What is really wondering me: This behaviour ist related to Windows 10 - at it is said. I am on a W7 64 Bit System. But since the November update I experience also more stuttering,dropouts and crashes while playing or when handling with plugins then before. No matter, if I use Asio or WSAPI. I did not realized this at once. But this crackling / dropout behaviour is new for me.
 
Kind regards  

eltonechris
Craig. I have the utmost respect for you and your fantastic work... articles , tips etc. Cakewalk are lucky to have you.
 
However you are paid by Gibson and therefore your view is not independent. Please support me and the other users (Cakewalks paying customers) here to get an update on what is a very serious issue for a software app company to have with its OS platform provider.
 
I have customers that push me always to use pro tools and mac. I continue to use Sonar on Win and happy to make it's case, but this really does not help. I'm convinced Cakewalk have a strategy of silence while working this. In my view that is just not acceptable and I'm afraid is jumping back to the bad old days customer communication days under Roland and before.
 
I ask you to use some customer empathy and rather forget you internal insight and relationship with Cakewalk and think about how you would feel I'm my position, where the tool I use for putting food on the table is now unfit for purpose and my new projects are now in Reaper. I'm not sure how you can defend zero updates on the situation from Cakewalk. Do you. 

With all due respect, I cannot understand how anyone who counts on their computer to put food on their table would put 100% faith in any Windows or DAW application developers to always provide code updates 100% without errors.  Not ever going to happen...
 
So instead of blaming the developers for an inevitable problem, the simple answer is to roll back to a system image that was made prior to the issue.  Then wait for a fix, while you can still get your work done on a stable system.

dlesaux
I've heard about the fact that Microsoft changed something to so with timing in their last update. Is this a manifestation of that issue?

The explanation given by Microsoft that "The problem is related to a change in the timing for thread initialization on Windows" may be somewhat terse, and be less than clear to a non-technical person.
 
My interpretation is that this refers specifically to code in Windows internals, not to audio timing.  It's much deeper down than the audio layer.
 
While you may be experiencing some audio issues, this thread timing thing leads to crashes and other errors.
 
Windows is a hot mess.  It's a wonder it works at all, LOL!

microapp

pwalpwal
sorry if this has already been posted, but another possible workaround, from seth over on the steam forums, is to set compatibility mode to windows 8 on the sonar exe http://steamcommunity.com.../2/154643795213913095/hth

I would not have expected this if the issue is thread initialization.

indeed, and i haven't confirmed it myself as i don't have the issues others are seeing, but maybe it helps someone

Regarding the OP, Cakewalk has responded with the latest.

eltonechris
Craig. I have the utmost respect for you and your fantastic work... articles , tips etc. Cakewalk are lucky to have you.
 
However you are paid by Gibson and therefore your view is not independent. Please support me and the other users (Cakewalks paying customers) here to get an update on what is a very serious issue for a software app company to have with its OS platform provider.
 
I have customers that push me always to use pro tools and mac. I continue to use Sonar on Win and happy to make it's case, but this really does not help. I'm convinced Cakewalk have a strategy of silence while working this. In my view that is just not acceptable and I'm afraid is jumping back to the bad old days customer communication days under Roland and before.
 
I ask you to use some customer empathy and rather forget you internal insight and relationship with Cakewalk and think about how you would feel I'm my position, where the tool I use for putting food on the table is now unfit for purpose and my new projects are now in Reaper. I'm not sure how you can defend zero updates on the situation from Cakewalk. Do you. 

I truly do not understand how anyone could interpret my pointing out that there HAVE been updates as equivalent to defending zero updates. Please do let let your frustration get in the way of correctly assessing what I post.
 
I too am 100% dependent on computers to put food on my table, which means a lot more than just being able to run SONAR. That is why I re-image, back up, and have more than one computer as well as alternate interfaces "just in case" a system update breaks a driver. I cannot afford one day of down time, and have taken steps to minimize the odds of that happening.
 
I have a great deal of sympathy for anyone who has come to trust computer hardware and software, and gotten burned in the process. I've been there, more than once, on more than one platform, running more than one program. However, I also have a great deal of sympathy for companies who create sophisticated software that runs in a complex Windows ecosystem involving literally millions of permutations and combinations of hardware and software, which creates issues that will not always lend themselves to an immediate solution. 
 
In any event...in your thread you asked for Cakewalk to respond. In post #15 I showed that Cakewalk has been responding. You can say you don't like that the responses don't have an immediate solution, or that they're not posted prominently enough, but you cannot dismiss all those posts as representing a strategy of silence...and then there was another update 2-3 days after my initial post, which I brought to this thread's attention in post #42.
 
