Loving that Spyro Gyra and George Benson as well that guy from Toto.... not so much.. Thanks for PDF Mike

Oh, on that 3rd album the guitar player had hair then.

Someone else's turn. I'm outta of this thread I suppose.

FYI out of all jazz styles so called smooth jazz sucks the most and it actually completely died few years ago when even radio playing this kinda music went out of business (forgot the station name). This "music" was an example of absolutely soul-less stream of boring sounds, which actually can be generated by computer as well and the only purpose of such thing is background  sounds on airports and train stations. Actually I'd prefer silence instead anyway.

I find it amusing that people seem to think that jazz stopped (or reached a peak) way back somewhere with certain famous players of the time. They were great for sure but now we have musicians with even more technical skill than many players from the past. (and even if modern players are not technically better now they are harmonically much more advanced) Take drummers for example. There are drummers around today who are WAY better than even the best drummers of the past. Many older jazz drummers could not play like many unbelievable modern players for example to save themselves. Jazz drumming has evolved. It did not stop in 1950. Jazz everything has moved forward.

Harmonically, modern jazz exponents are also way ahead, people like Kurt Rosenwinkel for example and even Brad Mehldau etc..Joshua Redman etc  If you don't believe this, it is because you don't understand modern jazz music today and where it is at now. (I must admit it is getting incredibly complex) That is what is incredible about Jazz for example. It does not stop at some point, it keeps on going.

It is very similar to tennis for example. Tennis today is faster, more complex and is at the peak of where it can be. ( I am not sure where it can go from where it is now though! Tennis may have reached a peak) Players like Roger Federer and Novak Djokovic, Rafa etc are WAY better than any tennis player from the past. They would beat past players now. (eg if you took Roger at his peak back in time to when say Pete Sampras was the best) Why is that I wonder. Because the game has developed and just got quicker, faster, harder, better etc..It has evolved.

Jazz is forever evolving. Ask any great Jazz musician today and that is excatly what they will tell you. If some of those great Jazz musicians from the past were alive today they may not be playing the same way now. They would have evolved as well. And if they did not move forward they would be left in the dust by the best modern players without doubt.

I wonder what Miles Davis would be doing today. He would still be leading the charge as he always did. I heard Lee Konitz receently on a great modern CD. He sounds nothing like he did 40 or 50 years ago. Amazing. Incredibly modern.

I don't agree with Ben either re classical music. It is very alive and well thanks very much. Ben you are lucky to be living in a city that has got one of the most amazing orchestras. The TSO. They are doing amazing stuff. Huge audiences are coming out here in Melbourne to attend classical concerts. And the music is evolving too. Some of the very latest modern classical pieces are absolutely incredible!

You need help to keep up with modern music in any form. You can't do it by yourself. That is why people say Oh, it stopped back there at some point. eg My son is very very in touch with the latest and best modern jazz for example. He sends me the music all the time and drags me to gigs etc. Dad he says, check these guys out. I would not have known where to look now. I need him to show me. I am usually pretty stunned when I hear it. Same with the classical stuff. When you hang around those people you get to hear and appreciate it.

mike_mccue

Jazz is alive and it's being listening to by bright young people.

Good News!!!

indeed great news, but you didn't mention on which  planet...

mmmmm...when is 'music' noise and vice versa?

My own take is that it just depends on who is doing the teaching. I had a teacher here who played professionally in a free jazz group that also had some musicians in it who also made their own instruments. I also ended up going to a conservatory of music that actually had an improvisational class...

I think it also depends on talent, eh wot?

offnote

trimph1


mmmmm...when is 'music' noise and vice versa?

it's simple when somebody has  no talent, no ears and got no rhythm but still want to play "music" he/she calls himself/herself a free jazzer
and all it's forgiven and they're are excused and chicken baby.  Far more common among male "musicians" though. Ben is it ego problem?

mmmmm...interesting. 


And where does the audience sit in all this?


Passive receivers of the music then? No active selection going on? I see a lot of kids going to a few record stores here in town looking or stuff like John Coltrane or Anthony Braxton..or, yes, your radical other...Merzbow and Toshinori Kondo...


My own music library consists of things like 1920-1930's gospel, new orleans jazz, traditional(whatever that term means..to you) jazz, classical, prog rock, folk, free jazz, and yes, noise core from Japan, Pat Methany's loud jazz stuff, Peter Brotzmann, Ivo Perelman...on and on


Consider the reaction Stravinsky got for his 'Rite of Spring' way back then..noise can become music in some ways not seen ...

offnote

trimph1


Consider the reaction Stravinsky got for his 'Rite of Spring' way back then..noise can become music in some ways not seen ...

sure it can be but it requires I think some pattern and order to be considered a music. Take for instance a noise from moving train which is clearly a rhythm section sound from many tunes they took it from. Still there is a pattern and order not a chaos.  

