Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support

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pjl
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/29 01:51:31 (permalink)
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post edited by pjl - 2009/01/29 02:09:37

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#31
pjl
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/29 02:04:54 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: pjl


ORIGINAL: dontletmedrown

I guess Noel never used the Lynx mixer. It doesn't let you PAN.




But I think that's more likely tp be a limitation of the card. ADM is just hardware monitoring so it can't do anything the hardware can't. Iwould not have thought that Lynx would make a mixer that doesn't allow panning if their hardware supported it.
post edited by pjl - 2009/01/29 02:10:01

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#32
HMusikk
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/29 02:34:32 (permalink)

Where the heck does this statement come from? How does David A Hoatson know this, and where was this published/not published???

Has it ever occur to you that the people making all (develop) the things we ”play” with can talk to each other without having to use this forum…
#33
jinga8
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/29 02:50:05 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: HMusikk


Where the heck does this statement come from? How does David A Hoatson know this, and where was this published/not published???

Has it ever occur to you that the people making all (develop) the things we ”play” with can talk to each other without having to use this forum…

Are you kidding? All I want is a source for a quote. I'm not asking for the world. Just a clarification of facts. Has it ever occurred to me that people other than my "buddies" have viable and worthwile opinions? Why, yes it has, thanx....
#34
dontletmedrown
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/29 09:15:03 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: pjl

But I think that's more likely tp be a limitation of the card. ADM is just hardware monitoring so it can't do anything the hardware can't. Iwould not have thought that Lynx would make a mixer that doesn't allow panning if their hardware supported it.


Yeah. Funny thing is, Paul told me they will be adding panning and other goodies to the Lynx mixer in the future, so it is capable.
#35
John
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/29 09:56:31 (permalink)
A quote from Noel:

I'll let you in on a secret. In early SONAR 8 we actually implemented DM. ASIO DM is one of the poorest areas of the ASIO specification and very incomplete. We ran into so many vague areas with the ASIO spec and differences in manufacturers implementations that we ultimately ended up scrapping it. Additionally most if not all HW vendors have their own console applications that implement their own custom direct monitoring mapping that is superior than any host based ASIO DM implementation could rival. We decided that we'd let this one go for now.

This makes a lot of sense to me. As noted in a post I did above its not an issue for me. I can't say I have had any reason to miss this ability. If one needs this and wants a bullet proof way to monitor introducing a mixer into the signal chain is a very workable solution.

Best
John
#36
tazman
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/29 12:53:42 (permalink)
Lynx has been talking about a new mixer for a VERY long time, but so far nothing. They need to stop letting the engineers design the mixer and/or get feedback from users (I am an engineer and sometime ergonomics is not our forte)


ORIGINAL: dontletmedrown


ORIGINAL: pjl

But I think that's more likely tp be a limitation of the card. ADM is just hardware monitoring so it can't do anything the hardware can't. Iwould not have thought that Lynx would make a mixer that doesn't allow panning if their hardware supported it.


Yeah. Funny thing is, Paul told me they will be adding panning and other goodies to the Lynx mixer in the future, so it is capable.

#37
Chuck E. Jesus
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/29 13:40:22 (permalink)
i use and Emu 1820 interface with the Patchmix app for direct monitoring...i have a preset using the Patchmix's built in FX (a bit of compression and verb) for recording vox, and then i mute the direct monitoring when playing back from Sonar 8...not too big of a hassle, but it would be nice to be able to switch back and forth using only S8....
#38
dontletmedrown
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/29 19:13:38 (permalink)
So... I guess we will probably not be seeing this is 8.0.3?
#39
Lay In Wait
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/29 21:18:18 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: dontletmedrown


ORIGINAL: Noel
...Additionally most if not all HW vendors have their own console applications that implement their own custom direct monitoring mapping that is superior than any host based ASIO DM implementation could rival...



I guess Noel never used the Lynx mixer. It doesn't let you PAN.


WOW, I had no idea. With a product of that caliber, you would figure that panning incoming audio is a given. Thats a ridiculous oversight. Even $200 interfaces allow that.

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#40
Guitarpima
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/29 23:10:17 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Chuck E. Jesus

i use and Emu 1820 interface with the Patchmix app for direct monitoring...i have a preset using the Patchmix's built in FX (a bit of compression and verb) for recording vox, and then i mute the direct monitoring when playing back from Sonar 8...not too big of a hassle, but it would be nice to be able to switch back and forth using only S8....