I really don't know what more Cakewalk could have said after finding out there was a problem other than what they said - "We are able to reproduce the issue and it appears to only affect some systems since it is timing related. We are actively working on a resolution and will release fixes to the affected plugins as soon as possible." The only relevant posts after that would be either "We found a solution," "We've found a workaround," or "We've given up, deal with it."
 
Note that I have consulted to computer companies since the mid-70s, and in terms of music software, have consulted to Steinberg, Avid, Acoustica, Ableton, Adobe, Native Instruments, and many others. My "internal insights" are based on much more than just an experience with Cakewalk. I know what's involved in dealing with software issues and it's a) never pretty, b) never happens fast enough, and c) will not guarantee a fix for future issues.
 
Based on this experience with computers, I know with 100% certainty that like cars, washing machines, HVAC systems, Southwest Airlines web sites, Netflix, the latest iOS update, and so much more, software and hardware will break down. When that happens - and I know it always will - I don't blame the companies because I know it will do no good. They will try to fix something as fast as they can because their business depends on it even more than mine does. Instead, I invoke one of the many contingency plans I have to deal with that eventuality. I have no choice, and unfortunately, I don't think anyone else does, either. If there's an alternative, believe me...I want to hear about it!
 
 

dlesaux
I tried running Sonar in compatibility mode as suggested but it made no difference whatsoever. I also tried running the process monitor and this also made no difference.

That's not too surprising given that the issues you've decribed don't match the symptoms and conditions at which those solutions are aimed. I think it's pretty clear the problems you're experiencing are unrelated to this thread-initialization issue, and you need to start looking for other possible causes.

Hey we got an update. Thank You. Finally Cakewalk have relented on the silence strategy.
 
All we wanted Craig. 

hmmm...Thinking in liken forecasting...Mind over matters...Craig said: ""Based on this experience with computers, I know with 100% certainty that like cars, washing machines, HVAC systems, Southwest Airlines web sites, Netflix, the latest iOS update, and so much more, software and hardware will break down. When that happens - and I know it always will - I don't blame the companies because I know it will do no good. ""...seeking solutions to what should work as stipulated, that then needs fixing???...is to ask why?...or what causes?
 
Now projecting this seed of mayhem, into the mind, is not a good ideal to accept it, if sold to break...if it be a detrimental outlook ,or causes problematics in the codex...or the codex is coded for problems...And no one likes problems?...Well when dependent on X...and X is said to work with OS Y...and some added in spy and die ware...Surely the unseen uglies will arise in the mix?....
 
 
So...As I said in one of my posts...I like Cake walk...and Sonar...and the clan of Good will..Cake walk should make their own OS.....I think, if so coding, and knowing how to code...Some one makes a OS for video audio...and turns off all the junk coding hiding that crap they stick in to spy on, and collect data, trends, and tracking marketing info...to send to the corp capitalists, to undermine market shares, or employ insider trade, or employment to capitalize off of that insider info, to put bugs in or cause bugs, or leave bugs unaddressed until exposed...is just lazy work done...sold too fast, or sold to cause issues....and then sell a technical support plan?...capitalizing off of both ends of the spectrum....What greed?...lol.
 
Surely moving and changing things, so as to hide, and smooth out the glitches...is underway to embed something.
 
Not sure why the news keeps tooting spying by Russia...and such, saying they know it came from ...Then who is spying to gain that intel of them doing what, and putting spins over?
 
Perhaps the INTEL...is part of the short end of problem causing world unrest, in oh so many ways?...and..it is reflected in the machine?..and in life, if we cannot make true code, then what is of us , or them...LIARS?..just saying...Proof is in the pudding....Is it mind over matter, or matter over mind?
 
 
Should we blame ourselves for trusting in tech?..or those whom put things into the tech ,or over it (cost) to keep it costing more to fix, what is, now long in trying to make a method of truths and prospering in terms of doing or making something of merits and good will?...or is it both hand in hand, fuelling this problematic detrimental cause and effect of Murphy...continually to reap off of, the unsuspecting masses, trying to say, you can do this with this...and end up with clicks pops and crackles, crashes, and way less hair..and some wasted dosh on gear attached, and time getting older fixing it, or trying to..(stressing not only the owner, but the clients whom come in, to get things done ,of their recorded works in a studio or home environment, or live performance)...
 
Then utter to another nation...they used hacking to sway voters...and or consequences will be imposed on, those whom enacted the hacking/spying...Yet, as saying in the news from the leaders of certain weapon holding powers /and machines with spying ears and eyes put into,...that should not be using such weapons in testing or to instill fear over, to subdue, or bully...(say they will do something, and saying they have proof of it coming from a place or origin )...Then USA secret service spies, are in the Kremlin also gathering INTEL?...surely in the codex seeking info getting business...Something is amiss, and others pointing fingers saying we have proof it was them...also spy to get that info, or plant it, into the minds of the masses, to make reasons for...more problems and stress and fear mongering...pointing fingers at, to make wars become....What Craig said, we should not blame?...whom is sacrificed in those terms or what he said she said it said?
 
