jamesg1213
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/18 19:06:36
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SuperMarioGamer
jamesg1213
SuperMarioGamer
I have added chords and whatnot to some of my tunes though.
I'm interested in this 'whatnot' you keep mentioning. Can you be more specific?
I should have said "Chords and a beat" rather than "Chords and whatnot."
Oh. Well that's disappointing. Mind you, I bet Beethoven couldn't add beats. Except in his head of course. And written down.
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SuperMarioGamer
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/18 19:13:09
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ØSkald
SuperMarioGamer
jamesg1213
SuperMarioGamer
I have added chords and whatnot to some of my tunes though.
I'm interested in this 'whatnot' you keep mentioning. Can you be more specific?
I should have said "Chords and a beat" rather than "Chords and whatnot."
SuperMarioGamer.
Show me great music with 4 note melody.
Do you have any example of this great art?
The Beethoven one is not 4 notes. just the motive are. And the greatness is not the motive but how he uses it throughout. Like the part right after it is played 6 times in upwards motion and released with a extended version of the motive. That is just the 6 bars inn. How he uses the motive here is what makes it great.
I'm saying that Beethoven's motive alone is good music. I do have an example of how just a few notes can be good, catchy music. In the game The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, when the character Link obtains an item such as a piece of heart, a very brief tune plays which conveys the acquiring of that item. Here is a link to it: https://youtu.be/ldYCM6F3Xhw
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ØSkald
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/18 19:20:10
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SuperMarioGamer
ØSkald
SuperMarioGamer
jamesg1213
SuperMarioGamer
I have added chords and whatnot to some of my tunes though.
I'm interested in this 'whatnot' you keep mentioning. Can you be more specific?
I should have said "Chords and a beat" rather than "Chords and whatnot."
SuperMarioGamer.
Show me great music with 4 note melody.
Do you have any example of this great art?
The Beethoven one is not 4 notes. just the motive are. And the greatness is not the motive but how he uses it throughout. Like the part right after it is played 6 times in upwards motion and released with a extended version of the motive. That is just the 6 bars inn. How he uses the motive here is what makes it great.
I'm saying that Beethoven's motive alone is good music. I do have an example of how just a few notes can be good, catchy music. In the game The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, when the character Link obtains an item such as a piece of heart, a very brief tune plays which conveys the acquiring of that item. Here is a link to it:
https://youtu.be/ldYCM6F3Xhw
That is not simple. it is very complex orchestration to get those harmonis. It is not melody but chords in progress.
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SuperMarioGamer
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/18 19:42:27
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But that's all based off of a simple melody, is it not? If I crafted my simple melodies, wouldn't they be good just like that tune in the video? However, even if the tune in that youtube video didn't have all those complex elements to it, was just a simple melody, and had something simple to go along with it such as a beat and chords, then I bet it would still be a good tune.
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ØSkald
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/18 19:51:28
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No sorry. that’s why I recorded the Beethoven intro without strings and just a mono piano to make you see that the sole melody is not strong at all. It is just 4 notes with almost no movement at all. Everything you love with the Beethoven Symphony 5 opening is the musicianship and orchestration. And how it is repeated through with small and greater changes of the motive.
Same her. In you example you hear many instruments together making rich chords. Things like this is almost always used as a short instrumental part in a song. Like Earth Wind and Fire- Shining Star. Just a musical effect in the song, to make it less boring.
it starts at 1:01
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SuperMarioGamer
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/18 20:01:48
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ØSkald
No sorry. that’s why I recorded the Beethoven intro without strings and just a mono piano to make you see that the sole melody is not strong at all. It is just 4 notes with almost no movement at all. Everything you love with the Beethoven Symphony 5 opening is the musicianship and orchestration. And how it is repeated through with small and greater changes of the motive.
