Axeman49
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Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
They took away disk streaming because of a flaw, now they want to charge us Sonar Pro user extra money to get the feature back. One of the reasons I went with the Producer over Studio, was the full version of VSampler3. Why should we have to pay for disk streaming ???
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tok2burn
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 00:30:28
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Is this true? Are you referring only to the dxi version that ships with SONAR? I haven't heard anything from VSampler myself (I have the full version). Do you mean the Beta 3.1 version? I think Scott (below) may be right; I was sort of under the impression that VS3 had disk streaming included, but can't remember for sure. I haven't had a chance to work with it too much yet, but it does seem useable once you get over the learning curve. Anyway, I'd delete this response, but I can't figure out how, so I'll just say that I will withhold judgement until I learn more......... Chuck
< Message edited by tok2burn -- 2/4/2004 1:10:17 AM >
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Scott Reams
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 00:37:47
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On a human level, I totally agree.
Technically... they may have the upper hand, because what you paid for with Sonar3P was VSampler3... which does not have and does not advertise having disk streaming.
-S
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Glennbo 
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 01:08:27
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ORIGINAL: Scott Reams
On a human level, I totally agree.
Technically... they may have the upper hand, because what you paid for with Sonar3P was VSampler3... which does not have and does not advertise having disk streaming.
-S
You can still do quite a lot with vsampler, the way it ships with Sonar. Bigger samples *DO NOT* always equal better sound. Gigapiano is a perfect example. It's a gigabyte worth of mushy sounding unusable piano in my opinion.
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lexinton
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 01:10:20
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When they say it supports the giga format, what does that mean or am I missing something?
Quote
"VSampler 3 DXi is a powerful digital sampler that seamlessly combines support for all the major sampling formats, with extensive editing capabilities, and unmatched ease-of-use"
Lex
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Scott Reams
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 01:21:02
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ORIGINAL: lexinton
When they say it supports the giga format, what does that mean or am I missing something? Giga format is a sampler file format... one that does not necessarily require disk streaming. NI's Kontakt supported Giga format samples before it supported disk-streaming. I believe MOTU's MachFive will also support Giga... but will not stream from disk. -S
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Akshara
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 01:32:57
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Yes, the situation does suck. However, the full standalone version of Vsampler wasn't advertised with Sonar, just the DXi one; and the Producer cost covered the Sonitus effects, the Lexicon reverb, and the enhanced console features as well. The $49 upgrade to the standalone Vsampler isn't that big an expense, and is still a lot cheaper than Mach5 or Kontakt.
But in principle I agree with you. It was presented differently than it actually ended up being in the Cakewalk promo for the Producer version. I'd have to lay it squarely on Cakewalk's shoulders with that one... but if they advertised it as a limited version then many would have just opted for the Studio edition instead. Maz probably had very little to do with Cakewalk's marketing scheme.
Just add this one next to the MP3 encoder, which I still refuse to purchase just out of principle.
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Glennbo
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 01:42:03
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ORIGINAL: Akshara
... but if they advertised it as a limited version then many would have just opted for the Studio edition instead.
Not me. Vsampler fires up with Sonar on my box, and is loaded with imported giga files for kick, snare, and toms from "Drumkit From Hell" and "Natural Studio Kit", plus *all* the cymbals from Purrrfect Drums. The raw .gig files were over a gigabyte. I imported them and saved it as a vsampler file, and use it for the drums on all my songs now. I would hate not having vsampler around, because Gigastudio96 never did as good of job for my drums.
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lexinton
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 01:52:53
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Giga format is a sampler file format... one that does not necessarily require disk streaming. NI's Kontakt supported Giga format samples before it supported disk-streaming. I believe MOTU's MachFive will also support Giga... but will not stream from disk.
-S
Ok, I didn't know that when I purchased. Like Akshara said $49 is not alot more if I can stream from disk. I wonder if anyone out there has tried it yet? It'd be nice to know how well it works. In the meantime I guess I should stick with soundfonts. I think Glennbo is using giga with vsampler. I wonder how much ram you need to do that? Lex
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lexinton
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 01:59:10
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. The raw .gig files were over a gigabyte. I imported them and saved it as a vsampler file, and use it for the drums on all my songs now. I would hate not having vsampler around, because Gigastudio96 never did as good of job for my drums.
You'll have to forgive me I'm kind of new at this. Does saving them as a vsampler file reduce their size? Lex
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CrayonJones
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 05:19:56
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ORIGINAL: Akshara
Just add this one next to the MP3 encoder, which I still refuse to purchase just out of principle.
