brundlefly
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 13:13:21
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You layer sounds together to get a bigger fuller sound, and this sound is something that you can actually play, not something you can only hear on playback once you copy your midi track and assign it to another sound. Having multiple Instrument tracks (or MIDI/Audio track pairs) in SONAR will allow you to play layered synths in real time from one MIDI input. You just have to force MIDI Input Echo on for any track that does not have focus, if you are normally relying on Always Echo Current MIDI track. In Live, multiple instances of different native devices, vst's, or rewire devices can all recieve midi data from one midi track. How does Live handle sending different initial Patch/Volume/Pan/etc. settings to the different instruments?
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SH
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 13:13:58
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Although I've never used it, some instruments have a "Enable MIDI out" switch when loading. Anyway to use this to 'pass through' MIDI data to another instrument or is this intended for another purpose?
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bitflipper
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 13:16:38
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I don't think you are fully grasping the idea of an instrument layer.  Oh, I think I understand layering just fine. I've been doing it live on stage since MIDI was invented.  My point is that to implement multiple destinations for one set of data, you need to replicate all the settings in the track header, not just the device it's going to. That includes channel assignments, velocity and transposition offsets, volume and other CC automation, bank and patch selections, and so on. In effect, everything that constitutes a MIDI "track" except the data itself. It would take up just as much vertical space in the track view as a linked track does now. It would in fact BE a linked track, even if the UI disguised that reality somehow - that's what I meant by "optical illusion", just as an Instrument Track combines a MIDI and an audio track to create the illusion that it's one object. (BTW, I still use separate MIDI and audio tracks rather than Instrument Tracks, as I suspect the majority of serious MIDI folks do.)
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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adrian4u
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 13:20:47
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rbowser - I like to hear "final" voice even during recording. Or - almost final, because it creates "mood".
So - in example - I like to layer e-piano with slow attack-sustain organ pad, with some chorus and stereo delay on first and reverb on second... What's wrong with it?
Or to create landsapes with shimering, arpegiated bells, synth pad and some spices.....
I can do both on my Z1, but sometimes I go to software solutions....
:-P
Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat *************************************** Be patient for newbie ;)
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UnderTow
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 13:23:46
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rbowser
But if pieces are being assembled/produced in Sonar, there's no actual need to hear the layers during the initial playing. That's part of the production side of the recording, and is easily done with what already exists in Sonar. - Etc. ad nauseum, yaaaawn.
In electronic music the composition and the production are one and the same thing. The sound of things affects how you play/compose. That isn't only true in electronic music. Try, for instance, telling the Edge to play his guitar parts dry because you will add the delays and effects in production. I doubt he would consider that an acceptable solution. Do you get it now? And if you do, can't you just admit that copying tracks is limiting compared to being able to route MIDI freely? UnderTow
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adrian4u
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 13:28:04
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Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat *************************************** Be patient for newbie ;)
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UnderTow
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 13:35:03
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bitflipper
My point is that to implement multiple destinations for one set of data, you need to replicate all the settings in the track header, not just the device it's going to. That includes channel assignments, velocity and transposition offsets, volume and other CC automation, bank and patch selections, and so on. In effect, everything that constitutes a MIDI "track" except the data itself.
It would take up just as much vertical space in the track view as a linked track does now.
There is absolutely no reason for this to be true. The whole point is sending out exactly the same data to different tracks. Obviously you wouldn't send the patch and bank selections to the secondary outputs (although it could be an option). Actually with soft synths bank and patch select are mostly not even needed any more. (I certainly never use it). Clearly what people want is the MIDI on/off messages, the mod_wheel data, velocity etc. Synth automation can be done on the instrument track associated with the synth. Just add another output to the track header like a send in an audio track. That is all that is needed from a GUI point of view. Why is this so incredibly hard for people to understand? UnderTow
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kb420
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 13:35:39
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brundlefly
You layer sounds together to get a bigger fuller sound, and this sound is something that you can actually play, not something you can only hear on playback once you copy your midi track and assign it to another sound.
Having multiple Instrument tracks (or MIDI/Audio track pairs) in SONAR will allow you to play layered synths in real time from one MIDI input. You just have to force MIDI Input Echo on for any track that does not have focus, if you are normally relying on Always Echo Current MIDI track.
In Live, multiple instances of different native devices, vst's, or rewire devices can all recieve midi data from one midi track.
How does Live handle sending different initial Patch/Volume/Pan/etc. settings to the different instruments?