Same her. In you example you hear many instruments together making rich chords. Things like this is almost always used as a short instrumental part in a song. Like Earth Wind and Fire- Shining Star. Just a musical effect in the song, to make it less boring.
it starts at 1:01
So, if I took my simple melodies and make them strong, then would they be as good and catchy or even better than that Zelda tune? I don't think I need to do anything with the melody such as making smaller and greater changes to it, do I? Couldn't I just have the strong, crafted melody itself and that be something good and catchy? Like I said though, I do plan on creating fully crafted songs someday. However, I'm merely asking if this would be good enough for now.
post edited by SuperMarioGamer - 2018/09/18 20:43:44
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msmcleod
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 00:07:00
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This inspired me to write a song.... https://www.bandlab.com/msmcleod/mymusicisgoodenough-masterwav-7ae87?revId=89498e6b-9fbb-e811-af11-00155d60cb1b [Edit]: Although the above is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, I was actually trying to demonstrate a point here... I took the melody of yours that jemmz posted, and developed it further. The lyrics were just based on the theme of this thread. Now, I'm not saying what I did is any good (the AlterEgo voice is BAD, but I've got a cold and can't speak never mind sing), but it does give your tune context. Context is important for any tune. Even if you take those 5 notes from Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind - which have no chords or anything - it does have context in the film, and that is what invokes the emotion. No-one knows the context of your tunes, so you have to provide one.
post edited by msmcleod - 2018/09/19 12:13:40
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Beagle
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 13:06:26
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Starise
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 13:08:56
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☄ Helpfulby ØSkald 2018/09/19 13:27:42
Not taking any sides here. I think maybe some here took you for a kid who didn't wanna work. Approaching the subject in the way you have seems to encourage simplicity and indirectly slam complexity. That probably isn't what you intended. I think that's how it came off...like. I don't need to do much. I can make a nice pop tune without much effort.
There are LOTS of kids with daws who don't want to put much effort into anything. I don't think this approach should be encouraged. Learn to play something and then buy a daw...or at the least learn some basic music theory.
Lots of classical music was built from a simple motif. On that we agree. HOWEVER it gets more complex in structure using that motif. BIG difference there.
Another thing you need to consider is people are sick of pop music, simple beat driven three chord pop music. I think I can say the musician crowd feels that way. Maybe the general public not so much. They have been conditioned on it since birth.
The autotune or vocoder doesn't help to make your point.
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ØSkald
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 13:24:22
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msmcleod
This inspired me to write a song....
https://www.bandlab.com/msmcleod/mymusicisgoodenough-masterwav-7ae87?revId=89498e6b-9fbb-e811-af11-00155d60cb1b
[Edit]: Although the above is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, I was actually trying to demonstrate a point here...
I took the melody of yours that jemmz posted, and developed it further.
The lyrics were just based on the theme of this thread.
Now, I'm not saying what I did is any good (the AlterEgo voice is BAD, but I've got a cold and can't speak never mind sing), but it does give your tune context.
Context is important for any tune. Even if you take those 5 notes from Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind - which have no chords or anything - it does have context in the film, and that is what invokes the emotion.
No-one knows the context of your tunes, so you have to provide one.
Wow dude. Right on.
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ØSkald
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 13:32:30
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Starise
Not taking any sides here. I think maybe some here took you for a kid who didn't wanna work. Approaching the subject in the way you have seems to encourage simplicity and indirectly slam complexity. That probably isn't what you intended. I think that's how it came off...like. I don't need to do much. I can make a nice pop tune without much effort.
There are LOTS of kids with daws who don't want to put much effort into anything. I don't think this approach should be encouraged. Learn to play something and then buy a daw...or at the least learn some basic music theory.
Lots of classical music was built from a simple motif. On that we agree. HOWEVER it gets more complex in structure using that motif. BIG difference there.
Another thing you need to consider is people are sick of pop music, simple beat driven three chord pop music. I think I can say the musician crowd feels that way. Maybe the general public not so much. They have been conditioned on it since birth.
The autotune or vocoder doesn't help to make your point.
right on. The point is, you don't need 10 yrs of music theory to start make music. But you need the craving to know why thing work and other don't. The craving or wanting to know how it works.
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pwalpwal
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 13:35:47
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fwiw, posting here invites constructive criticism (from other producers/musicians), if you don't want that then just post to bandlab, or facebook, where it's just music consumers?
