Helpful ReplyMusical Education? (Composers and Performers Please)

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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/20 17:55:48 (permalink)

"Orchestras are at best a machine and at worst a complication."

That statement simply scares me.






"Ok dubious reference but on the Wiki site about the 9th, a witness tells how Beethoven"

I suggest that the most dubious aspect of your statement is that you are using an example of a musician's public and humiliating experience of suffering through the cruel realization that his condition of deafness makes him incapable of conducting.

I don't think this serves as a useful example of why you might think that "Orchestras are at best a machine and at worst a complication."



all the best,
mike






BenMMusTech
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/20 18:01:19 (permalink)
Read Tindall's book then Mike, it will open your eyes.  I am using two examples to back up my argument, more than enough to make a point.

Peace

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BenMMusTech
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/20 18:04:08 (permalink)
Actually Mike I have given three examples, if you read that graph, The Oz taxpayer is propping up a dead horse, how would you like it if you were a visual artist and the peice of pie you were given was smaller than what the orchestra got.

Please SIR can I have some more???

Peace Ben

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trimph1
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/20 18:07:50 (permalink)
"Orchestras are at best a machine and at worst a complication." 


I'm not so sure that it is as bleak as all that. IIRC Eno said something to the affect that it appeared that eastern european/russian orchestras seemed to be much more livelier than what is usually seen here, much more 'meatier' as it were...that may be because of how we may have been approached...musicians as technicians as it were....


There was a time when it was seen as a game-listen to a specific orchestra's musicians and you could, apparently, say where they were taught.


My wife is a formally taught musician who also had that experience of being in orchestras and being told that while she was technically brilliant all she could do was 'play the d$%n notes'....

The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate.

Bushpianos
backwoods
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/20 18:13:50 (permalink)
An interesting interview with Phish's Trey here: http://believermag.com/issues/201107/?read=interview_anastasio

I think it is quite interesting and pertinent to the discussion.
BenMMusTech
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/20 18:36:12 (permalink)
It will take me a while to get through that article backwoods.  I am likeing the bit I have read, though, sort of some of the stuff I have been talking about.

Peace Ben

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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/20 19:43:03 (permalink)
BenMMusTech


Because (ok speculation) and go ahead its time to shoot me down some more Mike, if Beethoven had a tool like this he would have told the orchestra to **** off.
...
Any composer worth his salt and ego would have forgone an orchestra if he or she could write, play and perform all the parts themselves.  Orchestras are at best a machine and at worst a complication.
Agree one hundred million percent. Composers have long looked down their noses at those charged with interpreting (playing) the stuff in their head. Now, all that creative craziness can be hidden as the composer toils to gets the exact articulation/timing down in his home studio. 

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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/20 20:03:22 (permalink)
mmmm...I wonder...I have a series of percussion/composers magazines that seemed to have articles that actually wondered about what happens to a society's ability to solve problems if one had to go to a professional school to get the degree in music.

Mind you, those things came out during the early 1970's...

The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate.

Bushpianos
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/20 21:30:11 (permalink)
jamesyoyo


BenMMusTech


Because (ok speculation) and go ahead its time to shoot me down some more Mike, if Beethoven had a tool like this he would have told the orchestra to **** off.
...
Any composer worth his salt and ego would have forgone an orchestra if he or she could write, play and perform all the parts themselves.  Orchestras are at best a machine and at worst a complication.
Agree one hundred million percent. Composers have long looked down their noses at those charged with interpreting (playing) the stuff in their head. Now, all that creative craziness can be hidden as the composer toils to gets the exact articulation/timing down in his home studio. 

Are you mocking me James, becuase that is exactly what I am doing at the moment, I am taking one of "those" unfinshed ideas and fixing the string section.
 
Am using Notion 3 and learning a whole heap even in just one day, esp string theory.
 
As I say **** orchestra's if you read that book I have suggested some might just agree with me.  If the people on this forum think I am a drug crazed ego manic then you shuold read Blair Tindall's book the average orchestral musician is a monster compared to me.
 