Each instrument has it's own Instrument Track. So, let's say you create a midi track and name it "Midi Track 1". All you have to do is set the midi input from each instrument track to "Midi Track 1". Patch/Volume/Pan/ etc. are all handled by the individual Instrument Tracks, but all of the midi data (notes, automation, etc) is coming from "Midi Track 1".
"Now, excuse me while I jump into my Jaguar; I need to board my private jet for the usual weekend trip to my mansion on the Big Island. I think Trixie, Crystal, and Heather are already there...must not keep them waiting in the hot tub!" -Craig Anderton-
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rbowser
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 13:36:58
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Are people drunk on this thread? So much obnoxious energy - don't know why I'm writing again really.
We all are talking about what is important to Us - that's all any of us can ever talk about with authority really. I am saying that to hear multiple sounds as I work on music is of Zero importance to me. I know a lot of people want to get caught up in the sound they'll end up with and it helps them, just like a lot of singers stay inhibited until they can hear reverb as they sing. That's all fine - but none of that is important to me.
With my work, I'm primarily interested in the notes themselves, the actual composition. Then there's a whole new fun part of the process when I choose instruments and sounds to play what I started with on just piano. I'll sometimes audition instruments for a very long time - playing the original data. What I composed wasn't dependent on a certain sound - it's very flexible, up until the time I put the piece to rest. Trying out various sounds and instruments and layering them in multiple ways after the notes themselves are composed is, for me, one of the great joys of MIDI.
I understand many other people work in totally different ways. I'm talking about what works for me. I've done the virtual MIDI cable thing, experimented with hearing multiple sources at once - it's not what I need. I find it limiting rather than liberating.
The rest of you, try Brundle's info in post #61. People who are mostly interested in sound stacking/layering should try that out.
Unsubscribing from yet another circular argument and pretty much pointless thread.
Randy B.
Sonar X3e Studio Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller Alesis i|O2 interface Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz 8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64 with dual monitors
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Plazma
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 13:48:23
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70 synths!! Whoa....
I only have a few synths, but they are neatly grouped into folders with names like "Best Synths" and "Samplers" and so forth.
My FX are in folders with names like "Delays" and "Compressors".
But are you really serious about 70 synths?? It seems obvious that you would need to do some housekeeping, man. I cannot imagine how any DAW would organize those for you.
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kb420
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 13:49:44
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rbowser, I wasn't trying to be obnoxious at all, and I apologize if you think I came off like that. If Sonar's implementation works for you, than that's a good thing. I don't like the way Sonar works at all. I like the way that Live works better because I can layer sounds before and after I compose midi data, and I can do it with Live's own instruments, rewire devices, vst's, and hardware instruments. Live allows me to do this in more than one way too. I can do it all in an Instrument Rack or just simply create a midi track, and add all the other synths I want and set their inputs to that midi track.
post edited by kb420 - 2011/03/28 13:50:58
"Now, excuse me while I jump into my Jaguar; I need to board my private jet for the usual weekend trip to my mansion on the Big Island. I think Trixie, Crystal, and Heather are already there...must not keep them waiting in the hot tub!" -Craig Anderton-
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UnderTow
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 13:50:42
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rbowser
Are people drunk on this thread? So much obnoxious energy
Your original post was condescending and dismissive of different workflows. Don't you get that? I would indeed call it obnoxious. but none of that is important to me.
And that is exactly the whole problem. Why are you even posting here? This would be like me joining a discussion about enhancements to the notation view and telling people that I don't need any of that so it is unimportant and that the way Cakewalk deals with MIDI data in the PRV is just fine and not at all limiting and, and I quote, "Many see it as a problem I see it as a very simple thing to do. ". That would be a really stupid thing to do. I'm talking about what works for me.
But this is not a thread about you. It is a thread about layering several virtual instruments. And the original post was very clear to what the OP wanted to achieve but John, as usual, didn't get it and then people started piling on agreeing with his misguided post. You added insult to injury by being condescending to the OP assuming he didn't understand things when it is clearly people like you and John that demonstrated a very limited vision. The rest of you, try Brundle's info in post #61. People who are mostly interested in sound stacking/layering should try that out.
That works for some things, not for data editing as I have already pointed out and demonstrated with a video. Unsubscribing from yet another circular argument and pretty much pointless thread.
You are indeed going around in circles but that is because you are not man enough to admit that you are and were wrong. UnderTow
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brundlefly
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 13:59:24
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kb420
brundlefly
You layer sounds together to get a bigger fuller sound, and this sound is something that you can actually play, not something you can only hear on playback once you copy your midi track and assign it to another sound.
