Low wattage, tube based *power* amp?

yeah, you wear out an older speaker, and it's gonna get smooth around the edges.

but my v30 is harsh.
both in the demeter, and in a closed back 1x12 cab.


my point stands:
a brand new v30, sounds harsh.

a better choice, if you're liking celestions, would be a heritage g12.

ORIGINAL: mike_mccue

Don't worry... we're talking about tone.... there is no tone worse than the sound of an under stimulated speaker. :-)

Sure there is! How about the tone of stepping on the cord and pulling it from the input jack -bzzzzz! That's gotta be the worst tone ever!

But in all seriousness, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with the point you made due to factors I believe are more important.

What could be worse is:

1.) A weak sounding instrument and or player
2.) A bad sounding amplifier
3.) nowhere near pushing the power tubes.

While I also believe speaker breakup is important contributor tonally, in my opinion it would be last on that list, and I certainly wouldn't describe it as being "no tone worse than" if not particularly not present.

OK, I agree with 1 & 2, but I think 3 falls after having access to a great loudspeaker.

You don't have to have power tubes screaming and output transformers in saturation to have a great sounding tube amp.

In fact, I don't think many people with a modern 50 - 100 watt tube amp are anywhere near getting either the tubes or the trannys near their edge, and plenty of people get a good tone from them... they just do it all in the preamp.

On the other hand, I have several Champs, a Deluxe Reverb, and a Vibrolux Reverb sitting here so I have the experience of simply swapping them and playing at similar SPL to listen to the sound of tubes pushed to different extremes as well as the sound of a saturated transformer.

For example; Switching from the Deluxe to the Vibrolux is essentially an experience of finding great tone with or without the sound of pushed power tubes.

The Vibrolux is much cleaner... but still absolutely "musical".

Most people do not realize how loud a Champ can go... throw a compressor and a tube screamer in front of it and it will scream with the sound of pushed tubes and a FULLY saturated transformer. It's a very distinct, hard to emulate tone, but that sound is not for everyone.

In any case I'd value a well matched speaker for the amps before arbitrarily considering that the tubes HAVE to be pushed to get great tone.

Does that make sense?

best regards,
mike

Hey Batsbrew,

It's easy to tell from the good advice you've given to others here you have been through the ahh...experimentation stage. Nice gear too btw!

Man, I could get into a good discussion about a few various things with you that I'm sure we'd both enjoy, but that'd really be going way OT for a thread like this.

But on a short note, I don't prefer the V30 either. I don't find them particularly harsh, rather for me I find them somewhat lacking something in the upper mids.

Also nice tip about using the palmer between the attenuator. Now that's something I wasn't aware of. Although still a bit skeptical, you got me curious about that one. But then again I've got more than a few possibilities for recording options just as you do so I really wonder if I need another -lol!. But it does sound interesting nonetheless.

Well, with the complications of finding a power amp that I feel comfy with and for a reasonable price, I'm no wkind of leaning towards the Emery Microbaby:

http://www.emerysound.com/Microbaby.html

It's a 1/2 watter, very simple and direct, and they also sell a 'mad scientist' tube kit with a whole bunch of tubes that are known to work well with it, so you can play around with all kinds of sounds. The cab is a Weber blue pup. I've heard some clips and it sounds awefully nice (the ones on the Emery site aren't done very well.)

Here's a Youtube video (yeh, audio quality is an issue with them) where he just takes it through a number of variations of guitars with different types of pickups, gutar volume levels, and tone and volume levels on the amp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3mq3dCSedQ

From what everyone says it's very reasonable volume easily crankable in the apartment. It seems to have plenty of gain with higher output pickups, but a simple boost pedal would probably get it into serious overdrive levels I'd imagine.

So about $1400 for the amp (no enclosure) and cab, and a couple hundred for an SM57 and e609. That wouldn't be a bad deal at all, and I'm sure Mike will approve much more :-)

I'm not only approving... I'm drooling.

