Anderton
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EB-5 Dim Pro Instrument: Free Download Is Still Available, Blog Post Up
[Edit: The bass instrument has been finished and there are five Dimension Pro programs. Download info is in the Cakewalk blog, or on page 4 of this thread.] At least I hope to make a Dim Pro instrument...I borrowed an EB 5-string bass from Gibson today  I've always wanted to sample a 5-string bass, and the EB does coil split so I can get multiple sounds out of it. If the instrument turns out well, I plan to share it with the community in some way. So why am I posting this thread? Well, I often take requests...if any one has suggestions like "What I REALLY want is pick sounds, not fingers" or "Hey, can you layer stuff and make an 8-string bass?" or whatever, chime in...I only have it for a couple weeks with it until I need to give it back.
post edited by Anderton - 2014/02/18 15:07:53
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Splat 
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/10 23:20:14
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John
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/11 02:16:47
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Kev999
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/11 03:41:47
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☄ Helpfulby soundtweaker 2014/01/30 01:29:14
When setting up a bass guitar for sampling, it's good to use heavy gauge strings and set the action quite high. This will largely eliminate most of the fret buzz and rattle that would otherwise occur as well as sounding richer in harmonics. Of course it makes the instrument less easy to play, but that doesn't matter when you're playing one note at at time for the purpose of sampling. Most bass samples that I hear don't sound like they've been set up this way.
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mudgel
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/11 05:26:30
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Craig! When you say "I have to give it back", do you mean you are going to give it as a prize for a competition you're setting up? Cool. "The bass that Craig played"
Will you post the prize to Australia?
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FCCfirstclass
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/11 06:57:37
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Can you try for a "plucked string" sound? My uncle was a master playing his stand up bass. His fingertips were callused over and looked like lily pads. He could get almost the same sound from an electric bass Thanks for sharing. 
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bitflipper
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/11 11:33:48
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Excellent idea, Craig!
Will you present the coil modes as separate layers so as to be able to continuously crossfade between them? Even better, put each pickup on a separate layer, like a Rickenbacker? Using all 4 of Dim Pro's layers you could do both and have the complete tonal spectrum within a single program.
Of course, having never created a Dim Pro instrument myself I could be just talkin' outa my hat.
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Anderton
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/11 11:39:51
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Kev999
When setting up a bass guitar for sampling, it's good to use heavy gauge strings and set the action quite high. This will largely eliminate most of the fret buzz and rattle that would otherwise occur as well as sounding richer in harmonics. Of course it makes the instrument less easy to play, but that doesn't matter when you're playing one note at at time for the purpose of sampling. Most bass samples that I hear don't sound like they've been set up this way.
Spot on. The first thing I did was raise the action to an absurd height, and re-do the intonation. Sometimes the "buzz" is part of the sound (e.g., Scarbee Rickenbacker in Kontakt) but my intention is something more "pure" so it can also be used with processing for more synthetic sounds.
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Anderton
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/11 11:42:04
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mudgel
Craig! When you say "I have to give it back", do you mean you are going to give it as a prize for a competition you're setting up? Cool. "The bass that Craig played"
Will you post the prize to Australia?
Sorry, no..."give it back" as in I borrowed it from the Gibson USA factory, I didn't buy it. But I'm seriously thinking of buying the new SG Standard bass or the 4-string EB.
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Anderton
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/11 11:45:59
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bitflipper
Excellent idea, Craig!
Will you present the coil modes as separate layers so as to be able to continuously crossfade between them? Even better, put each pickup on a separate layer, like a Rickenbacker? Using all 4 of Dim Pro's layers you could do both and have the complete tonal spectrum within a single program.
Of course, having never created a Dim Pro instrument myself I could be just talkin' outa my hat.
Excellent suggestion, but the reality is that I'm going to be sampling each note - I don't like how the formant shifts when you transpose a sample, and I want this to sound really good. That's a lot of work, what with having to make sure they're all consistent and looped well. Also, there's one particular EB tone you can get with the neck pickup in coil split mode and the bridge pickup without split that I absolutely adore, and can't get with any other bass...so that's the one I'm going to be doing first. If it doesn't take me forever to do that, then I will definitely do other samples. I already have samples of individual strings for different pickup sounds that are suitable for Rapture (which doesn't do multisamples), but I want the Dim Pro instrument to be really high quality.