I too use the fx in patchmix with my 1616m's mic input. Although, I put the fx after the send so that cakewalk records the vox as a dry signal. It's best to do this if you need to use V-Vocal to fix a few things as V-Vocal would prefer a dry track. I do put the compressor before the send though.

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#41
HMusikk
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/30 02:20:20 (permalink)

8.0.3

8.3
#42
bunnyfluffer
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/30 03:13:33 (permalink)
yeah recording monitoring latency is the bane of DAW recording.

I have an rme 96/52 and I direct monitor on larger projects - it's essential sometimes. I've worked with a number of musicians and singers who are very sensitive to timing issues - so I have to hardware bypass whatever is being recorded.

Right now I'm actually working out a hardware monitoring solution to have monitor only effects that don't print - like light reverb or delay - especially for vocalist. The 96/52 doesn't pan either I don't think - I actually need a hardware submixer with in line effects - I'm thinking about getting one of these:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/402VLZ3/
#43
Chuck E. Jesus
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/30 10:10:40 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Guitarpima


ORIGINAL: Chuck E. Jesus

i use and Emu 1820 interface with the Patchmix app for direct monitoring...i have a preset using the Patchmix's built in FX (a bit of compression and verb) for recording vox, and then i mute the direct monitoring when playing back from Sonar 8...not too big of a hassle, but it would be nice to be able to switch back and forth using only S8....


I too use the fx in patchmix with my 1616m's mic input. Although, I put the fx after the send so that cakewalk records the vox as a dry signal. It's best to do this if you need to use V-Vocal to fix a few things as V-Vocal would prefer a dry track. I do put the compressor before the send though.



yes, FX after the ASIO send, record dry...
#44
dbmusic
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/30 11:46:15 (permalink)
Since this is recording playback monitoring latency is such an issue, you would think somebody would have figured it out by now. Personally I monitor directly through hardware. If you have mixer with a couple of Aux sends per channel and an external effects unit (reverb), you can do the following:

Send your Sonar mix to your audio interface stereo outs. From your audio interface run your stereo outs to say channels 3 and 4 of your mixer. Faders of 3 and 4 should be all the way down since we don't want to feed these signals to the mixers main outs. Run a line from your mixer's Aux 1 out to your monitor setup. Turn up your Aux 1 sends on channels 3 and 4. You should now be able to hear what's playing back in Sonar. Next, run your vocal mic (or signal from your preamp) into channel 1 of your mixer. Turn up your Aux 2 send on channel 1. Run a line from your mixer's Aux 2 out to your reverb and return into channel 2 of your mixer. Channel 2 fader should be all the way down. Turn up the Aux 1 send of channel 2. You should now be able to hear your Sonar mix plus the vocal with effects. Bring your channel 1 fader up to feed this back through your mixer's main outs. Run your main outs to your audio interface inputs. When you record your vocal in Sonar you will now record only the dry signal.

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#45
HMusikk
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/30 12:13:53 (permalink)
The ”big” issue for the Lynx users (at least me) is that the lynx mixer unfortunately isn’t very user friendly. BUT I use it all the time to have zero monitor latency. I also patch in HW effects (eg. Reverb) only recording the dry signal of course (somebody talked about this earlier in this thread)

Lynx tell us that they haven’t put much effort in making the mixer very fancy (and easy to use) because all the “major” audio program vendors support ASIO Direct monitoring…

…but now, according to a quote from Noel (which I can’t find anyplace else on the www then in this thread) SONAR has "skipped" it due to all the HW vendors have this capability in their internal mixers…but as you’ll understand by now, not very user friendly for us Lynx users…
#46
puffer
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/30 12:58:47 (permalink)
I find the Lynx mixer no more unfriendly than I found the RME mixer.