BTW, today I came across a used blackface Bandmaster rig that is fairly priced. It appears to have 2 JBL K120s in the cabinet... I'm soul searching trying to decide just how much I want to take those two speaker out of that rig :-). I'm thinking I could buy it... get the speakers and move the package to someone with less specific interests in speakers.

Also I stopped by an old firends house to take him an Ampeg VT22 carcus that he is going to rebuild as as mini SVT and got to drive his new/used Mesa Boogie bass amp... that was fun... we played thru a McCauley. Yikes.

decisions, decisions.

best regards,
mike

I'm off refreshing my memory of the JBL line.

Here's a fun link that explains one small aspect of why choosing a "great" speaker is an imporatnt part of the tone equation:

http://online.physics.uiuc.edu/courses/phys199pom/Student_Reports/Fall04/Brian_Lunardini/Brian_Lunardini_P199POM_Fall04_Final_Report.pdf

So, it looks like the Emery head, without enclosure which I don't need, plus then going to Weber for the raw speaker cabinet and the same Blue Dog speaker, will be $695 plus shipping, and $405'ish plus shipping, respectively. So altogether probably about $1200 with taxes and shipping, so that saves a good bit over getting the fancy wooden enclosure from Emery. Throw in an SM57 and e609, for probably a total of around $1450'ish with taxes and shipping. So basically the plainer cabinet covers the cost of the mics.

The Blue Dog Alnico (which is what Emery sells in their cabinets) only comes in a 15 watt minimum version, with 30, 50, 75, and 100wt versions. I'm not sure which one Emery sells, ro which would be optimal. Weber says the lower the wattage capacity the more aggressive and bright it is. Though some folks say that the Emery is a bit on the dark side, so maybe a 30 would be a good compromise? I dunno. I'll have to ask the Emery guy if I move forward on this.

The Blue dog gets great reviews by folks I'd be eager to learn from... I've never heard one first hand.

Have fun with your new rig! :-)

best regards,
mike

glad you checked out the emery-
i tell everyone i know, to at least look at them, because they're well made, and are a bit unique, in that they can take all those tube sets.

pretty much tho, all you can do with that amp, is let the individual character of each guitar shine thru, with little to no influence on the sound from the amp..
other than gain characteristic.

some people like to be able to go to an amp, and really tweak EVERYTHING.

the superbaby goes the opposite direction.....
it tries to give back, only what is put in.

which is a 'purist' way of doing it.



i've used the blue dog, it's an excellent speaker,

i happen to like the celestion heritage G12H better.
YMMV

do you think he'd sell me a 6G6 for my baby?:

I call this the "half bake"






Dean, I wonder if you are aware that you can put all those tubes in a silverface Fender Champ?

I love the Emery and think that's a great choice... just want to make sure you don't think the Champ is somehow a lesser amp.

The main thing with all these amps is that you are free to shape the tone with pedals. I think in terms of the 5 major overdrive/distortion circuit categories and mix and match my pedals to get a wide variety of tones.

I can't wait to find out how much fun you are having with the Emery!

best regards,
mike

If I was confident I could find a Silverface Champ in good shape from a reputable person, I'd certainly entertain the notion. But I'm limited in the time I can put into the search, and I can't afford to buy one on e-bay and have it be a fake or dud. It would certainly save a lot of money if I could find one.

I agree 100%. I can not stomach the idea of being lied too on ebay.

I think you'll really love the Emery! Plus you'll be doing first hand service towards supporting a domestic economy. It's a win, win, win situation.

best regards,
mike

Which would you like? From my favorite local store:

A '53 Princeton?
http://www.williesguitars.com/index.cfm?sector=user&page=detail&prodID=2890
A '54 Princeton?
http://www.williesguitars.com/index.cfm?sector=user&page=detail&prodID=2889
Maybe a '56 Champ?
http://www.williesguitars.com/index.cfm?sector=user&page=detail&prodID=2840
A bunch of '60s Princetons?
http://www.williesguitars.com/index.cfm?sector=user&page=detail&prodID=2885
Maybe some Silverface Vibro-Champs?
http://www.williesguitars.com/index.cfm?sector=user&page=detail&prodID=2891
Or, maybe a Rivera-era Super Champ?
http://www.williesguitars.com/index.cfm?sector=user&page=detail&prodID=3129

All for less than you're talking about...

ew

I want all of them :-)

You too, Mike?

