Helpful ReplyI finally give up on IK Multimedia

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vintagevibe
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2016/03/19 20:19:04 (permalink)

I finally give up on IK Multimedia

I'm one of their best customers but I've had it with jumping through hoops JUST TO F&*^ING PURCHASE SOMETHING!
So I go to Custom Shop and to buy Stealth Limiter.  First I have to figure out how to use gear credits and jam points together.  I get that figured out and make my purchase.  Custom Shop shows the item is purchased so I click on Restore My Gear.  Nothing happens and the plugin is not installed.  After trying for awhile I fill out a support ticket.  Next day I get a response that says to download it from My Products page.  It's not there ...
 
... So here I am spending time troubleshooting a purchase!!!  This is a BS way of doing business and I can't deal with it anymore.  There are plenty of competing products that I could have been using to get work done.  Instead I'M TROUBLESHOOTING A PURCHASE!  That should never happen.  I've never known a retailer that has spent so much time and money developing a sales system (Custom Shop) THAT MAKES IS HARDER TO BUY!  All other companies try to make it easier to buy.  I'm very busy so IK is just not worth the time anymore.
 
OK, rant over.
#1
IK_Multimedia
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/19 20:58:49 (permalink)
That is not the typical experience, usually you purchase in Custom Shop by clicking the Buy button and don't even have to do Restore My Gear and it is ready to use.  Sorry to hear that it didn't go that way - Support would typically send you to your User Area --> My Products in order to make sure you have the latest version of the software just in case and as a basic first troubleshooting step, I'll let them know that they should elaborate more when they suggest this sort of thing so the user is more aware of why hey'd ask you to do something like this that may seem circuitous at first.
 
Thanks for relaying your experience.
#2
vintagevibe
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/19 22:31:36 (permalink)
It's too convoluted. I need a calculator just to figure out what the actual price will be. Then the system is too complex and you can never buy less than too may gear credits for any given product. It's a horrible customer experience.
#3
IK_Multimedia
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/19 22:57:35 (permalink)
vintagevibe
It's too convoluted. I need a calculator just to figure out what the actual price will be. Then the system is too complex and you can never buy less than too may gear credits for any given product. It's a horrible customer experience.

I appreciate your feelings on that, please do note that for those who don't feel Gear Credits are the right choice, we offer the option to buy with other payment methods like credit card and PayPal.  The gear you were looking to purchase is available without the need for Gear Credits.  You can use JamPoints on those purchases too, if you are not so inclined to use them toward the purchase of Gear Credits.
 
Edit - I'll definitely pass along your feelings, let me know if you'd like me to specify your ticket number (and please PM that to me if so).  They'll appreciate the information too and will try to make sure what happened with your gear not showing up doesn't happen going forward and take into consideration your criticism of the purchasing process when on chooses to use Gear Credits and JamPoints.  Thanks.
#4
Skyline_UK
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 05:18:20 (permalink)
I sympathise with the OP. I have most IK products but stay away from the Custom Shops because of the convoluted processes. Just my 2p's worth. 

My stuff
 
Intel Sandy Bridge i7 2600 @ 3.4GHz, 4 cores, 8 threads, 16GB RAM.
OS & Programs drive: 240GB SSD
Data drives: 1 x 1TB drive RAID mirrored, plus extra 1TB data drive 
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Cakewalk by BandLab 64 bit, Studio One 3, 
Band In A Box 2016, Ozone 8
+ too many other plugins
BandLab page
#5
Soundwise
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 05:47:26 (permalink)
Sorry to hear that, guys. Guess, I'm a happy camper here. IK isn't 100% trouble free, but it's not a complete mess either. Once installed and authorized product's performance is rock-solid. And with all IK's group buy's and free credits some minor bugs and trouble-shooting may be safely neglected. 
#6
cclarry
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 06:49:59 (permalink)
It is indeed a "convoluted" process...as you have to figure out 
"which way is the least expensive" to purchase, and that is 
ALWAYS to use your "Jampoints" to buy "too many" gear credits,
which gets you the "lowest price", but then, because you didn't
buy it "outright", through the store, but instead used gear credits,
you NOW can't sell it later down the road to recoup ANY of the
investment...