...this is the year I'm going to stop dreaming about what is possible and do what is necessary

#47
Guitarpima
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/30 13:10:18 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: dbmusic

Since this is recording playback monitoring latency is such an issue, you would think somebody would have figured it out by now. Personally I monitor directly through hardware. If you have mixer with a couple of Aux sends per channel and an external effects unit (reverb), you can do the following:

Send your Sonar mix to your audio interface stereo outs. From your audio interface run your stereo outs to say channels 3 and 4 of your mixer. Faders of 3 and 4 should be all the way down since we don't want to feed these signals to the mixers main outs. Run a line from your mixer's Aux 1 out to your monitor setup. Turn up your Aux 1 sends on channels 3 and 4. You should now be able to hear what's playing back in Sonar. Next, run your vocal mic (or signal from your preamp) into channel 1 of your mixer. Turn up your Aux 2 send on channel 1. Run a line from your mixer's Aux 2 out to your reverb and return into channel 2 of your mixer. Channel 2 fader should be all the way down. Turn up the Aux 1 send of channel 2. You should now be able to hear your Sonar mix plus the vocal with effects. Bring your channel 1 fader up to feed this back through your mixer's main outs. Run your main outs to your audio interface inputs. When you record your vocal in Sonar you will now record only the dry signal.


I recently found this out with my E-MU 1616m. This card's mixer is really flexable. Kudo's to E-MU for it.

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#48
tarsier
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/30 16:08:01 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: HMusikk
…but now, according to a quote from Noel (which I can’t find anyplace else on the www then in this thread) SONAR has "skipped" it due to all the HW vendors have this capability in their internal mixers…but as you’ll understand by now, not very user friendly for us Lynx users…

The quote is here.
#49
HMusikk
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/30 16:16:06 (permalink)

The quote is here.

Thanx...
#50
Jeffw5555
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/30 19:19:24 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: bunnyfluffer

yeah recording monitoring latency is the bane of DAW recording.

I have an rme 96/52 and I direct monitor on larger projects - it's essential sometimes. I've worked with a number of musicians and singers who are very sensitive to timing issues - so I have to hardware bypass whatever is being recorded.



I don't understand, or maybe I should say I don't believe what you are saying. Are you saying that you have singers or musicians that are upset by a few milliseconds of delay? Nonsense.

People who make these kinds of statements have no idea about the physics of sound.

Are you aware that sound travels roughly 1 foot per millisecond? Are these musicians/singers unable to play live, because playing live would mean that they might be 10, 20, 30 feet away from each other and can't handle the 10-30 milliseconds of delay?

Or monitors that are 5-10 feet away?

Please use common sense, people.......
#51
dontletmedrown
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/31 12:00:05 (permalink)
I want to keep this one at the top.
#52
dontletmedrown
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/31 17:53:41 (permalink)
Interesting quote from the Lynx forum:

ORIGINAL: David A Hoatson

I have talked with Noel about this many times, and in fact the implementation they did was in cooperation with us (and I am sure others). Unfortunately after they had it working the product manager decided to dump the feature. Everyone has good reasons for doing what they do, others just might not agree with it. I certainly cannot fault them for any feature that they have or don't have. It is their product. Many people use it and are making money with it. Who can argue with that?


#53
stratton
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/01/31 19:17:24 (permalink)
deleted
post edited by stratton - 2009/01/31 19:30:19
#54
VigilantSound
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/02/01 03:24:20 (permalink)
I am really glad i found this thread, the ADM issues is my biggest gripe right now with sonar. I hate going back and forth between two apps to do something I should be able to do in one. So lets get AMD or a similar function that will allow low latency monitoring through sonar at high buffer settings in the next update. Also I am considering going with lynx on my next setup up so if you guys could do it before i upgrade that would be awesome. I WOULD PAY EXTRA FOR THIS FEATURE..if that helps motivate anyone at CW...PLEASE



PS Enough about your digital mixers most of us are all aware of how to monitor through a console, this thread is about implementing ASIO Direct Monitoring in SONAR 8, not other ways to monitor.
post edited by VigilantSound - 2009/02/01 03:33:29
#55
HMusikk
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/02/01 03:46:15 (permalink)

PS Enough about your digital mixers most of us are all aware of how to monitor through a console, this thread is about implementing ASIO Direct Monitoring in SONAR 8, not other ways to monitor.

+1
#56
HMusikk
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/02/01 03:51:06 (permalink)
#57
VigilantSound
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/02/01 04:05:37 (permalink)
Anyone know who this product manager is, His e-mail would be nice. I think i could talk him into putting it in the next one, Hell they already did most the work..
#58
HMusikk
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/02/01 04:13:49 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: VigilantSound

Anyone know who this product manager is, His e-mail would be nice. I think i could talk him into putting it in the next one, Hell they already did most the work..

http://forum.cakewalk.com/showProfile.asp?memid=359

His signature is: "Director, Product Management"

#59
HMusikk
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support 2009/02/02 08:42:22 (permalink)
uuups...
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