I tend to stay away from Willie's; it's hard for me to go in there without dropping lots of cash.

ew

Which would you like? From my favorite local store:

I guess I could do some searching to see if any local places have any to look at.

ORIGINAL: ew
You too, Mike?

I tend to stay away from Willie's; it's hard for me to go in there without dropping lots of cash.

ew

A friend of mine just sent me an email with the following headline:

DO NOT GO TO WILLIE'S TO BUY STRINGS FOR YOUR BASS!

Followed by the story of buying another Ibanez Artisan bass. Wait... did I say ANOTHER? Why, yes, I did. He'd just gotten one on eBay, but it wasn't in nearly as good shape as he'd hoped. Went to Willie's to get new strings for it, and guess what's hangin' on the wall?

Now he has two. Go figure.

I only go in Willie's with my wife. If SHE thinks something's a good deal, I can bring it home. Doesn't happen too often! LOL

Mike: Did you build that Half-Baked amp yourself?

Corey

Hi Corey,

I feel so lucky... when I take my wife to the nice music stores she always encourages me to feed the beast. I usually let her fend off the sales clerks with questions like... "Is that really a '72 Les Paul? It looks like a 73 to me." I'm then left to browse at my leisure. :-) :-)

yes that's a home built I DIY'd... I made it before it became easy to find a suitable chassis... so I used an old radio hobby idea... the Cake pan.

Here's an example of how I use it... note that the ampeg cab is just a holder... this setup has nothing to do with a cool ampeg. The amp from that unit is now a custom made mini SVT my friend Buster and I made:



The speakers are late 50's Rolas I found in an old organ... they are the creamy ones I described in an earlier post in this thread. I would venture to say that you have to hear it first hand in real life to realize how unique those speakers sound when driven by this amp. It's like swimming in butter fat.

That's one thing I think a lot of modern life people don't have the luxury of... some of the most fantastic and visceral guitar tones can not be printed to a recording... getting to experience them first hand is a true luxury that I savor and appreciate. That's why I live out in the country.


best regards,
mike

ORIGINAL: mike_mccue
Hi Corey,

I feel so lucky... when I take my wife to the nice music stores she always encourages me to feed the beast. I usually let her fend off the sales clerks with questions like... "Is that really a '72 Les Paul? It looks like a 73 to me." I'm then left to browse at my leisure. :-) :-)

Well, my wife bought me a 5-string bass for my 40th birthday a couple of months ago, so it's pretty rare she actively STOPS me from buying anything... she just makes sure it's a good deal. At Willie's, EVERYTHING'S a good deal to me - she adds the dose of reality so I don't just pull up a U-Haul to the front door!

yes that's a home built I DIY'd... I made it before it became easy to find a suitable chassis... so I used an old radio hobby idea... the Cake pan.

So, would you be at all interested in making another one, or selling the schematics? I picked up one of the Epiphones, and it sounds great when I plug it into my Polytone 12" extension cab, but I'd kind of like to have something truly point-to-point wired.

Corey

Hi Corey,
I am sorta interested in building some more... I've had the parts laying around for a few years... but honestly I've been too busy to get back to it... so I don't think you should wait on me. :-)

I'd be happy to send you info but that amp is just a clone of a late fifties Fender Champ. The schematic and layout is a Champ. I'd reccomend you look at the many Champ kits that are available these days and then decide if you want to buy a kit or just get the parts and do it all yourself.

