I don't think we disagree at all.

-S

I don't mind not having the maual. For me it's a challenge to master the Vsampler.. I enjoy using using it, I understand how many are frustrated not having a manual,,,My feeling is,,(not that it matters) is when you're angry,,most of the time it comes from being frustrated,,then you lose your creative thoughts then you don't know what to do... I'm sure the manual will come but it the mean time I'm not going to let a manual stop me learning something or from creating good music ........... everybody is different ,,,I guess,,,,,,,,,,,,, as for the money, well , I keep dishing out,,,,,,,,everybody has to make a living,,,,,,,,

And LiveSynth Pro.

ORIGINAL: Bill OConnell

Well that's worse then. I didn't realize they'd done it *twice.*

Thanks, Scott.

Glad there's not been a mention of Tassman yet

Graham

Hi blueturbit,

And to charge for a 3.0 to 3.1 upgrade?

The charge is not for the new version 3.1 thats why the VSampler3 full version customers dont need to pay a charge for the new features. The charge is for the upgrade from the "DXi only & fixed feature set" OEM version to the full version including DXi/VSTi/Rewire/Standalone.

ORIGINAL: Bill OConnell

ORIGINAL: puffer
It's not a lie of omission, because these apps are included to make Sonar a better place to work.

Your words, not mine, my friend. I carefully chose my words to be one full step removed from "lying by omission."

You're right, Bill. That wasn't specifically reacting to anything you said, more just the fervor of posts each time a new version is released, and especially the invective hurled toward Angus and Maz and Cake when they began continuing with their updates.

Like you, I was more just ruminating aloud, stating my thoughts on the matter. I apologize if it seemed otherwise. I appreciate that you make sure that your thoughts aren't personal attacks or knee-jerk reactions.

ORIGINAL: lexinton

Your are right. The charge is for the new major features introduced with v3.1. The minor feature enhancements and bugfixes are for free

And of those new major features is *TRUE DISK STREAMING* one implemented in 3.1?

I wonder if someone could answer Glennbo's question?

Yes, a simple yes or no would do.

ORIGINAL: Speedsoft
The charge is for the upgrade from the "DXi only & fixed feature set" OEM version to the full version including DXi/VSTi/Rewire/Standalone.

Hi Tom.

Seems to me it should be possible for Speedsoft to provide a DXi only version of 3.1 that EXCLUDES whatever new features are related to using VSampler outside of Sonar (e.g., Rewire, Standalone), which would essentially preserve its OEM status if that's what you want, which by itself doesn't seem all that unreasonable.

It also seems to me that doing this would be far better for Speedsoft's long term relationship with Sonar customers, than charging them for a .1 upgrade. Especially since in some cases that relationship is already strained because the lack of documentation hinders their ability to maximize the "feature set" -- "fixed" or not. The reason some call it a "money grab" is because, 5 months out, much of VSampler's power and value are still more of a promise than a fact.

Sonar 3 Producer users should and could be the best word-of-mouth Speedsoft could ever want.

In any event, I appreciate your presence on the forum.

CJ

ORIGINAL: Speedsoft

If that was true you would be upgrading the DXi only version to 3.1 as well, just as you did 3.01, 3.02, 3.03and 3.04. You guys have already said that that was not happening.

If you buy a product in a light version (e.g. Windows XP Home or VS3 DXI only) do you really expect that you will get all following enhancements that are available in the full version of the product (e.g. Windows XP Professional or VS3 full)? Ok, VS3 DXi only and VS3 full version is the same binary, but that's because it reduces the maintenance.

Version 3.1 DXi only is of course for free for all S3PE customers but it doesn't contain all the new features of the 3.1 full.

First question:
Does the full version of vsampler 3.1 do *TRUE DISK STREAMING*?
A simple yes or no is all that's required for this one.

Second question:
Is vsampler 3.1 *THREAD SAFE* when running in a host like Sonar 3.1.1 which is MP capable?
Again, a simple yes or no will suffice.

Third question:
Do I get any royalties for writing manuals for Speedsoft products?
A simple wire transfer of funds will suffice for this one. <g>

Hi CJ,

I think if the manual is available then many of the VS3 users will detect new features they never expected That's what I have learned in the last months answering user questions and wishes in the MAZ and other forums.

In any event, I appreciate your presence on the forum.

This forum is very interesting for capturing new ideas and user needs, e.g. the need for playing REX files inside Sonar. Now VS3.1 full (sorry) can.

My sh!t streams fine... check it out: http://radio.hydrorecords.com

Tom...

While I understand your position, I have to agree with much of what C Hudson says here even if I don't agree with the tone. He does make a good point.

I too was under the impression that Vsampler was going to have disk streaming included in the DXi upgrade path, and was disappointed to learn that to get the full functionality of the program I was going to have to invest another $50 on top of my initial investment. In all honesty I wouldn't have paid for the upgrade simply to get standalone or VST/Rewire support since I don't require those.

Your decision however is somewhat understandable since it will pull in a lot more income from users like me that wouldn't have upgraded to the full version in the first place. However, it's important to realize that any gain in profits from this decision is going to be offset slightly by the potential loss of support and customer loyalty. Instead of my being a diehard Vsampler fan as I expected to be, I have been looking at alternative soltuions instead of upgrading to the full version because in my experience once a company chooses this course of action they usually will do it again somewhere down the line. Though I can respect a companies desire to make profit, I simply detest disingenuous or non-straightforward business practices, which could be argued, or at least easily perceived by many, as what is happening here.

I've been a Maz supporter on the forums here so far. But in all honesty this last move with keeping a much wanted, and arguably needed, feature as an upgrade cost to the entire DXi community is a questionable decision, and i"m in somewhat of a "wait and see" holding pattern regarding whether I'm going to continue to support this application or not.

The fact that around 12 out of the 20 people or so who've posted in this thread are upset with the decision shouldn't be ignored... that's about 60%. I would imagine that if one were to run a poll on this subject here on the forum, that percentage would actually be much higher. And with tensions high around here regarding the lack of sufficient documentation, I'm surprised that this isn't a more imporant issue to Speedsoft.

Just my two cents.

-----

Poni...

We did support the sampler by purchasing the Producer edition. If Maz didn't work out an appropriate compenstation arrangement with Cakewalk, that's a poor business decision on their part that shouldn't be passed on to the customer base in an effort to correct it, which is what does appear is happening from the S3P customer's point of view.

Hi Glennbo,

First question:

VS3.1 has the DRC2 engine. I don't like a product because of some dedicated words on the packing but I like a product because of a dedicated behaviour. If the DRC2 behaviour is not what you want, then call VS3 a RAM monster.

Second question:

If it where not *THREAD SAFE* you could not start multiple instances in sonar. But you can, YES.

Third question:

I think you and other people do a good job here in the forum helping the people that don't know how to do something. That's why a forum works. We have already spent many hours to get our own manual. No need to pay a third party at this time.

Kind regards

If it where not *THREAD SAFE* you could not start multiple instances in sonar. But you can, YES

When you use the multi threaded audio engine, there are some problems. Ron Kuper from Cakewalk has already stated that it is not thread safe. You might want to contact him about the details.

Its not a general problem. Added to the bug list.