Helpful ReplyI'm Disapointed in X3

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CJaysMusic
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2013/10/25 12:12:07 (permalink)

I'm Disapointed in X3

I filed a bug report because you cannot scroll the tracks(clips) up and down, to move and see only one track at the top of the Track View anymore. You where able to do this in all the other 12 Sonar versions, including X1 and X2, Sonar 8,7,6, 5, 4 and on and on...
 
I got an email yesterday saying this was "Intended Behavior and I need to file a feature request."." So they 'intended' to take away this feature?? and now I have to file a feature request for something that has been in Sonar for over 10 years!!
 
They also 'intended' to take away you from seeing 4 sends in the console view! Whats next, are they going to take away the ability to scroll left and right?
 
Cakewalk, Upgrade instead of Downgrade!!We pay for upgrades, not downgrades!!!
 
Yours Truly,
CJ
 
 
post edited by CJaysMusic - 2013/10/26 08:57:37

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#1
brundlefly
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 12:20:00 (permalink)
CJ, are you talking about how vertical zoom now jumps the view up to show (and zoom)  track 1? No way that's "intended". It's on my list to report.
 
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gswitz
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 12:20:52 (permalink)
Little harsh, cj.

Just my opinion.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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CJaysMusic
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 12:25:43 (permalink)
Brundy, its not the zoom. Its just the scroll that you can do with the mouse wheel and the page up and down keys, so you can only see 1 track at top of the track view with a project of more than 1 tracks This no longer works in X3, because they intended it not to work anymore.
 
Gs ,im not harsh. IM just fed up with this. If they take features out, they should list what they take out.

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#4
gswitz
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 12:42:18 (permalink)
I think the change was with the scrolling change to try to allow partial tracks for a smoother scrolling experience. They added that you can't scroll to use less than half the window.

I know it is a bummer.

A work around would be to add a dummy track to the bottom and make it big. Not perfect, but an idea.

You know that I reported this too.

Best, g

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#5
CJaysMusic
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 12:57:09 (permalink)
Its not a smoother experience for me. Just add some code to make it so you can scroll to only see one track at top. That is all it takes.

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#6
pdarg
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 12:59:29 (permalink)
I noticed this too, and I agree with you.
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CJaysMusic
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 13:00:52 (permalink)
PD!!! Love you man LOL

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#8
markyzno
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 13:08:49 (permalink)
minor gripe. X3 is the business.

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Leadfoot
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 13:12:47 (permalink)
I agree Marky.
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Jackdied
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 13:14:28 (permalink)
This feature was one of the most special thing for workflow. I want it back too. 
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CJaysMusic
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 13:16:10 (permalink)
markyzno
minor gripe. X3 is the business.


For you its minor. For me and others its HUGE.  I used that feature daily in every project, now i cant. That is not minor. When they start taking things out little by little. It will add up in time and its likely that one of these little things will effect you in a big way some day

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Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 13:21:36 (permalink)
CJaysMusic
I filed a bug report because you cannot scroll the tracks(clips) up and down, to move and see only one track at the top of the Track View anymore. You where able to do this in all the other 12 Sonar versions, including X1 and X2, Sonar 8,7,6, 5, 4 and on and on...
 
I got an email yesterday saying this was "Intended Behavior and I need to file a feature request."." So they 'intended' to take away this feature?? and now I have to file a feature request for something that has been in Sonar for over 10 years!!
 
They also 'intended' to take away you from seeing 4 sends in the console view! Whats next, are they going to take away the ability to scroll left and right?
 
Cakewalk, Upgrade instead of Downgrade!!We pay for upgrades, not downgrades!!!
 
Yours Truly,
CJ



Previously, as most people know, scrolling in the track pane would snap to the top of a track. X3 introduced fractional scrolling, as gswitz stated, to smooth out the UI experience. This 'snap' scrolling introduced many undesirable UI and editing behaviors in regards to automation/take lanes, auto-zoom, track zoom, quick grouping, audio snap, editing, etc.

There's 2 alternative work flows that will allow you to have the same behavior as before.

1) Adjust the Track pane to limit UI real-estate to be the size of one track. You'll then be able to scroll to the last track. You could even set it up where the Bus Pane limits the size and you can toggle it via hotkey.
2) Pull up the track manager and select the tracks which you want to see.

