Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effort

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synthmann
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/26 05:52:50 (permalink)
the ability to drag drum samples onto rows of the stepsequencer and hence eliminate the need to use a vst plug-in and have to map everything.
eratu
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/29 10:10:59 (permalink)
Friendly bump for the record.

Still haven't heard back from our friends at Cakewalk yet after sending the letter. Will update again soon!

Hope you all continue to have a great holiday season and are inspired with your music-making! 2010 seems like it's going to be a big year in a lot of ways and I wish all the forum members and Cakewalk team the best! As for me in my music world, I'm working on a piece of music right now that will be played at the National Cathedral... I'm so excited, can't wait to see how it's received!

BTW, great suggestions on the prior page, nice work guys! I love that PRV idea.

Let's keep our fingers crossed that Cakewalk responds the way we hope they do to this effort! And then implement as many of the ideas as they can!

Best, James
djjhart@aol.com
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/29 10:54:35 (permalink)
1...I totally Love to see a cleaner track view with automation lanes separate of the track lane, I hate grabbing an automation line by accident and changing it.. Just to cluttered .
2. Audiosnap 3.0 
3. Step sequencer needs to be totally redone.. 
4. SD3 needs wave editor built in..
 BUT THIS WOULD BE THE FEATURE WE ALL NEED IF IT COULD BE DONE!!!

HOW ABOUT HAVE TRACK LANES WORK AS A SAMPLER LANES INSTEAD, THATS ABLE TO READ MIDI ,AUDIO ECT.. 
How I like to see it work would be grab a loop , make a loop, ect drag it into track lane where you want it, Transients are made up automaticlly with a push of a button, you can make set points and drag out , stretch out on time . sampler tools to edit the sample, Just like have NI Kontakt but with out opening any 3rd party program.. all in the track view window , How sweet would that be, we can zoom into edit it now but why not make the track lane a sampler lane with sampler tools.. 

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...wicked
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/29 12:58:33 (permalink)
So, I'm assuming there's been no response to this effort yet?

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eratu
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/29 13:09:03 (permalink)
...wicked


So, I'm assuming there's been no response to this effort yet?


Correct, no formal response since I mailed in the hard-copy letters and we sent emails and posted to the standard feature request system. At the beginning of the effort, we did get a nice initial response from Willy at Cakewalk with a request for more detail, which we provided. I consider that a good first start, so now we just await a "formal" response from the Cakewalk folks named in the letter -- Greg, Noel, Alex, Brandon, Carl and Steve.

I hope to hear from them at least shortly after the holidays and they get back into the groove after the new year.

Best, James
relpomiraculous
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/29 15:03:57 (permalink)
"Below, please find attached the official "Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List" for your consideration."

I hope what started out as a "request" for their "consideration" doesn't turn into a demand for an answer!  This thread started off positive and I can already see where it may easily end up.  Just food for thought...no insults intended.

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Tommy01
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/29 17:13:14 (permalink)
Please add me to the list too, Great ideas and suggestions! Thanks for taking your personal time to do this.
Tommy
Jose7822
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/29 18:38:18 (permalink)
relpomiraculous


"Below, please find attached the official "Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List" for your consideration."

I hope what started out as a "request" for their "consideration" doesn't turn into a demand for an answer!  This thread started off positive and I can already see where it may easily end up.  Just food for thought...no insults intended.
 
We are not demanding anything.  That is up to Cakewalk to decide if they want to respond or not.  I personally prefer it if they answer with actions rather than with any number of letters/emails.  At the very least, we will find out who Cakewalk considers their target customers in the next release.
 
 
 

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SongCraft
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/29 19:49:45 (permalink)
I was thinking the same thing, that's it's probably because of the holiday or maybe their resident pet dog (Baker) ate it (letter)?

But you never know, we might get a response in January or February.

They might need more time to drool go over all the details before responding.

I do know a moderator or two has browsed this thread!

If Cakewalk decides to keep it under wraps until the new Sonar release then it will be a very long wait, that does not seem practical because even if the letter stated no response is necessary it might make some people here feel that they are being discourteous.

.

 
 
Dilaco1
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/29 19:59:13 (permalink)
Just wanted to add my name in support of the top ten list--or at least in support of the idea of upgrades being geared more toward workflow and stability, rather than more bells and whistles. I would especially like to see the shortcuts implemented for all levels of menues. My main multi-mouse-click pathway (at least, when recording midi orchestral material) is:
Process > Midi Fx > Velocity
or
Process > Midi Fx > Quantize > drop down menu > my custom settings (I never quantize at the default 1/16 note value).
I'm sure the message is  being heard.
 