I think everyone should try to assemble a small tube amp. I can't begin to describe the thrill I felt the first time I played one of mine. The sound came out and I wet my pants. Everyone should have that thrill.

Go for it!

best regards,
mike

ORIGINAL: lazarous

At Willie's, EVERYTHING'S a good deal to me - she adds the dose of reality so I don't just pull up a U-Haul to the front door!

I resemble that remark...

ew

ORIGINAL: mike_mccue
I think everyone should try to assemble a small tube amp. I can't begin to describe the thrill I felt the first time I played one of mine. The sound came out and I wet my pants. Everyone should have that thrill.

It's on the list of things to do! Course, it's a very long list, and is prioritized somewhere after the "Gee, I should probably get a Strat in here too" - which is exceedingly low priority since I'm a BASS player! LOL

Thanks, Mike!

Corey

Well, I'm now down to the last obstacle in this course... I just checked and I'm flat broke, like in I have money at all in the bank once I pay a couple bills. Once I get that straightned out, then I'll get the Emery.

Not to mention the satisfaction of making it yourself, and the cool conversational piece that it is, I think that "half bake" is pretty sweet! Two thumbs up.

Someday (and hopefully soon) I'd like to build some kind of small amp like that.

So I was looking more at the Weber site. They also sell amp kits. Their 5F1 is effectively a 50s Fender Champ. It's a very simple and pure circuit, and even I could put that one together. I assume it's almost exactly the same circuit as the Half-bake above. It's only $415 with cabinet and speaker and all the parts needed. And they even have a 10% off sale in November, so that would knock it down to more like $380 before shipping. Or you could use the difference to move up from the basic speaker that kit has to the next step up, which would put it back about at the original price and probably worth it.

So you could do a high quality, really classic, low wattage (5 in this case), combo amp with 10" speaker, for a really reasonable price if you are willing to do the work to put it together yourself.

Hmmm... Even better I think:

Ceriatone Pre-built 5F1 Amp chassis without tubes - $250
Tubes -
12AX7 Sovtek $14
6V6 Sovtek $15
5Y3 Sovtek $15
Weber 1x12 Cabinet - $215
10A100 Weber speaker (designed for this amp type) - $90

So a separate head and cabinet Tweed Champ clone, with good components, and a speaker specially designed for Tweed Champ type amps, all for $600. I'd just not put the amp chassis in anthing and just use it raw to save bucks. That's a pretty dang good deal, and I bet it would sound quite nice. That's less than just the Emery head by itself. The Emery obviously does have a few extra amenities, but a couple inexpensive pedals would make this configuration plenty flexible. A simple booster for more overdrive to start would be cheap.

I've heard really good things about the Ceriatones myself- that'd be a great option for you, Dean.

ew

Instead of ruining a potentially classic amp like a champ with some Frankenstein-like modifications. You'd be much better off using a high quality amp-sim equipment (line-6, Korg, etc.) It's more flexible, cheaper, more portable, more reliable, and less chance of electrocuting yourself. Also you won't look like some half-assed dork with a rig that looks like it came out of a flea market.

Well, because there are no modifications to a classic amp being done, it's just a new amp based on the same circuit at the Tweed Champ, and because the whole point is to get a real amp based system. And it'll sound enormously better than a Line6. I owned a POD Pro, so I know what it sounds like. I can do that well or better with my current Amplitube2 based setup, with a lot more flexibility. And I don't really give a crap what it looks like. It's for my studio only. I'll be the only one who ever sees it. All that matters is the music that gets made, since that's all that anyone but me will ever know about.

might i suggest an Avatar cab?

The G110: available with the 16 ohm Celestion G10 Vintage. $189. plus $29. shipping.



http://www.avatarspeakers.com/

ORIGINAL: pistolpete

Instead of ruining a potentially classic amp like a champ with some Frankenstein-like modifications. You'd be much better off using a high quality amp-sim equipment (line-6, Korg, etc.) It's more flexible, cheaper, more portable, more reliable, and less chance of electrocuting yourself. Also you won't look like some half-assed dork with a rig that looks like it came out of a flea market.

