Entering Lyrics causes unwanted notes to appear

Has anyone else experienced this problem?  You create a project, then start entering lyrics via the Lyrics View.  At some point, usually well into the song, additional lyrics cause unwanted notes to begin to appear throughout your project.
 
I'd love to know if anyone has discovered how to avoid this, it is utterly frustrating, particularly because undo will not undo the damage!
 
Also frustrating is that after reporting this problem and spending well over an hour on the phone with Cakewalk support, sending files so they could reproduce the problem (which they did), nothing has happened since! 
 
..    Tony
..    HP Pavilion P6000, Windows 7 - 64bit, Sonar X2 Studio (build 306) x64, Tascam US-144 mkII, Yamaha Clavinova CVP-103

tbaroni
Has anyone else experienced this problem?  You create a project, then start entering lyrics via the Lyrics View.  At some point, usually well into the song, additional lyrics cause unwanted notes to begin to appear throughout your project.
 
I'd love to know if anyone has discovered how to avoid this, it is utterly frustrating, particularly because undo will not undo the damage!
 

Hey tbaroni,
Yes, I've had this long running problem also, as well as vice versa (multiple duplicate word or phrase lyric entries showing up in lyrics view when editing notes in staff view). Yeah, it can be aggravating to try to work with. Sorry, no amount of tinkering with settings has helped me either, so yes, with the history of the staff view around here, it looks like it's shaping up to be a bug.  I've not filed a problem report on it.  As CakeAlexS suggests, may-may-maybe we've stu-stumbled onto the Ma-Ma-Max Head-Head-Head-Headroom method of songwriting. 
Best,
HeyDan 

I find it very surprising that a really disturbing bug like this hasn't been handled on the forum before? At least, I don't remember ever reading about it. What is still hiding in the depths waiting to be found....

I am curious now what the variables are since I have never had this issue.  That said, I normally enter the melody first, so maybe that is the difference.
 
We don't talk much about lyrics view here but it is an awesome way to prompt a singer in the studio.

I suggest get the bug confirmed in X3E (which is days away), and if it still exists give us exact steps to repro from a brand new X3E project so it is totally crystal clear leaving nothing to speculation, e.g. like this:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Reenabling-Auto-Track-Zoom-disables-auto-lane-expansion-and-tracks-jump-Confirmed-by-CW-m3005429.aspx
 
If we can all reproduce your issue then you are on your way. So far nobody really has shown us what the exact issue is just the symptoms and a brief summary.
 
Thanks
 
Alex

Hiya tbaroni
I add lyrics to all my songs to play/sing on my tyros 5 keyboard, had a few problems with X2 upgrade and have now gone back to X1 as it works just fine, I mostly use Midi files only.
I shall wait to see it it gets fixed in X3? before I upgrade.

I tried to repro with X3E but could not at my end, that probably doesn't mean it isn't an issue though as we might not have the right steps, maybe Cake had the same problem. Perhaps if you could give us exact steps from a new project, like this it may move things along...
 
(Oh hang on I already wrote this sorry, but the point is still there)....
 
Cheers...

CakeAlexS
I tried to repro with X3E but could not at my end, that probably doesn't mean it isn't an issue though as we might not have the right steps, maybe Cake had the same problem. Perhaps if you could give us exact steps from a new project, like this it may move things along...
 

 
Interesting.
 
So does this mean that if everyone using Sonar and following the exact steps to reproduce an issue is unable to reproduce the issue, then the issue is not a Sonar issue? If so, then every legitimate Sonar problem should be found on alpha testing.
 
Seems to me there are dozens of problems reported on the forum that only a subset of users are able to reproduce. Presumably this is because not everyone is using the same hardware or has the same installed software or operating system. Nonetheless, for some of these problems, code changes in Sonar updates seem to have been curative. If a universally reproducible issue exists, it clearly is a Sonar issue/bug. But if a commonly encountered incompatibility with other commonly used audio software or hardware exists, it probably should be addressed. 
 

I use Midi on all my projects. I also sometimes write the vocal melody on a midi track and add lyrics. Then display this while singing the vocals just in case I forget the lyric or the melodic decisions I made when writing. I do not remember having this problem.
 