The track pane is working as intended so it is not a bug. That is why it was recommended to submit a feature request.
 
brundlefly
CJ, are you talking about how vertical zoom now jumps the view up to show (and zoom)  track 1? No way that's "intended". It's on my list to report.
 
Dave


 
This issue should be fixed in the next patch. I just regressed it 
post edited by Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk] - 2013/10/25 13:28:19

Best Regards,
Seth
#13
gswitz
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 14:28:59 (permalink)
I wonder if the developers would share why they made the change. It would be nice to know.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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gswitz
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 14:32:46 (permalink)
Thanks Seth! I appreciate you chiming in.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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lfm
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 14:46:05 (permalink)
If to wish something here - it would be to have trackview a little context sensitive zones, like the right 10% (or 100 pixels) of track view would react to vertical only and the rest horizontal reaction.
 
This goes for all actions with mousewheel and combination with key.
Some more options in settings allowing this would be swell.
 
Reaper also acts differently when using mousewheel over track panels and in the track view clips part. Very easy to navigate without thinking at all.
 
Current operation forced in both directlons simulateneously is not useful - not to me anyway. No way I can foresee what will happend.
 
 
#16
John T
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 14:48:52 (permalink)
Not arguing with the use case, just curious: what do you use this for?

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gswitz
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 14:58:27 (permalink)
Lfm, Google 'cakewalk feature request' and enter your request through their official sight.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#18
lfm
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 15:10:04 (permalink)
gswitz
Lfm, Google 'cakewalk feature request' and enter your request through their official sight.

Thanks, but I think the punch is heavier if I can refer to a link with much love for the idea.
 
Navigation stuff was up anyway, I mean.
#19
John
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 15:13:18 (permalink)
I am having trouble visualizing this as a problem. To be frank I haven't noticed a change. If someone would post a short vid screen capture of this as a problem it would help. 

Best
John
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stevec
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 15:16:47 (permalink)
Me too, John.  While I understand what the new "fractional scrolling" does, I do quite understand exactly what it CJ is trying to do; i.e., what's not fitting correctly in the TV.
 
 

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#21
Danny Danzi
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 15:52:34 (permalink)
CJ: If I could make changes to Sonar, what you mentioned here would be my #1 pet peeve. (along with better color options) I seriously and wholeheartedly hate this new scrolling feature and wish with every ounce of my being that we had at least an option to change it back. The only work-around at this time for me is to hold "shift" while mouse scrolling which will at least give you a half a scroll instead of it totally making your tracks all jacked. Try holding Shift when you mouse scroll. You'll see it's better, but it still makes me cringe.
 
I mean no disrespect, but is there any way to give us an option to still use an old feature like this that has existed for several versions of Sonar without just doing away with it? I totally understand why the change was made and that there are probably more people "for" the new way than those of us who may be against it. Proof of that is on the forum as not many have expressed their dislike for this. Honest I'm not trying to sound harsh. I'm just a guy that always likes "options" or at least the chance to go back to something that is useful in my work-flow, ya know? I've just always been against doing away with something totally with no option to go back. For certain things, I can understand...for others....the more options, the better for me.
 
I honestly cannot get used to this. It's jacking my buses up so bad I find myself really getting frustrated and annoyed. Can't we implement a scroll control or something? I can't believe there aren't more users complaining about this. So that tells me.....
 
CJ, we must be missing the boat and must have to revise how we do things. Do you guys not use your middle mouse wheel to scroll tracks? For those that consider it minor, unfortunately it's huge for some of us. Especially if you run a business and may have 60-80 tracks with 10 or more buses. Trust me when I tell you, it's been one of the most annoying things for me in this release. I can't say enough good about X3...but this is such a frustrating thing, it makes me seem more negative than I need to be only because of how often I am constantly mouse scrolling tracks....only to have them not end up where I want them. They go right on by, or I get a quarter of a track, or a half of a track...so I either have to make them big where I lose real estate or I use Shift and have to do two mouse scroll clicks to see one track in full view. The smaller I make my tracks, the worse this becomes.
 
Please give us the option to change this back Cakewalk....I'm soo begging. Heck, I'll even personally pay for it if it's not too pricey. :)
 
-Danny

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#22
Danny Danzi
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 15:52:54 (permalink)
John, gimme 10 mins....I'll do one now for you.
 