:-)

ORIGINAL: mike_mccue

ORIGINAL: pistolpete

Instead of ruining a potentially classic amp like a champ with some Frankenstein-like modifications. You'd be much better off using a high quality amp-sim equipment (line-6, Korg, etc.) It's more flexible, cheaper, more portable, more reliable, and less chance of electrocuting yourself. Also you won't look like some half-assed dork with a rig that looks like it came out of a flea market.

:-)

LOL - nice one Mike

Completely wasted on that imbecile though

might i suggest an Avatar cab?

The G110: available with the 16 ohm Celestion G10 Vintage. $189. plus $29. shipping.

That could be reasonable. I assume I would want to go the 16 ohm route, given thatn I'm trying to minimize volume, right? I assume the real output level will be half as much into a 16 ohm speaker as into an 8 ohm speaker, right?

However, it's a 60 watt speaker, and weren't you advocating against using higher rated speakers for low power amps?

LOL - nice one Mike

Particularly given that that dork got laid more in some weeks than I'll probably manage in my life.

well, that's just the cost WITH that particular speaker...

if it were me, i'd order the cabinet alone, then put whatever speaker i wanted in it....

there are a lot of speaker options that would dial in your requirements...

i can attest that the build quality of the vintage cabs is nice..
here's mine:

i loaded it with a Celestion HERITAGE G12H, which is the british hand-made greenback.
"The new Celestion G12H is a perfect recreation of the low resonance model,
right down to the voice coil former material, glue formulations and vintage, solder-only tag panel."

Well, in the end, after much scraping and selling a couple other things, I made a move. Though, in the end, I had to really crank it down to the bare minimum. I ended up getting the Ephiphone Valve Jr. head/cab. It's a very simple design, not at all unlike the Champ designs, 5 watts, just a volume knob and that's it.

Since it is so simple, it's very amenable to lots of simple after market mods, which I may do some of, though the most recent ones have incorporated some of the ones that people were commonly doing, so it requires fewer of them. At some point I may replace the speaker with soemthing better. I got a better 12ax7 tube for it. I'll play with upgrading the power tube later perhaps.

And I got an e609 for micing, a TS9 tube screamer pedal, which will also act as a gain and tone device since this amp has no tone control, and a passive Radial A/B pedal that I will use when tracking bass, so that I can send in a DI signal through the P-1 pre-amp, and take the e609 through the Great River (or vice versa as the situation dictates.)

The whole thing was $554, no shipping costs, no local taxes. So that's stripped down to the bare bones, but it'll be a good upgrade. Considering I started out looking at $2000 solutions or $1500 solutions, that's a huge reduction in costs. I really can't afford even this, but I've worked like a dog all year long and haven't had any new toys of any sort since like Feb or so. And I really want to get the quality up a bit. Hopefully I can sell Amplitube, in which case I'll put that towards a new pre-wired faceplate for my Strat to get the tone much improved on that front as well. The LP has DiMarzio Virtual PAFs in it and it sounds pretty nice already, and should make for some good natural crunch with the Vjr.

The Valve Jr. is actually nice sounding little amp from what I've heard and read, at least in the most recent incarnations. It's going to be too loud to crank up fully for that natural crunch without some help. I'm first going to see what I can do with just building a pseudo ico box around it with bass traps. I have plenty of 3" and 6" traps laying around. If that doesn't work, I'll have to spring for oe of the Weber attenuators or something.

i would have suggested the Peavy Jsx Mini Colossal over the epi amp...

i've owned both.
the mini was a much better sounding amp, with a lot more bells and whistles, as well as a built in attenuator AND a direct XLR out.

There have been three versions of the Valve Jr., so if you owned an earlier version, it wasn't as good an amp as it is now. A lot of the mods folks were doing have been incorporated. Also, did you have the combo, or the head? The combo of course has a wee speaker and would be limited because of that.