I know it is just a music forum...But the underlining is in play over...such machines...doing things...Perhaps it is not so a toy...perhaps it is not so a good a thing being put into..or used for....so it should be curtailed by ...reason!
 
And if so knowing as some of us do..."Computers can help solve math computational problems, and or help save information recorded to it, and retrieve it quickly"...but, with the conception of mass use, and info being shared of many...a law or principle applies...Save , save, save....
unfortunately, if saving info of importance on...and that machine goes down...what will retrieve the info?...and if the os is sending out data or info from systems unaware of the user, or is made known it is doing so, causing issues, or is constantly becoming updated, to break it down, so they can put a cost on tech support..MS does do!...Then spying is a militant act of theft of personnel information, and sabotage!.....CRIME is to sell something to some one saying it does work, and then break it to sell the fixing of......SURELY IS a SCAM?.
 
So when do we stop saying things as Craig said in my Quote of his?...and start demanding more stability in the box/products, and safe of military acts or spy or lie put in or over?...and no military or spy or malware in the codex, is it possible to trust our own kind?
 
Perhaps a evolution in Human spirit needs be imposed onto ..."KIND"....and what of trust or truth?
 
 
Just saying , somethings should not be said, are always going to be a certain way...If it can be changed...and should be...could be....Then, what stops us from doing?....surely those saying it cannot be changed...when it can be!...belief is powerful!
 
tape decks...a good back up??,... that has no ties to spies over un-secure connections...might be a back step in method...To keep in house something multi track capable, to capture the performing artist...Just to be sure the day is not lost to ....what Craig believes ...we have to suffer, when you could keep on rocking!.
 
May the Lord Bless you all, to find new paths to Truth, Trust, and Good Will, to smoke out the bad...and put in the Good, over all...YAH A WAY...is Always at hand, in mind, and of good spirit!
 
What A glory Humans are...and nothing is more so good, or can be to replace, when good for the whole is put forth in acts...no machine is able...to out perform what is made Good or better in mind over matters to solve for....remains, or comes to reason to do,...good onto all...gains it reflected back....Principle rule of life...lessons learnt, or burnt into the base code matrix!...do good with the good given...and in doing...you gain some good back...is yin yang old method shared...care for the whole with good intent put in of positive energy...put into to make it good or better to better the whole...Not the self...and in that...is it not made for all to share in that good estate?....I see some here, some there...But I will not accept it is like this because we cannot point to the ones making it so......We have to point to better ways if so being as it is!...or find the root cause, and resolve the err.
 
Cheers!
 
 
 
 
 
 

I bailed after the first paragraph.

wow has it come to this
just restart sonar
im not paying to restart everytime some problem arises

Anderton

eltonechris
Hey we got an update. Thank You. Finally Cakewalk have relented on the silence strategy.
 
All we wanted Craig. 

And with respect, I think it's time for you to relent on claiming there was a silence strategy where there are posts, with dates, that show there never was. See post #49 of you don't believe me, or don't believe the links in post #15.

 
to be fair, there hasn't been a proper explanation yet of what the issue actually is/was, and the workarounds came from users rather than cake... it's not like there was an ongoing open discussion...
 
ho hum
 

jb101

eltonechris
Hey we got an update. Thank You. Finally Cakewalk have relented on the silence strategy.
 
All we wanted Craig. 

I really don't understand this type of post.

Cakewalk responded immediately the issue arose.

They then updated us that they could reproduce and were looking into it.

Then they told us that they had identified the source, and were working on it.

They came back to offer several workarounds in the meantime.

They even updated us that they were waiting to hear back from ms, with whom they were in contact.

All this on a peer to peer forum between thanksgiving and Christmas.

What more do people expect them to do? Invite them in for dev meetings in Boston?

A bit more beta testing would be a good place to start.

abacab

microapp
A bit more beta testing would be a good place to start.

I cannot follow the logic here.  This was new Microsoft code, that exposed a dormant code issue in some of Cakewalk's code.  In what universe could more beta testing have identified that???

Users found it right? What makes you think beta testers would not ?
Since we have no clue how many beta testers there are or how many Sonar users are affected, it is hard to make a rational analysis in this case. I don't think that negates the statement that more testing would be beneficial.
There are issues besides the thread init thing that exist (in 2016.12 and prior releases) which suggest there is very little beta testing if any performed or the test program is inadequate.
So the answer is ...this universe.