lawajava
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/17 19:58:51
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John T
Another way of looking at it, is that this is a "making things simple and obvious for new users" feature. I very much welcome stuff like that, as the more new users Sonar can attract and retain, the better for me in the end, as the company is a stronger position.
I've long thought that the remaining open battleground between DAWs is mostly around with ease-of-use and shallowness of learning curve.
Thanks to Cakewalk for working to make things easier than ever. I agree with your comment that if it helps to get users running faster they can become fans quicker and that can help contribute to keeping the fan base active. For me it seems like a useless feature. I would insert a softsynth to get up and running with my midi tracks. That alone saves about five clicks from the new feature demo with regards to midi tracks. For audio, since I'm a routine user, I have preferences for my audio track routing including auxiliary tracks and busses, and color preferences, and track icon preferences. Either jumping from a track template or starting up from a template project file gets me to where I would want to go way faster than this new feature. But for a beginner, this looks like it could be a stress saver. So, mild, polite applause from me to the bakers for this one.
post edited by lawajava - 2016/02/17 20:13:10
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Anderton
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/17 21:03:48
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Funkybot
For instance, 1) clicking the Add Track button should just automatically add an audio track routed to the master output. One click. Covers probably 90% of audio track use cases. Fortunately, the Add Track flyout settings persist. So if you have an audio track assigned to the master, it's two clicks - one to add track, one to click on Create. The assignment won't change unless you change it.
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Funkybot
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/17 22:05:15
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Anderton
Funkybot
For instance, 1) clicking the Add Track button should just automatically add an audio track routed to the master output. One click. Covers probably 90% of audio track use cases.
Fortunately, the Add Track flyout settings persist. So if you have an audio track assigned to the master, it's two clicks - one to add track, one to click on Create. The assignment won't change unless you change it.
That's still 100% MORE clicks than my proposal. ;-) I'm half-joking in that statement, but serious in the overall point of the prio feedback: there should be a concerted effort to reduce clicks, eliminate pop-ups, clean up menus, etc. I've been using a DAW well known for workflow as of late, but keeping an eye on Sonar updates, as I was a longtime user and want to see what's going on. What struck me in a recent video (wasn't this one - but What struck me in a recent video (wasn't this one - but same point) was the number of additional clicks due to the various options Sonar presents users BEFORE they do something. Want to load an instrument? Answer these questions first, review these options, check the right boxes, then click OK. I just want to click and drag an instrument into a project, no questions asked. If I want to setup multiple outputs, make it easy for me to do that after the fact (which features like templates already do). But most times I just want that instrument loaded onto a channel and fast. At work, we frequently talk about the 90-10 rule when designing a particular feature. What are 90% of the people going to be doing, and how do we make that as easy as possible for them? Then assume the user has no prior knowledge on the topic and ask, can they figure it out? If you can remove a pop-up box here, a mouse click there, clean up a menu item here, you'll end up with a faster, more intuitive to use DAW.
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Anderton
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/17 22:12:36
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Funkybot
Anderton
Funkybot
For instance, 1) clicking the Add Track button should just automatically add an audio track routed to the master output. One click. Covers probably 90% of audio track use cases.
Fortunately, the Add Track flyout settings persist. So if you have an audio track assigned to the master, it's two clicks - one to add track, one to click on Create. The assignment won't change unless you change it.
That's still 100% MORE clicks than my proposal. ;-)
I'm half-joking in that statement, but... I understand that, but think how upset all the MIDI people would be if Add Track was a one-click solution for audio but didn't accommodate MIDI. Ultimately, people who've used SONAR for a long time have templates and such that provide super-fast solutions, or just hit the Insert key to add a track, which is even easier than grabbing a mouse and navigating it to a "one-click" solution. I suspect the Add Track flyout was based on new users getting lost in the menus and drop-down items. And I can see that. If you'd never seen SONAR before and wanted to add a track, a button that says Add Track is probably more helpful than knowing to right-click on an empty space, or go to an Insert menu. But I also think that DAWs in general need a new paradigm, and have thought so for years. No other DAW is significantly easier to use; no one has truly "cracked the code" yet on how to make the whole process of making music on a computer less intimidating. I think some of the responsibility for that falls on Apple and Microsoft as well.
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joel77
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/17 23:54:40
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artturner
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 00:07:07
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John T
Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
azslow3
ampfixer
Another way to do something that's already pretty easy. Meh, sorry.
Right clip menu, keyboard shortcut, control surface binding... But on that place I currently see time display, which is definitively more useful that this "+" button. Is it going to be removed?
No, this won't be removed.
Ah, cool. I do use that from time to time. Useful to have two different time-bases visible sometimes, eg: MBT and absolute time, or (in a recent case) absolute time and samples. I would have missed it a bit, I think.
