Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments?

Page: < 12345 > Showing page 4 of 5
Author
UnderTow
Max Output Level: -37 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3848
  • Joined: 2004/01/06 12:13:49
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/28 16:00:19 (permalink)
HumbleNoise


I also had a thought about the Step Sequencer too.
Indeed. Just like the arppegiator, the sequencer is yet another example of why having multiple MIDI outputs would be better than copying or cloning tracks.
If you could assign a different Synth to each note or multiple notes that could get wild and fun in a hurry - limited but the amount of steps but interesting I'd bet.
:-)

UnderTow
#91
adrian4u
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 568
  • Joined: 2010/12/07 19:07:11
  • Location: Poland
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/28 16:02:52 (permalink)
gong back to topic - during checking multiple "returns" for 2-3 or more synths from one miditrack I "discovered" that when dialog box appears when you adding VST synth, there is a checkbox with "ADD MIDI OUTPUT" or something sililad.

And checking this - you have MIDI OUTPUT from your softsynth, so it seems to be possible to link one synth to another, like linking MIDI OUT from one hardware synth to MIDI IN to second (third, fourth... etc) hardware synth...

Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat 
***************************************
Be patient for newbie ;)
#92
UnderTow
Max Output Level: -37 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3848
  • Joined: 2004/01/06 12:13:49
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/28 16:06:23 (permalink)
adrian4u


gong back to topic - during checking multiple "returns" for 2-3 or more synths from one miditrack I "discovered" that when dialog box appears when you adding VST synth, there is a checkbox with "ADD MIDI OUTPUT" or something sililad.

And checking this - you have MIDI OUTPUT from your softsynth, so it seems to be possible to link one synth to another, like linking MIDI OUT from one hardware synth to MIDI IN to second (third, fourth... etc) hardware synth...
I could be wrong but I believe this is for plugins that generate MIDI output themselves. Like Groove Agent.

UnderTow


#93
adrian4u
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 568
  • Joined: 2010/12/07 19:07:11
  • Location: Poland
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/28 16:17:57 (permalink)
It could be great if you'll check this out, bro.
It's evening here and my girlfriend starts to bea little bit jealous, because of my sitting here, not with her 

Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat 
***************************************
Be patient for newbie ;)
#94
UnderTow
Max Output Level: -37 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3848
  • Joined: 2004/01/06 12:13:49
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/28 16:46:45 (permalink)
adrian4u


It could be great if you'll check this out, bro.
It's evening here and my girlfriend starts to bea little bit jealous, because of my sitting here, not with her 
Yes it is for Synths that generate MIDI. Well maybe there are some synths that have a way to enable MIDI through, but none of the ones I use have that option as far as I know. (It shouldn't be too hard for a synth developer to add this but it would not make much sense for most synths).

From the Manual:

Soft synth MIDI output support
Some soft synths produce MIDI output as well as audio output. You can now record the MIDI output
of both VST and DirectX instruments that have this feature.
Recording a soft synth’s MIDI output
SONAR allows you to record the MIDI output of a synth onto another MIDI track in your project. This
can be convenient if your synth creates arpeggios, drum patterns, or other MIDI data that you wish
to edit as a MIDI clip.
To enable MIDI outputs on a synth
• When inserting a synth from the Insert menu or the Synth Rack, check the Enable MIDI Output
check box in the Insert Soft Synth Options dialog box.
The soft synth will now appear as an Input option on all MIDI tracks just like any hardware inputs.
To hear a soft synth’s MIDI output through another track
1. Verify that Enable MIDI Output is enabled for the synth whose MIDI output you wish to hear
through another track.
2. On a new MIDI track in your project, set the Input to the synth whose MIDI output you wish to
hear.
3. Set the Output of that track to another synth or MIDI output used in your project and enable
Input Echo.
4. Play some MIDI data through the synth whose MIDI Output has been enabled.
The MIDI data sent from that synth will be echoed through the Output of the new MIDI track.
To record a soft synth’s MIDI output to a track
1. Verify that Enable MIDI Output is enabled for the synth whose MIDI output you wish to record.
2. On a new MIDI track in your project, set the Input to the synth whose MIDI output you wish to
record and arm the track.
3. Click the Record button to start recording.
4. If you’re recording live MIDI input through the synth, place track focus on the synth’s MIDI track
and begin playing your MIDI controller. If you’re recording pre-existing MIDI data through the
synth, record through the duration of the pre-existing clips.
The MIDI Output of the synth will be recorded to the new MIDI track. You can then edit the MIDI data
and route it to a different MIDI output as you see fit.
Note: Be careful to avoid creating a MIDI feedback loop. To prevent this, make sure the Input of
a soft synth’s MIDI track is not set to the same synth’s Output.

