voclizr


Thanks Randy!
Listened to "Honey Pie".  Proof that JABB is a wonderful program.  Just takes a bit of work.  You did a great job with that.

JB

Thanks much for that, JB.  And a little earlier I listened to your nice track that features JABB - Thanks for the link! - I'll be writing a PM to you.

Randy B.

Randy, here is your Honey Pie in two editions (one is minus 2 dB to get closer to your wave amplitude, both are 48KHz, 16 bit, 29.7 Mb, processed in Sonar Home Studio 7XL): 

[deleted by AlexiIsrael because of concerns by R bowser ]

minus 2 dB

[deleted by AlexiIsrael, reason: concerns by Rbowser]


It's not a impulse file, its a bit of architectural acoustics and basic math/physics calculations. I wish I have ones' authentic recording at Abbey Road Studio 1 to hear  ( http://www.abbeyroad.com/studios/studio1/ ), but I anyway love my sound))) I should write a scholar article about it soon.

My records are available at these links: 

mp3s, I suggest to go from the bottom of the list, where the latest songs are
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0ByGGk5USZEmVNDI4ZjZkOWMtNDRkNi00Yzc4LTkxMjUtYjliOGRlZjBmNjNj&hl=en

wavs, 48 Khz, 16 bit
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0ByGGk5USZEmVYTljZmQ1OTYtNmMzYS00YTY3LThiMjQtMTUyYmViZWZmZThl&hl=en

The list (especially the one with mp3s) coveres one year of my recording practice, starting with Music Creator in late September 2009, and then (since 03/2010) Home Studio XL. My preSonar half a year of recording experience (March 1, 2009 start date))) is not on this list. Having Sonar producer from Oct 1, 2010 I still enjoy Music Creator and Home Studio, and in fact record my vocal on very old computer with Music Creator, it stays in the other room, so, I do not capture otherwise would-be-turboreactive-like noise of PC fans, this old computer does not handle VST, as I prepare vocal mix as a WAV file on a major computer.

Here are direct links to few latest songs mp3, file names have date stamp to chronicle the progress:

On melody of Yes It is by The Beatles:
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0ByGGk5USZEmVZTM5YWI0ZjQtNmU2Mi00ODNlLWIyOWItMGQxM2I3MTMwODM2&sort=name&layout=list&pid=0ByGGk5USZEmVNDI4ZjZkOWMtNDRkNi00Yzc4LTkxMjUtYjliOGRlZjBmNjNj&cindex=42

On melody of Real Love, The Beatles Anthology:
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0ByGGk5USZEmVZjg1YzgwMWQtZmI4Ni00ZWRiLTk1ODktY2IxNWU1NjMyZjg5&sort=name&layout=list&pid=0ByGGk5USZEmVNDI4ZjZkOWMtNDRkNi00Yzc4LTkxMjUtYjliOGRlZjBmNjNj&cindex=43

On melody of Grown old with you, a non-recorded song by John Lennon. This is my first Sonar Producer project
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0ByGGk5USZEmVOWZkZjc4ZTUtZjUxZi00ZjIwLTgwZGItZjdhZDRlNzNmYzJi&sort=name&layout=list&pid=0ByGGk5USZEmVNDI4ZjZkOWMtNDRkNi00Yzc4LTkxMjUtYjliOGRlZjBmNjNj&cindex=46

It is also available as a surround 5.1 sound in a number of formats, see subfolders here:
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0ByGGk5USZEmVMjVkMmUzZTQtZmMyNi00OTk3LThlOTAtNTU0M2E3ZWM3NTM0&hl=en
(This is simple surround, it just fully represents Abbey Road modeling that Stereo can not deliver, I like most 6 channel WAVE, I am not fully calibrated for Dolby Digital production, the file is available, however, I wonder whether Sonar X1 will have ac3 export, the only feature I might find helpful for me in new Sonar)))