Ben

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backwoods
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/20 22:03:30 (permalink)
deleted for the good of mankind
post edited by backwoods - 2011/12/20 22:14:01
BenMMusTech
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/20 22:31:49 (permalink)
backwoods


deleted for the good of mankind

Why this is a free forum, we should all feel free to speak our minds.  As long as it is not trolling, look James, Danny and I have been ****slapping each other but at the end of the day Danny is the only one with the fragile ego, if you have read any of his posts you may get what I mean. 
 
So say it!!!
 
Forthright debate and there has been a lot on this topic, good, bad and offtopic is the order of the day, we are all emotional beings and on any given day one of us may be having a bad day, hence the way I have reacted towards, Danny and James over the last few days.
 
There is also the old tall poppy syndrome going on and the academia debate going on too and you can read this inbetween the lines of the posts and the thread.
 
Danny and James are non academics and feel threatend, I know what I know and can prove the moon can fart if I want because I am trained to prove stuff even stuff that may not exsist.  Huh, more wankademic crap, see I have a sence of humour.
 
So say it, I have made some outlandish claims given some facts and figures, there is even a narative.  If you have read all my posts.
 
I am a futurist and no not the musical movement, I believe we are heading here and this is the way to get there.  Most will think I am a nut job, free world but I will leave you with a quote from Pete Townshend:
 
"If I told you what it takes
to reach the highest high,
You'd laugh and say 'nothing's that simple'
But you've been told many times before
Messiahs pointed to the door
And no one had the guts to leave the temple!"

 
Ben


post edited by BenMMusTech - 2011/12/20 22:33:25

Benjamin Phillips-Bachelor of Creative Technology (Sound and Audio Production), (Hons) Sonic Arts, MMusTech (Master of Music Technology), M.Phil (Fine Art)
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ohgrant
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/21 00:10:19 (permalink)
Sorry Phil, I tried...For what it's worth I agree with Danny and James Ben, to my ears your stuff is sonic drivel. I really hoped you would see the light and realize Danny was just trying to help you. Sometimes an ego can help a person grow and learn and sometimes it is a wall that keeps genuine knowledge out. I'm suspecting a serious substance abuse problem is at the heart of all of this and I sincerely hope you get the help you need. Just for your information, Janet teaches music, she has more musical knowledge than you will ever learn at this rate. In fact everyone here stuff sounds much better than yours. Sorry but you seem to want an honest answer. So sorry again Phil.
post edited by ohgrant - 2011/12/21 01:02:29

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BenMMusTech
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/21 01:19:28 (permalink)
ohgrant


Sorry Phil, I tried...For what it's worth I agree with Danny and James Ben, to my ears your stuff is sonic drivel. I really hoped you would see the light and realize Danny was just trying to help you. Sometimes an ego can help a person grow and learn and sometimes it is a wall that keeps genuine knowledge out. I'm suspecting a serious substance abuse problem is at the heart of all of this and I sincerely hope you get the help you need. Just for your information, Janet teaches music, she has more musical knowledge than you will ever learn at this rate. In fact everyone here stuff sounds much better than yours. Sorry but you seem to want an honest answer. So sorry again Phil.

Your welcome to your opinion, Grant is it???, look I am quite happy to listen to YOYO and Danny (and will go back and make Paranoia perfect, I know how), the problem is Danny and I were having a private converstaion and he decided to make it public, you don't think I listen to each of your opinions because I do.  And I was happy to talk to Danny privately and listen, I knew most of what he had to say and accept his opinion and do try each and everyday to be a better person.
 
My creative brain won't switch on, it's as simple as that, I can't fire up to get what I want out at the moment.  I know it's in me to make something that all of you would like but when you have family problems, not drug problems it's hard to stop all the extra noise.
 
As for the substance abuse problem, this is the extent of it, believe me if you want.
 