Having multiple Instrument tracks (or MIDI/Audio track pairs) in SONAR will allow you to play layered synths in real time from one MIDI input. You just have to force MIDI Input Echo on for any track that does not have focus, if you are normally relying on Always Echo Current MIDI track.
In Live, multiple instances of different native devices, vst's, or rewire devices can all recieve midi data from one midi track.
How does Live handle sending different initial Patch/Volume/Pan/etc. settings to the different instruments?
Each instrument has it's own Instrument Track. So, let's say you create a midi track and name it "Midi Track 1". All you have to do is set the midi input from each instrument track to "Midi Track 1". Patch/Volume/Pan/ etc. are all handled by the individual Instrument Tracks, but all of the midi data (notes, automation, etc) is coming from "Midi Track 1".
So in Live you need two instrument tracks and a separate MIDI track to layer two sounds? I don't see how this is a significant improvement over two instrument tracks recording and echoing the same MIDI input in SONAR. The whole discussion seems mostly about the desire for a "different" approach that is not clearly "better". Patch, Volume and Pan settings are MIDI data (though Volume and Pan can also be controlled on the Audio side), so you still have multiple sources of MIDI to keep track of in Live; it's just arranged differently.
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adrian4u
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 14:08:17
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OK, tested:
- midiyoke doesn't work with 64bit system
- LoopBe - PERFECTLY WORKS with 64bit system
- don't forget, that you can link softsynth using "Add Soft Synth" and in property page check the box (left column, on the bottom) "allow MIDI OUTPUT".
Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat *************************************** Be patient for newbie ;)
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kb420
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 14:14:01
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@ brundlefly, I think you are misunderstanding me. A photo is worth a thousand words. 
post edited by kb420 - 2011/03/28 14:48:25
"Now, excuse me while I jump into my Jaguar; I need to board my private jet for the usual weekend trip to my mansion on the Big Island. I think Trixie, Crystal, and Heather are already there...must not keep them waiting in the hot tub!" -Craig Anderton-
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UnderTow
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 14:16:31
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brundlefly
So in Live you need two instrument tracks and a separate MIDI track to layer two sounds? I don't see how this is a significant improvement over two instrument tracks recording and echoing the same MIDI input in SONAR.
I personally don't like or use instrument tracks much but anyway the point is about having a single MIDI track. Especially for editing. The whole discussion seems mostly about the desire for a "different" approach that is not clearly "better".
Well isn't it always about different approaches? But even besides that, it really boggles my mind that people don't see how this can be much more efficient and elegant. A single MIDI track to edit, or change things like transpose or the arpeggiator or solo or mute or whatever... Here is a simple example: You have a nice note sequence going triggering the arpeggiator but you want to change the swing setting to see how it affects the groove of your song. Now imagine having 3 or 4 instruments constituting a layered sound. With a single MIDI track feeding them, you just turn the swing knob until it has just the right groove. How would you do that with 4 MIDI tracks? You could painstakingly adjust each in time but not only would it take much much longer but you might never find the exact swing sweet spot because you can't adjust all your layers in one go. Patch, Volume and Pan settings are MIDI data (though Volume and Pan can also be controlled on the Audio side), so you still have multiple sources of MIDI to keep track of in Live; it's just arranged differently.
Yes of course. The same argument foes for most DAW functionality. It is perfectly possible to edit all your MIDI data in the event list yet I don't see much clamour for getting rid of the PRV. It is all about ease of use and flexibility and how that helps us to be creative. UnderTow
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m.letcher
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 14:25:57
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I kind of hate to point this out, but what you want is trivial to do in FL Studio, which uses 'layers' for exactly this kind of thing rather than showing overlapping clips. Seems pretty trivial. Multiple midi sends would be a reasonable alternative, though midi chaining would probably work OK (like a midi thru). Chaining would have issues with arps, etc. which is why midi sends (plural) is better. A base track which could set the MFX, arp, etc and then be sent to other midi tracks would be nice though.
Using "Insert Track Template/Soft Synths" makes getting a track for the cut/paste midi data option somewhat simpler when replicating tracks.
For playing multiple synths from a controller, just enable the 'input echo' ( or record) on desired instruments.
