Helpful ReplyMIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software

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Fleer
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software 2017/04/24 16:11:57 (permalink)
Thanks ZT, didn't have ChordMaps2 yet.

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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software 2017/04/24 16:49:32 (permalink)
ZincTrumpet
Thanks scook.
 
By the way, ChordMaps2 (iPad app) has been on sale and the sale has been extended for a day (5.99 instead of 9.99).
Get it on the App store or see more here ...
http://mugglinworks.com/ChordMaps2/ 
 



That ChordMaps2 looks very interesting!  Too bad I don't have a touchscreen iOS device yet, as there seems to be quite an active iOS music app scene happening!
 
The most interesting chord app that I have found for Windows so far is (free) tonespace 2.5.  It is both standalone and a VST 64 plugin.  Used as a plugin, this appears to have chording abilities like Cthulhu, minus the arpeggiator.  But I think the chord functions are a bit easier to grasp in this compared with Cthulhu.  Very educational in that it allows you to visualize the chord spaces.  Cthulhu messes with me in the way that it remaps the keyboard.  If I play a key on the keyboard, I am going to expect that I get that that root note in any chord played.  I do get why Steve Duda did it that way in Ctulhu, but it somehow doesn't click for me.  Take a look here ...
http://www.mucoder.net/en/tonespace/
 
And for a really cool iOS app, check out this physical modeled guitar instrument from Jordan Rudess, the keyboardist of Dream Theater.  He's a big fan of using iOS for musical creativity, and started his own software company Wizdom Music.
 
 
Jordan Rudess Explains GeoShred at NAMM 2016


DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
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abacab
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software 2017/04/24 17:00:17 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby ZincTrumpet 2017/04/24 18:25:25
scook
abacab
 You can simply add a root note, then enter "ctrl +3" or "ctrl + 7" for a Major triad or 7th

FWIW, there are CAL scripts that may be bound to keystrokes to perform the same tasks in SONAR. It is pretty easy to use the existing chord scripts to create your own. I went as far as a small autohotkey menu to use instead of keybinding. Certainly not as nice as a fully integrated tool though.




Thanks, scook!  Good to know ...
 
Really looking forward to the Bakers taking a look at the MIDI suggestions over at the Bakery, and showing us MIDI guys some love again. 
 
Sonar is awesome for recording music, but it still lags behind the competition in music composition tools.
 
I recently took Cubase Elements 9 for a test drive, and discovered that it has these features:
 
The chord functions provide you with many possibilities for working with chords.
 
Chord Events:
1. Root note
2. Type
3. Tension
4. Bass note

The chord functions allow you to:
• Build chord progressions by adding chord events to the chord track.
• Convert chord events to MIDI.
• Use the chord track to control MIDI playback.
• Use the chord track voicing to change the pitches of your MIDI.
• Extract chord events from MIDI data to get an overview of the harmonic structure of a MIDI file.
• Record chord events with a MIDI keyboard.
 
> The Chord Assistant allows you to use a chord as a starting point to get suggestions for the next chord
 
> The Circle of Fifths mode of the Chord Assistant shows the chords in an interactive visualization of the circle of fifths.
 
> Voicings - determine how chord events are set up. They define the vertical spacing and order of the pitches in a chord, but also the instrumentation and genre of a musical piece.  For example, a C chord can be spread over a wide range of pitches, and a pianist will choose different notes than a guitarist. The pianist may also play completely different pitches for different musical genres.
• You can set up voicing for the entire chord track in the chord track Inspector.
• You can set up voicings for individual chord events on the Voicing pop-up menu on the
info line.  Voicing library allows you to select Guitar, Piano, or Basic as a voicing library.
 
> Scale Events - Scale events inform you which chord events fit in a specific sequence of notes that belong to
a specific root note.  Cubase automatically creates scale events for your chord events.
 
> Chord Editing - You can apply chord events from the chord track to notes in the MIDI editor.  Applies the chord events from the chord track to the selected notes in the MIDI editor. The chord event that is effective at the position of the first selected note is applied to the selected notes, which are then transposed. Only the basic chord type is applied. Tensions are not taken into account.
 
Link Playback to Chord Track - the events of a MIDI loop are transposed to play back in context with the chord track. Note that you need a chord track with chord events for this. If this option is activated, and you insert a MIDI loop into the project, Follow Chord Track is automatically activated for the track.
 
> MIDI Editor - The note events get different colors depending on whether they match the current chord, scale, or both.
 
> Chord Pads - allow you to play with chords, and to change their voicings and tensions. In terms of harmonies and rhythms, they allow for a more playful and spontaneous approach to composition than the chord track functions.
You can:
• Perform with chords in realtime via a MIDI keyboard.
• Record your performance as MIDI events on a MIDI or instrument track or even on the
chord track.

DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
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Fleer
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software 2017/04/24 17:11:16 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abacab 2017/04/24 18:42:51
abacab
 
 
 
 
And for a really cool iOS app, check out this physical modeled guitar instrument from Jordan Rudess, the keyboardist of Dream Theater.  He's a big fan of using iOS for musical creativity, and started his own software company Wizdom Music.
 
 
Jordan Rudess Explains GeoShred at NAMM 2016



Got that one and love it. Pretty nice.

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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abacab
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software 2017/04/24 17:25:17 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby ZincTrumpet 2017/04/24 18:32:21
ZincTrumpet
 
Now to try the Waveform demo ... 
 



Have fun with that!  If you can't get something happening in a few minutes, you aren't trying, LOL!
 
The videos are helpful, https://www.tracktion.com/training/videos
 
But don't overlook the user guide here: https://www.tracktion.com/training/manuals
 
The more I play with Waveform, the more I like it.  It doesn't have a project based chord track like Cubase, but the Pattern Generator sold me.  Cubase doesn't have that!  Even though you are limited to working in one track at a time, it's still extremely useful.  You can set up a chord track, bass track, and melody track in no time!
 
If Sonar still doesn't have a chord track by the time I wear out Waveform, I may take a crack at Cubase again.  The project based chord functions in there are very good.  But in the meantime. I'm all set!

DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
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ZincTrumpet
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software 2017/04/24 18:23:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Fleer 2017/04/24 18:25:14
Fleer
Thanks ZT, didn't have ChordMaps2 yet.



No probs Fleer. I held off for ages thinking I would get it when it was on sale but I missed the end of the sale this  morning. Anyway I emailed the dev (Steve Mugglin) who very kindly said he would extend the sale by a day! Now that's the kind of dev I like :) From the quick dabble I had with it I am gonna love it for coming up with new chord progression ideas. 
 
abacab
ZincTrumpet
Thanks scook.
 
By the way, ChordMaps2 (iPad app) has been on sale and the sale has been extended for a day (5.99 instead of 9.99).
Get it on the App store or see more here ...
http://mugglinworks.com/ChordMaps2/ 
 

That ChordMaps2 looks very interesting!  Too bad I don't have a touchscreen iOS device yet, as there seems to be quite an active iOS music app scene happening!
 

 
Seriously, I have always been an Android user but the wealth of music production apps for iPad forced me to get one. My only regret is that I got an iPad Mini 2 which is great but the screen is kinda small for some of the more complex music related app UIs. I plan on getting an 9.7 inch screen iPad which should help.
 
abacab
 
The most interesting chord app that I have found for Windows so far is (free) tonespace 2.5.  It is both standalone and a VST 64 plugin.  Used as a plugin, this appears to have chording abilities like Cthulhu, minus the arpeggiator.  But I think the chord functions are a bit easier to grasp in this compared with Cthulhu.  Very educational in that it allows you to visualize the chord spaces.  Cthulhu messes with me in the way that it remaps the keyboard.  If I play a key on the keyboard, I am going to expect that I get that that root note in any chord played.  I do get why Steve Duda did it that way in Ctulhu, but it somehow doesn't click for me.  Take a look here ...
http://www.mucoder.net/en/tonespace/
 

 
See my initial response to your first post ;) I tend to agree with your take on Cthulu vs Tonespace.
 
abacab
 
And for a really cool iOS app, check out this physical modeled guitar instrument from Jordan Rudess, the keyboardist of Dream Theater.  He's a big fan of using iOS for musical creativity, and started his own software company Wizdom Music.
 
Jordan Rudess Explains GeoShred at NAMM 2016





Wow! That is one cool app which I also need to check out  Dream Theater (and Liquid Tension Experiment) are up there among my all time favorites since the days of Images and Words (actually prefer that era). I could only ever dream to play guitar like John Petrucci and Jordan Rudess is a true master of the keys.
 
ZT
 
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Fleer
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software 2017/04/24 18:25:53 (permalink)
Yeah, it it's highly playable with exquisite sounds. Quite amazed at the quality of this one. Best of my pad.

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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ZincTrumpet
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software 2017/04/24 18:30:30 (permalink)
abacab
 
I recently took Cubase Elements 9 for a test drive, and discovered that it has these features:
 
The chord functions provide you with many possibilities for working with chords.
 