I wake up and drink some coffee (coffee is a drug, read Food of The Gods) about 5 or 6 o'clock I have the equivilent of a joint (pot) and over the course of the eveing some wine.  I try and keep my suger intake down, because suger is also a drug and many wars were fought over it in the 1600's.
 
Do I go on a bender sometimes, Yes, last week for instance after trying very hard to get into various jobs and course's (all to say no) I think I am allowed to go on a bender and all it was, was a whisky bender.
 
Have I tried other drugs, yes I have tried them all, you cannot make an informed opinion on anything unless you have tried it.  For instance, speed is insidious but it has it's place for obesity and ADHD, would I take it on a daily basis NO.  LSD, is a very misunderstood drug and there is some anecdotal evidence that LSD, I have an article, can help deppresion.  Also Food of the Gods by Terrence McKenna suggests as early bi-ped primates we may have ingested magic mushrooms to develop consciousness.  He is suggesting without those mushrooms we may still be monkey's.  Then we have MDMA which was first synthasized as a drug in 1910 and was developed as an anti-depressant.  What they call MDMA these day's is very dangerous and even though I have had my share, I don't care for it.
 
Heroin, I smoked it once and know why people become hooked, it was very pleasent, do I take it, no, would I take it with a needle, no.  I hate needles, here is the kicker, if I was a sane goverment I would be handing this stuff out to old people in homes.
 
Cocaine, well I tried that once too, I would prefer the coca leaf and so would not take Cocaine on any sort of basis, very boring but without it, no Sherlock Holmes and no Sigmund Freud he and Doyle were Cocaine feinds and lets not forget the Queen, Queen Victoria.
 
What have I left out, no to GBH, no to any of this crap floating around.
 
So I can't see much of a drug problem.
 
As for Janet, I didn't know what she was teaching (music obviously), she just said she would like to know more and I found because I am auto-didactict that Notion 3 to be a kicker for learning musical notation theory.
 
Now should I be as open on these forums, well possibly not but how can we have an honest dialog without exposing yourself and your flaws, you know mine, so you can sit there and kick me for hours if you like, I can handdle it.
 
Someday's it kicks and it actually hurts but hey that is life and that is when I get into trouble.
 
I don't understand, I have displayed a large breadth of knowledge and on a broad range of subjects, you know what? (how many books have I said to go and read) It is hard for smart people to make connections because it's hard to connect, this is not say I am better or greater or any **** like that, I read stuff and connect the dots. 
 
I don't have a life or a family but I read and I know how the world turns, most if not all of you have busy lives and families, so I don't expect you to spend days reading and gathering knowledge and you know what it is preatty lonley and boring but hey I am educated and aware.
 
So as I said Grant, you are welcome to your opinion on one of the most subjective artforms we have, what sounds like cake to you may sound like dogs turd to me.
 
Sorry Janet, I didn't mean to come accross as condescending.  As Grant say's you probably know more than me when it comes to music.
 
Ben

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BenMMusTech
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/21 01:25:20 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Actually I am just one bored **** and at the moment, talking to you lot is the only intellectual stimulation I get.  Sad but true.

Ben

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ohgrant
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/21 01:54:45 (permalink)

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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/21 02:09:53 (permalink)
ohgrant




Huh, it doesn'tmake sence!!!, look my final word on your drug allegations is you don't finish anything if you have a substance abuse problem.
 
Ben

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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/21 02:13:28 (permalink)
Listening to your tunes at the moment Grant, I'm a rocker, you need to roll off some of that bottom end and dip at 400hz, it's far too muddy.

Otherwise I think I could listen to this over James track, it's a little loose too.

Ben


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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/21 02:17:29 (permalink)
These Autum Leaves, actually is a good melody, the mix is bad, I can't hear the lyrics or the tom rolls.  There is a conversion problem too, I can hear the conversion process of the cym's.

If this was mixed better and this is no joke get Danny to give you a hand, this is a really nice melody. 

Peace Ben

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BenMMusTech
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/21 02:18:37 (permalink)
I actually liked These Autum Leaves, good job.