But there are still lots of inexpensive mods you can do it, and it's a very simple and pure signal path, which appeals to me more than the bells and whistles. I bought the standard set of replacement tubes that are so commonly used withit that folks sell them as a Valve Jr. tube kit (a Tungsol 12ax7 and JJ EL84), and suposedly they make a large difference as well.

I'll look into some of the other mods once I get it and get accustomed to it and see if I want to change anything.

http://vintagetubeservices.com/page16.html

droddey-
the model i had, i bought at the same time as the mini-
this was about a year and a half ago, for whatever that is worth to know....

it was a head, stock.

we ran both amps (bypassing the crummy little speaker in both) into a Avatar 2x12, miced with a AT4033, and recorded on Sonar for a comparison session.
we spent quite a bit of time experimenting with them both, and recording each.

i can say that the harder you push the Epi, the more flabby it sounds.

best to use it for low and medium gain sounds...

also, it works better to drive it set at low gain, with a boost of some sort, preferably, a clean boost along the orders of a Barber launch pad.

this doesn't have the cabinet we used, we did the testing and recording in another location, but these are the two amps we used....

If it was that long ago, it was probably a V1. It's been much improved since then. One of the simple mods is a brightness switch that's easy enough that even I (a software guy) would feel comfortable doing. And of course you can use various pedals. I orded a TS9 Tube Screamer, which lots of folks use, either as a distortion pedal, or just as a clean drive/tone control for the amp. And the replacement tubes are supposed to make the breakup smoother as well.

I've heard your stuff of course, and we are probably shooting for a different sort of sound for the most part. I'm interested in something with a fairly vintage sound. Once I hear it and get a feel for it, I may opt to do the brightness switch mode, which is basically just for what you indicated, to remove more low end as the drive goes up. And it may be affected by the difference the speaker you used vs. what I'll have, so I'll see what it sounds like first and then see where I may want to go wrt to mods. Most of them are very easy and cheap to do.

well, you picked a fun one to work on that's for sure, and there's really nothing to stop you from all the experimenting you want to do with it (versus a real vintage unit, like an old champ)

keep us posted!

Well I got it in today. I've got to go get some new strings and a 9v battery. I gave it a very quick test, just to swap out the pre-amp tube (new power amp tube won't arrive until monday) and make sure that it came up. It's LOUD. I'm definitely going to have to get the Weber attenuator if I want to do the cranked up natural crunch thing. With the LP it's REALLY LOUD because of the higher output pickups.

Definitely though, even with that quick test, and even with such a low cost amp, the difference between a real amp and a sim is obvious. It's hard to even quantify what the difference is, but it's clear. I've been working with sims for a couple years now since I got into this thing of ours, so I know that sound very well. You can definitely tell this is one of those 'all tube, very simple path' type of amps. Unlike going through a DI to a sim, every little thing is amplified. I'll have to get used to that, because every movement of the fingers on the strings and such is much more obvious.

I think it's going to be GREAT for bass. Either by itself, close mic'd for proximity effect, or further back for a brigher sound and mixed with a simulataneous DI'd input. I think it's going to add a lot of realism to the bass, and be a sound that I'm going to really like.

Of course this is all with way overly old strings (which was a good thing when DI'ing to avoid excessive high end), one tube still to replace, and just hearingit in the room, not what the mic is going to hear. So I've still got a lot of experimentation to do.

It does have a fair amount of low end, at least in the room. So I probably will do at least one of the simple mods to add a switch to roll off some lows when not wanted. I don't want to get rid of them altogether, because for a jazzy thing it would be great. And I want to hear awhat I can do with the pedal's tone control as well.