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Mesh
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 14:13:08
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On the plus side, these type of posts from SMG have invoked some very interesting comments......musical as well as psychological. (i.e. Beagle's last post could go either way  )
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Beagle
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 15:27:33
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Mesh
On the plus side, these type of posts from SMG have invoked some very interesting comments......musical as well as psychological. (i.e. Beagle's last post could go either way )
Not for me cause I'm a legend in my own mind. Much like SMG
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Mesh
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 15:33:43
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Beagle
Mesh
On the plus side, these type of posts from SMG have invoked some very interesting comments......musical as well as psychological. (i.e. Beagle's last post could go either way )
Not for me cause I'm a legend in my own mind. Much like SMG
How many notes did it take you? (Name That Tune)
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Beagle
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 16:34:55
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☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2018/09/19 17:13:32
Mesh
Beagle
Mesh
On the plus side, these type of posts from SMG have invoked some very interesting comments......musical as well as psychological. (i.e. Beagle's last post could go either way )
Not for me cause I'm a legend in my own mind. Much like SMG
How many notes did it take you?
(Name That Tune)
My music is so dang good that I've transcended above the need for notes. Beat-hoven likes it. He told me from the grave.
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jackson white
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 17:16:22
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☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2018/09/19 18:42:56
<disclaimer> Breaking a rule to never post on anything non-technical, but there's some great humour in this thread, whether intentional or not and I'm stranded at an airport, plus I've come across variations on this theme elsewhere. </disclaimer> SuperMarioGamer
My whole goal in composing is to share music that other people would really love. But, I suspect people are having too high of a standard which is preventing them from appreciating the greatness and catchiness of my tunes.
...
Therefore, I'm asking others to lower their standards so they can appreciate my tunes. I think such a lowered standard is a reasonable standard.
Why should anyone lower their standards to meet your level of commitment to the art and craft of musical composition? Would Bayern Munich let me on the pitch just because I had two legs? SuperMarioGamer
"Bom bom bom booooooooooom. Bom bom bom boooooooooom."
...
Now, even if Beethoven stopped there and decided to only share that, it would still be something great.
No, it would not be great. As stated elsewhere, it is the context of the -entire- composition, regardless of what you think. SuperMarioGamer
I truly think I'm making an excellent choice of notes that I have yet to make into a full craft
Sounds like you have more imagination than work ethic or craftmanship. "make into a full craft" is the craft. You have to actually do something before anyone can appreciate what's inside your head. SuperMarioGamer
But I heard that greatness is entirely subjective when it comes to music.
No, it's not entirely subjective. Creativity must be acknowledged by someone other than yourself. If you are sole judge of your greatness, you have plenty of company on FB or in mental institutions. SuperMarioGamer
My point is, if I wish to create music that pleases many people, then my music would have to be fully crafted songs that meet their expectations. But, if I only wish to please a crowd who appreciates simple, good, catchy tunes, then I don't need to create fully crafted songs.
If your friends and family like your "excellent choice of notes", good for you, they are your audience and no need to seek approval here or elsewhere. Or put in the work to create fully crafted songs. If you are exploring the potential for something more than the obvious career choice of music for electronic games, perhaps your destiny is to be a jingle writer where you can be well paid for a simple catchy melody to sell burgers. In my experience though, the professionals that pursue either direction are highly trained, hard working and proficient musicians. Or maybe nursery rhymes, which have an element of cognitive simplicity that transcends language/cultural boundaries. You could look into Leonard Bernstein's lectures at Harvard on the universal appeal of certain melodic fragments, many of which can be found in classical compositions. ... ØSkald
I made you this song. The melody is easy but really catchy...
https://soundcloud.com/oy...beethoven-5-sym-repeat
@ØSkald. Brilliant. Reminded me of Andy Kaufman and one of his musical performances. ... jamesg1213
You're not deaf as well are you?
@jamesg1213. Haha, nice one, assuming the OP knew Beethoven was deaf, but given the tenacity in this thread for justifying mediocrity, most likely just naive.
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bayoubill
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 17:20:50
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note to self - Beag's music is dog gone good!!!!!!!
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Mesh
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 17:24:11
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Beagle
Mesh
Beagle
Mesh
On the plus side, these type of posts from SMG have invoked some very interesting comments......musical as well as psychological. (i.e. Beagle's last post could go either way )
Not for me cause I'm a legend in my own mind. Much like SMG
How many notes did it take you?
(Name That Tune)
My music is so dang good that I've transcended above the need for notes.
Beat-hoven likes it. He told me from the grave.
I saw that movie Beat-Hoven, that was a cute St. Bernard......whoa wait a minute now, is this some kind of transcended dog hearing thing?
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eph221
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 18:38:55
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what the hell have you people been smoking?
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tlw
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 18:47:36
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jackson white
Or maybe nursery rhymes, which have an element of cognitive simplicity that transcends language/cultural boundaries.