Peace Ben

Benjamin Phillips-Bachelor of Creative Technology (Sound and Audio Production), (Hons) Sonic Arts, MMusTech (Master of Music Technology), M.Phil (Fine Art)
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ohgrant
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/21 02:23:22 (permalink)
Please do not spam for me thanks. Last serious response from me until I see an improvement on your work and attitude. You have no creditability with me I know my coarse.
post edited by ohgrant - 2011/12/21 02:31:09

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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/21 02:43:47 (permalink)
ohgrant


Please do not spam for me thanks. Last serious response from me until I see an improvement on your work and attitude. You have no creditability with me I know my coarse.

Should I?? no,
 
The attitude thing, well that has been mentioned before.
 
The world is geared toward the ordinary, not the extraordinary.
 
Attitude, you know what? My attitude is not all that bad compared to some!  In fact I am starting to forget why I am being crucified for, for stating my creditals, for helping people and I can get people on this forum to vouch for that and for being a boaster.
 
Wow you will hang a man on not much these day's.
 
Even if it is only a virtual hanging!
 
Oh sorry I forgot bad tunes as well.  The worst crime of them all!
 
Oh god please give me the strength one last time, so I can smite the unbeliever's!!
 
Neb

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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/21 08:22:27 (permalink) ☄ Helpful

Ben, There is a common term used by academics that is used to describe behavior such as yours. I'm going to share this with you because I gather that you, as an academic, can appreciate it's meaning and perhaps recognize that it describes a very common phenomenon in communities familiar with the process of secondary learning.

It may further suggest to you why so many of your fellow forum members extend friendship to you despite the barriers that you construct which makes it seem difficult.

The behavior is common and familiar to any and all of us that have acted this way at one time. Many of us have experienced this behavior in their friends and acquaintances. I think many here would agree that it is a natural process of human development.


Your behavior is classically sophmoric and it is something you will be able to put aside as all the info you have learned in the past 10 years settles in.

For example; You'll learn how distasteful it is to announce your credentials to a room full of people who have welcomed you into their society and would prefer to take it for granted that you are prepared to enter conversations with both competence and grace. You either are or you aren't prepared... you can leave the credentials at the door.





I like you Ben, you have zest... like a wild pony.

Please don't ever forget that people like you and enjoy your presence.



You are gong to be alright. Just keep learning what interests you, but make some time to consider that your peers would much rather relax in your company and accept you as a brother than listen to a bunch of sophomoric posturing.

When you get to a point where what I have just written doesn't make you angry you will no longer be a sophomore and your credentials will finally seem to be something that can be taken for granted.

Good Luck.

all the very best,
mike




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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/21 09:05:48 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Wow, I so can't believe the stuff I've read here. Just unreal. Ok, I'll try to breathe and do the right thing.

Ben, I'm not threatened by anyone. And I don't fear anyone musically or compositionally speaking. I'm happy with the music I make and am happy with myself, where I've been, who I worked with, who I work with today and what I've accomplished. I so can't believe the stance you've taken and how you've attacked James, myself and now Grant.

I tried to do you a favor by telling you my feelings. I didn't share anything publicly that wasn't supposed to be shared. I told you in private that I felt it was best for me not to give you my take. What I posted here to you initially, was not my full take. I went easy on you...trust me. You thought I was harsh in my intial response? You might have imploded if you read what I WAS going to post. If I would have known for sure you would have acted like this...I would have posted it so you would have rightly been put in your place once and for all. 

You're like the dog in the kennel that everyone feels needs a chance. They try to help you only to have you bite the hands that feed you. You'll self destruct in time or maybe you'll get a clue. I'm really impressed that several didn't go off on you in this thread for your actions. They chose to either be nice to you because they didn't want any confrontation, they felt sorry for you or they looked at your posts...labeled you an attention seeker and closed the thread.

