HMusikk
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Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support Please  I know You got it in the code some place (because you have told others about it)  you just removed it right before the release of v 8.
post edited by HMusikk - 2009/01/28 16:30:01
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thegeek
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 16:24:37
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bapu
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 16:25:12
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HMusikk
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 16:29:12
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With this function I can use the direct monitor function in my lynx setup (zero latency within SONAR)
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bapu
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 16:32:08
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Is that a Lynx specific feature or an ASIO specific feature?
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thegeek
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 16:47:44
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HMusikk I think you are confused! As far as I know,direct zero latency monitoring or hardware monitoring (which is more clarifying) is a capability many audio interfaces have that enable the user to "listen" to whatever he has connected in the audio interface ins DIRECTLY without the signal having to be processed by the DAW (or indeed the whole computer).In other words the audio interface works like a simple amp! It will never be a feature of a software simply because zero latency monitoring doesnt have to do with software! So what exactly are you asking? EDIT:Of course in case I AM the confused please do bother to enlighten me!
post edited by thegeek - 2009/01/28 16:56:11
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Guitarpima
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 16:58:31
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I think you hit the nail on the head. It seems he is confusing the hardware vs. the software aspect of monitoring.
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CJaysMusic
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 17:06:57
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It seems he is confusing the hardware vs. the software aspect of monitoring. Yea, since sonar already supports this and has for a long time With this function I can use the direct monitor function in my lynx setup (zero latency within SONAR) You can already do it, if you config your Lynx up correctly. I never had a lynx card so i cant say, but with other sound cards, its done though the cue mix or patch mix or its done on the sound card itself, like the edirols (with a knob) Cj
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HMusikk
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 17:25:26
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You can already do it, if you config your Lynx up correctly. I never had a lynx card so i cant say, but with other sound cards, its done though the cue mix or patch mix or its done on the sound card itself, like the edirols (with a knob) Sorry...you're got it wrong this time CJ.... Look at this thread: http://www.lynxstudio.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2539
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CJaysMusic
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 17:29:18
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Sorry...you're got it wrong this time CJ.... If i am, thats fine, i cant always be right. I'm human, but i still think your confuded on this issue. Cause Me and a whole lot of others get near zero latency and ive had this since i started with sonar many versions ago. so your lynx doesnt have any digital mixer so yuo can route?? Thats weird. As long as yuo set your lynx buffers so your latency is under 5ms, you wont hear any delays. With my Motu card, i can record and play at 1.3ms in ASIO mode. It doesnt get any lower than that. yuo can already achieve what you want, if yoyu set it up correclty. Cj
post edited by CJaysMusic - 2009/01/28 17:48:05
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stevepow
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 17:36:09
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ORIGINAL: thegeek
HMusikk I think you are confused!
As far as I know,direct zero latency monitoring or hardware monitoring (which is more clarifying) is a capability many audio interfaces have that enable the user to "listen" to whatever he has connected in the audio interface ins DIRECTLY without the signal having to be processed by the DAW (or indeed the whole computer).In other words the audio interface works like a simple amp!
It will never be a feature of a software simply because zero latency monitoring doesnt have to do with software!
So what exactly are you asking?
EDIT:Of course in case I AM the confused please do bother to enlighten me!
Yep, you are confused. But since Sonar doesn't implement ADM, it is no wonder unless you have used another application that does. ADM is a feature of most hardware with ASIO drivers. It is not only hardware (the DSP mixer on the hardware), but also software - the driver for the audio card. The audio driver supports a protocol that allows the software mixer, this would be Sonar to substitute the monitoring path in Sonar with that of the hardware directly. So when I enable monitoring in Sonar with the +))) button instead of monitoring with latency through Sonar, Sonar tells the ASIO driver to turn on monitoring through the audio card directly. Not only that but also all panning and fader levels are relayed to the ASIO hardware so you can build a latency free monitor mix without leaving Sonar. Sure, you can simulate this behavior manually by disabling Sonar monitoring and using your Hardware DSP mixer (CueMix DSP or RME TotalMix - don't know what Lynx call theirs) to create a monitor mix manually, but it is not as smooth a work flow. The downside of ADM is that you are not monitoring through your plugin FX. Most people don't care as much about that as they do about latency other than reverb and some ASIO hardware also have built-in DSP FX to solve those issues. I'd like to see ADM support added to Sonar.
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ericzang
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 18:57:22
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The emu 1820m patchmix interface has such an option, that'd be great if sonar could take advantage of it
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CJaysMusic
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 19:05:02
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The emu 1820m patchmix interface has such an option, that'd be great if sonar could take advantage of it ??? It can Just like i use my cue mix or you just lower my latecny down to under 5ms. Cj
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dontletmedrown
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 19:11:59
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Yes, that's the point. We're excited about this implementation because then we won't have to use the Lynx mixer anymore. Sonar will be able to grab the same stream that the hardware uses, so almost zero-latency monitoring even when using a high buffer setting.