Electrons moving in a vacuum... as opposed to electrons moving through dirt. :-)

The next time you hear Jimi ask "are you experienced" you'll know the answer :-)

have fun!
mike

It's not like you can't do good work with sims. I'm going to have a good comparison because I just got finished tracking the basic backing tracks for a tune, and I'd worked hard on getting a good sound. I'm going back now and re-tracking them with the amp. So I'll have a real world tune, at least the core tracks of one, with the only difference between sim vs. amp. And I know the sim thing well, so the sims won't be getting short shrift, they'll have a fair chance, actually an unfair chance since I've never mic'd an amp before yesterday. I'll post the two versions for comparison.

On the other side of things, setting up to record is a major production compared to using sims. With the sims. I just plug the guitar or bass into one of the pre-amp DIs and put on the headphone, and I'm tracking. And it's hugely flexible in terms of adjusting after the fact. With the amp scheme there's a lot more to do and not nearly so much chance to change it after the fact.

So they both have their pros and cons.

Personally, it's just a lot more fun to play a real amp... I don't get much thrill out of the sims, even if the end result were identical.

I got the Bitmo Trio mod done tonight. A couple moments of semi-terror, but mostly it went quite smoothly, and I'm hardly a whiz with the soldering iron. It adds a three position gain swith plus tone control with boost (pull it out for boost.) And I've got the replacement tubes both in place now as well.

It really makes it a completely different amp, I have to say. Far more flexible. I've just played a bit with it so far, but clearly it's turned it from an uber-simple amp to a pretty dang flexible one. It also gets rid of the kind of farty tone and excessive mid-range. It's going to be a far better recording amp for sure, with a lot more range. I can lighten it up now for that soft, thin soul/funk sort of sound really well now, which I couldn't before at all.

I've got the Weber Mini-Mass on the way, so that I can crank it up for some more natural tube breakup, which will make a lot of difference I'm sure. Some of the new tones I'm getting, I can tell that if I could get it cranked up to light breakup with harder attack, it's going to be into a nice 'Little Wing' sort of territory with the Strat. With the gain switch on high and the boost out, and the ability to crank the volume, it's probably going to give some serious overdrive as well.

So, coming along pretty well, still for a quite minimal investment. The whole thing is still only at $400 with the Mini-Mass. I'll post some results before too much longer hopefully.

Gentlemen,
I realize I'm coming late to the conversation, but here goes.

Dean,
Be VERY CAREFUL with any mods to the Valve Jr. The pcb traces are very thin and fragile.
Here is what you can expect with the VJ dimed.
VJ unmodded into Demeter ISO cab, EV speaker (not my favorite speaker) SM57 into UA 6176, PRS Santana model both pickups.
The stock VJ speaker is pretty bad, IMHO.

I think Mike has the best solution in his "half baked" amp, into one of the old Rolas in the ISO Box.
Mike have you tried a THD Yellow Jacket in the half baked? I'm an EL-84 kind of guy myself!

With regards to the ISO cab. Is it the perfect solution? No absolutely not! The perfect "room" with the amp close
miked and a room mic for natural ambiance is what we all want, MOST of the time. Wish in one hand...

Regarding the use of the Vintage 30 in the ISO box. I'm not at all surprized that batsbrew was unimpressed with the tone. The V30's
seem to require A LOT of exercise to "sweeten" up.

Here is the ISO with an Eminence "The Tonker" that's had about 48 hours of "exercise".
'68 goldtop with Fralin PAF's>DVA Fifty>The Tonker>SM57>UA6176

I hook the speaker (in the ISO box) to the Variac and ran it at about 40 watts (about 18 volts) for the "Tonk" (less for a lower rated speaker).

Bias remains important EVEN in the single ended, and push/pull cathode biased designs. I have a Ceriatone "LiverPull" that draws WAY too much
current. The EL-84's are almost RED hot, NOT GOOD. I need to change out the power section cathode resistor.

Just my .02.

Hey Tom,
Thanks for those samples.
Could you give me your impression of the guitar sound in this clip?
NHISG
Thanks.

RLD,
Its working. Nice touch, you're killin' me! Got a link to the full tune?
That's the Strat in your avatar? What's the signal path?
John Nelson (Eddy Money) had a 1 pickup (Duncan stacked Bucker), single knob '57 I think. Just a monstor thru a 4 input Marshall!