On melody of Lady Jane, by Rolling Stones, not finalized edition and no surround yet (I also liked not doubled vocal: it sound more intimate, but requires different instrumentation)

https://docs.google.com/l...ZDE4NDMwNjRj&hl=en


*****

By the way I enjoy using Drums and Strings of Studio Instruments (and did not move yet to Drums of Sonar Producer, I am not sure I will, although I use occasionally Dimension LE/Pro strings))) and guitars through the Interface of Cakewalk Sound Center of Music Creator 5. The only Piano I used thus far is free Sound Font of Kawai Grand Piano, available at DSF web site, played with SFZ+. I do not equalize instruments, I prefer to find a better match with similar instrument. My latest vocals (after I added tube preamp from Behringer on both channels of a pair of condenser mics) are not equalized either, the only processing, besides "Abbey Road" is Boost11. I am sure JABB will work for me. I was about to use its' Steinway Piano in one song-in-prep: I like its sound, but it would require equalization to remove some bass, so, I keep it out of project for a while, but will rehear it as the project is developing.


P.S. Should you need any help with Russian(s), please let me know, Randy

Randy, tell me whether I can keep links/files available here for a day or so, so, readers of this thread could listen in case of an interest?  Otherwise I will delete them immediately [deleted].

I actually at some point (rehearsing your original and modified wave by wave many times) realized that this modification is also on the topic of this thread: there are so many variations to JABB sound delivery, so, one should study it thoroughly before claiming it is a waste. 

I therefore especially appreciate your input. Surely, I wont reuse your song and will delete re-do (and the link here) in 2 days [deleted]. But mp3 is available for download at the link you provided here, so, I prefered to listen it while seeing the wave. I then realised I wish more space and tried to process it, although I later noted you mentioned a "small club" definition for your sound.

As for reverb, perhaps I like contrasting vocal intimacy with a bit distant instrumental sound by bypassing some vocal signal this type of processing

By the way, I think that Google docs offer major control over ones files. I play my music at Google files through cakewalk player at a number of web sites, and offer download option for many formats, including mobile music and aac for itunes

Just for the record, I'm pullin' out of this thread now.  It's run its course (for me) I think.

Randy,
 
Just a heads up - your PM inbox is full.
 
 

Randy, thanks for comments and suggestions. 

I do not (in return) question whether your use of the Honeypie by Lennon/McCartney is the break of the Copyright, and how creative your arrangement is to justify Fair Use of the Copyright Law provision.  I do not care of others, it is your business, Randy, what I care about (and use Sonar for) is to release my love message to the Universe, not a particular human being. I am confident I add to the legacy of the romantic pop classics of the past, as I bring it to 1/6 of Earth, that is Russia, in its' native language.

But I do not translate songs, and actually I am not writing my songs, my soul is singing (or feelings are released) on different melodies of other cultures, I just rush to put my lyrics on paper or dictate it in case I am on sport. There is no project (or budget) ahead and there is no plan for songs. For an exmaple see this song on melody by Pink Floyd Wish you were here, I heard the melody one day, so, next moment I took pencil and told to my passed parents what I had to tell to them on that particular moment, here is the record:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vi8MLwuzHU

I therefore will not allow anyone to question my right to deliver my private love message to just few of Planet Earth through my authentic original lyrics, and will employ all legal means to defend this right if necessary. I do not sell my music, as you likely do, although Fair Use provision of the Copyright law (and a numver of court cases) allows it.

Detailed response on your deceptive statement on my breaking of the Copyright Law is available here: 
http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/22643 

All the best to you and your music. Be carefull doing business in/with Klondike Russia.


Sincerely,

Alexei

P.S. To close this discussion and to be fair: Randy, you welcomed my experiment, as your early post expresses (see quote below). Therefore, your projections on my future unauthorised use of the records by others has no grounds. My welcomed by you re-do of your re-do of Honeypie by The beatles was purely educational and solely aimed to significantly contribute to the subject of this thread, that is JABB and other VST instrumentation within Cakewalk digital music recording workstations: 
 
Quoting Randy Bowser Cakewalk Forum post #93, http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2119653

"And that's an interesting experiment, to add an Abbey Road impulse file to my recording - But of course you only have the MP3, and there's reverb on the recording already.  I used a small jazz room IR for it, and it came out sounding the way I wanted.  But if you experiment, notice that the opening "old record" part should have no more reverb on it, since it's as if being played on an old Gramaphone."