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Stone House Studios
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 19:24:07
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ORIGINAL: dontletmedrown
Yes, that's the point. We're excited about this implementation because then we won't have to use the Lynx mixer anymore. Sonar will be able to grab the same stream that the hardware uses, so almost zero-latency monitoring even when using a high buffer setting.
I think you can monitor Sonar with almost zero latency and high buffer setting (without plug-ins, as stated above) now. Where it gets confusing (to me), is who is monitoring whose stream? It doesn't seem to make sense to heavy Sonar plug users to monitor without the plugs, but of course, if you are using only DSP plugs on your hardware, then it makes sense that you would want to monitor your DSP through Sonar (without latency.) Is this geting close? Brian
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dontletmedrown
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 19:32:45
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Read the lynx thread. Everything is explained well. I'd rather not type it all again. http://www.lynxstudio.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2539 I never track with plug-ins. I use outboard gear for that. I just want the Direct Monitoring (near zero-latency) without having to fuss with the Lynx mixer.
post edited by dontletmedrown - 2009/01/28 19:36:52
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John
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 19:33:32
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One reason I have a digital mixer. I don't have to deal with this subject. LOL
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nhb
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 19:35:01
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ADM is a feature of most hardware with ASIO drivers. It is not only hardware (the DSP mixer on the hardware), but also software - the driver for the audio card. The audio driver supports a protocol that allows the software mixer, this would be Sonar to substitute the monitoring path in Sonar with that of the hardware directly. So when I enable monitoring in Sonar with the +))) button instead of monitoring with latency through Sonar, Sonar tells the ASIO driver to turn on monitoring through the audio card directly. Not only that but also all panning and fader levels are relayed to the ASIO hardware so you can build a latency free monitor mix without leaving Sonar.
Great explanation Steve... It's too bad more people aren't aware of the advantages of ASIO direct monitoring. I have a feeling that Sonar could give us a real nice implementation of it. nhb
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stevepow
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 20:52:11
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ORIGINAL: John
One reason I have a digital mixer. I don't have to deal with this subject. LOL
Well you have just decided not to deal with it - but a digital mixer or a DSP mixer on the sound card is splitting hairs - both are digital mixers and if you have to manipulate both the mixer and Sonar to achieve a thing that could be done in Sonar alone, then an alternative that does it all within the single interface for at least some will be an advantage. I used to use an O2R to do all that - and I can do the same thing in CueMixDSP or TotalMix with way less heat and wasted desk space - not to mention the $$$ - very hard, if not impossible, to justify the cost of a digital mixer these days unless you just need it for show. So for me, a digital mixer on the desk is going backwards, not forwards. But some people like the feel of that "console" - for those who don't, ADM can make the software and hardware operation more integrated.
post edited by stevepow - 2009/01/28 20:58:15
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bitman
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 21:40:57
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I split the mics and inputs before they hit the preamps. This can be done using a mixer with direct outs or transformers. The advantage is you play back your tracks back thought the board say into the 2 track input and monitor them there while you record more tracks through the mixer at zero latency. Like the old days. You tell Sonar your ASIO offset so you can run those 1024 sized asio buffers at all time and the overdubs line right up with sample accurate alignment.  This is how I do it in a commercial 16 live channel studio. being able to run giant asio buffers is great. The whole thing has a nice analog tape machine feel workflow wise. With low cpu load. You gotta put softsynths on another machine because of the high latencies if you use them. Then bring midi or analog softsynth audio to the main daw like any other instrument.
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Resonant Order
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 21:55:03
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"tell Sonar your ASIO offset"
Care to elaborate?
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space_cowboy
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 22:01:15
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ORIGINAL: John
One reason I have a digital mixer. I don't have to deal with this subject. LOL
What digital mixer John? I have a D8B and can track guitars and bass and drums and vocals with no latency, but I have to apply plug ins later. Then again, I have a rack of fx for reverbs and echos and other really FSU stuff. I keep looking at the new crop of digital mixers and have never found something that has the flexibility of my D8B.
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pjl
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 22:15:57
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The problem is that the ADM specification is very primitive in that it offers very few functions. If it's implemented in SONAR it would have significantly less functionality than the Lynx Mixer, Cue Mix, etc.