Pretty ridiculous process and system...

Add to that the convoluted "apologies" and "so sorry"'s and etc...
and it's a formula for Kool Aid...

SampleTank, a product that took 10 years to "upgrade"...and they
BRAGGED ABOUT IT...."10 Years in the Making"...only to be somewhat
"dismal" for that much development time...they spent maybe a year...
the LAST year before it was released, due to the massive "outcry" from SampleTank
2 users...because they were too busy developing "i-Craps" and chasing "New
Dollars", and, because of that, put existing customers LAST...

While the products are good, the company business tactics and principles are
quite pathetic IMO...YMMV

(YES...I ALWAYS have to get my two cents worth in these conversations)


#7
thepianist65
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 09:33:16 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/03/22 09:49:31
I have somewhat different views on IK. I stopped using their desktop products (SampleTank, Miroslav, etc. and have had issues with them on and off thru the years causing Sonar crashes, finding sample directories, etc. However, although Larry would disagree, I find their "i'crap" to be an invaluable tool, and now use my iPad in live performance quite a bit. While I have stopped using Amplitude for iPad, it has been a nice product, but I have replaced it with Cubasis, a more full-featured IOS Daw product (like it better than Auria Pro, in fact). And their IOS SampleTank is more than serviceable, as are their other products, iGrand, iElectric, etc. They are near or at the cutting edge in mobile technology--a must these days (maybe not for everyone). I would never bring a laptop or other computer to a gig, but using IK's software (and other company's, such as Korg) and their hardware (iKlip, etc.) for on-stage setup, it's really made me a convert to this type of tool in music. And while I don't do a lot of recording on it (that is still something I prefer to do in Sonar or any computer-based DAW, it's easy enough to port over my tracks and then have complete control over them in live performance. I just wanted to put my one dissenting view in here, not to discount any other views, but to underscore that mobile music production/performance has come a very long way and is on the cusp of being completely viable as a composing/performance/stage rig tool.
 

 www.davemaffris.com
 BLUES:
https://www.facebook.com/coastalblueband1/
 
https://www.facebook.com/Midiexpert/?ref=hl
Please feel free to check out my music, all made with Cakewalk, available on itunes, Amazon, Google, Rdio, etc., etc.
For mostly jazzy stuff on Soundcloud at these locations:
https://soundcloud.com/dave-maffris
or for some different styles of music(pop/rock/covers):
https://soundcloud.com/dmpianoman
Tidewater Jazz page:
https://soundcloud.com/user-84355115
 
 
 
#8
clintmartin
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 09:49:14 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby robbyk 2016/03/23 11:41:38
Do you have to jump through hoops?....Yes.
However, you will get some great products for very little money once you get the process down.
 

Cakewalk, Harrison Mixbus 4, Waveform 9, ADK intel i7 2600 3.40 ghz, 8gb Ram, Win 7, Presonus Audiobox 44VSL. 
http://www.youtube.com/c/clintmartinmusic
https://itunes.apple.com/...lint-martin/1010966023
https://open.spotify.com/artist/4x4TBz32i56bTJkgu7b4tN
 
 
 