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Jose7822
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/29 20:04:27 (permalink)
Oh, no doubt that Cakewalk has read this thread and knows about it.  But I personally don't expect them to respond, except with actions :-).  I mean, all they can really say is that they appreciate our efforts and will consider the features that have been requested.  Other than that, they can't really say much more.  So, if they decide to respond, it'll probably be a generic answer like that.  There's no way they'll say that they will seriously consider these features even if they want to.  That would compromise them and put them on the spot.


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SongCraft
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/29 20:15:10 (permalink)
Jose; I mean, all they can really say is that they appreciate our efforts and will consider the features that have been requested.

And that's all they need to say ;-)

 
 
eratu
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/29 20:39:37 (permalink)
I agree entirely with what Jose said, this is most definitely not a demand, and I do hope we can all continue to keep the tone positive, which I think everyone who has posted in this thread has been pretty darn good at. I just can't help myself and say THANK YOU again for all the support!

I've been very inspired by the great forum members that I've come to know a bit better here, both publicly and privately, and I'm positively blown away by the great ideas that have been posted in this forum by many killer Sonar users over the years. I know Cakewalk reads the forum and by extrapolation they have certainly read the feature request list and letter by now. I'm positive Cakewalk will respond when they feel it is appropriate for them. I want to be very optimistic what that response will (eventually) be... and certainly actions speak infinitely louder than words. So if we have to wait until fall of 2010 to get our sweaty hands on the install disks, so be it. (Although, I'm *hoping* for a "response' much sooner than that.)

I'm actually a little relieved that they didn't respond too quickly. In the PR world, that's often a sign of damage control or playing politics, and not necessarily getting at the heart of the issue. I hope they take all the time they need to seriously analyze the list and the nature of this effort so they can make the best possible decisions. It's got to be a very complex decision matrix that they must go through and I have every hope that they'll make use of all the good will presented here in the best possible way.

Heck, I hope they take it all the way and use this and other threads here as major marketing bullet points in the next release... about how much they listen to their userbase, etc., etc., etc. :)

And yes, I do "hope" for a formal response (whatever that means) soon but obviously no one here is asking Cakewalk to show their poker hand... they surely can't detail their entire development schedule for the next X months or years. But they can acknowledge the feature request list and positive effort, maybe drop a couple of hints :) maybe reveal a general area of focus.... :) After all, good PR is good marketing, and good marketing makes for good sales, and good sales... well, you get the picture. Cakewalk is a business after all, and if they can profit from ANY of this, more power to them. If they actually do implement some of the key requests here, well, you don't have to take advanced marketing courses to understand what type of synergy and momentum they could develop. Win-win, you know. :)

BTW, I've now added Tommy (Tommy01) and Dilaco1 to list! Thank you for your support!

Happy New Year everyone!
...wicked
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/29 21:03:52 (permalink)
Well maybe that Ableton thread will give them the courage to speak up about updates. 

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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/29 22:11:41 (permalink)
   eratu: I agree entirely with what Jose said, this is most definitely not a demand

You agree with Jose but not me?

Of course it's not a demand, it's a matter of respect, a lot of customers are supporting that letter and contributed not only on this thread but other threads and of course I and others paid for SONAR instead of stealing it (piracy). At the least we deserve a 'little' respect, a little  acknowledgement.

   Wicked.... Well maybe that Ableton thread will give them the courage to speak up about updates.

Maybe! I have seen threads where some have outspokenly stated they did not update because they feel a little disappointed, issues such as envelopes ring a bell? looks like Cakewalk has some catching up to do.


Come on guys, Sonar is all powerful and feature packed to the brim but there are some things that have been left to gather dust in favour of adding new toys. That's the reality!!!! Don't deny it.

On another post I said, Please Cakewalk, give us an exclusive update.

After the issue I had with the eStore it gave me time to reconsider upgrading, I have decided to 'wait'n'see'.


Wishing everyone great prosperity for the new year :-)

Cheers!

.

 
 
relpomiraculous
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/29 22:40:54 (permalink)
sorry...that comment was meant for a different thread...on a different forum.
post edited by relpomiraculous - 2009/12/29 23:24:11

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UnderTow
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/30 13:14:38 (permalink)
Jose7822


I mean, all they can really say is that they appreciate our efforts and will consider the features that have been requested.
I think Cakewalk should hire you for a PR tutorial.

I like the suggestions on the previous page. Simple and elegant yet powerful.

UnderTow

eratu
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/30 13:29:17 (permalink)
SongCraft


   eratu: I agree entirely with what Jose said, this is most definitely not a demand

You agree with Jose but not me?