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John
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 22:21:40
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Well you have just decided not to deal with it - but a digital mixer or a DSP mixer on the sound card is splitting hairs - both are digital mixers They are? I never heard that! Funny I do have a sound card that is really simply an interface for the mixer. A Tdiff card. But what do I know about what I own. Maybe I should read the manual. What do you think? As far as ASIO is concerned I use it for compatibility reasons not because I have to. I do run other audio apps including in the past Cubase. My setup is such that I don't have much need for zero latency. My latency is nicely under control. if you have to manipulate both the mixer and Sonar to achieve a thing that could be done in Sonar alone, then an alternative that does it all within the single interface for at least some will be an advantage. You have no idea how I use my equipment or why I chose it. very hard, if not impossible, to justify the cost of a digital mixer these days unless you just need it for show. So for me, a digital mixer on the desk is going backwards, not forwards. But some people like the feel of that "console" - for those who don't, ADM can make the software and hardware operation more integrated. That is your opinion and very rude. I didn't decide to get this setup on a whim. I have been doing this sort of thing for a very long time. After years of doing things a certain way I found a better way for my needs. I then got the gear to do it that way. Further I am pertty sure I can do anything anyone else can do with an all in one sound card. Plus I have a bit more versatility in how I set things up. To attack a way of doing something that is working and has worked for a long time now with out knowing how it is working or why it is working is presumptuous beyond anything I have seen on this forum to date. I don't know if you meant your comment to come off as bad as it did to me but in many ways it is a very poor way to get to know another.
post edited by John - 2009/01/28 22:52:45
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Guitarpima
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 22:38:09
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From what I read on the other forum where he asked the same question, all you need to do is this:
Goto Options and click on audio.
On the first tab, select "ASIO Panel"
Lower your latency from 1024 to below 5.
I have an old P4 2.4ghz box and I have to run 50 or else I have to many dropouts. If I need to use a really low setting, I have to bounce everything I want to hear to one track to record the one track using direct monitoring. Hopefully you have an up to date puter and you can just leave your setting in the asio panel really low.
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
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mudgel
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 23:08:17
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I read a post where Noel Borthwick mentioned ADM but I'm just not sure as it was a while ago. the way it works in TotalMix (RME's driver mixer) is similar to a Control Surface. Once ADM is activated you control the driver mixer (Totalmix) via the mixer in your Host Software. SONAR does not currently support this function but it sure would be good wouldn't it. As has already been mentioned you can't monitor fx that way but when you're tracking maybe you don't want to or have other options at your disposal. I know I do but of course SONAR doesn't offer this feature yet. Maybe in the future sometime?? Here's a link to an RME page that explains Zero Latency Monitoring and ASIO Direct Monitoring. Basically ZLM is monitoring the hardware inputs directly instead of through your host software. ADM allows you to do this through your host without invoking whatever mixer software your hardware uses eg RME use TotalMix.
post edited by mudgel - 2009/01/28 23:27:38
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dontletmedrown
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 23:08:36
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Haha. Some of you guys really seem to be missing the point. If you read the lynx thread, you will see that in this example, I'm re-tracking a line of vocals onto a project that has already been completely tracked and mixed. Even though my computer is pretty powerful, using low latency in Sonar is not an option in this case. However, using the lynx mixer, I can leave the Sonar buffer at 1024 and still get zero latency monitoring. Lynx tech support called it "hardware monitoring". What I would like to see: When I hit the echo input in Sonar, it will take the "zero-latency" stream of audio. As it is now, if I hit echo input I will hear the 1024 sample delay. Of course, I can just use the lynx mixer, but the lynx mixer really sucks. Apparently this is a common feature of the ASIO2 spec that Sonar has never supported. Paul (from Lynx) says Cakewalk showed it to him working at AES, but apparently it was pulled from the program before S8 release. They do not know if it will be in 8.03 so that's why hmuzik was asking. Until then, I'm stuck with the Lynx mixer. 
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jinga8
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/28 23:24:50
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I agree that it should be simple, should be done, and should be an option in Sonar...but... by: David A Hoatson
SONAR 8 doesn't include ASIO Direct Monitoring support. They took that feature out at the last minute before SONAR 8 shipped. Where the heck does this statement come from? How does David A Hoatson know this, and where was this published/not published??? 
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pjl
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/29 01:15:11
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A quote from Noel:
I'll let you in on a secret. In early SONAR 8 we actually implemented DM. ASIO DM is one of the poorest areas of the ASIO specification and very incomplete. We ran into so many vague areas with the ASIO spec and differences in manufacturers implementations that we ultimately ended up scrapping it. Additionally most if not all HW vendors have their own console applications that implement their own custom direct monitoring mapping that is superior than any host based ASIO DM implementation could rival. We decided that we'd let this one go for now.
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dontletmedrown
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RE: Hi Cake. will 8.3 include ASIO Direct Monitoring support
2009/01/29 01:34:34
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ORIGINAL: Noel
...Additionally most if not all HW vendors have their own console applications that implement their own custom direct monitoring mapping that is superior than any host based ASIO DM implementation could rival...
I guess Noel never used the Lynx mixer. It doesn't let you PAN.
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