This thread is a good example of how differently we all use Sonar. I couldn't function at all without being able to monitor MBT and time simultaneously, but I'm often writing cues to specific time lengths.
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noynekker
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 00:28:01
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The best response to this new feature I've seen here in the forums is that it really helps the newbies. Creating new tracks could get more intuitive, making the learning curve to start recording quicker . . . less steep. This will be good in the long run for the Cakewalk product. Those who have used Cakewalk for a long time will be bored by this new feature, and may even have to rewire part of their brains to adapt. (Or just keep creating tracks the old way)
In any case, I see why they have done it, but now we need something for the long time users to be added next month . . . to keep the balance working and moving ahead.
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Vastman
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 00:35:04
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Great move... very simple, very obvious, gives lots of choices ( pop up help/explanations would be even better for newbs)... and yes I'll use it... it's RIGHT THERE! My best friend found sonar inscruitable (X series)... spent a lot of money and ended in Ableton...it was simpler enough he could grasp it. Sonar is HUGELY powerful... and NEW users are very challenged and anything to simplify/streamline/intuit things is good. I think this is great... I've been muckin' on and off since Sonar 5 or 6... and I still learn new stuff all the time... almost every time I visit this forum. Think what a NEW user has to contend with! Luv you bakers... ur doin' nice things!
post edited by Vastman - 2016/02/18 00:50:21
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 04:08:54
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Looks good, I'll be using it when necessary.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 04:19:07
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I'd love to see Sonar move in the direction of "FEWER menus, windows, and clicks" to truly speed up the workflow. For instance, 1) clicking the Add Track button should just automatically add an audio track routed to the master output. One click. Covers probably 90% of audio track use cases.2) Clicking and dragging an instrument to the Project pane should automatically add a single instrument track routed to the master bus. Single click and drag operation, covers most use cases. No pop up windows, no extraneous options. Both these already exist. For number one Press "Insert" in the track view or if it's a button in particular you need just assign "Add track" as a button in the custom module. For number two just open "insert soft synth Options" (found in the synth rack) set up your preference, in your case single instrument track and deselect "Ask this every time"
post edited by FastBikerBoy - 2016/02/18 04:33:16
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twelvetone
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 05:54:36
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Please make the hard things easier, not the easy things easier.
post edited by twelvetone - 2016/02/18 07:07:00
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chilldanny
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 07:27:07
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I think the streamlining of functions like adding tracks (with advanced options) etc is a good move. I hope this becomes an ongoing mission by the bakers to simplify/unify many aspects of Sonar. An area of the Sonar X series and beyond that I've never liked is the amount of menus strewn across the workspace. Some are right click, some are within the main program menus, others are within the Skylight interface. I think, and hope, the bakers see this too and intend to tidy it all up a bit. Which is always a good thing right? 
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jpetersen
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 08:28:05
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☄ Helpfulby MArwood 2016/02/18 12:55:22
We now have five different ways of inserting a new track.
1) Main menu > Insert Audio/Midi track submenus
2) Right click > Insert Audio/Midi track submenus
3) "Insert" key > Little dialog to choose Audio or Midi track
4) Choose synth > Insert soft synth options dialog
5) This button.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 08:48:09
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twelvetone
Please make the hard things easier, not the easy things easier.
Please describe further..........
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Paul P
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 09:12:31
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jpetersen
3) "Insert" key > Little dialog to choose Audio or Midi track
My Insert key (which I haven't touched) just inserts a new track without asking anything.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 09:45:05
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not so thrilling really ...
I hope it does not become a newbie feature that makes work with existing functionality more cumbersome i.e. fingers crossed the coding of this does not interefere with (yes i know) legacy control surface support - at the moment i can still add a track without a single mouse click (and arm and assign IN/OUT) and i hope it remains like that ...
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FCCfirstclass
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 09:57:42
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Skyline_UK
I like that.
Add me too!
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jpetersen
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 10:48:41
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Paul P
jpetersen
3) "Insert" key > Little dialog to choose Audio or Midi track
My Insert key (which I haven't touched) just inserts a new track without asking anything.
Curious. I looked around for a preference setting that might influence this but found none.
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azslow3
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 11:05:48
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FreeFlyBertl
not so thrilling really ...
I hope it does not become a newbie feature that makes work with existing functionality more cumbersome i.e. fingers crossed the coding of this does not interefere with (yes i know) legacy control surface support - at the moment i can still add a track without a single mouse click (and arm and assign IN/OUT) and i hope it remains like that ...