I suppose I can see paying for the separate standalone version. But as I understand it (someone please correct me if I’m wrong) Speedsoft/Maz is charging Sonar 3 users for the VS 3.1 DX version. The problem I have with that is, while VS is useful I still I don't feel I've gotten full value from the original version that shipped with Sonar, or the subsequent minor fixes. Why? Because whatever value I *have* gotten out of it came either from going mano a mano with its awful interface, or from hunting user groups for scraps of info. That's energy better used for making music, so I end up doing less with it than I want to, or than it's capable of. Rather than being a reasonable fee for a meaningful upgrade, the $49 feels more like a tax or a hidden charge on a product that has yet to be fully delivered. Doesn't exactly build brand loyalty, which makes it hard to have confidence in a long and healthy VSampler upgrade path.
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Speedsoft
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 06:28:04
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Hi CrayonJones, I suppose I can see paying for the separate standalone version. But as I understand it (someone please correct me if I’m wrong) Speedsoft/Maz is charging Sonar 3 users for the VS 3.1 DX version. Your are right. The charge is for the VSTi, Standalone, ReWire functionality and the new major features introduced with v3.1. The minor feature enhancements and bugfixes are for free.
Tom Langer Speedsoft Audio Tools
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EvilGuitarMonke
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 06:41:18
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Absolutely. To me, disk streaming is not even an issue, but the fact that there is no manual and I don't really know how to use the damn thing is a huge issue. ORIGINAL: CrayonJones
ORIGINAL: Akshara
Just add this one next to the MP3 encoder, which I still refuse to purchase just out of principle.
I suppose I can see paying for the separate standalone version. But as I understand it (someone please correct me if I’m wrong) Speedsoft/Maz is charging Sonar 3 users for the VS 3.1 DX version.
The problem I have with that is, while VS is useful I still I don't feel I've gotten full value from the original version that shipped with Sonar, or the subsequent minor fixes. Why? Because whatever value I *have* gotten out of it came either from going mano a mano with its awful interface, or from hunting user groups for scraps of info. That's energy better used for making music, so I end up doing less with it than I want to, or than it's capable of.
Rather than being a reasonable fee for a meaningful upgrade, the $49 feels more like a tax or a hidden charge on a product that has yet to be fully delivered. Doesn't exactly build brand loyalty, which makes it hard to have confidence in a long and healthy VSampler upgrade path.
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WFTurner
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 09:22:42
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I'm not ready to make the S3 upgrade but I did Upgrade my Vsampler2 to the full version of VSampler 3 and I feel it was money well spent. I understand the complaints about the manual issues, but I basically went thru that when I started using version 2. It took some work but I managed to drudge thru the much at first seemingly awful unfriendly interface and found I had a pretty damn useful tool for the $59 I paid at that particular time when I was still using Homestudio. Today, having already worked thru the problems of terrible documention which is the main VSampler theme these days, I found the upgrade, which was $62.02 in US dollars, one of best valued upgrades I've made in ages. The improvement to the GUI, from my view of having started with the old VSampler is intuitive and friendly as can be in comparison. The import functions so far have worked great. It seems to sound better. I can run many instances, which you couldn't in VS2. Running 6-7-8 instances barely breaks a sweat on my cpu meter... etc... my compliments and likes for VS3 are too long to list here. I have less than $125 US dollars invested in what I consider one of my most useful tools. Other than constantly customizing my drum kits, I'm a user of sample banks making music. This is a great tool. If you're more into creating and manipulating sample banks, one of the other samplers maybe a better choice.
< Message edited by WFTurner -- 2/4/2004 9:24:21 AM >
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WFTurner
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 09:31:24
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I will add that even at this stage of my experience and my satisfaction with VSampler, a comprhensive manual would still be nice.
< Message edited by WFTurner -- 2/4/2004 9:32:09 AM >
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Speedsoft
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 10:10:58
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Hi William,
the manual will come. Promised!
Tom Langer Speedsoft Audio Tools
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tedluk
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 11:58:37
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ORIGINAL: Speedsoft
Hi William,
the manual will come. Promised!
Ok, when? We've been hearing this for quite a while now. Your credibility isn't too high at this point. Wasn't it "promised" when the standalone version of 3.1 was released? Ted
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BC
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 12:25:02
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I'm just getting into using Vsampler for Soundfonts . What are some good resources for other sample content to use with Vsampler? I'm interested mostly in Synths - leads & pads etc. and some orchestral content.
I looked at MAZ's site and I don't see very much Vsampler-specific content apart from what shipped with it in Sonar 3 PE.
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Speedsoft
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 13:00:30
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Hi Ted, Wasn't it "promised" when the standalone version of 3.1 was released?
The manual will be available at the time we release the version 3.1 Standalone/VSTi/DXi. It wasn't released yet, only beta status at this time.