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UnderTow
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 14:27:06
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adrian4u
OK, tested:
- midiyoke doesn't work with 64bit system
Ok that confirms my findings. - LoopBe - PERFECTLY WORKS with 64bit system
Hmmm... I'll need to retest this as it was giving me issues. EDIT: After a reboot it works and allows more than one destination. Hurray! UnderTow
post edited by UnderTow - 2011/03/28 15:00:03
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brundlefly
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 14:31:48
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frankandfree
... even more versatile - MIDI send routing. But strange enough I've seen that many people on this forum don't like either concept. I have seen this same discussion before on this board and am once more astonished that such a simple request for a rather common task gets any resentment. It wouldn't hinder anyone using multiple tracks like before, so you wouldn't even notice it's there. It would just make life easier for some. I'm okay with it, so long as I don't have to see superfluous options for it when setting up tracks. In this respect, I think a Send-style implementation would be the lest disruptive and the most intuitive because of its similarity to audio sends. My greatest concern is that implementing any of this diverts valuable development time from fixing bugs in existing features, and has the potential to introduce more bugs and even break things that are currently working correctly. If there were no viable alternative, I'd be more supportive. But as I see it, you just use multiple MIDI/Instrument tracks to record, and if you decide later that you want to edit the MIDI, you delete one of the clips, and make a linked copy of the other. I do it all the time. In the grand scheme of how long it takes to compose, record, edit and mix tracks, it's not a significant obstacle to workflow.
post edited by brundlefly - 2011/03/28 14:34:07
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UnderTow
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 14:43:25
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brundlefly
I'm okay with it, so long as I don't have to see superfluous options for it when setting up tracks. In this respect, I think a Send-style implementation would be the lest disruptive and the most intuitive because of its similarity to audio sends.
That is indeed the approach that seems most obvious to me too. My greatest concern is that implementing any of this diverts valuable development time from fixing bugs in existing features, and has the potential to introduce more bugs and even break things that are currently working correctly.
I'm all for fixing bugs first! But any new feature has the potential to introduce new bugs. That shouldn't ever be a reason not to add functionality. This comment doesn't say much for our confidence in Cakewalk to be able to add functionality to Sonar. Unfortunately the lack of confidence has legitimate reasons... :-( If there were no viable alternative, I'd be more supportive. But as I see it, you just use multiple MIDI/Instrument tracks to record, and if you decide later that you want to edit the MIDI, you delete one of the clips, and make a linked copy of the other. I do it all the time. In the grand scheme of how long it takes to compose, record, edit and mix tracks, it's not a significant obstacle to workflow.
Fair enough. I have two approaches for adding MIDI data: Recording played notes from various keyboards; Adding notes direclty in the PRV with the mouse. For the later, having one source controlling multiple destinations would be much more elegant. UnderTow
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 14:55:30
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This (link below) is the first thing I thought of when reading the thread title. Is there any reason this won't work? A downside is that there will be more than one MIDI track after recording but to hear the layered sounds for auditioning it seems to fit the bill. I've tried it and it's as easy as it looks. http://www.cakewalk.com/S...reader.aspx/2007013199
post edited by HumbleNoise - 2011/03/28 15:07:06
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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kb420
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 15:00:53
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My greatest concern is that implementing any of this diverts valuable development time from fixing bugs in existing features, and has the potential to introduce more bugs and even break things that are currently working correctly.
If there were no viable alternative, I'd be more supportive. But as I see it, you just use multiple MIDI/Instrument tracks to record, and if you decide later that you want to edit the MIDI, you delete one of the clips, and make a linked copy of the other. I do it all the time. In the grand scheme of how long it takes to compose, record, edit and mix tracks, it's not a significant obstacle to workflow.
Wow! I could care less how Cakewalk "diverts valuable development time". I think that's the most ridiculous thing I have ever read in a forum. Are you serious? I understand if you don't think it's a "significant obstacle to workflow", but to some it is. Personally, I think it is, but that's why I compose midi in Live.
"Now, excuse me while I jump into my Jaguar; I need to board my private jet for the usual weekend trip to my mansion on the Big Island. I think Trixie, Crystal, and Heather are already there...must not keep them waiting in the hot tub!" -Craig Anderton-
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 15:06:44
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kb420, did you check the link above? Would that work to layer synths?