That's it.

Now go back to your girl friend or explain to her the risks of having an artistic type as a partner.

UnderTow
#95
adrian4u
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 568
  • Joined: 2010/12/07 19:07:11
  • Location: Poland
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/28 17:04:30 (permalink)
try to explain it by yourself - I just hear about "those internet wh*res & bit***ches !!!!"



Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat 
***************************************
Be patient for newbie ;)
#96
backwoods
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2571
  • Joined: 2011/03/23 17:24:50
  • Location: South Pacific
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/28 17:25:52 (permalink)
Hi adrian4u,

this is OT but seeing you are Polish and using a Korg I couldn't resist. Check out this video and notice the keyboard this fellow (yes, he is also Polish) is playing. Pretty cool huh?

On topic- my reading of the forum suggests to me to never disagree with Underotw so plus one to whatever he is stating!


Forgot to reference clip!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaIA7zKzWlE
post edited by backwoods - 2011/03/28 17:30:56
#97
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
  • Total Posts : 26036
  • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
  • Location: Everett, WA USA
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/28 18:25:02 (permalink)
kb420

If you take a look at this photo you will see that there truly is just one midi track that feeds four different devices including a hardware workstation.




Question: how do you go about automating parameters independently for each layer without having a separate track (or automation lane or whatever you want to call it) for each layer?

I have a hard time imagining a MIDI "send" that's analogous to an aux send as suggested earlier, simply because a MIDI data stream is usually much more than just a string of notes.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

My Stuff
#98
UnderTow
Max Output Level: -37 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3848
  • Joined: 2004/01/06 12:13:49
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/28 18:42:32 (permalink)
bitflipper


Question: how do you go about automating parameters independently for each layer without having a separate track (or automation lane or whatever you want to call it) for each layer?
In Sonar you could automate anything specific to any layer on the First Synth Audio Track (The default in Sonar). That is how I do it now for single instruments anyway as I want it separate from the MIDI data.
I have a hard time imagining a MIDI "send" that's analogous to an aux send as suggested earlier, simply because a MIDI data stream is usually much more than just a string of notes.
Any musical information like note values, note on/off, note velocity, pitch bend etc you want identical to all destinations and anything else you probably don't want at all. What is there "much more" that you would want to be different on different layers that belongs on a MIDI track?

UnderTow
#99
HumbleNoise
Max Output Level: -46 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2946
  • Joined: 2004/01/04 12:53:50
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/28 19:07:14 (permalink)
Please indulge me for a minute. I know that it would be better to have MIDI data sent to more than one instrument like many other DAW's do today, and this comment is not intended to claim this is a great feature of Sonar nor that Cakewalk should not create a new feature set that includes the desires of the posters in this thread (Whew).

BUT if you wanted to use the features that now exist in Sonar you COULD use the technique described HERE to audition layers of synths, record to multiple MIDI tracks, create linked clips of those MIDI tracks, hide all but one and do all your editing in that single MIDI track.

Yes, it's inelegant. Yes it's a bit clumsy etc. etc. I'm just sayin' you COULD do it with Sonar.

Humbly Yours

Larry

Sonar X2 x64
MAudio 2496
Yamaha MG 12/4
Roland XV-88
Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram
NVidia 9800 GTX
Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
Brandon Ryan [Roland]
Max Output Level: -40.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3458
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 03:29:12
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/28 19:15:21 (permalink)
HumbleNoise


BUT if you wanted to use the features that now exist in Sonar you COULD use the technique described HERE to audition layers of synths, record to multiple MIDI tracks, create linked clips of those MIDI tracks, hide all but one and do all your editing in that single MIDI track.