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Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 16:10:43 (permalink)
Danny Danzi
CJ: If I could make changes to Sonar, what you mentioned here would be my #1 pet peeve. (along with better color options) I seriously and wholeheartedly hate this new scrolling feature and wish with every ounce of my being that we had at least an option to change it back. The only work-around at this time for me is to hold "shift" while mouse scrolling which will at least give you a half a scroll instead of it totally making your tracks all jacked. Try holding Shift when you mouse scroll. You'll see it's better, but it still makes me cringe.
 
I mean no disrespect, but is there any way to give us an option to still use an old feature like this that has existed for several versions of Sonar without just doing away with it? I totally understand why the change was made and that there are probably more people "for" the new way than those of us who may be against it. Proof of that is on the forum as not many have expressed their dislike for this. Honest I'm not trying to sound harsh. I'm just a guy that always likes "options" or at least the chance to go back to something that is useful in my work-flow, ya know? I've just always been against doing away with something totally with no option to go back. For certain things, I can understand...for others....the more options, the better for me.
 
I honestly cannot get used to this. It's jacking my buses up so bad I find myself really getting frustrated and annoyed. Can't we implement a scroll control or something? I can't believe there aren't more users complaining about this. So that tells me.....
 
CJ, we must be missing the boat and must have to revise how we do things. Do you guys not use your middle mouse wheel to scroll tracks? For those that consider it minor, unfortunately it's huge for some of us. Especially if you run a business and may have 60-80 tracks with 10 or more buses. Trust me when I tell you, it's been one of the most annoying things for me in this release. I can't say enough good about X3...but this is such a frustrating thing, it makes me seem more negative than I need to be only because of how often I am constantly mouse scrolling tracks....only to have them not end up where I want them. They go right on by, or I get a quarter of a track, or a half of a track...so I either have to make them big where I lose real estate or I use Shift and have to do two mouse scroll clicks to see one track in full view. The smaller I make my tracks, the worse this becomes.
 
Please give us the option to change this back Cakewalk....I'm soo begging. Heck, I'll even personally pay for it if it's not too pricey. :)
 
-Danny



I'm pretty sure CJ isn't complaining about the scroll by track/fractional scrolling, but the in-ability to scroll the track pane regardless of track count to only display 1 track.

Best Regards,
Seth
#24
dke
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 16:16:14 (permalink)
Honestly I just don't see why it would matter whether that you can't scroll the last track to the top.  I use the mouse wheel to scroll all the time and I've never even noticed I can't scroll the last track to the top, or could in X2 and prior.  I just don't see what could or couldn't be done either way.
 
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John T
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 16:30:31 (permalink)
Well, different things matter to different people.

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Danny Danzi
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 16:30:53 (permalink)
Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]

I'm pretty sure CJ isn't complaining about the scroll by track/fractional scrolling, but the in-ability to scroll the track pane regardless of track count to only display 1 track.




That must be something different then. I thought he meant what I was talking about when he said "you cannot scroll the tracks(clips) up and down, to move and see only one track at the top of the Track View anymore."
 
Isn't that the thing I'm talking about Seth? I go to scroll, and the track that comes next doesn't come fully to the forefront of my scroll to the top where it used to be completely visible. If I missed the boat...my bad...I'm of course not a fan of the fractional scrolling but I'm in the minority. I wish I could change my ways there...or get the option back to not have to use fractional scrolling. It's killing me Seth....even if I'm the only one. :(
 
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dke
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 16:36:52 (permalink)
John T
Well, different things matter to different people.


I was more just curious of why it would make a difference especially to the point of being disappointed in X3 in general over it.  I'm not against it or anything.
 
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 16:42:00 (permalink)
If you want to scroll by whole tracks, click on the scroll arrows.

Keith
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SuperG
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Re: I'm Disapointed in X3 2013/10/25 16:53:22 (permalink)
dke
I was more just curious of why it would make a difference especially to the point of being disappointed in X3 in general over it.  I'm not against it or anything.

 
Me too. The most this could possibly be is a niggle, and a extremely minor one at that, which is why some of us can't help but wonder at the five-alarm sirens being posted.  Changes to workflow do affect our comfort zone, but this one doesn't seem to be such an all encompassing change that the Apocalypse has begun.


laudem Deo
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