Chord Events:
1. Root note
2. Type
3. Tension
4. Bass note

The chord functions allow you to:
• Build chord progressions by adding chord events to the chord track.
• Convert chord events to MIDI.
• Use the chord track to control MIDI playback.
• Use the chord track voicing to change the pitches of your MIDI.
• Extract chord events from MIDI data to get an overview of the harmonic structure of a MIDI file.
• Record chord events with a MIDI keyboard.
 
> The Chord Assistant allows you to use a chord as a starting point to get suggestions for the next chord
 
> The Circle of Fifths mode of the Chord Assistant shows the chords in an interactive visualization of the circle of fifths.
 
> Voicings - determine how chord events are set up. They define the vertical spacing and order of the pitches in a chord, but also the instrumentation and genre of a musical piece.  For example, a C chord can be spread over a wide range of pitches, and a pianist will choose different notes than a guitarist. The pianist may also play completely different pitches for different musical genres.
• You can set up voicing for the entire chord track in the chord track Inspector.
• You can set up voicings for individual chord events on the Voicing pop-up menu on the
info line.  Voicing library allows you to select Guitar, Piano, or Basic as a voicing library.
 
> Scale Events - Scale events inform you which chord events fit in a specific sequence of notes that belong to
a specific root note.  Cubase automatically creates scale events for your chord events.
 
> Chord Editing - You can apply chord events from the chord track to notes in the MIDI editor.  Applies the chord events from the chord track to the selected notes in the MIDI editor. The chord event that is effective at the position of the first selected note is applied to the selected notes, which are then transposed. Only the basic chord type is applied. Tensions are not taken into account.
 
Link Playback to Chord Track - the events of a MIDI loop are transposed to play back in context with the chord track. Note that you need a chord track with chord events for this. If this option is activated, and you insert a MIDI loop into the project, Follow Chord Track is automatically activated for the track.
 
> MIDI Editor - The note events get different colors depending on whether they match the current chord, scale, or both.
 
> Chord Pads - allow you to play with chords, and to change their voicings and tensions. In terms of harmonies and rhythms, they allow for a more playful and spontaneous approach to composition than the chord track functions.
You can:
• Perform with chords in realtime via a MIDI keyboard.
• Record your performance as MIDI events on a MIDI or instrument track or even on the
chord track.




Nice summary abacab. Funnily enough I have been watching a lot of the Cubase Elements 9 videos about the chord functions/circle of fifths and the other stuff and it does a lot more than I realized. I will definitely get the upgrade from Cubase AI that came with my interface. It's a no brainer for 40 bucks. Then I just have to wait for a sale on Waveform!!
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ZincTrumpet
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software 2017/04/24 18:34:52 (permalink)
abacab
ZincTrumpet
 
Now to try the Waveform demo ... 
 



Have fun with that!  If you can't get something happening in a few minutes, you aren't trying, LOL!
 
The videos are helpful, https://www.tracktion.com/training/videos
 
But don't overlook the user guide here: https://www.tracktion.com/training/manuals
 
The more I play with Waveform, the more I like it.  It doesn't have a project based chord track like Cubase, but the Pattern Generator sold me.  Cubase doesn't have that!  Even though you are limited to working in one track at a time, it's still extremely useful.  You can set up a chord track, bass track, and melody track in no time!
 
If Sonar still doesn't have a chord track by the time I wear out Waveform, I may take a crack at Cubase again.  The project based chord functions in there are very good.  But in the meantime. I'm all set!




Cheers abacab. I really look forward to this type of functionality in Sonar one day (is there a smilie for dreaming?).
Let's hope the bakers are reading this thread!
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abacab
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software 2017/04/24 19:03:56 (permalink)
ZincTrumpet
abacab
ZincTrumpet
 
Now to try the Waveform demo ... 
 



Have fun with that!  If you can't get something happening in a few minutes, you aren't trying, LOL!
 
The videos are helpful, https://www.tracktion.com/training/videos
 
But don't overlook the user guide here: https://www.tracktion.com/training/manuals
 
The more I play with Waveform, the more I like it.  It doesn't have a project based chord track like Cubase, but the Pattern Generator sold me.  Cubase doesn't have that!  Even though you are limited to working in one track at a time, it's still extremely useful.  You can set up a chord track, bass track, and melody track in no time!
 
If Sonar still doesn't have a chord track by the time I wear out Waveform, I may take a crack at Cubase again.  The project based chord functions in there are very good.  But in the meantime. I'm all set!




Cheers abacab. I really look forward to this type of functionality in Sonar one day (is there a smilie for dreaming?).
Let's hope the bakers are reading this thread!




Bottom line for me is that it came down to deciding to spend my $99 on either Waveform or Cubase.
 