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ampfixer
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/11 17:13:52
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TO me, this would be something I'd like to see. I have a large collection of vintage amps and guitars and thought it would be great to sample them for others. When I started to investigate, I found the detail and work involved was overwhelming.
Your project might make an excellent tutorial for guys like me that don't have a clue where to begin.
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rontarrant
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/11 19:14:59
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Is there any documentation anywhere for how to go about creating an instrument for Dim Pro? I'm asking without having looked first which, I suppose, is a bit of a faux pas, but...
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Kev999
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/11 20:01:37
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rontarrant
Is there any documentation anywhere for how to go about creating an instrument for Dim Pro?
What you need to create is an SFZ file, along with the set of samples (audio files) you have created of different notes, and place it within the DimPro multisamples. Often the easiest way is to use an existing SFZ file, make a copy and edit it (using Notepad). Before you start reading up on SFZ, take a look at some existing files. With some of the simpler ones, you might catch on just by looking.
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Splat
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/11 20:05:53
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BTW my post in #2 whilst jokey had an element of truth in it, for instance Spinal Tap (some people think they are a fictional band, they are wrong!) always gets guest bass players to play Big Bottom on their sets, sometimes lots of them, because lots of bass is simply awesome, i.e.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN42uzNFVmQ Now if I could have a plugin to emulate these guys.... Update...Although there is this: http://www.sampleism.com/scott-f-thompson/kit-ec
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/01/11 20:18:40
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soens
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/11 20:37:14
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I know this is technically "off-bass" but... what I'd reeellly like is a good pedal-steel sample for DimPro.
Any suggestions?
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drewfx1
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/11 20:48:30
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Anderton
Kev999
When setting up a bass guitar for sampling, it's good to use heavy gauge strings and set the action quite high. This will largely eliminate most of the fret buzz and rattle that would otherwise occur as well as sounding richer in harmonics. Of course it makes the instrument less easy to play, but that doesn't matter when you're playing one note at at time for the purpose of sampling. Most bass samples that I hear don't sound like they've been set up this way.
Spot on. The first thing I did was raise the action to an absurd height IOW, you raised it to what we bass players call "normal" action? 
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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mudgel
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/12 02:13:31
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Someone suggested using Craig's process as a tutorial for doing ones own sampling.
Craig, would it be possible to accommodate this by doing an interactive/live (can't remember the term) reviews you did on Harmony Central? It would make a great instructional video too.
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Anderton
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/12 02:27:56
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☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2014/01/13 17:03:58
mudgel
Someone suggested using Craig's process as a tutorial for doing ones own sampling.
Craig, would it be possible to accommodate this by doing an interactive/live (can't remember the term) reviews you did on Harmony Central? It would make a great instructional video too.
Well, here's a tutorial to get you started on SFZ files. The article makes things seem much more complicated than they need be, because it describes how to embed envelope information and such within the file - but Dimension Pro can do all that stuff, all you have to worry about is creating an SFZ files with the samples you want to load in Dim Pro. But stay tuned - I'll have more about this venture soon. It's been VERY interesting...I just finished creating the SFZ instrument and I gotta say, it sounds really good. Maybe I'll make this part of the blog - I have access to the Cakewalk blog now, and have posted an article already, so that might be a good home for a tutorial.
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rontarrant
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/12 05:22:38
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AndertonWell, here's a tutorial to get you started on SFZ files. Cool! Thank you, sir.
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rontarrant
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/12 05:23:51
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Kev999
What you need to create is an SFZ file, along with the set of samples (audio files) you have created of different notes, and place it within the DimPro multisamples. Often the easiest way is to use an existing SFZ file, make a copy and edit it (using Notepad).
Before you start reading up on SFZ, take a look at some existing files. With some of the simpler ones, you might catch on just by looking.
Thanks. I'll do that, too.
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scook
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/12 09:38:26
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Guitarpima
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/12 12:08:23
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I like your idea of raising the action high to get the pure sound. That being said, could you create a layer with buzz so it can be blended by those who want it?
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Anderton
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/12 12:31:19
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Guitarpima
I like your idea of raising the action high to get the pure sound. That being said, could you create a layer with buzz so it can be blended by those who want it?
