in a specially designed environment. However, until they implement some sort of auto-bypass system, you have to be constantly vigilant to remove it before rendering. It's very easy to be caught out!
    #16
    GIM Productions
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/20 10:27:54 (permalink)
    Hi Counting Cup,can i help you?You can create a ARC bus.It must be the last bus of the prj just after the Master bus.In this way you can export all your prj on Master bus without worrying about forgetting ARC enabled.Best.Roby

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    #17
    Counting Coup
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/20 11:43:28 (permalink)

    Hi Gim. Good thinking batman! Let me have a play with that. 

    (Where I also get caught time again is in CD Architect, where your plugs are obscured :-) 

    However, there should be a way for it to say, "here comes a render, I should go into bypass". No?

    Thanks
    David
    #18
    TraceyStudios
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/20 15:34:03 (permalink)
    I haven't received mine yet, but reading thru the posts raised a question. Sounds like some folks are "setting up" and measuring each time they mix. Why? Is it possible to measure and save the settings and reuse them? My room doesn't change size, shape and my console, computer, speakers are stationary and shouldn't change. I understand if I rearranged the room or added large objects or treatment, I would need to setup and measure again. If I mixed last night, and stopped and the wanted to mix more today, do I need to measure again ?


    Just a thought - because home recording is so common and popular, i would think most folks (especially beginners) are using a spare room/bedroom, a non treated room / non engineered environment; may be a good upgrade / option for cakewalk to include or offer. I purchased ARC so I will never need to buy another, however if I hadn't I would def use a cakewalk version (if it existed).  I have also seen posts which show a poor man's version, using pink/white noise files and a outboard eq and instructions on how to achieve similar. the software version sounds much easier.

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    #19
    Counting Coup
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/20 15:39:32 (permalink)
    No. You only "sample" the room once; and should you change your room around, then you should do it again. You can also store multiple listening positions and areas of the room. It's all terribly well thought out: you will love it!
    #20
    TraceyStudios
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/20 15:44:44 (permalink)
    cool, i am excited. Now my mixes will be the envy of all!!!!  yeah right!! LOL! 

    thanks all for your help!

    AMD FX-6100 six-core processor 3.3GHz
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    SONAR X3 Producer
    Tascam FW1884
    Mackie Blackbird
    Presonus Digimax
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    SL Trigger
    Alesis DM8 Pro drums
    KRK Rokit 8s
    KRK 10s
    ARC2

    Folgers Dark Roast, a bit of crazy :)
    & lots of help from the forums!
     
    http://www.reverbnation.com/blakkmire
    #21
    Counting Coup
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/20 15:56:45 (permalink)
    No, you have chosen well, Grasshopper. Just dont be shocked when you first use it. I can promise you that what you hear with ARC on will frighten you to begin with. You just have to learn to trust it. Follow the setup instructions exactly. BTW Tracy, I have just installed X2a and it went very smoothly. You need have no concerns. If you do, you could image your drive first.
    #22
    garrigus
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/20 16:00:08 (permalink)
    Yep, always back up before installing new software. At least, that's what I do, just in case. I can't afford to be down and dealing with PC problems. Image the drive with Acronis True Image and you'll be all set. If something goes wrong, just restore the image and your system is back to exactly how it was before you made any changes.

    Scott

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    QuadCore
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/20 19:41:33 (permalink)
      The way i understand it, TraceyStudios, The ARC derives an impulse response of your mixing 'control room', and applies that IR in reverse to subtract your room sound from the sound you hear. Can Anyone Else Verify This Assumption? I think i even read this somewhere... So, if true, then ARC goes much further than an EQ solution can.
    #24
    bitflipper
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/20 21:38:10 (permalink)
    ...if true, then ARC goes much further than an EQ solution can.

    Like what? What kind of magic pixie dust do you think they've put in there that might allow it to do more than adjust frequency response? 

    ARC is a measuring system plus a high-resolution EQ. Its limitations are the same as any other method of EQ-based correction: it cannot correct the most common acoustical problems. It does not "take the room out of the equation", nor is it a substitute for acoustical treatment. Does it help? Sure, it does. But ARC should be considered the final touch to an already-treated room. 

    To IKM's credit, they've toned down the hype since ARC was first introduced. But go to the Audyssey site and ask yourself if your BS meter doesn't twitch a little while reading it. (Audyssey is the company that IKM licenses the ARC technology from.)



    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    #25
    QuadCore
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/20 22:51:11 (permalink)
    OK. The most obvious thing - it will take away early reflections from objects in the room. it's easy to see how EQ can do no such thing. In fact EQ has been determined to be a poor solution for fixing room problems, even in the concert hall setting. Impulse response or 'IR' created acoustic spaces ie. convolution reverb is created by creating a massive document of the reflections times from surfaces within an acoustic space. There is also a reverse process known as DEconvolution whereby the reflections within an acoustic space can be canceled out. The math has been known for ages, but only recently has the computing power to make it happen been available. Notice there is no EQing involved, but just the removal [canceling] of all those reflections and standing waves that mess with frequency response in a closed space... ... As far as i know, the ARC system uses this DEconvolution method to do its magic, instead of any sort of EQ. I have used DEconvolution to suck all the 'reflections' out of a single listening position in my studio before, and it did work according to theory, but you can't move around like you can with IK's ARC. Ok, I'll check out the Audyssey site. Thanks bitflipper.
    post edited by QuadCore - 2012/12/20 22:57:57
    #26
    Danny Danzi
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/21 00:46:03 (permalink)
    I can't speak for anyone else, but I do a lot of work from my house which has no room correction at all. ARC is all I use and it has been the best little plug investment I have ever purchased. I don't know what it's doing, I don't care what it's doing, but it's doing....and it's doing an incredible job for me. Everything I mix/master sounds as it should everywhere. I'd be lost without this plug. I use it on several monitors and have used it in several rooms with both treatment and no treatment. It has never let me down. When I do something in my home studio, it sounds exactly like it should when I bring it to my real studio. My stuff sounds good in my car, through headphones, earbuds, I'm completely happy with ARC and have both ARC 1 and ARC 2.