I thought of nursery rhymes as a possible candidate for what SMB’s on about. But repetition of a plain, undecorated or varied nursery rhyme tune gets boring very quickly, especially without words. Much traditional music with its’ roots in Europe is based on repeated 8-bar melodic phrases, usually of an AABB repetition with A and B being different but related and often played as a stand-alone melody, with no harmonic support at all. But it’s rare for there to be no variation or decoration - to the point that many musicians never play the tune quite the same way every time. Unaccompanied singing works the same way. Much EDM uses a similar or even simpler format, but again there is usually variation of some kind. Even the 1 bar repeated patterns from a TB-303 are usually varied over time by use of the filter and envelope. Put another way, humans like repetition but we also like there to be subtle, or not so subtle, variation going on as well, even where repetition is a big factor in the music’s function and appeal. And a short, stand alone melody has to be very good indeed, as demonstrated by advertising or other jingles which stick in your head whether you want them to or not.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 18:50:51
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☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2018/09/19 19:12:09
From the top, hummed in the key of A minor:
V1:
Dum-di-dum-di-doodley-plop Tata-dump Tatatatata ddodley-dump.
Chorus:
Ka-ka-ka- dum dum la-la-la-la oodley-flump (x2)
V2:
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh babeeeeeeeeeeeey
Chorus
Guitar Han Solo:
(best whistled with a jaunty persuasion)
Chorus x2
Outro:
Same as V1 only modulated to encompass liberal ad-libs of the Am note
Fade.
Rinse.
Repeat.
Game, set, and dare I say match to Straummy I believe.
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Beepster
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 19:02:03
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@Straummy...
You forgot to include a few "chalawallas" in there.
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Mesh
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 19:14:02
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Heheheheheh........Straummy said Tata....... heheheheheh
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SuperMarioGamer
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 19:20:30
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msmcleod
This inspired me to write a song....
https://www.bandlab.com/msmcleod/mymusicisgoodenough-masterwav-7ae87?revId=89498e6b-9fbb-e811-af11-00155d60cb1b
[Edit]: Although the above is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, I was actually trying to demonstrate a point here...
I took the melody of yours that jemmz posted, and developed it further.
The lyrics were just based on the theme of this thread.
Now, I'm not saying what I did is any good (the AlterEgo voice is BAD, but I've got a cold and can't speak never mind sing), but it does give your tune context.
Context is important for any tune. Even if you take those 5 notes from Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind - which have no chords or anything - it does have context in the film, and that is what invokes the emotion.
No-one knows the context of your tunes, so you have to provide one.
@msmcleod: I did explain the context of my tunes. For example, with my Haunting Tune, I said it was good, catchy, and conveyed profound horror. But, even so, people still told me it was nothing good, catchy, didn't convey any horror, and was just an awful tune. As for that song you just did, my melody you used has one note missing. Of course, you could have done that intentionally. But I will show you my melody once more. I will have you listen to it. Another thing is that I have revised some things with this melody to make it better because I think the tempo was a bit too slow and the half notes shouldn't have had those 8th notes extended onto them: Here is the youtube link to this tune: https://youtu.be/Y5tW_I2hWdE
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Beagle
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 20:15:56
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"You WILL listen...and you WILL like it!"
-SMG
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msmcleod
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 20:35:46
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SuperMarioGamer
I did explain the context of my tunes. For example, with my Haunting Tune, I said it was good, catchy, and conveyed profound horror. But, even so, people still told me it was nothing good, catchy, didn't convey any horror, and was just an awful tune.
I'm aware of that, but the point I was making is that the context shouldn't need explaining textually. If someone heard it on the radio, how would they get that context? Things like sound effects, or the musical equivalent (like the stabs in the Psycho shower scene) can help to convey the context you're trying to portray. SuperMarioGamer
As for that song you just did, my melody you used has one note missing.
As I said, it was a "development" and fitted better without the extra note. SuperMarioGamer
Of course, you could have done that intentionally. But I will show you my melody once more. I will have you listen to it. Another thing is that I have revised some things with this melody to make it better because I think the tempo was a bit too slow and the half notes shouldn't have had those 8th notes extended onto them:
Here is the youtube link to this tune:
https://youtu.be/Y5tW_I2hWdE
Actually, you've done a bit more than revised the melody. There's some percussion for starters. Also the melody starts off more simple before developing into your original tune. As such, it's a vast improvement over the earlier version posted. The percussion also gives it some context. Whether it's "good enough" or not, is largely subjective. But it's certainly a step in the right direction.