You can get it as a boxed version, but who would want to part with another $50.00 unnecessarily.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/JazzBB3

Really funny thing.  I put "Yes You Are" up for review on another forum I'm a member of and they loved the piano, but hated the horns!  Don't that beat all?!

Guess it's just like "Dirty" Harry Callahan once said-"Opinions are like a**holes.  Everybody has one." 

I really don't want to make any enemies here, but once again, you guys seem to want the quality of a Martin guitar out of a Sears Silvertone, or the quality of a Mercedes out of a Volkswagon!  Again I ask, what do you want for a program in the $100.00 to $150.00 price range ?  If you really want better, SPEND MORE MONEY! 

Or, as the old saying goes "Compare apples to apples".   

Peace!

John B.

Don't mean to keep kicking this back up.  I did another project with JABB.  You might not agree with me,    but I think the program did pretty well with this one.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=1058168&songID=9860790

I don't mean to be a pain, but I really like the program and don't like to see it smeared so much.

I'll go away now!

JB

Thats a nice piece, JB!  Sound-wise, nothing sounded VERY good to me, but most of it was pretty serviceable.   The exception is the high trumpet ensemble near the end, sorry to say but that really grates on my ears.  BUT... I think you've done an OUTSTANDING job with the tools you have, and it's absolutely credit to your compositional and arrangement skills.  It shows that JABB can sound pretty useful most of the time, and for the money it is a good deal.

voclizr


Thanks.  I agree not the BEST sound, but, as you say, enough to get the job done. As far as the end sound, I'm still tweaking the mix.  I think it's more an EQ issue there.
I offer my tunes here as an example of what this program can do.  Looking around these forums, it's surprising that I can't seem to find many works done with JABB. The only piece other than my own is Randy's "Honeypie".  If you know of anymore please link me.
Thanks

JB

Hi, JB - I've had a listen to your "Top Hat" now, and have extremely important, even URGENT info for you. 

It's a nice recording, but you have two extremely critical things missing in your use of JABB which are robbing the sounds of their realism.  I know from experience it's from incomplete use of JABB which confuses a lot of people into thinking there's something wrong with the library - There's nothing wrong with it.  But too often we hear an incomplete execution of its samples.

The two missing ingredients:

--You haven't used any vibrato!
--You haven't used any, or very little volume control.

Without those two things - the samples will stick out like unnatural honks.

Using the prominent Sax in your track as an example.

--All of the sustained notes need to have vibrato coming in, and at different speeds.  Vibrato is controlled by AFTERTOUCH - If your keyboard doesn't have that, like mine doesn't, that's no problem.  In the Piano Roll View of Sonar, in the menu where you add more controller lanes, use the far left menu in the pop-up and ask for ChanAft--That's Channel Aftertouch.  GRID OFF - that's mandatory--turn the grid off.  Now, while holding CTRL down, you can draw in sweeping hills of Aftertouch data on the sustained notes.  Let a note start without vibrato, then sweep it in, the way live musicians do it.

--Add CC17 in varying amounts - that controls the speed of the vibrato.

Without using vibrato, you'll have these long unwavering, sustained hoooooooonks which sound nothing like a real instrument.

JUST AS IMPORTANT - you need to use liberal, and I mean EXtremely liberal amounts of cc1 for volume control.  don't use CC7 - that's to set the relative volume of an instrument in the mixer.  CC1 in JABB controls the timbre as well as volume.  You are best off recording that live, Playing your instruments.  It should be almost constant, and especially variable on sustained notes.  Listen to recordings of a real sax - sustained notes change in volume drastically over time.  If you somehow have a keyboard without a mod wheel, then CC1 can of course also be drawn in, using PRV.  MUCH better to record it though - you'll find yourself making much more complex data streams that way.

You're still mixing the song - You Must go back to the MIDI files and add these controllers.  You'll be amazed at the difference.  What I've described is what will make those instruments sing.

AND look for the PDF manual for JABB.  Unfortunately it doesn't automatically install, but it's part of the download. It may be tucked away unnoticed in a Garritan folder - look in your Program Files for it, or do the download again, making sure you get the manual.