Fragile ego? Me? I don't understand. Where have I shown any sort of fragile ego? You asked for comments about your stuff. I gave them to you while also pointing out your continuous bragging without delivering anything other than a senseless voice for the sake of a voice and more bragging. I explained that there is a difference between belief in ones self, and all out bragging. I can't believe I found it in my heart to even respond to you. It's people like you that kill it for the good people. James, Grant and myself will all think twice before ever going out on a limb again to a ticking time bomb person like you...rest assured. We don't need the aggravation nor do we need to waste the time. I blame myself though for knowing all of this going into it. I knew you would react this way, but took a shot anyway in hopes you wouldn't. The same as James did. Neither of us deserved what you threw at us for simply being as honest and up front as possible because YOU asked.

Well, you've burned many bridges on this forum....I hope you know that. No one cares about your degrees, what you have to say or how brilliant your songs or compositions are. As long as the man behind the music (or whatever you choose to call it today) is you, the music will be as meaningless as its creator. I'll offer a final line of advice.

Let's have a talk with yourself:

"Ben....Ben...Ben...what am I doing? I'm ruining a place I really enjoy for myself and others.....I'm hurting others who have tried to help me by being honest with me whilst my friends around here all ride my chump telling me all the things I want to hear. I know I'm really not brilliant and great at anything. Why do I say these things and act so mean and heartless to these people? What have they done to me other than they are all better than I am? Sheesh, they don't even have any degrees and they smoke me like a blunt. Why do I rant so incoherantly and try to make them all believe that I'm someone/something that I'm not? I gotta get a grip.

Heck, I can barely type like a human being and lose my way during sentences. If I don't know what I'm trying to say...how can they? This is bad....I've really screwed up this time and I've made myself look bad....AGAIN. Why do I do this? I think I need to stop drinking and blaming the world and others for my short-comings. I need to stop bragging and appreciate life as well as how kind others have been to me even when they said my stuff sounded good. I mean...ok, I sing like Henry the 8th on a vibrato acid trip and most of my songs sound like I was doing Angel Dust....hmm...maybe that's why no one can get my art but me.

I think I was really harsh on James, Danny and Grant. Though I'm not fond of the styles they play, they really do a good job at what they do. A much better job than I do what I do. That wasn't very nice of me. I need to realize and understand that I really do need all the help I can get and those guys really have been helpful to others. I wonder if my attitude was different.....if they would have helped me if I asked them to? Too late for that now...why do I do this....I don't just do it on this forum, I do it in life too! I thought it would be different here...but I'm doing it again...the same things I always do.

Ah, lemme get another drink...no wait...that's partially my reason for being mean and wild. Hmm...maybe this is why my songs come out kinda half done and are loaded with amatuer mistakes and inconsistencies. They sure did sound good when I worked on them drunk...but now that I'm straight and a bit more focused....yeah, I do hear what they hear...wow...they were right. How can I call myself great at mastering....I don't really even know what goes on in an actual mastering session. Not to mention, none of my tunes have really been complete enough to know if mastering would make them better. I can't even mix the right way yet and most of my instrumentation is really lacking from the print stage. Wow...it's all starting to become clear now.

I wonder if my constant boasting and bragging is the reason people may not like me? Ah who cares if they like me or not...I got my degrees and I know so much about....hmmm...what do I know so much about that would really help me to be a better writer, player and get acceptance in this world? Well I know I can rant and flaunt my degrees...I can also complain that no one is hiring me. Hmm...maybe I've never been the best man for the job because as soon as I open my mouth, the potential employers lose interest. Ok, I get it now....I'm so gonna change this....these guys are right....I'm gonna create a new me....you wait and see! Danny...if you can receive subliminal messages...know that I'm sorry...if I get myself together....and change my attitude...would you help me man?"

Maybe Ben, just maybe. We'll cross or burn that bridge when or if we come to it. Until that time, get to work on that rehabilitation. :)

-Danny

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Rain
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/21 09:46:57 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
To whom it may concern. ;)

I remember my college days back in the early 90s after the Oliver Stone movie The Doors just came out.
 