Tom Langer Speedsoft Audio Tools
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Glennbo
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 15:20:37
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ORIGINAL: lexinton
. The raw .gig files were over a gigabyte. I imported them and saved it as a vsampler file, and use it for the drums on all my songs now. I would hate not having vsampler around, because Gigastudio96 never did as good of job for my drums.
You'll have to forgive me I'm kind of new at this. Does saving them as a vsampler file reduce their size?
Yes. vsampler save the files as re-written waves in their own folder. In the case of my drums, which the cymbals are the largest group, a lot of air was squeezed out of them because the original samples of the crashes lasted for something like 15 seconds, 10 of which was near zero volume. The converted vsampler versions are shorter, but not really noticable as such in a mix. They also take up a bunch less memory. The original giga file of cymbals was 800+ megabytes.
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Glennbo
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 15:25:47
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ORIGINAL: Speedsoft
Hi CrayonJones,
I suppose I can see paying for the separate standalone version. But as I understand it (someone please correct me if I’m wrong) Speedsoft/Maz is charging Sonar 3 users for the VS 3.1 DX version.
Your are right. The charge is for the VSTi, Standalone, ReWire functionality and the new major features introduced with v3.1. The minor feature enhancements and bugfixes are for free.
And of those new major features is *TRUE DISK STREAMING* one implemented in 3.1? I ask this because I've seen this question asked on your forum, and seen the answer dance that did not say *YES*, but said something like, you are no longer limited to ram size for samples, which in my book is *NOT* the same as saying "yes vsampler 3.1 *DOES* do disk streaming".
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Scott Reams
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 15:33:14
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but if they advertised it as a limited version then many would have just opted for the Studio edition instead. Definitely not for me... the full Lexicon and the Sonitus effects and trackEQ are well worth the measly $200 difference. -S
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Scott Reams
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 15:35:25
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I think Glennbo is using giga with vsampler. I wonder how much ram you need to do that?
Lex
Whether or not you use a Giga-format sample has nothing to do with the fact that it is in that format. What is important is how large the sample is... and if it is more than your available RAM can handle. Many Giga-format samples are very small, and will easily fit in RAM. In that case... they'd be no different than your typical soundfont. -S
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DAYDAY
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 15:42:53
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MAYBE THEY SHOULD HAVE JUST BOUGHT LSP W/A WAVE EDITOR...IT WOULD HAVE SAVED THEM ALOT OF OVERALL NEGATIVE FEEDBACK...DAMN, JUST THINK IF SONAR DID NOT INCLUDE A FREAKIN' MANUAL!!!
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Glennbo
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 16:07:57
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ORIGINAL: DAYDAY
JUST THINK IF SONAR DID NOT INCLUDE A FREAKIN' MANUAL!!!
Hehe, I've never open any of my Sonar manuals. They are all still shrink wrapped in plastic, with a little slit where I got the CD out. ;)
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Bill OConnell
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 16:11:42
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I agree with Scott--the plugins alone are worth the price of admission. I *was* ticked off when I realized it was a 3.0 "OEM" version. I don't think any mistatements were made in advertising the product, but nothing was volunteered to clarify it, either. But, what the heck, I've gotten over it. Because this (realization) came on the heels of the registration problems and the lack of documentation, it just added fuel to the fire. I didn't ask for VSampler--heck, I don't even have it installed (anymore). But if you say something is included, I don't need the technical "gotcha's". Not from a company that I regard as highly as Cakewalk, anyway. YMMV
< Message edited by Bill OConnell -- 2/4/2004 4:12:43 PM >
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Scott Reams
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 16:14:31
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I *was* ticked off when I realized it was a 3.0 "OEM" version.
DR008 included with Sonar 2XL was also an OEM version (no standalone). -S
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Bill OConnell
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 16:21:08
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Well that's worse then. I didn't realize they'd done it *twice.* Thanks, Scott.
< Message edited by Bill OConnell -- 2/4/2004 4:37:09 PM >
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Bill OConnell
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 16:29:16
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Let me clarify--I don't object to not getting a standalone version. I think one would reasonably expect, though, to get at least several incremental updates for the Version 3 DXi version. Again, I don't really care. I respect your opinions, Scott. And if we have any differences on this one, it really isn't worth pursuing.
< Message edited by Bill OConnell -- 2/4/2004 4:35:11 PM >
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puffer
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RE: Cakewalk, do you think it's fair what vsampler has done.
2004/02/04 16:59:00
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I think it's more than reasonable to expect that when Cake bundles apps in their product that it's for the use of using them with their product. I don't see what the problem is. I didn't with DR-008, and I don't with VSampler or Lexicon. It's not a lie of omission, because these apps are included to make Sonar a better place to work. And they do update them, as witness the plug-in patches. That fxpansion or Maz want to upgrade their package and charge the same price they would charge to their other customers is also a perfectly reasonable business decision.
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