#9
cclarry
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 10:06:04 (permalink)
thepianist53
I have somewhat different views on IK. I stopped using their desktop products (SampleTank, Miroslav, etc. and have had issues with them on and off thru the years causing Sonar crashes, finding sample directories, etc. However, although Larry would disagree, I find their "i'crap" to be an invaluable tool, and now use my iPad in live performance quite a bit. While I have stopped using Amplitude for iPad, it has been a nice product, but I have replaced it with Cubasis, a more full-featured IOS Daw product (like it better than Auria Pro, in fact). And their IOS SampleTank is more than serviceable, as are their other products, iGrand, iElectric, etc. They are near or at the cutting edge in mobile technology--a must these days (maybe not for everyone). I would never bring a laptop or other computer to a gig, but using IK's software (and other company's, such as Korg) and their hardware (iKlip, etc.) for on-stage setup, it's really made me a convert to this type of tool in music. And while I don't do a lot of recording on it (that is still something I prefer to do in Sonar or any computer-based DAW, it's easy enough to port over my tracks and then have complete control over them in live performance. I just wanted to put my one dissenting view in here, not to discount any other views, but to underscore that mobile music production/performance has come a very long way and is on the cusp of being completely viable as a composing/performance/stage rig tool.
 



I don't disagree Pianist...I just take issue with putting the products that existing
customers have invested THOUSANDS of dollars in on hold, while you "pursue" 
the iCrap dollar.  THAT is, and always has been my biggest issue with them.

Existing customers are "put to the rear" for the sake of MONEY.
I know they are in business to make money, but it should NEVER be
at the expense of the "existing and heavily invested" current customer,
which is EXACTLY what they do AND did.

I know their i - apps are quite useful, and have no problem with iCraps...
it's just "how they went about it" that I take issue with, as well as their
convoluted "processes" and structuring of "purchases"...and, because of
that, the inability to sell what you have invested in (I have the same issue
with Cakewalk - whose products you can't "Sell" if you "get out of the business")

An example of HOW IK does business is the current release of Total Studio MAX.
Existing owners of Total Studio 3 get NO BREAK whatsoever
in the VASTLY EXHORBITANT price of MAX, other then the one provided
for owning "one" of the "Qualifying" products...that's just "CRAPPY
Business" PERIOD...

But, each is entitled to their opinion...that's just MINE...
post edited by cclarry - 2016/03/20 12:08:17


#10
bitflipper
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 11:06:37 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/03/22 09:50:17
How one feels about IK's shopping experience may be a generational split. If you're over 40, most of your life's retail transactions have been simple: choose a product, hand over the money. No games.
 
Like most consumers, I prefer that model. It's worked for thousands of years, serving every market from Wal-Mart to your pot dealer to buying a book on Amazon. Vendors who think they can improve the process by re-inventing the wheel do so at their own peril.
 
 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

My Stuff
#11
TheMaartian
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 11:16:57 (permalink)
My sole experience with IK came at the very beginning of my return to music, when I purchased a version of Band-in-a-Box. BiaB installed a couple of IK products...which drove me nuts. I never thought I'd hate a company's in-app self-advertising more than I did Cyberlink's, but IK's was just awful. I could never figure out what was usable, what was demo, what I needed to use the product I'd purchased (BiaB). I wound up downloading and installing a bunch of their demoware. I got so bad, that, along with the pre-Win95 UI and architecture of BiaB, I just uninstalled the whole mess.
 
Since then, I have never considered another BiaB or IK product, nor will I. Too many good products at good prices from good people who are EASY to do business with.

Intel i7 3.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, 2 TB HD Win10 Home 64-bit Tascam US-16x08
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#12
BobF
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 11:25:37 (permalink)
TheMaartian
My sole experience with IK came at the very beginning of my return to music, when I purchased a version of Band-in-a-Box. BiaB installed a couple of IK products...which drove me nuts. I never thought I'd hate a company's in-app self-advertising more than I did Cyberlink's, but IK's was just awful. I could never figure out what was usable, what was demo, what I needed to use the product I'd purchased (BiaB). I wound up downloading and installing a bunch of their demoware. I got so bad, that, along with the pre-Win95 UI and architecture of BiaB, I just uninstalled the whole mess.
 
Since then, I have never considered another BiaB or IK product, nor will I. Too many good products at good prices from good people who are EASY to do business with.





My experience with PG Music and IKM have both been the opposite; good, positive experiences with both.  Using ST inside of BiaB is pretty straight-forward, with only a minor fiddle at each startup.  I've never seen an ad in ST unless I explicitly click the shopping cart button.
 