Randy B.

Hi, JB - Well, I'm glad to be of assistance.  And when you said:

"...I was too anxious to get down to making music..."

--you need to know that what you say describes the state of practically 100% of us.  We all like to dive in and figure out things for ourselves, but then we sometimes run up against things that we need a manual for.

You don't use Sonar! -- OK, well that's the surprise element here.  I assumed you use Sonar since you're here on the Sonar Forum.  I have no idea how Samplitude works, but as long as you can get to a screen where you can deep edit your MIDI CC data, then fine, because that's where the essence of MIDI success lies - making the most out of the CC controllers available for a given piece of software.

I'm glad you took my post to heart, and didn't feel unfairly criticized.  You have a great start on this project of yours - and I'm excited to picture how happy you'll be when you hear those instruments sounding way over 100% better once you've applied the crucial vibrato and volume control that I've outlined for you.

This thread started on a very contentious note.  There was a warning posted - "buyer beware"- followed by a lot of very negatively stated opinion.  That's why it's not at all accurate to say "...no one is trying to smear anything.  We're simply offering up our own opinions..." Bull pucky. - Those qualifying things were added to this thread in an attempt to smooth over the original nasty premise. 

Opinions don't ever need to be stated in such negative terms as they were in the original post.  When we offer our opinions it should be a dispassionate matter of saying "Here's what I think - Here's what I prefer" etc.  But since the whole reason for this thread's existence has been to be especially nasty and destructive, I'm glad to have the opportunity to give a little corrective advice on the matter.

Randy B.

I am also just starting a project with JABB.  The Sax's sound better and more appropriate for my Jazz type piece than anything I have from EW.  Goliath has some "pop brass" instruments but IMO, they are not so great and I have been getting better results with my JABB sax. 

I have to thank Randy for helping me out with some tips and tricks with the JABB instruments
-Mike

Hi, Billy - I should probably just let this thread go, as I did earlier - But since I don't like being publicly misrepresented, I have to add another post. - I don't take offense when someone has a different opinion about JABB or anything else under the sun.  And I don't ever simply dismiss other people's opinions.  All of that stuff in your new post is totally incorrect about me, and I resent it.

You are attempting to whitewash what you said in your original post of this thread - the one you even apologized for when you said "rant mode off - sorry."  - As I said in my last post, the world thrives on everyone having their opinions and expressing them.  But when someone goes over the top and rants and bullies, they're no longer just expressing their opinion.  In your thread starting post, you said:

"...The brass sound like toys, the winds are terrible, the rhythm sections sounds like they came from Radio Shack.

I'm sure there will be those who like these, but I'm feeling bad about spending the money on this package.    Buyer beware.

It just shows that you can't even trust a 'name' brand anymore.  Sigh..."

You're telling people to watch out, "buyer beware."  Why are we supposed beware?--because you have a negative opinion?  You tell people they can't trust a name brand anymore - and why are we supposed to believe that?  Because it's your opinion? - Those things weren't written as opinions.  You wrote them like someone on a mission to do damage to the Garritan business.  And you can see the reaction you've gotten throughout this thread, where your post was even interpreted as a "smear campaign."  All that negative backlash is so easy to avoid when opinions are simply offered without all the heat.  "In my opinion, blah dee blah dee blah."

That's all.  You're a swell guy, Billy.  I have no problem with you or anyone having a different opinion from me on any topic.  I just wanted to make a few more things clear in this reply - maybe I have--That you completely misrepresented me in your last post, and you really would help yourself out if your first ranting post on this thread had a bit of editing done to it so it would read like intelligently stated opinion rather than scare tactic bullying.

That's all.

Onwards.

Randy B.

And /ME shakes your hand, Billy, because without hesitation I can say I consider you one of the good guys here too.  Sonar pals unite!

Without rehashing anything, I agree with your sentiment that this thread, or at least this tangent has run its course.

OH - I forgot, I do want to listen to Brundlefly's MP3.  And Mike, I'm glad my tips are helping you out.

Randy