Even pure noise, like, say, white noise ends up with a pattern of some sort..even if it is 'constructed' within our brains.


I found that listening to free jazz made me think a little more about what WE call patterns may be a 'social construction' in that we assign certain note clusters as chords say, melody lines, beat patterns...even the idea that having no technique becomes a type of technique.


I can tongue my sax...in that I can 'trill' or tttrrrrrr...my tongue...I wonder what that is really called.   

trimph1


I can tongue my sax...in that I can 'trill' or tttrrrrrr...my tongue...I wonder what that is really called.   

ok then, let it be when I take a dump in my closet it's music. It's a little bit sh#tty but fine with me if you want to buy my record...

offnote

trimph1


I can tongue my sax...in that I can 'trill' or tttrrrrrr...my tongue...I wonder what that is really called.   

ok then, let it be when I take a dump in my closet it's music. It's a little bit sh#tty but fine with me if you want to buy my record...

  


How am I to answer that bleat? You must love strawman arguments.


 All you did was prove that you really do not know that much about what is getting taught in music schools now. What about breath control? Did you know that Tuvan throat singing has actually been used in some Chinese folk metal recently? Try checking out Youtube for Ego Fall sometime, oh, what the hey...an example...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ednr_MM4nZk 


Learning various ways of breath control has given my lungs a workout that I could not get from orthodox means...


And, as far as I am concerned the last bit of commentary from you just makes me wonder how old you really are... 

I think Dave Gilmer said it in one of these video links. Music is changing like it always does. And I suppose men will have to put up with the ladies in jazz and smooth jazz and other areas of music also.

By the way I think she is now 24 years old. Of course she ended up taking some music instructions after playing bass at 15 years old. (Australia)

And then there are others like Candy Dulfer. (Netherlands)

Too bad, since they learned music either young or pursued it recently.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gO7FI_ogvA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLEGQ4VO4Uo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgQegqw9IrI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gcOHZXxG_k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJbETMGDeDo

But eventually all end up learning more about music (and there are youtube videos on that also.

The chord name depends on the key signature that the music is in. Take C-E-G-A or Cmaj6 in the C key signature, in the A key signature it becomes Am7 chord.
I am sure that all of you see there has to be a language to describe what anyone is doing in music whether just talking the chord or writing it down in scribbles or even perhaps like Beethoven.

My, this is getting long.  :) 

Philip, to answer your original question...I sure do wish I had more musical education, especially now that I'd like to get into orchestra compostion. (it would be fun to know more about what I'm doing and the conventional way of doing things!) :)  Not quite sure where I'd fit it into my day, but maybe some day.

In the meantime, I play in a band with a high school music teacher...obviously some good education there.  She sings and plays the piano beautifully.  I've seen her pick up the bass guitar like she knows what she's doing and she can help guitarists with the chords, without being near a guitar! And I think she can teach any of the orchestra instruments.  

I took 5 years of piano lessons and have tried to teach myself other things along the way, including some rudimentary playing by ear.  What tickles me is that sometimes I'll play a chord a different way or use a different chord in a transition (that seems obvious to me) and she'll have to ask me what I'm doing.  I don't know that she writes her own music, although I imagine she could.  She watches me play drums and wishes she were that coordinated.  (and I'm merely a beginner, with a couple of lessons behind me) 

Then there's the high school girl in the elite choir...I played for her and her dad the other day for a wedding.  I had to help her find the harmony part.  I guess I learned to sing harmony back in Jr. High from a kind high school girl who wanted to teach us kids.  

I just think it's cool that we're all gifted in different ways (i.e, those who can't read a note can often out-play the 'educated' by far.)  Some have both natural gifting AND education.  Some have the technical (educated) prowess some of us can only ever wish for.    

I can't even count the theory books I've started.  Hopefully I'm picking up a little along the way at least.  lol

Why should I accept that a digital orchestra is the best way to further classical music?

Most of the famous name composers wrote their symphonic music on a piano and in their minds.

Has something changed?

best regards,
mike

Oh and some of you here should read a book here called Mozart in The Jungle by Blair Tindall.  This book is about a naive girl who gets into one of the top New York music schools, she is an Oboe player.

She details her adventures trying to get into the top orchestra's at the time in New York, in the end she ends up playing tined music on broadway, Cats and the like.

Lets just say her experiences with Orchestra's are why digital ones are coming into vouge.

Peace Ben