AmpliTube is a different story.  VERY obnoxious trying to see just the stuff you already own.  T-RackS is much easier.
 
Yeah, the BiaB interface is yuchy.  Which alternative to BiaB did you settle on?

Bob  --
Angels are crying because truth has died ...
Illegitimi non carborundum
--
Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64
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#13
Jim Roseberry
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 11:40:47 (permalink)
Going to throw my $0.02 in the kitty    
 
I agree with the OP that the process of purchasing is too convoluted.
I've been put off buying newer IK plugins because of this.
I do like the TRacks plugins (LA-2A, 1176, Pultec, Brickwall Limiter, etc).
IMO, They're some of the better native offerings.
 
I bought SampleTank (and other VIs) for iOS, but (for my purposes) they're too limited to be of much practical use.
  • There's not a dedicated "live" host like Forte' or Cantabile
  • CPU power is limited compared to PC/Mac
  • You have to connect a real audio/MIDI interface
 
In the end, the logistics and "state of technology" are close... but just not quite there (for me).
It was quicker/easier to setup a (real) workstation keyboard.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#14
TheMaartian
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 11:51:09 (permalink)
BobF
... 
Yeah, the BiaB interface is yuchy.  Which alternative to BiaB did you settle on?

I've been using ChordPulse for prototyping, and like it. I'm currently evaluating Sundog Scale Studio for chord progressions. I never did intend to use BiaB for song development. I bought it on a recommendation and it was more than I needed or wanted at that time. I found it a bit overwhelming for a beginner, but it did provide a good learning experience with respect to navigating the death-by-a-thousand-choices that is audio software.
 
Also, I didn't mean to imply that IK apps were popping up ads. BiaB installed a bunch of demoware that, of course, wanted to become paidware. I wasn't clear at all at that time on the concept of a software 'rack' that could hold multiple 'apps', and got quickly confused between what I was told I needed for the training course I'd purchased and what was real and what was 'Memorex' in the IK apps.
 
And, geez, I really hated the BiaB UI. Back in my early engineering days, I was writing real-time multitaskers in assembler that ran under DOS (I had to deal with a serial communications protocol that had LEGAL parity errors; that sucked), so was very familiar with PC app architectures. And BiaB's was (and perhaps still is) stone age.
 
That doesn't mean that users can't get great beneficial use from it. Not at all.
 
But it does mean that I just couldn't connect with it, was never comfortable with it. So, when you're fighting a tool, it's unlikely that you'll achieve much with it.
 
And there is guilt by association. BiaB are the ones who installed the IK nightmare on my PC. BiaB was easy to uninstall. Getting rid of all of the little IK bread crumbs took awhile.

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#15
BobF
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 12:05:10 (permalink)
BiaB installed zero demoware on my machine ...
 
ChordPulse is a cool tool for sure.  I wish there was more style flexibility, but for $20 ...
 
Sundog looks interesting.

Bob  --
Angels are crying because truth has died ...
Illegitimi non carborundum
--
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Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U

#16
bapu
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 12:51:21 (permalink)
I have yet to have had a bad purchase experience with IKM. I couldn't care less if I can't resell because I chose the less expensive route to purchase. I have, as yet, not had the desire to get rid of any VST/VSTi I have purchased from anyone with two exceptions.
 
1. I offered Alloy 2 during the Ozone 7 Advanced sale, but it was never bid on.
2. When I received the (at the time) PSP Everything bundle on a charity bundle "bid" on KVR I transferred all my PSP plugs to my son (for free).
 
FYI: This past year BIAB had updated their UI somewhat. I've never really "struggled" with their UI. I guess I'm just more flexible than some. 
#17
vintagevibe
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 13:40:31 (permalink)
IK_Multimedia
[please do note that for those who don't feel Gear Credits are the right choice, we offer the option to buy with other payment methods like credit card and PayPal.  The gear you were looking to purchase is available without the need for Gear Credits.  You can use JamPoints on those purchases too, if you are not so inclined to use them toward the purchase of Gear Credits.
 