    My advice, if you are working out of an office or bedroom type studio, ARC should be enough for you. Me personally, I don't like that ugly room correction stuff in my home. I'd also recommend a sub to go with your near-fields and correction with ARC as well. If you have a real studio room, definitely get the right room correction and whatever else you need....then use ARC as your final weapon. It's failed for a few people that have tried it, but I've read more positive things than negative things about it...and again, I'd be lost without it.

    -Danny

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    #27
    QuadCore
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/21 01:19:36 (permalink)
      "I'd also recommend a sub to go with your near-fields and correction with ARC as well." ... ... ... ... Funny, Danny, I was just looking into getting a subwoofer yesterday at a music shop. ... I know it is real helpful for modern metal, rap, hip hop, dubstep, and so on. ... Do you think a subwoofer would help with good old fashioned rock & roll mixing?
    #28
    Danny Danzi
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/21 02:26:30 (permalink)
    QuadCore


      "I'd also recommend a sub to go with your near-fields and correction with ARC as well." ... ... ... ... Funny, Danny, I was just looking into getting a subwoofer yesterday at a music shop. ... I know it is real helpful for modern metal, rap, hip hop, dubstep, and so on. ... Do you think a subwoofer would help with good old fashioned rock & roll mixing?

    Most definitely. The thing with subs and why they aren't recommended by quite a few seasoned pros is, people over use them or don't know how to set them up properly. It can be the death of you if you're not careful. However, when you get it right, you'll wonder how you lived without it.
     
    Whenever you hear a song that is mixed bass light, 9 out of 10 times the mixer is hearing all the wrong low end out of near-fields so they over-compensate and remove way too much by high passing all the good stuff out. Some near-fields DO accentuate bass, but it's not in the right area where a sub WILL give you the right amount of kick in the right places. You just have to know where to set it in your particular room.
     
    When you hear a song that may be bass heavy, this is also because there wasn't a sub present...so people over-compensate with low end thinking their monitors really aren't putting out enough bass. Case in point...grab a pair of old NS-10's. I can't mix through them to save my life without a sub. They just have no bass response to my ears. Every mix I've ever done with them was bass heavy and muddy because everything sounded so thin with them.
     
    From there once your sub is in place, ARC does all the rest. At the worst case scenario Quad, even if you read about ARC like mad and become skeptical like so many others, the one thing it will do is flatten your monitors....which needs to be done anyway. Every known studio in the world has a guy come out that scopes their room with an analyzer. You supply the eq (usually a Rane works best in my opinion) and he sets the eq to where your monitors are sending him flat response on his read-out and you never touch that EQ setting. This alone can solve mixing problems by 75% or more. If your monitors are pushing certain frequencies that they shouldn't be, you're at an instant disadvantage no matter what type of room correction you may have installed in your place. Room correction doesn't eq/flatten monitors. To me, properly eq'd monitors are more important than any room correction you can buy.
     
    That said, rooms DO come into play with messing things up depending on your situation. But let me tell ya man, I've worked in some nasty rooms when I've been hired to work in other studio's. Quite a few didn't have any traps or anything....but old ARC helped me out and I still was able to do a great job every time. It's only failed me one time with a set of NS-10's that were not connected to a sub at the time. I ran the NS-10's through a sub, redid the correction, and they are as good as anything else I own.
     
    But yeah, definitely get a sub. Just be careful how much you use. You'll need to experiment a bit with it of course, but you should be able to dial it in within a few mixes. ARC actually curbed my sub a bit too much (and I do mean a little bit) to where I was mixing a little bass heavy at first. Nothing that was really bad, just a bit more bass than I felt I needed in my mixes. So I turned my sub up one little notch and that totally fixed my problem to where it forced me to mix a little bass lighter because the low end was being heard the way I felt it should be heard.
     
    Just remember, the key is to use it in moderation to just add a little good low sub low end to your mixes. If you can feel it or hear it, you're using too much and will probably end up mixing bass light. Hope this helps...best of luck. :)
     
    -Danny

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    QuadCore
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    Re:Anyone using IK Multimedia ARC Room Correction System 2 ? 2012/12/21 03:19:23 (permalink)
      Ya, very helpful, Danny. Thanks. Do you recommend using the 'satellite' crossover function supplied with subwoofers, and if so, what crossover point works best? Or do you recommend leaving the main monitors non-high passed? either way what do you like for crossover for the subwoofer? I know, lots of questions, but they seem like they would be important factors... I expect that if the 'wrong low end' is coming out of the monitors, then a higher crossover would help more in fixing this. On the other hand, i guess you don't want the subwoofer getting up into the low mid range either.
    post edited by QuadCore - 2012/12/21 03:25:32
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