Of course it's not a demand, it's a matter of respect, a lot of customers are supporting that letter and contributed not only on this thread but other threads and of course I and others paid for SONAR instead of stealing it (piracy). At the least we deserve a 'little' respect, a little  acknowledgement.


I also agree with you -- I must have missed your post when I responded. I was actually responding to relpomiraculous' comment when he said, "I hope what started out as a "request" for their "consideration" doesn't turn into a demand for an answer!  This thread started off positive and I can already see where it may easily end up.  Just food for thought...no insults intended."

My response was just in response to his comment -- that I agreed with Jose that this wasn't a demand, etc... and therefore I also agree with you! I should have quoted relpomiraculous' post.

Anyway, I think Cakewalk will come through and acknowledge the efforts here -- there are a lot of people that have been asking for these things for a long, long time... long before this thread and effort, of course. So the aggregate body of people with good will towards Cakewalk asking for these features certainly merits a respectful response, in my opinion. I'm with you 100% there. But again, in the end, what really matters is what happens when Sonar 9 comes out. :)


Wishing everyone great prosperity for the new year :-)

Cheers!

And with that, I agree wholeheartedly!

andypanda
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/30 13:35:55 (permalink)
I'm coming very late to the party.  Where do I sign up?
 
Did Vari-Speed make it to the list of feature requests?   That is top of my list.
SilkTone
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/30 14:09:33 (permalink)
OK, it's it kinda late now for new ideas but here is something that has bothered me for quite a while now...

Let's say you have a VSTi with both an audio and a MIDI track. While playing back, you mute the audio track. Now when you unmute the same audio track again, what often happens is that the MIDI becomes out of sync because the MIDI stream of notes was also muted. Sonar muted both the audio and MIDI signal paths. This is not ideal because in a complex song, if you solo any track for instance, it means all other MIDI signal paths to other VSTis are muted as well, and once you unsolo, more often than not things get out of sync. Sometimes it is just because the MIDI track was unmuted after a "Note On" event was sent (so it is not playing the remaining part of that note at all), or because some VSTi plugins just get completely confused about their current playback position, like RealGuitar, RealStrat, etc, which then play back completely wrong cords for a while.
 
The solution is extremely simple: Do not mute the associated MIDI track when an audio tack is muted. Only mute the audio track. Similarly, when soloing a track, mute only the audio tracks of all other tracks that are not soloed while keeping the MIDI tracks unmuted.

Basically, there is no need to mute MIDI tracks at all (unless I am missing something here), since we can't hear MIDI anyway, we only hear what comes out from the VSTi that it feeds into. By keeping the MIDI notes flowing, even while muting the output of the VSTi, it means that the instant that the audio track is unmuted, what you hear coming out of the VSTi will be absolutely the correct output since it has been processing the correct stream of MIDI notes all along.

On the other hand, if I really wanted to mute a MIDI track, I can click on its own mute button, after all.

There could even be an option, something like this:

    [x] Do not mute MIDI tracks when I mute or solo audio tracks.

It can then default to unchecked, which would be the same as what Sonar does right now (but for the life of me I can't think of any reason why anyone would actually want that behavior...)
post edited by SilkTone - 2009/12/30 17:39:37

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UnderTow
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/30 15:25:28 (permalink)
SongCraft


Jose; I mean, all they can really say is that they appreciate our efforts and will consider the features that have been requested.

And that's all they need to say ;-)

Exactly! :)

UnderTow
Jose7822
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/30 15:31:31 (permalink)
SlikTone,

I really like that!  Every time I solo a track I have to stop and re-start playback after I un-solo it, which completely disrupts workflow. 

So your suggestion would really be handy.

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Jose7822
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/30 15:32:32 (permalink)
UnderTow


Jose7822


I mean, all they can really say is that they appreciate our efforts and will consider the features that have been requested.
I think Cakewalk should hire you for a PR tutorial.

I like the suggestions on the previous page. Simple and elegant yet powerful.

UnderTow
 
 
:-P

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SilkTone
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/30 17:47:33 (permalink)
I must say that there are some excellent suggestions in this thread. I think CW should forego their own "brainstorming" sessions and just use this thread as a starting point. Less of what they think customers want and more of what customers really want. This thread/letter can't make it any easier for them. Now I have to wonder how much of what people actually want is going to make it into the next version and how much of it is going to be the usual crop of mostly useless new features that nobody asked for.