That's a good idea, but I don't think blending would work - I'll have to redo the action, and there are bound to be some slight tuning differences. It would probably need to be played on its own. Also, it's very time-consuming to sample every note and get consistent tone, level, etc., and a priority might be just neck and just bridge pickups. The EB-5 is a very interesting bass to sample. I had never played an instrument with a Babicz bridge before, and between that and the design, the sustain is off the hook. I had planned to just let each string decay to nothing, but what happens is the string decays but it stays at a low level for a long, long time...an open string still vibrates at an audible level over 45 seconds after the initial pluck. With single-coil sounds any interference (from computer RF etc.) becomes audible at low levels, so I'm looping each string at around 5-9 seconds to replicate the sustain. I'm also finding the coil split for each pickup to be a good news/bad news situation. The good news is that it allows for a lot more desirable tones. The bad news is I want to sample all of them
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Lanceindastudio
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/12 14:26:35
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Slap bass!
Fingered!
Low string Slides up, sildes down, and up and down in one go!
They have separate presets like this in Spectrasonics Trilogy and Trillian.
Awesome Craig! Thanx!
Lance
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Guitarpima
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/12 16:20:42
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I just looked up that bass. The specs are the same? Swamp ash body, maple neck and a rosewood fingerboard?
I used to have a Warmoth guitar with similar specs. Only, it had a birdseye maple neck and fingerboard. The neck was what Warmoth calls a fatboy and it was great for me since I was mostly playing classical at the time and the change from the classical neck and the Warmoth's neck was not that much difference other than the 2 inch nut width and 1 11/16 on the Warmoth.
Anyway, that guitar had tons of sustain as well. I think people may overlook that combination of woods for their guitars. I miss that guitar at times.
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
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Anderton
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/12 16:57:45
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Lanceindastudio
Slap bass!
Fingered!
Low string Slides up, sildes down, and up and down in one go!
They have separate presets like this in Spectrasonics Trilogy and Trillian.
Awesome Craig! Thanx!
Lance
Well, I did slides and harmonics...but I meant this to be a fun project, not a career! Trillian costs almost $300, and I was planning on doing something [relatively!!] simple and making it a freebie. I've already gotten more carried away than I expected... I used pick, not fingers, to get the attack. You can filter out the pick sound more easily than add an attack.
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Anderton
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/12 17:00:26
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Guitarpima
I just looked up that bass. The specs are the same? Swamp ash body, maple neck and a rosewood fingerboard?
I used to have a Warmoth guitar with similar specs. Only, it had a birdseye maple neck and fingerboard. The neck was what Warmoth calls a fatboy and it was great for me since I was mostly playing classical at the time and the change from the classical neck and the Warmoth's neck was not that much difference other than the 2 inch nut width and 1 11/16 on the Warmoth.
Anyway, that guitar had tons of sustain as well. I think people may overlook that combination of woods for their guitars. I miss that guitar at times.
The wood definitely makes a difference - a swamp ash body gives a nice "snap" that I could best describe as the opposite of "muffled." But I have to say that Babicz bridge is killer. Don't know why it wasn't on my radar before this. The more I play with the EB-5 the more I think I need to get an EB-4...then again, I can just play the samples Oh, and here's another fun thing: I took the B0 string and used pitch-shifting DSP to create separate notes for A#0, A0, G#0, and G0. I didn't just transpose the B0 string; each string has a realistic formant. So really, it's a six-string bass but instead of the sixth string being higher like a guitar, it's more about the sixth string violating the laws of physics and going below the B0. And while I was at it, the highest note on the neck is D#. I couldn't resist using DSP to create a high E note as well. Not quite sure what to do about the harmonics. I'll probably just transpose them to cover an octave instead of getting too fancy. How often to people play bass harmonics?
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Guitarpima
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/12 18:05:19
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Bass harmonics are few really. I can name a few but I would only worry about the harmonics from a major 3rd down from standard up to standard. I've never heard, or seen, anyone use harmonics while a note is fingered. Of course, that does not mean it hasn't been done.
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
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rontarrant
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/12 19:25:52
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Anderton How often to people play bass harmonics? The only times I can think of are: - during bass solos - while accompanying acoustic instruments with no percussion Any other time, I'm pretty sure they'd get lost.
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hockeyjx
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Re: New Toy! Gonna Make a Dim Pro Instrument!
2014/01/12 19:45:59
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Please post a blog on the process Craig, it sounds really cool!
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