A lot of my fellow literature students buddies drank, smoked, dropped acid, wore leather pants, acted like rebels and wrote crap. But they were still convinced they were the real thing because they emulated Morrison's behavior, tried to read the same book he'd read and talked about indians and shamans. 

Of course, they had it all backwards. You can be a poet and end up being a drunk wearing feathers, but being a drunk wearing feathers doesn't make you a poet. 

I'd say: quit reading and studying biographies and focusing on musicians' lives, emulating their attitude and trying to justify yourself as an artist based on a series of symptoms that you have in common w/ them. Just focus on music.

Mimicking originality is the least original thing one can do. Acting like a musician doesn't make you a musician. It makes you an actor impersonating  someone else's life, at best. Just because a few geniuses were misunderstood during their lifetime doesn't mean that being misunderstood makes you one of them. 


There is no formula for genius and talent and borrowing traits from others certainly won't get you any closer. All the contrary...



TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
Philip
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/21 09:59:25 (permalink)
@Danny, Grant, and James,

I appreciate you more than you know and hope and pray my ego is fragile enough to continue to learn and grow with you.

I'm sorry you 3 suffered some 'confusion' here ... and offer my apologies to the extent that I may have encouraged such confusion, fwiw.

@Ben

All of us are suffering massive crosses and losses. 

All of us are trying to 'put things together'.

It seems (to me) all of us are equally guilty of crucifying each other.

... Brother, we need all the help and love we can get.

Philip  
(Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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offnote
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/21 10:09:52 (permalink)
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/21 10:16:17 (permalink)
Danny - you have a big heart.  unfortunately I think you're probably wasting your time and effort.  I hope I'm wrong, I would like to see him lighten up and become a successful part of the community.

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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/21 10:43:55 (permalink)
I'm really impressed that several didn't go off on you in this thread for your actions. They chose to either be nice to you because they didn't want any confrontation, they felt sorry for you or they looked at your posts...labeled you an attention seeker and closed the thread. 




Yep....I'm sitting this one out.  I told my wife last night, I am all about a low stress Christmas from now until the New Year.

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jamesg1213
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/21 10:56:18 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Rain


To whom it may concern. ;)

I remember my college days back in the early 90s after the Oliver Stone movie The Doors just came out.

A lot of my fellow literature students buddies drank, smoked, dropped acid, wore leather pants, acted like rebels and wrote crap. But they were still convinced they were the real thing because they emulated Morrison's behavior, tried to read the same book he'd read and talked about indians and shamans. 

Of course, they had it all backwards. You can be a poet and end up being a drunk wearing feathers, but being a drunk wearing feathers doesn't make you a poet. 

I'd say: quit reading and studying biographies and focusing on musicians' lives, emulating their attitude and trying to justify yourself as an artist based on a series of symptoms that you have in common w/ them. Just focus on music.

Mimicking originality is the least original thing one can do. Acting like a musician doesn't make you a musician. It makes you an actor impersonating  someone else's life, at best. Just because a few geniuses were misunderstood during their lifetime doesn't mean that being misunderstood makes you one of them. 


There is no formula for genius and talent and borrowing traits from others certainly won't get you any closer. All the contrary...


Nice post Rain.

It reminded me of my college days, when one of my fellow students modelled himself on The Ramones look, right down to the on-stage poses. He was a terrible guitar player.

 
Jyemz
 
 
 



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offnote
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Re:Musical Education? (Composers and Performers Please) 2011/12/21 13:08:07 (permalink)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iITFrcNLcA

We don't need no education  We don’t need no thought control No dark sarcasm in the classroom Teachers leave them kids alone Hey! Teacher! Leave them kids alone! All in all it's just another brick in the wall. All in all you're just another brick in the wall. (A bunch of kids singing) We don't need no education We don’t need no thought control No dark sarcasm in the classroom Teachers leave them kids alone Hey! Teacher! Leave us kids alone! All in all it's just another brick in the wall. All in all you're just another brick in the wall.




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