 

 So I can buy directly with a C.C. instead of Gear Credits.  I did not know that.
#18
TerraSin
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 13:59:06 (permalink)
I decided a while ago I'm done buying from IK for 3 main reasons:
 
1. The overly complicated buying process
I appreciate your feelings on that, please do note that for those who don't feel Gear Credits are the right choice, we offer the option to buy with other payment methods like credit card and PayPal.  The gear you were looking to purchase is available without the need for Gear Credits.  You can use JamPoints on those purchases too, if you are not so inclined to use them toward the purchase of Gear Credits.

I think that speaks for itself on that issue. Buying things is very confusing if you have credits and points. I know I had a huge pain of a time trying to figure out how and where to make my purchases at. IK really needs to simplify this.
 
2. Reactivation Credits... bad business practice all around. Bandwidth costs next to nothing these days and there are ways of lowering the costs of transfer even further. This is just a way to make extra coin from existing users. The ways I've seen the company defend it as well has been nothing short of pathetic. Luckily for me, I keep backups of my products but if anything ever happened (God forbid), and I lost everything, I'd be expected to penny up.
 
3. Trying to find products I own within a plugin and using said products. As BobF mentioned, if I want to see just the stuff I own, I can't do that. It still lists everything even if I don't own it. Okay, fine. What really gets my goat is when I own a product and go to load one of the presets only to be met with "The current preset uses models which are not installed". Seriously? You pack in presets that use other presets that require purchasing? Get bent, IK. :\
#19
IK_Multimedia
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 14:20:20 (permalink)
bitflipper
How one feels about IK's shopping experience may be a generational split. If you're over 40, most of your life's retail transactions have been simple: choose a product, hand over the money. No games.
 
Like most consumers, I prefer that model. It's worked for thousands of years, serving every market from Wal-Mart to your pot dealer to buying a book on Amazon. Vendors who think they can improve the process by re-inventing the wheel do so at their own peril.

...and that's why we offer that model too.  OP had the option to go the Stealth Limiter page, click "Buy Now" then checkout and get the serial.
#20
thepianist65
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 14:53:42 (permalink)
I'm in my 60's. I can't remember how I used to buy things. Heck, sometimes I can't even remember What I just bought!  

 www.davemaffris.com
 BLUES:
https://www.facebook.com/coastalblueband1/
 
https://www.facebook.com/Midiexpert/?ref=hl
Please feel free to check out my music, all made with Cakewalk, available on itunes, Amazon, Google, Rdio, etc., etc.
For mostly jazzy stuff on Soundcloud at these locations:
https://soundcloud.com/dave-maffris
or for some different styles of music(pop/rock/covers):
https://soundcloud.com/dmpianoman
Tidewater Jazz page:
https://soundcloud.com/user-84355115
 
 
 
#21
cclarry
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 15:04:43 (permalink)
IK_Multimedia
bitflipper
How one feels about IK's shopping experience may be a generational split. If you're over 40, most of your life's retail transactions have been simple: choose a product, hand over the money. No games.
 
Like most consumers, I prefer that model. It's worked for thousands of years, serving every market from Wal-Mart to your pot dealer to buying a book on Amazon. Vendors who think they can improve the process by re-inventing the wheel do so at their own peril.

...and that's why we offer that model too.  OP had the option to go the Stealth Limiter page, click "Buy Now" then checkout and get the serial.



AND with that option PAY MORE....always a great way to do business!!! 


#22
Grem
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 17:23:50 (permalink)
I can get on Amplitube as see what I own, all my products I purchased. I can aslo see what I don't own (which ain't much)
 
I can do the same on TrackS.
 
As far as the IK mobile products, I recommend them all the time. And from what I am gathering from people like the Pianist53, the mobile customers outweigh the older customers. Hence the reason (understandably) that they devote most of their resources to mobile development. The mobile customers are the existing customers!
 