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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kb420
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 15:08:37
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HumbleNoise
This is the first thing I thought of when reading the thread title. Is there any reason this won't work? A downside is that there will be more than one MIDI track after recording but to hear the layered sounds for auditioning it seems to fit the bill. I've tried it and it's as easy as it looks.
http://www.cakewalk.com/S...reader.aspx/2007013199
That will do the trick, but if you have to edit midi data after recording, you are stuck with the extra steps of applying the edits to each midi track. In that example, you are only dealing with two midi tracks. What if you are using four or more layers???? It gets to be a little more of a pain then. I consider that solution to be a workaround, and not truly what the OP wanted. For as long as Sonar has been around, you would think that at some point the bakers would have given it more flexible midi routing. It really doesn't seem like that big of a deal until you realize that other DAW's have had that feature for years now. If you take a look at this photo you will see that there truly is just one midi track that feeds four different devices including a hardware workstation.
post edited by kb420 - 2011/03/28 15:11:56
"Now, excuse me while I jump into my Jaguar; I need to board my private jet for the usual weekend trip to my mansion on the Big Island. I think Trixie, Crystal, and Heather are already there...must not keep them waiting in the hot tub!" -Craig Anderton-
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 15:11:59
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Yeah the multi MIDI tracks would be more work but one COULD at least audition various layers if a user wanted to stay within Sonar. I actually thought this was something every DAW could/should do by default. Saw your pic before and agree that's pretty slick and that would open some huge creative possibilities. I've only got Sonar and probably won't make time nor spend the energy to learn another DAW so I'll use Sonar as it exists but understand the need for such a feature.
post edited by HumbleNoise - 2011/03/28 15:14:36
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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kb420
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 15:20:17
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HumbleNoise
Yeah the multi MIDI tracks would be more work but one COULD at least audition various layers if a user wanted to stay within Sonar. I actually thought this was something every DAW could/should do by default.
Yes, you are right. It COULD be done, but it just seems to be somewhat cumbersome compared to some other sequencers. As a matter of fact, it seems cumbersome anyway. There was a time when I used nothing but hardware, and my MPC 3000 was my sequencer. If I wanted to layer my old 01R/W with a sound from my ASR 10, I only needed one midi track on the MPC 3000. That was back in the mid '90's. Do you really mean that in the year 2011, I need two midi tracks to do that same simple task with a few virtual instruments on my super fast futuristic George Jetson quad core computer running Sonar?????? 
post edited by kb420 - 2011/03/28 15:21:40
"Now, excuse me while I jump into my Jaguar; I need to board my private jet for the usual weekend trip to my mansion on the Big Island. I think Trixie, Crystal, and Heather are already there...must not keep them waiting in the hot tub!" -Craig Anderton-
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Susan G
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 15:29:41
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Hi Mark- I kind of hate to point this out, but what you want is trivial to do in FL Studio, which uses 'layers' for exactly this kind of thing rather than showing overlapping clips. Yes, and the new Patcher in the current FL betas makes this even easier. REAPER also lets you send MIDI (live input or recorded) to any number of other tracks, in addition to letting you stack multiple synths in a single track. -Susan
2.30 gigahertz Intel Core i7-3610QM; 16 GB RAMWindows 10 x64; NI Komplete Audio 6.SONAR Platinum (Lexington) x64
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m.letcher
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 15:34:53
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After a little thought, it occurred to me that perhaps, Track Folders would serve for this purpose. But apparently not. I don't see how to attach midi track data to the folder that could then drive the track's within that folder. But that is kind of one way to address this within folder. Define a "MIDI Folder" like a Midi track, but with subfolders holding different instruments.
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 15:39:56
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I also had a thought about the Step Sequencer too. If you could assign a different Synth to each note or multiple notes that could get wild and fun in a hurry - limited but the amount of steps but interesting I'd bet.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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kb420
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Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?
2011/03/28 15:49:22
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Susan G
Hi Mark-
I kind of hate to point this out, but what you want is trivial to do in FL Studio, which uses 'layers' for exactly this kind of thing rather than showing overlapping clips.
Yes, and the new Patcher in the current FL betas makes this even easier. REAPER also lets you send MIDI (live input or recorded) to any number of other tracks, in addition to letting you stack multiple synths in a single track.
-Susan
It's really no big deal at all for other sequencers. It's just a big deal in Sonar. In Live you can do it the way that I showed earlier in the photo, but it's actually a lot easier just using an Instrument Rack. In an Instrument Rack you can stack multiple native synths, vst's and rewire devices in a single track. For a company that prides itself on being on the cutting edge of technology, it sure is behind the times with some basic features. Sonar was one of the first programs to use a 64 bit floating point audio engine, and one of the first to embrace 64 bit operating systems, but they were dead last in simple features like input quantize which wasn't included until version 6.2.1, and you still have no way of sending one midi track to multiple synths.
"Now, excuse me while I jump into my Jaguar; I need to board my private jet for the usual weekend trip to my mansion on the Big Island. I think Trixie, Crystal, and Heather are already there...must not keep them waiting in the hot tub!" -Craig Anderton-
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