Hey Tom,
Actually I used this red Kramer on that song.
Never Had It So Good
You can see the Strat on the chair. I put in EMG's and went to volume only, no tone knobs.
This is the chain I used... Kramer>VOX>BeyerM69>Behringer DDX3216>ADAT out to PC.
The VOX is a modeler, but it has a pretty convincing sound, no?
I live in Renton...I'll have to stop your shop one day.

Way Cool!
We'll have to meet at A# Music one day, they have one of my 100 watters there.

I think what's really hurting me now are pickups. I bought my Strat used, and the price was a little suspiciously low. It is an American Strat, but I'm suspicious that someone swapped face plates and put some el cheapo electronis on it. They don't sound paritcularly good. All of the replacement pickups that everyone seems to think are the shiz are $220 to $250 a set (Frailin, Lohlar, Kinman, Suhr, Duncan Antiquities.) That's as much as I paid for the amp, which I could barely afford.

ORIGINAL: DeeringAmps

Way Cool!
We'll have to meet at A# Music one day, they have one of my 100 watters there.

Yeah...A# is about 10 minutes from my house.
I don't think I could handle a 100 watts anymore.
I record my VOX on the 5 Watt setting and it can get too loud.

Yeah,
I straighten out a JCM 800 100 watt lately, delivered it yesterday, and of course we had to lite it up.
Ouch!

Rockmod Brick-nice looking head! Does it have speaker outs? What is the wattage?

can't go wrong with Bill Lawrence replacement pickups, many varieties..

http://guitarsbyfender.yuku.com/forums/11

http://www.billlawrencereview.com/L-500

http://www.billlawrence.com/

ORIGINAL: droddey

I think what's really hurting me now are pickups. I bought my Strat used, and the price was a little suspiciously low. It is an American Strat, but I'm suspicious that someone swapped face plates and put some el cheapo electronis on it. They don't sound paritcularly good. All of the replacement pickups that everyone seems to think are the shiz are $220 to $250 a set (Frailin, Lohlar, Kinman, Suhr, Duncan Antiquities.) That's as much as I paid for the amp, which I could barely afford.

Hi, Dean,

Obviously, this has gotten off of the original topic, but since it's your thread..... ;>)

The other guitarist in my current part-time band just put Fralin's in his American Standard Strat. Not sure which model, but they're supposed to be very "vintage" sounding. He bought the three pickups already mounted in a pick guard (meaning: very expensive). Do they sound good? Yes. Do they knock my socks off and make me beg for mercy? Not at all. Compared to the Lace Sensors on my Strat Plus, the Fralin's sound more bell-like (vintage, I suppose) but otherwise I don't see the reasoning for the big difference in price. Depending on the style you play, the "vintage" vibe may or may not be what you want, anyway.

My point, of course, is that you don't really have to spend big bucks to get pickups that sound pretty darned good. Maybe all those expensive models that you mention are incrementally "better" (which is very subjective, anyways) than less expensive or famous pickups. But some of the Fender aftermarket P/U's, like the Texas Specials, etc., are not bad sounding and cost a lot less. There will be a lot of folks that will say I'm completely nuts, but I actually like the tone of my Carvin single coils that are on my Carvin Bolt kit. They have a bit more output than the Lace P/U's in my Fender, and they have a very nice, fat tone to my ears. And they're very inexpensive...... They aren't real pretty to look at, though, since they're sans covers. I'll bet you can find a very good sounding set of P/U's for your Strat for a lot less money than what you might think. Of course, if the guitar, itself, isn't sonically sweet, no pickups are going to make it sound magnificent at any price......

Also, you might check the caps, pots, etc., in your Strat and make sure that whoever changed out the P/U's didn't also put in some crappola electronics or the wrong value caps, etc..

Best regards,
Bill

Edited for spelling