Since there is no "new" CS support, there is no "legacy" ;) Track insert share the code with "Insert" key binding (in fact all Control Surfaces "commands" are what is available as key bindings), so if one is broken other is not going to work either. Arm and IN/OUT are unrelated to insert. In/Out is already a bit broken for Instrument tracks (CS API knows nothing about them). Arm was not touched. From what I observe, CS Mute/Solo was not affected by the latest changes in related algorithms.
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Anderton
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 11:30:46
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jpetersen
Paul P
jpetersen
3) "Insert" key > Little dialog to choose Audio or Midi track
My Insert key (which I haven't touched) just inserts a new track without asking anything.
Curious. I looked around for a preference setting that might influence this but found none.
It's based on the last track type you inserted. If you last inserted: - Audio track = Insert adds audio track
- MIDI track = Insert adds MIDI track
- Instrument track = Insert adds MIDI track
- Track Folder = Inserts audio or MIDI track, depending on last track type inserted prior to inserting track folder
- Blank project (no tracks to provide precedent) = Asks if you want to insert audio or MIDI track
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
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JayCee99
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 12:11:25
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☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2016/02/18 12:39:11
Meh. Cool I guess but not sure it was the best use of Cakewalks limited resources.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 12:36:00
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☄ Helpfulby MArwood 2016/02/18 12:58:36
rlared
Meh. Cool I guess but not sure it was the best use of Cakewalks limited resources.
Indeed. For example, I would have much rather the time and effort had been put into (finally) doing something about the appalling graphics that show whether a VST plug-in on or off. I'm sorry, but with my eyesight, I simply cannot tell the difference between such similar shades of grey: 
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BobF
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 12:41:55
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IIRC, GUI enhancement and skinning were mentioned as Spring '16 items to expect. By itself, I agree on the 'meh' assessment of this specific piece. BUT ... it's entirely possible that the underneath work done to do this Add Track bit will provide the foundation for a whole lot more things to come.
I guess time will tell.
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stevec
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 12:51:51
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BobF
IIRC, GUI enhancement and skinning were mentioned as Spring '16 items to expect. By itself, I agree on the 'meh' assessment of this specific piece. BUT ... it's entirely possible that the underneath work done to do this Add Track bit will provide the foundation for a whole lot more things to come.
I guess time will tell.
That's exactly what I was thinking.... I don't see the bakers changing the FX bin graphic by itself if some type of custom UI is coming down the pike. Plus, the UI of this new Add Track tool as shown in the video doesn't necessarily look like a "traditional" SONAR dialog, so could be a sign of things to come. I hope.
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Anderton
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 12:55:21
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☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2016/02/18 13:25:22
SteveStrummerUK
I'm sorry, but with my eyesight, I simply cannot tell the difference between such similar shades of grey:
IIRC, there was a movie made about this called "50 Shades of Gray."
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Paul P
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 13:00:59
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jpetersen
Paul P
My Insert key (which I haven't touched) just inserts a new track without asking anything.
Curious. I looked around for a preference setting that might influence this but found none.
Same here. To get rid of it (I don't like surprises) I first bound Insert to "do nothing". This caused Insert to scroll the Console down if it was not completely visible. I then bound numpad-0 to "do nothing" and that seems to have killed it for good. So there's apparently two levels of hidden global binding on the Insert key.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 13:11:53
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Anderton
SteveStrummerUK
I'm sorry, but with my eyesight, I simply cannot tell the difference between such similar shades of grey:
IIRC, there was a movie made about this called "50 Shades of Gray."
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Snehankur
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 13:12:40
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..and adjacent 2 shades out of 50 have been chosen.
Why not some other color for active ones anything apart from [R=G=B]
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Paul P
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 13:24:58
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Anderton
IIRC, there was a movie made about this called "50 Shades of Gray."
Would have been a more fitting name for the post-Sonar 8 UI than "Skylight". "Twilight" would also have been more accurate. I've been playing with colours quite a bit of late getting rid of, or lightening up, a lot of grey, but there are many items still not accessible (even using pre-Platinum colour options). Leaves several grey areas in a sea of colour. While I don't have too much of a problem with fx highlighting in the fx bin (I agree it's not pretty), I would also really like to have control over the fx on/off/selected colours [and those thick black lines between clip lanes and clip header text while were at it]. So here's a vote for more colour control along with new features / redesigns.
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Unknowen
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Re: Get a sneak preview of new Add Track Menu [Coming Soon]
2016/02/18 13:33:18
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SteveStrummerUK
rlared
Meh. Cool I guess but not sure it was the best use of Cakewalks limited resources.
Indeed.
For example, I would have much rather the time and effort had been put into (finally) doing something about the appalling graphics that show whether a VST plug-in on or off.
I'm sorry, but with my eyesight, I simply cannot tell the difference between such similar shades of grey:
Green for ON and Red for off would be great!
Hay look, Somethings are not locked in stone... lol 3/18/2019
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