Mark McLeod Cakewalk by BL | ASUS P8B75-V, Intel I5 3570 16GB RAM Win 10 64 + Win 7 64/32 SSD HD's, Scarlett 18i20 / 6i6 | ASUS ROG GL552VW 16GB RAM Win 10 64 SSD HD's, Scarlett 2i2 | Behringer Truth B2030A / Edirol MA-5A | Mackie MCU + C4 + XT | 2 x BCF2000, Korg NanoKontrol Studio
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SuperMarioGamer
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 21:06:30
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msmcleod
SuperMarioGamer
I did explain the context of my tunes. For example, with my Haunting Tune, I said it was good, catchy, and conveyed profound horror. But, even so, people still told me it was nothing good, catchy, didn't convey any horror, and was just an awful tune.
I'm aware of that, but the point I was making is that the context shouldn't need explaining textually. If someone heard it on the radio, how would they get that context? Things like sound effects, or the musical equivalent (like the stabs in the Psycho shower scene) can help to convey the context you're trying to portray.
SuperMarioGamer
As for that song you just did, my melody you used has one note missing.
As I said, it was a "development" and fitted better without the extra note.
SuperMarioGamer
Of course, you could have done that intentionally. But I will show you my melody once more. I will have you listen to it. Another thing is that I have revised some things with this melody to make it better because I think the tempo was a bit too slow and the half notes shouldn't have had those 8th notes extended onto them:
Here is the youtube link to this tune:
https://youtu.be/Y5tW_I2hWdE
Actually, you've done a bit more than revised the melody. There's some percussion for starters. Also the melody starts off more simple before developing into your original tune.
As such, it's a vast improvement over the earlier version posted. The percussion also gives it some context.
Whether it's "good enough" or not, is largely subjective. But it's certainly a step in the right direction.
As for my dramatic tune I shared to you, does my melody convey a dramatic scene? I don't mean anything sad, miserable, or depressing. I mean something heavy and dark such as something serious about to happen. I mean, I could choose a scene to go along with my melody if I wanted to. But I'm not sure if people would say that my melody conveys what I described. The same idea applies to my Haunting Tune. As a matter of fact, people might tell me my melodies are awful, gibberish, and convey nothing regardless of what scene or sound effects I choose to go along with them. I'm not sure if people would find them catchy either because I also say they're catchy.
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kson
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/19 22:54:17
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☄ Helpfulby jackson white 2018/09/20 01:36:54
This thread is hilarious! Tears in my eyes hilarious...
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SuperMarioGamer
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Re: I think my music is good enough as it is
2018/09/20 00:57:03
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It all depends on the person. For some people, they need a fully crafted song in order for melodies to become something great, catchy, and convey certain scenes in their eyes. However, some people can pick this up very fast and only require a simple melody.
I can relate to this because I had a friend who shared a simple, catchy rap melody he created himself and shared to me. Even though it was just a melody and nothing more, I got the intended vibe already from that melody. So, for me, he didn't need anything more to that melody; the melody was already great and catchy in my eyes.
I bet if I never heard of Beethoven's 5th symphony and someone just shared the motive in the beginning of his symphony to me and nothing more (those 4 notes on the higher and lower octaves), that I would already pick up on the greatness and catchiness of that melody.
I bet I would already perceive it as a melody worthy of becoming famous. But, for other people who cannot pick up on that as fast as me, they require the rest of the symphony or, at least, some of the symphony in order for the melody's greatness and catchiness to get across to them.
I think it all depends on who you are. Since professionals have adapted to a higher standard, then they require more than a simple melody in order for a melody to become something great and catchy.
It would be no different than how a person has adapted to a higher standard of writing. They would require more than the basic, average writing skill in order for it to be good writing and for them to get the intended message of the writer.
For example, having some spelling, punctuation, or grammatical errors might render a professional English teacher not understanding the student's writing and perceiving his/her writing as awful gibberish.
If not awful gibberish, then something that's not good writing. But, someone who has adapted to a lower standard of writing would see that student's writing as something good and that person would clearly understand the intended message of the writer.
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