The only thing I paid full price for was the Mesa collection. Due to my own neglect. In fact, if I had to give up all my Amplitube stuff and only keep one thing, it would be the Mesa stuff. Most of the other collections I have, and I have all the major stuff, I don't use. But I got them for almost nothing!! So no loss really.
 
And I have no problem buying from the custom shop with Gear Credit or Jam Points. But I did have to take a lesson on how to do it. (Thanks CW Forum!) And once I learned how to do it, I saw all of the instructions wrote exactly the way they told me to do it on IK website! Why didn't I see it before? IDK. That's part of the problem though.

Grem

Michael
 
Music PC
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Home PC
AMD FX 6300; 8gb Ram; 256 SSD sys; 2TB audio/samples; Realtek WASAPI; Win 10 Home 64; CWbBL 64 
Surface Pro 3
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#23
vintagevibe
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 17:26:51 (permalink)
IK_Multimedia
 OP had the option to go the Stealth Limiter page, click "Buy Now" then checkout and get the serial.




 
That would make it simpler.
#24
vintagevibe
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 17:29:18 (permalink)
Grem
And I have no problem buying from the custom shop with Gear Credit or Jam Points. But I did have to take a lesson on how to do it. (Thanks CW Forum!) And once I learned how to do it, I saw all of the instructions wrote exactly the way they told me to do it on IK website! Why didn't I see it before? IDK. That's part of the problem though.




I shouldn't have to jump through all of those hoops or search for instructions to make a purchase.
#25
vintagevibe
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 17:33:23 (permalink)
cclarry
IK_Multimedia
 
...and that's why we offer that model too.  OP had the option to go the Stealth Limiter page, click "Buy Now" then checkout and get the serial.



AND with that option PAY MORE....always a great way to do business!!! 




I don't really even mind that so much - let them make more money  .  I feel like I get their software at good prices in the end.  Just don't aggravate me in the process! 
#26
cclarry
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 17:38:33 (permalink)
The major advantage (to me) for buying from the Product Page,
as I stated before, is, if at some point you find you don't need, 
or aren't using it, or go out of business, you can sell (with the $19
fee of course)...but still...it just all seems like a "messy and dicey"
way to do business...


#27
vintagevibe
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 20:27:24 (permalink)
IK support just got back to me and fixed the problem.  Impressive support.  Still the process is way to complicated.
#28
Fleer
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/20 22:50:32 (permalink)
thepianist53
I'm in my 60's. I can't remember how I used to buy things. Heck, sometimes I can't even remember What I just bought!  

I can't even remember how old I am.

As for IK, not being able to see all my non-CustomShop purchases listed in my account where they belong, i.e. outside of any CustomShop reference, is what gets me.

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
#29
Grem
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Re: I finally give up on IK Multimedia 2016/03/21 07:03:54 (permalink)
vintagevibe
 
I shouldn't have to jump through all of those hoops or search for instructions to make a purchase.




Agreed.
 
However, I did learn that I could save some money by going through that (somewhat confusing) process they have set up.
 
Fleer
 
As for IK, not being able to see all my non-CustomShop purchases listed in my account where they belong, i.e. outside of any CustomShop reference, is what gets me.
 



Not understanding you here Fleer.
 
I have stuff in both Amplitube and TrackS that I bought from outside the Custom shop and I can see everything I own.

Grem

Michael
 
Music PC
i7 2600K; 64gb Ram; 3 256gb SSD, System, Samples, Audio; 1TB & 2TB Project Storage; 2TB system BkUp; RME FireFace 400; Win 10 Pro 64; CWbBL 64, 
Home PC
AMD FX 6300; 8gb Ram; 256 SSD sys; 2TB audio/samples; Realtek WASAPI; Win 10 Home 64; CWbBL 64 
Surface Pro 3
Win 10  i7 8gb RAM; CWbBL 64
#30
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