Yes, it's inelegant. Yes it's a bit clumsy etc. etc. I'm just sayin' you COULD do it with Sonar.


And I'd argue that it's really not that clumsy. This is what I do. I make stacks out of multiple VI's and put them in a folder. Then I just hit record on the folder and all data records to each track and plays back on the whole stack. I often save Track Templates of these stacks/layers for easy recall.

And there are advantages to having separate tracks in that you can alter a part or the arrangement of the stacked synths much easier than if they are all on one track feeding multiple synths. And you might be more apt to do it if it's already seperated out.

Not saying it wouldn't be a nice thing in SONAR to have, but for me it's always been easy, and sometimes beneficial, to just monitor and record through multiple tracks at once. Folders make it even easier.

"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG

SONAR Platinum | VS-700 | A-800 PRO | PCAL i7 with SSD running Windows 8 x64 | Samsung 27" LCD @ 1920x1080 | Blue Sky monitors with BMC | All kinds of other stuff
HumbleNoise
Max Output Level: -46 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2946
  • Joined: 2004/01/04 12:53:50
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/28 19:37:34 (permalink)
I actually agree Brandon that it's pretty darn easy to do and pretty flexible having multiple MIDI tracks BUT you do have to edit multiple MIDI tracks unless you link the clips - or even some clips and leave others unlinked. I think it's one of those things that after you do it a couple of times it really may not be that clumsy.

Humbly Yours

Larry

Sonar X2 x64
MAudio 2496
Yamaha MG 12/4
Roland XV-88
Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram
NVidia 9800 GTX
Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
kb420
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1839
  • Joined: 2004/04/03 18:27:44
  • Location: Philadelphia PA
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/28 19:57:42 (permalink)
bitflipper


kb420

If you take a look at this photo you will see that there truly is just one midi track that feeds four different devices including a hardware workstation.




Question: how do you go about automating parameters independently for each layer without having a separate track (or automation lane or whatever you want to call it) for each layer?

I have a hard time imagining a MIDI "send" that's analogous to an aux send as suggested earlier, simply because a MIDI data stream is usually much more than just a string of notes.

If you create your layer the way that I showed in the picture,  then,  no,  you can't automate parameters independently for each layer without having a separate track.   If,  however,  you create your layer by using Live's Instrument Rack,  you can automate parameters independently for each layer without having a separate midi track.   All you have to do is configure Live to see whatever parameter you want to automate,  and then record it's automation or open it's automation lane and draw it in.   I'll post a picture to demonstrate.  


I will admit that it's not possible to automate REWIRE devices' parameters this way,  but Live's native instruments and vst's are possible.

"Now, excuse me while I jump into my Jaguar; I need to board my private jet for the usual weekend trip to my mansion on the Big Island. I think Trixie, Crystal, and Heather are already there...must not keep them waiting in the hot tub!"
 
-Craig Anderton-
UnderTow
Max Output Level: -37 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3848
  • Joined: 2004/01/06 12:13:49
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/28 20:01:44 (permalink)
HumbleNoise

BUT if you wanted to use the features that now exist in Sonar you COULD use the technique described HERE to audition layers of synths, record to multiple MIDI tracks, create linked clips of those MIDI tracks, hide all but one and do all your editing in that single MIDI track.
Yes certainly. Or use LoopBe1: http://nerds.de/en/loopbe1.html Not a perfect solution either but definitely a solution.

UnderTow
kb420
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1839
  • Joined: 2004/04/03 18:27:44
  • Location: Philadelphia PA
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/28 20:25:21 (permalink)
@bitflipper

If you take a look at this photo which I won't hotlink because it's too large,  you will see that I have created a Instrument Rack with Operator,  Dimension Pro,  Rapture,  and a Reason Combinator.

