How do you feel about how the MS Ribbon concept was implemented in SONAR X1?

the ribbon is the stupidest, most short-sighted-marketing rubbish ms have done for yonks

they never asked me

I've discovered I almost never use it. I start/stop the transport with the space bar. I middle mouse if I want the Smart tool HUD, don't care about the performance module or most others. I do use it for looping regions but I'm pretty sure that can be key bound or is already. Oh yeah I also use it for Snap settings and global Solo Mute.

I haven't tried hiding it yet but will and see how much I miss it.

http://forum.cakewalk.com...59&mpage=1#2242170





Larry,
 I'm guessing you may not know what the "ribbon" is.

 My apologies if I'm mistaken... but it seems like you've been repeatedly saying that you're loving all the ribbon features that were implemented in SONAR.

 It seems ironic to think that you are saying you don't use the Ribbon.

 Hmmmm, so who did Cakewalk implement the Ribbon for?

 all the best,
mike

fastest-moved thread evar?

I think the Ribbon as implemented in SONAR X1 has resulted in additional steps to do things I use to do in fewer steps.

I think that the larger icons and big symbols as implemented in SONAR X1 have resulted in less information being available on any particular display screen.

I think that it should have been easy for Cakewalk's product management to predict that the same negative reaction that accompanied the MS Ribbon concept in other applications could have easily been anticipated and the degradation of efficiency in SONAR X1 could have been avoided because there was plenty of time to see what the Ribbon concept does to work flow.

What do you think about how the Ribbon was forced upon SONAR X1 users?

Maybe it could have been optional... or packaged as part of the X1 average pack? Or something like that.


from  http://en.wikipedia.org/w.i/Ribbon_%28computing%29 

note: footnotes are hot linked.

"

Reaction to interface

The Ribbon interface of Microsoft Office has had mixed reactions. Redmondmag.com reported that power users feel the ribbons take "too much time and patience to learn."[7] Richard Ericson from Computerworld noted that experienced users might find difficulties adapting to the new interface, and that some tasks take more key-presses or clicks to activate.[8] Though the ribbon can be hidden by double-clicking on the open tab, PC World wrote that the ribbon interface crowds the Office work area, especially for notebook users.[9] Others have called its large icons distracting.[10] An online survey conducted by ExcelUser reports that about 80% of respondents had a negative opinion of the change, and within that 80%, the self-estimated reduction in productivity was "about 35%".[11]
Other users claim that having learned to use the new interface, it has improved the speed with which the average user can create "professional-looking" documents.[7] Dostál conducted a study on the Ribbon acceptance which reports a fairly good acceptance by users except highly experienced users and users of word processing applications with a classical WIMP interface.[12] Microsoft has released a series of small programs,[13] help sheets,[14] videos[15] and add-ins[16] to help users learn the new interface more quickly.
"


edit for spelling

benstat


The SONAR one is actually quite a bit different to the MS Office ribbon. The MS one has tabs, context groups (ie. groups of buttons that automatically appear only in the right context, then disappear afterwards), customizable quick access buttons, group links and so on.

I, erm, actually quite like the MS ribbon (sorry). I like the SONAR one too, although it needs refinement (options to make it smaller, add a customizable module, too much space wasted etc).

I'm a big mouse user. A few extra clicks here and there don't bother me if it's easier and more logical to find the things I need.

Hi Ben,
 Very informative response.

 I enjoy a good mouse click as well... it sure seems like a lot of my right click options vaporized and now I have to use the ol 2 step key/tab menu/mouse instead of perfectly fine method that's been around for 18 years.


 That's the part I don't, nor do many of the people surveyed in those surveys linked to in the footnotes, seem to get.

 Hmmm.


 best regards,
mike

i think people who don't use the software thought it looked nicer

also, wtf happened to post-forum-post actions here? i generally like to go back to the forum, but i almost always end up at the just-posted-message; i dont get consistent thread notification emails anymore either...

pwal


i think people who don't use the software thought it looked nicer

+10000

Thanks Gang...

It's good to see others who believe at least some of what I do...

Many steps backwards for work while they dressed the program in new clothes!

Keni

Myself, I'm used to using MS Office with the ribbon so it really was not that big of an issue with me.

I trained under Vista and XP..both systems work for me just as easily since I trained on those...but...

I can see why there would be an issue with extra steps...especially for some who may already have RSI..Repetitive Strain Injury,,that is when you need certain ergonomic changes to how you do things...arm rests so that the mouse is not forcing your wrist up for example...

Personally, I like smaller buttons and efficient use of space 

FUNCTION > FORM

Although I will say this... with buttons missing that I used to like and use from 8.5.3 have forced me to learn more shortcuts which I would say is a good thing

bitflipper


When MS Office went to this style, I initially hated it with a passion, 9 out of 10 on the I-Hate-It scale.

After working with it for a while, rediscovering where once-familiar things had moved to, and appreciating the grand scheme the UI designers were after, I find that I now only hate it about 8 out of 10.

I'm with bit on this one.  I develop stuff using the MS Business Intelligence stack, and Excel is one of the front ends for analyzing data.  The new versions seem to contain change for change sake.  I see the OS's the same.  Windows 7 operationally does not do anything much more that XP does, but they had to move everything around just to hack guys like me off.

bitflipper


When MS Office went to this style, I initially hated it with a passion, 9 out of 10 on the I-Hate-It scale.

After working with it for a while, rediscovering where once-familiar things had moved to, and appreciating the grand scheme the UI designers were after, I find that I now only hate it about 8 out of 10.

It seems as if your estimation is right in line with the results found in the surveys mentioned in the copy I pasted in the OP.

It occurs to me that two steps, right click and menu select will in many cases be faster than move the mouse to a tab or  using your left hand to alt ( or ctrl ) while using your right hand to find a hotkey just so you may menu select.

With regards to the alt/ctrl option, it seems like there are lots of other things my left hand can be doing regardless of how familiar my memory becomes with the new *paradigm*.

The part that really confuses me is how the downsides can seem so obvious and yet a developer may seem oblivious to the downsides and continue to implement the best of the bad ideas.

 best regards,
mike