I got more done in 30 minutes with Waveform than I did in 30 days with Cubase.  Not only is it a creativity booster, it is a productivity booster!!! 
 
Cubase is deeper, and once you learn it probably very powerful.  I just burned out on the learning curve and  wanted to play.  Waveform was just what the doctor ordered!
 
As far as the Bakery is concerned, I dropped my two cents about Cubase chord features into this thread about the chord track for Sonar yesterday.  Go ahead and vote it up!  http://bakery.cakewalk.com/Idea/12116/Chord-Track-for-Sonar-Platinum#15367
 
While you are there, check out the post in the same thread requesting Waveform features be added to the Piano Roll, courtesy of vladasyn.  http://bakery.cakewalk.com/Idea/12116/Chord-Track-for-Sonar-Platinum#15341
Might as well vote for that one too!!!

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abacab
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software 2017/04/24 19:21:31 (permalink)
ZincTrumpet
 
See my initial response to your first post ;) I tend to agree with your take on Cthulu vs Tonespace.
 



Yup!  Thanks for that!  That's where I first heard about Tonespace.  I've got the VST inserted into a Waveform MIDI track at the moment and looking through the user guide.
 
Just figured out how to record the chords output by Tonespace to a MIDI track by setting MIDI out to VST host and then recording the output from that track to another instrument track.
 
Nice combo!  Adds a chorder to the tools already in Waveform!
 
That's an easy way to play chords into a track from your controller, then use the MIDI editor to change up any chord types or tensions as you wish.

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ZincTrumpet
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software 2017/04/24 19:47:32 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abacab 2017/04/24 20:08:32
Sounds like songwriting bliss to me mate!
BTW I voted up those posts. Fingers crossed.
ZincTrumpet
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software 2017/04/25 14:30:55 (permalink)
I had a quick play with Waveform and it's definitely worth checking out for making quick compositions!
Love the way you can very quickly come up with usable chord progressions, bass lines and melodies.
What drove me nuts was the white noise every few seconds on the demo version. 
 
I wasn't all that bothered by Biotek or Collective (the abacab patch was cool though  ) as I have that covered with other products. What I think would be great is if they did a cut down version without Waveform, Collective or Master Mix for say 40 bucks that still had the core MIDI composition engine in tact. I would grab that in an instant.
 
Anyway, I still have plenty to check out in Waveform so I better get back to it.
Also ChordMaps2 turned out to be superb!
 
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loopyd
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software 2017/04/25 14:39:30 (permalink)
More love for us MIDI people!  I grew up with an SBLive 5.1 and some garage hardware keyboards!
Oh my god, those cubase controls.  *download download download*
You haven't lived or died until you've tasted the electronic death (Magic blue smoke!  Yoiy!)
 
 
In the meantime, OP, play with this:  http://www.everyonepiano.com/Software.html
 
Its kind of gooky and crazy,  you can add extra features that no one needs, but it gets your theory down-pat.  Even displays notes on staff for teaching on MIDI note-on.  Its fun to play with at least.

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abacab
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Re: MIDI Scale/Chord Composition Assistance Software 2017/04/25 18:35:47 (permalink)
ZincTrumpet
I had a quick play with Waveform and it's definitely worth checking out for making quick compositions!
Love the way you can very quickly come up with usable chord progressions, bass lines and melodies.
What drove me nuts was the white noise every few seconds on the demo version. 
 
I wasn't all that bothered by Biotek or Collective (the abacab patch was cool though  ) as I have that covered with other products. What I think would be great is if they did a cut down version without Waveform, Collective or Master Mix for say 40 bucks that still had the core MIDI composition engine in tact. I would grab that in an instant.
 
Anyway, I still have plenty to check out in Waveform so I better get back to it.
Also ChordMaps2 turned out to be superb!
 
Suffering from too many new toys and not enough time 




I checked out the controllers pane in the Waveform MIDI Editor (PRV) last night.  It is very easy and responsive to work with using the pencil, line, and eraser tools.  The various controllers you select are viewed in separate lanes so you can easily see what all is going on with all of them concurrently without switching the lane to be viewed.  You can switch the individual lane views off if you don't need to see them  Plus if you float the PRV you can make the window as big as you need.  Well done!
 
Collective comes with the basic Waveform edition, as well as a Biotek demo.  Maybe I have too many synths now, but Collective would have been much cooler if I was just starting out with soft synths.  I think I have most of those sounds covered already, so maybe a bit of overlap.  I plan to give it a going over to see if there is anything unique under the hood, and judging by the presets, it's a decent collection.  Biotek is much more interesting for its ambient and atmospheric sounds. The morphing feature is well done!  But not going to pay extra for Biotek. 

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