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1310/automation1.jpg

If you take a look at this photo you will see that all of the devices in the rack show up.   The first two are Operator.  The next two are Rapture.  The next one is Dimension Pro,  which only shows up once because I didn't configure it's parameters for Automation,  and the last two External Instruments are the Reason Combinator whose parameters really can't be automated in a rack.





http://img222.imageshack....27/envelopeoptions.png


This last photo just shows that it is Rapture's Filter 1 cutoff that's being automated in this example.





http://img98.imageshack.u...1/envelopefillter1.jpg
post edited by kb420 - 2011/03/28 20:31:23

"Now, excuse me while I jump into my Jaguar; I need to board my private jet for the usual weekend trip to my mansion on the Big Island. I think Trixie, Crystal, and Heather are already there...must not keep them waiting in the hot tub!"
 
-Craig Anderton-
A1MixMan
Max Output Level: -58 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1706
  • Joined: 2003/11/19 16:15:11
  • Location: SunriseStudios
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/28 21:05:34 (permalink)
Does ANYONE in this thread own Kore 2?


A1
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 14250
  • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
  • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/29 00:06:11 (permalink)
Does ANYONE in this thread own Kore 2?

 
If I understand your intent, that presumes that the instruments you want to layer are all sample-based with samples in an accessible format. Not always the case.
adrian4u
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 568
  • Joined: 2010/12/07 19:07:11
  • Location: Poland
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/29 16:12:05 (permalink)
backwoods


Hi adrian4u,

this is OT but seeing you are Polish and using a Korg I couldn't resist. Check out this video and notice the keyboard this fellow (yes, he is also Polish) is playing. Pretty cool huh?

Forgot to reference clip!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaIA7zKzWlE

I don't get the clue :-P
but you're right - I am a Polish, and I use some Korgs in my studio. In a fact there are/were more of Korggs: padKONTROL (the best pad controller ever); nanoKONTROL.....
 
And if you look for great keyboardist and sound freak - look at YT and find demo movies made by WC Olo Garb. He's a really FREAK and he realy shows, what a man can do with machine.

Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat 
***************************************
Be patient for newbie ;)
adrian4u
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 568
  • Joined: 2010/12/07 19:07:11
  • Location: Poland
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/29 16:17:32 (permalink)
A1MixMan


Does ANYONE in this thread own Kore 2?

Me. But I'm not a PRO USER of Kore2 ;-)
 
Another software that allows to layer VST synths and EFX is:
- Steinberg V-Stack
- ghmm - second one - I forgot name, but I will try to find :)

Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat 
***************************************
Be patient for newbie ;)
cornieleous
Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 809
  • Joined: 2004/11/04 03:17:18
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/29 21:55:52 (permalink)
UnderTow


rbowser


John


You want two softsynths to have the same input. In Sonar you will need to copy/clone the MID track and have the two out to the two synths.

Many see it as a problem I see it as a very simple thing to do.


+ many Ones.

This is MIDI 101 stuff -
- Infinity.

Sorry but it is NOT MIDI 101 by any stretch of the imagination. It is much better if you can route a single MIDI track to multiple outputs so that you hear all the layers when you play a keyboard (or MIDI guitar or whatever controller)! Also, when you edit the single MIDI track, you instantly hear what you are doing on all the layers. Having to copy after each edit is cumbersome, slow and inelegant. There is no reason to assume you are only editing a single clip or adding new notes to an existing clip so the Copy as Linked Clips idea just doesn't work.

Anyway, what is wrong with you guys? Would you really prefer that Cakewalk not add such a feature? Stop arguing against feature suggestions. It is ridiculous!

UnderTow


Finally someone who gets it. All these replies suggesting copied tracks are adequate imply to me that those people don't actually design sounds. Who wants to clumsily move midi clips around and clone tracks, deal with multiple tracks while you are still working on a sound or a track? Cakewalk is way behind on routing - that simple.

By the way, for the OP a MUCH cheaper and better way to do this than Kore is to find a free chainer plugin. You can find a few with this capability by searching over at KVRAudio. I have been using energyXT 1.4 in modular mode to do this elegantly for years.

D


cornieleous
Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 809
  • Joined: 2004/11/04 03:17:18
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/29 22:06:12 (permalink)
HumbleNoise


This (link below) is the first thing I thought of when reading the thread title. Is there any reason this won't work? A downside is that there will be more than one MIDI track after recording but to hear the layered sounds for auditioning it seems to fit the bill. I've tried it and it's as easy as it looks.

http://www.cakewalk.com/S...reader.aspx/2007013199


That does work ok, but if you add to the layer you have to go set up that track, plus when you navigate to another track no on the layer, you then have to go click all those input echo buttons off.