Edit: I should add that I do not use the lyrics view and only enter the lyrics on the staff view.
 

tbaroni...You create a project, then start entering lyrics via the Lyrics View.  At some point, usually well into the song, additional lyrics cause unwanted notes to begin to appear throughout your project...

As others have said on this thread, it's surprising this is a virtually unknown topic at the Forum.

I'm here to say that this lyric bug has been in Sonar for a very long time.  There was a time way back early in the Sonar series when lyrics worked fine, then at some point things went wonky, and now, the same bug that's been in Cakewalk for YEARS is still there in X3.

In post #16, tbaroni, you said you have the impression that not many people need to work with lyrics.  I don't think that could be right.  Plenty of songwriters need print outs with lyrics for various situations, but don't need beautiful publisher-ready scores - they just need hand outs for fellow band members, choir members, or even for themselves to read on screen as they dub in a vocal.

In posts #1 and #14 you describe your method of working with lyrics.  The major thing different from how you're working from how I do, is that you're trying to use the Lyrics View for your input.  I don't think that's a good idea.  The Lyric View is for viewing lyrics - It can be used like a telepromter, filling up a monitor screen in a studio for singers to easily see the words.  But you're having to go back to the Staff View to see if things have gone wrong.  That's your self-noted tip:  You should be working in Staff View to begin with so you can catch immediately when the bug pops up.  

When things go as they should, it's fast and easy to input lyrics - but when things go wrong, it's there in Staff View where the bug shows up.

The basic method:  You have a MIDI track with just the melody line.  Click the first note, and when you're set for inputting lyrics, you type one word or syllable and when you use the space bar, the next note is automatically selected.  The text box for typing is right under the note and pointing to it - Very simple and intuitive.

The bug is that as you go along, suddenly Sonar starts inserting new notes instead of going to your next one.  If you've been sailing along, it may take a word or two to notice - but it's totally obvious if you're watching the staff.  When that happens, you can't use undo, as you noted.  You have to select the inserted note, delete it, then select the correct note and type the syllable or word.  Once Sonar has kicked into that bug, you suddenly have to work in s-l-o-w  m-o-t-i-o-n - typing one thing at a time, stopping, selecting the next note, typing - etc You can't sail along with the program automatically stepping through your melody as it should.

Yeah.  For years now.  It's another wonky bit which is just the same old broken programming hiding under the streamlined GUI of the X series.

Randy

Lyrics appear in the Lyrics view as a stream of syllables, each one associated with a note in the track.  If there is not a direct correlation of words to MIDI notes (or words with hyphens) then Sonar sometimes adjusts the notes (It would probably be better if it dropped words instead).  Is this possibly what is going on?  I always add lyrics in Staff View so that I can align the words with the notes.
 
EDIT: Lyrics are not, and never have been, free-form text.  You need to match syllables to notes.
 
Glen

tbaroni
Thanks, Randy, Alex, & Glen, for your input.  I'll definitely have to start working in the staff view while entering the lyrics from now on.  Because I generally have the lyrics in a separate file, I've generally tried to cut and paste them into the lyrics view.  I'll just have to type them in again I suppose....

 
Right - Just pasting into that Lyric View is definitely not the way it works.  When the intended Lyric tool is used in the Staff View, it's great when it behaves.  You just select the first note in your melody-only track, and type away.--that's the way it's supposed to work anyway.
 

tbaroni...I did submit a problem report on this last week.  In fact, I'm here right now because I was wondering why I haven't received even a confirmation of them having received the report.   Odd.  Other times I got an immediate automatic response in my email telling me the report was received...

I think it's possible that when they get a report of a known issue, they groan and put off dealing with it.  Just a theory.
 
RB

You can also check the status of CWBRN 23204 on the link I gave you... You might even be able to add a comment (although often you get locked out if it moves onto the next status step). I've added it to my list anyway as a reproducible bug.
 
At this stage there appears to be no confirmation by Cakewalk on whether there will be an X3F patch or not.
 
Cheers...

Is 23204 the same issue? Thanks...

Thanks...