I don't want layers back, I want take lanes (and comping) fixed.
If they are baked well I can see them being far more efficient than layers (yes at the moment it's the other way around).
Take lanes would be fantastic if implemented well. Great idea half baked.

I'm probably mistaken then, thinking of the ss drums, my bad

fooman

lawp
didn't they do a webinar of that already?

Please forward me a link if so!!! :)
I saw some webinars using softsynth drums, but no multi-miced drumkits with 2-3 takes of a song.  Cause that's my sessions.  And using take lanes isn't quick and painless.  Track layers are.

it was this one i was thinking of, but it's for x1 http://blog.cakewalk.com/caketv-live-larger-than-life-drums/

I remember buying my first violin...when I got home with it, I realized I didn't know how to tune it, so I just made up my own tuning.  I practiced my butt off and brought the fiddle to a rock gig.  I was getting some really cool sounds going, made up a few original licks and had a fantastic time for quite a while.
Then I decided to learn how to tune it.  I was completely at a loss of what to do with a fiddle that was actually tuned properly.
 
This thread reminded me of that first violin experience.  The Take Lanes work great for me but obviously most of the/you disgruntled guys here have developed a work-flow-methodology with the predecessor to Take Lanes that I can only assume has progressed similarly for most of you...and now, Take Lanes, which is a big improvement [for me] but is behaving badly for you all.  You learned a way to use a somewhat inferior iteration ...kinda like I developed my own violin tuning and learned that way first.  Now, Take Lanes to you is like my learning how to tune a violin.  Interesting development.
 
My advice for those of you who want to keep alternative ideas in a project... Just put your alt ideas on a track, give that version of your project a different name...like xxx.alt 1...and use "save as" for each version you try.  Nothing gets erased...just renamed so you'll know what they are.  Just forget about Take Lanes altogether if you aren't gonna use them the way they're intended to be used.  They don't act like regular tracks.  When you're recording a new Take, all other Lanes should be muted by default.  That's how it's supposed to be.  We don't want to hear all the previous versions while trying to lay down a fresh Take on a new Lane...That doesn't work.
 
I wish I could figure a way for you all to be happy with Take Lanes.  Or, come up with a NEW feature that allows you guys an option to use Take Lanes the way you expected.  So far, I'm not sure how you are/were trying to get Take Lanes to work.  What are the expectations?
 
Maybe you all have a different definition of what a 'Take" is?  Allow me to share an old-school understanding of what a Take is.  Hmm.
It's kinda like 'Take a shot at it'.  It's a definite part of a piece of music or narration or whatever the audio content...and you try it this way and that way so you can pick and choose, "Comp", the best parts at any given point as the audio is running.  Take 1, take 2, etc.  Take Lanes are not places to store random ideas...unless they're actual Takes that fit a specific part of a mix.
 
Hey, I don't want to come off like some kind of a preacher here, so, I go away now.  I'm just an older version of you, trying to help solve a problem.  Good luck!
Dub
 

overdub
My advice for those of you who want to keep alternative ideas in a project... Just put your alt ideas on a track, give that version of your project a different name...like xxx.alt 1...and use "save as" for each version you try.  Nothing gets erased...just renamed so you'll know what they are.  Just forget about Take Lanes altogether if you aren't gonna use them the way they're intended to be used.

 
I wonder what is so difficult for the programmers to just hide muted MIDI clips in the track when the lanes are collapsed. The answer is......no, it's not difficult, it's just that they overlooked it. That's why I sent in a feature request and also mentioned its inconvenience in this thread. Also, the clips landing on a different lane randomly when you bounce them (which I showed in my original post) should be fixed.
 
When there are problems, inconveniences, etc., you ask for fixes and improvements, instead of just accepting them and doing nothing.

neirbod
Drums is one situation that comes up a lot, and for good reason.  Multimicing an instrument that typically has no clean breaks (so efficient nudging of notes and cross fading is a must for editing) within a song poses problems.  If you have developed an efficient workflow for how to work with a drum session from start to finish (i.e., multiple takes, comping, editing) using take lanes I am eager to hear what it is.  Otherwise you may want to consider that there is a genuine issue here, not just some folks who are stubbornly holding on to outdated workflows.

+100000!!!

I have been saying this since X2!  Because of this exact scenerio X2 was not used at all.
I now use X1 to track, comp, etc. and X3 to mix.
X3 is simply a nightmare for me when it comes to comping real drums.