Deleted a comment that could causing this thread to go off-topic.
post edited by SilkTone - 2009/12/30 17:51:24

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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/30 23:11:27 (permalink)
Eratu,

It's all good! I hope my post does not steer this thread in a negative direction as that is not my intention.

I feel that everyone has their preferences, their own preferred workflow. But at the very core of the program we all want the same; enhanced, uninterrupted workflow.  Along with that Sonar has proven to be flexible, to accomidate more than one workflow, I think that's a good thing! It's great to have various options.

What SONAR series should ALL have in common is at the core, have exactly the same GUI and workflow enhancements, overall even-more user-friendly and uninterrupted workflows with continued focus on optimisations, greater stabiliity/quality control and greatly enhanced workflow that includes what's been suggested on this thread particularly the later part (PRV+Trk-View GUI Enhancements and improved Envelope workflow)  I much prefer Cakewalk moves in that direction.

It's funny that little simple enhancements such as; 'solo/unsolo without stopping playback' and the newly suggested 'PRV+Trk-View',  would go a long way to greatly improve workflow.

 
 
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/31 01:56:59 (permalink)
I' very impressed with you guys and gals.  You put a lot of thought and effort into being a part of the direction of the software, and your ideas are extremely well informed.  If these suggestions can be coded and fit into Sonar then I will have you to thank for making these workflow ideas possible.  Workflow is everything to me.  And trust that the buttons I push and dials I set will work the way I expect them to work (that's good design, according to Alan Parson's new video on EQ).  I have nothing but respect for the studio owners here that continually have to record new bands with new setups and demands and if anyone knows workflow pluses and minuses it's you.  Kudos.

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LJB
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/31 02:55:48 (permalink)
Please ad my name to the list!

Ludwig Bouwer
Music Producer/Sound Engineer
One Big Room Studios
South Africa

Ludwig Bouwer, One Big Room Studios.
--------------------
Cakewalk
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Check out my work at www.onebigroom.co.za

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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/31 10:04:48 (permalink)
SilkTone


OK, it's it kinda late now for new ideas but here is something that has bothered me for quite a while now...
Just for the record, I don't think it is ever too late to make new suggestions. As long as this thread keeps popping up on the forum's front page, it is as good a place as any to mention new workflow enhancement ideas.

There could even be an option, something like this:

    [x] Do not mute MIDI tracks when I mute or solo audio tracks.

It can then default to unchecked, which would be the same as what Sonar does right now (but for the life of me I can't think of any reason why anyone would actually want that behavior...)
I like this option and support it buuuuut.... the real problem is that Cakewalk need to fix their engine. It has never been gap free or perfectly in sync with itself the universe or anything... I had a chance to mess with the Matrix View at a friend's house and was utterly disappointed. The idea is nice and I would love have a quick sketch tool like that but it just isn't in sync with stuff in the arrange view which IMO makes it completely useless for the kind of thing one would want to use it for. (Yes all loops and samples used to test it with were accurately trimmed and tempo matched etc).

Sonar's audio engine needs to be fixed, or if it can't be fixed, redesigned from scratch. It should always be sample accurately synced. I don't understand why Cakewalk have such a hard time with this. Every other audio application I have used just stays in sync with itself. One should be able to start making music, set Sonar to loop mode and add instruments, record, edit MIDI and audio, add samples and whatnot for hours on end without it ever losing sync. Right now it more often than not loses sync after a few loop iterations. That just isn't right.

UnderTow

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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/31 10:32:33 (permalink)
Please add me to the list, and thank you for taking the time to do this, it is really appreciated.

Cheers
Mike

Cheers
Mike
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Re:Calling All Interested Sonar Users - Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List - Group Effor 2009/12/31 14:44:57 (permalink)
Just added Ludwig Bouwer and Mike (Telecaster) to the list! Thank you, gentlemen, for your support! We're up to 77 signatures, for the record -- please let me know if I've missed anyone. 

I think it's fantastic that people are still adding support as well as ideas to this thread. In the various forms of contact we sent to Cakewalk (letters, email, formal feature requests, etc.), this thread is referenced, so Cakewalk can come back here and see a continued record of support and ideas. I agree with UnderTow's comment above, "I don't think it is ever too late to make new suggestions. As long as this thread keeps popping up on the forum's front page, it is as good a place as any to mention new workflow enhancement ideas."

Like I mentioned before, I'm inspired by the great ideas and great people in this forum in general, and I am confident Cakewalk values this resource... just can't wait to see what Sonar 9 brings to the table. :)

SongCraft: I think we're very much on the same target, and I agree, it's all good! I'm with you 100% about the focus of Sonar on core/workflow issues!
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