Its a nice thought, but another workaround. Also this method doesn't play nice with arpeggiator or midi fx.
kb420
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1839
  • Joined: 2004/04/03 18:27:44
  • Location: Philadelphia PA
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/29 22:09:08 (permalink)
Sonar just doesn't do a really good job when it comes to sound design.  It's simply not set up for it.

"Now, excuse me while I jump into my Jaguar; I need to board my private jet for the usual weekend trip to my mansion on the Big Island. I think Trixie, Crystal, and Heather are already there...must not keep them waiting in the hot tub!"
 
-Craig Anderton-
adrian4u
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 568
  • Joined: 2010/12/07 19:07:11
  • Location: Poland
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/30 03:36:13 (permalink)
@ Cornielius

thanks to you I remember :)

the second VST host which is able to stack VST synths (and I didn't use it for 2-3 years) is CHAINER, but I can't remember is it a standalone host only or VST plugin too. Sorry
But - what  I remember - it wasn't free....

And - YES - chaining/stacking VST's is a feature that Cakewalk FORGOT to put into X1. There are more of features, like:
- GAIN, which can "act" on INCOMIMG signal, not just a "final trim" for recorded signals,
- External Instrument channel - similar to Ableton's External Iststrument - with wave drawing, functionality of VST Instrument channel...
- There are HUDGE problems with functionality/compatibility with software/VST editors-plugins for hardware gear - in example KORG microX, X50, M3; Lexicon efx processors etc.

Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat 
***************************************
Be patient for newbie ;)
kb420
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1839
  • Joined: 2004/04/03 18:27:44
  • Location: Philadelphia PA
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/03/30 07:00:50 (permalink)
It really is hard to imagine that Sonar versions 1 through 8.5,  and now X1 don't have something as basic as this.   It just goes to show where there focus is.   You can't really say that there focus has truly been on midi composition,  sound design,  or handling plug in instruments at all.   Something this rudimentary being missed is just embarrassing. 

"Now, excuse me while I jump into my Jaguar; I need to board my private jet for the usual weekend trip to my mansion on the Big Island. I think Trixie, Crystal, and Heather are already there...must not keep them waiting in the hot tub!"
 
-Craig Anderton-
DavidBrown99
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 75
  • Joined: 2005/03/26 14:04:22
  • Location: Raleigh
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/07/19 23:04:44 (permalink)
Kontakt 4 can drive 16 softsynth layers with a single Midi channel in Cakewalk.  This is the easiest solution of all. 

Good hardware synths can layer within themselves.  One layer can be a piano and another can be strings... complete with all it's own envelopes, FX etc.  The Kurzweil 1000 could do 4 independent layers, the newer Kurzweils can do up to 31 layers.  This could be driven by a single midi channel. 

Sonar does NOT need to get tangled up in creating multiple MIDI outs.  If you want multiple outs just buy the MOTU Midi Time Piece.  Complete programming of 127 midi channels on 8 cables in/out.   
jbow
Max Output Level: -0.2 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 7601
  • Joined: 2003/11/26 19:14:18
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/07/21 20:01:16 (permalink)

Kore 2 is made to do this. Works perfectly. I've created some of the most amazing sounds very quickly and easily. It really is superpowerful. I have the full package with the controller and Komplete 7.

 
Apologies if this has already been covered. After reading some of this thread this morning I decided to take a look at Kore2 only to find this on the IK Kore2 website:
 
QUOTE:

Native Instruments has decided to discontinue the KORE product range, in order to utilize its development resources in the best interest of its wider userbase.

KORE 2 will be supported through further maintenance updates for the time being, with 64-bit plugin versions of KORE 2 for Windows and Mac OS X currently in development. Technical support for KORE will also continue to be available.

All owners of the full versions of KORE 1 or KORE 2 (software edition or hardware version) can purchase MASCHINE at a special crossgrade price of $ 399 /
 
END QUOTE.
 
So, I guess Maschine is what I will look at.  Achtung!!
 
I will read through the rest of this thread but anyway, justin case no one mentioned it, it seems there wi be no Kore3.... but Maschine.
 