Every video I have seen is using Addictive Drums, Session Drummer, or something that has clean breaks and is 100% on the grid.  That is very unrealistic for me because I record live bands.
 
Doing this in X1 with Track Layers was easy as pie.  Consistent and somewhat predictable results every time.  I cannot overstate how quick it is for comping live instruments.
 
If anyone at all has any videos/screencasts/etc of a workflow for comping real drums in X3 please post a link.

> I will reserve further ranting until after X3d is released...
 
Exactly, it will be quite refreshing to have something new to b*tch about next week, fingers crossed...

I'd like to state that I don't want to be frustrated and complaining.  I know that the guys/gals at Cakewalk have a tough job and probably irritates them that 1000 great things they've done for the software have been overshadowed by one feature that makes the product almost unusable (at least for me in recording).  I'd be frustrated if I were on the Cake team.

But, I paid for software two years in a row that has bugs/issues/unclear-workflow with a feature that is integral.  The true annoyance to me is that I liked track layers and was efficient with them, so this is all just a leap backward.

summarising these kind of threads is a great idea

Anderton
Question...I'm having a hard time digesting all the information here.

I think various contributors need to start some independent threads dedicated to specific issues related to their personal workflows. There is at least one "oh wait a minute - user error" post, and several references to lanes not working as well as layers but with no clear description of what the specific issues are. I also noted various "issues" that I think are WAD, albeit a little unintuitive and maybe in need of change or added user-control/options. But there's just too much going on in this thread to try to address these individual items.
 
 
 
 

CakeAlexS
> I will reserve further ranting until after X3d is released... Exactly, it will be quite refreshing to have something new to b*tch about next week, fingers crossed...

Wouldn't it be nice...

A version with only minor bugs and issues?

That would truly be a Happy Holiday for all!

;-)

Keni

Anderton
Question...I'm having a hard time digesting all the information here. Is the following summary of the opinions here correct: 1. Take Lanes are most problematic with MIDI tracks, less so with audio.2. Some people have issues with Take Lane cosmetics (e.g., not sufficient variation in track heights)3. For those using Take Lanes to do traditional-style comping (e.g., lead vocal, guitar part, etc.) it works fine.4. For those using Take Lanes to do comping of multi-tracked sources (e.g., acoustic drum part with multiple mics, there are issues. Is this correct? I've been using Take Lanes in the context of (3) and find the speed comping to be incredibly useful, but I haven't really worked with MIDI comping yet.

Hi Craig...

Well... That's a bit simplified, but close...

MIDI tracks has bugs more than feature issues I'm told. I am very happy with sound on sound for MIDI tracks the way I work...

Zooming? A major issue for the kind of editing I often do... Big problem for me there...

Take Lanes are NOT good for my traditioan comping as you mention above... I see how the system wants me to work, but it just don't cut it for my needs... If it was simply a different way to do the same job that would be one thing, but it's not... The end result may be the same but what an engineer/producer needs to do is very situational as well as personal...

Little issues which bug me and entice me are a different matter too as I find many of these tools can be good for a particular time and place but not for a standard/default... Even something as simple as an on/off button for the set of comping tools would quickly solve that... But I run into extra work because my needs don't always allow me to evenly splice areas and the ability to select/solo a take/clip is sometimes handy and sometimes unsatisfactory as it starts to play from where I click to select and can't start playback before the material I want to listen to as it's the beginning of a clip... So I clumsily select the clip than I must relocatee using the mouse at screen top to hear from the clip's beginning....

<dmn> I didn't want to go thru this stuff again... Sorry... I'm gonna stop here tho the issues are far deeper... Suffice it to say that so far lanes don't even come up to layers for me let alone improve on them...

Keni

i asked for these things back in x2 and still nothing...
 
being able to choose which take is the 'priority' take when you collapse... i mean, how could they not have seen that in a beta test... 

elijahlucian
i asked for these things back in x2 and still nothing... being able to choose which take is the 'priority' take when you collapse... i mean, how could they not have seen that in a beta test... 

Unless I'm mistaken, that's one of the useful things I found in X3c... If you've "promoted" the clips/takes you want, they do correctly appear on the closed track... ( well, most of the time as I just stubled on a situation where this wasn't happening quite right... I have to research it more before I decide on reporting as well as waiting for X3d to discover what we now have! ;-)

Keni

Let me point you to your own thread:
what about making sonar x2 stable?
 
Let's carry on with topic of takelanes here...