I would really like to hear it if you have thoughts on Maschine (something about that name could only come out of Berlin... no bad intended, Germans rock. My daughter lives in Koln and works in Dusseldorf). I've been trying to get her to try to get a job at IK... (I know this is NI... ). Fro looking at it I get the idea that Maschine and Tracktor are both really geared to hip hop and dance.. not what I am into... but you never know what something new and different might inspire so I may take a closer look when I am at the store and maybe take a peek at some of the vids.
 
So what about Maschine?? A better Kore?
 
Julien
 
 
 
post edited by jbow - 2011/07/21 20:14:14

Sonar Platinum
Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles)
HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM
Octa-Capture
KRK Rokit-8s
MIDI keyboards...
Control Pad
mics. 
I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
sykodelic
Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 612
  • Joined: 2011/05/17 15:44:28
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/07/21 22:00:58 (permalink)
my thoughts on maschine are it's cool but as a replacement for Kore no way. It doesn't allow you to do most of the things that made Kore cool....NI really ticks me off with their abandonment of products- Kore, B4, Pro 53, vokator, Spectral Delay, etc....

Asus P8P67 pro, I7 2600K, 8G Kingston Hyperflex, 2 1T WD Caviar Black(sytem,audio), 2T WD Caviar Black(samples), RME Multiface, Roland A500 Pro, Windows 7 Ultimate 64, Sonar X1C, Ableton Live 8, Reason 6, Komplete 7, DCAM Synth Squad, Omnisphere, Stylus RMX, Trillian
dmbaer
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2585
  • Joined: 2008/08/04 20:10:22
  • Location: Concord CA
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/07/22 14:15:11 (permalink)
bitflipper

I have a hard time imagining a MIDI "send" that's analogous to an aux send as suggested earlier, simply because a MIDI data stream is usually much more than just a string of notes.
First of all, controlling multiple synths from a single MIDI source is something I asked about early in my experience with Sonar.  The subject comes up frequently here.  Yes, cloned tracks can do much the same thing, but it's an awkward solution for some.  Likewise an external MIDI yoke type solution is an option, but why the need to go outside of Sonar in the first place?  So, a) count me in the group that would like to see a solution, but b) count me also in the group that would like CW to make fixing bugs the higer priority.
 
All that said, how about this fairly simple proposal?  Put a send capability in simple instrument tracks so that the MIDI data (all of it, no filtering) is merged with the MIDI data stream of one or more other simple instrument tracks.  No other restrictions.  Want to add a common controller 64 MIDI track to multiple simple instrument tracks?  No problem.  Want to have multple tracks all have the same note-on/off controls, but the individual tracks have different MIDI expression data?  No problem.  Use this capability in whatever way it makes sense.  If the MIDI send source is common to multiple targets but produces no sound on its own, let the synth slot be empty for that track (or worse case, put a dummy synth in place and zero the output level).
 
Well, maybe one restriction: no MIDI send loops allowed.  Or even: MIDI send targets cannot also be MIDI send sources.  That shouldn't cramp anyone's style.
 
Any flaws in this thinking?

post edited by dmbaer - 2011/07/22 14:16:34
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9871
  • Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
  • Location: Ohio
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/07/22 15:39:36 (permalink)
I don't know if this has been proposed, but an elegant solution might be "VSTi Chains".
We already have the ability to save EFX chains.
Cakewalk could create a plugin that could host plugins (and provide MIDI control/routing/etc like you'd find in Cantibile and Forte).  This wouldn't require any architecture changes... and would allow you to effectively work with single or multiple tracks.
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9871
  • Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
  • Location: Ohio
  • Status: offline
Re:Best way to layer two or more virtual instruments? 2011/07/22 15:39:39 (permalink)
I don't know if this has been proposed, but an elegant solution might be "VSTi Chains".
We already have the ability to save EFX chains.
Cakewalk could create a plugin that could host plugins (and provide MIDI control/routing/etc like you'd find in Cantibile and Forte).  This wouldn't require any architecture changes... and would allow you to effectively work with single or multiple tracks.
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
Page: < 12345 > Showing page 4 of 5
Jump to:
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1