And from my other thread, I am an audio scientist, this is why I wave my credtials around, people who are amateurs can trust what I say when it comes to technical matter's.  Things like X1 istallation trouble.  Have you read any of that thread??? Ben's Adventures With X1!

I rarely give much more than vauge advice on mixing unless it is asked and you know what it has been asked. 

Man you really have a problem with confident people Danny.

As I say debates are my speciality.

So no I don't hate you or James but I am out of this thread, if you have noticed I have made some useful contibutions to this thread, with my experience of music education.  Did you miss that???

Peace Ben

Ah that's the other problem I see the potential and brag about what I hear in my head, no I am not there yet but what I hear now and understand is way beyond most of the tracks I have posted.

Peace Ben

BenMMusTech


And from my other thread, I am an audio scientist, this is why I wave my credtials around, people who are amateurs can trust what I say when it comes to technical matter's.  Things like X1 istallation trouble.  Have you read any of that thread??? Ben's Adventures With X1!

I rarely give much more than vauge advice on mixing unless it is asked and you know what it has been asked. 

Man you really have a problem with confident people Danny.

As I say debates are my speciality.

So no I don't hate you or James but I am out of this thread, if you have noticed I have made some useful contibutions to this thread, with my experience of music education.  Did you miss that???

Peace Ben

An audio scientist? Read that again. Are you serious man? Ben...man, see, it's all in your wording. For people that are amatuers...yet you aren't? What makes you a pro in the audio field? Nah wait...lol...don't answer that. :)
 
X1 installation trouble is 95% of the time user/pc specific man. As for me having a problem with confident people....I will have to peacefully disagree there. There is a difference between confidence and bragging/assuming you are something that you are not. Here's a scneario for you.
 
Client Question: "So Danny, I know you've been involved in music for a long time. Are you any good at it?"
 
Danny Answer: "Well, I know there are about a billion people that do it better, but honestly...yes, I like to think I'm decent at what I do. I sure do enjoy it and have quite a few others that have enjoyed it as well. But, you be the judge....it's really not for me to say."
 
Same client Question: "So Danny, I know you've been involved in music for a long time. Are you any good at it?"
 
Danny Epic fail answer: Good? I'm brilliant as an artist and composer. I play this that this that and this, and my production and mastering skills are just as brilliant. When I compare my stuff to other peoples material, I like mine 100% better at all times. But people don't understand my art. They just don't get "Art that was created for the heavens." I'm also a Bachelor of Creative Technology, so you know I know my stuff and I'm also a Master of Music Technology....I can go on and on with all my talents really."
 
Client Question 2: "Hey Danny, would you be interested in working with me on this next song? I'll need it mastered. Listen to it and tell me your thoughts?"
 
Danny Answer: "Yeah it's a really good tune...but it has some issues we'll need to address. I can definitely help you fix everything and make this sound like a million bucks, so no worries there. You may have to re-record a few things, but let's try to see what we can salvage first. I'll send you a few charts and will discuss the problem areas with you. This way, we get the song where it needs to be before we master it and you can learn a few cool things as I instruct you on how to fix the mix. If at any time you don't agree with what I say, you do NOT have to take my advice. I offer this service to you free of charge in hopes of making a difference in your material." 
 
Same client question 2: "Hey Danny, would you be interested in working with me on this next song? I'll need it mastered. Listen to it and tell me your thoughts?"
 
Danny Epic fail answer 2: "Well, the song is fair. However, you need to do this that this this and that in order for it to really be in good form. As a matter of fact, listen to this <insert file> and you'll hear how great I am at achieving the correct results."
 
Client Response: "Danny, if I can be honest, you talk a really good ballgame man...but what you sent me doesn't sound very good at all. If this is the kind of services you are giving out, it would probably be in my best interest to go somewhere else. I mean no disrespect, I'm just not fond of this.
 
Danny Epic fail response: "Well, I disagree. I think what I sent you is brilliant and you just don't understand my art. Don't you understand that I am a BCT and I know what I'm doing here? That's fine, go somewhere else but it's your loss for not listening to me because I know this stuff and consider myself great at mastering and others have said this to me also."
 
Can you see the difference between ego and confidence in yourself? These cases are a bit extreme...but that's how you come off to me. I'm proud of you for the creds man. I really am. I know how hard that stuff is to complete and truth be told...I'm a drop-out that just couldn't keep myself focused enough to complete any of it. Dropped out of college because I got offered a job making $800 a week in 1986 which was good bread at the time...sort of regretted it yet enjoyed the money. Tried music school when I owned my own business with my family...so it was easy for me to just up and go to Cali. I dropped out there too because it just wasn't for me. What can I say...I'm a quitter that just wasn't interested. So I know how hard it is to get those creds and I salute you for them.
 
Humor....I can't say that I've read as much humor in some of your postings as you claim. Again, I'm sure there's a good guy in there and a proud one at that. But the way you come off man....just really paints the wrong picture. Yeah I'm with you...I'll stay out of the thread too. I don't want to upset you any more than I have. Just understand it was never my intent.
 
-Danny

FWIW, I completely agree with what Danny is saying here.  It took me about 1/2 hour to READ it all...  But, just to let you know Danny, no, you're not the only one who reads it like that and not the only one who gets tired of hearing Ben's constant bragging about his "creditials."

It's just like the people I meet who tell you what their IQ is.  People who do that kind of bragging turn my stomach and I can't stand to be around them (and I would never hire them!).

Ben I hope you are not angry at me for saying these things, but if you are, I can live with the consequences of my actions.  But I do agree with Danny about everything he's said (and yoyo, also).  you brag like you are the best in the business, but you don't have anything to back it up with.  in that respect, you're just like someone else in this thread who talks trash but has nothing to back it up with.

I personally think that an education is very important (generally speaking).  But it does not qualify you as an expert in any field.  usually there are 2 things that an education does (again, for all education, this is "generally"):

1) allows you to have a degree/certificate which qualifies you for the minimum requirements for certain jobs.  i.e., you can't get a job as an Electrical Engineer without a minimum 4 year degree from an accredited college in Electrical Engineering.  that qualification is not, however, stating that you're an expert.  it states you have the MINIMUM REQUIREMENT for the job.

2) the certificate/degree gives you to the tools to learn how to do the job you're wanting to do.  it does not give you expert status upon graduating.  it gives you a set of tools to use when you begin your journey in the field.  it gives you resources and helps you know where to find information and helps you to draw on the information you've learned in order to start learning the real job when you get there.

I am sorry you have not been able to find a job yet.  I'm sorry the boards have been turning you down for grants.  I'm sorry you hate Christmas.  But dang man, lighten up on those around you!  who knows?  maybe if you stop bragging on yourself so much you might be able to get something started.  and then you can start your journey with music.

going back to the question of musical eduction in specific; I think it can help, but it's not always necessary depending on what you're doing.  most of the industry has a lot of people who are a lot better than me, Danny or anyone else and some of them have degrees, some of them don't.

I have had some formal training in music, but I don't have a degree.  I have had a year's worth of theory in college and several years worth of performance training.  that doesn't make me an expert.  that just helped me to obtain some tools and resources to help me with my songwriting and my performance ability.  and I'm not "there" at all.  I am better for having the training, but it does not by any means dictate how I write or perform - it only "augments" my abilities and gives me help with it.

Please don't take this wrong.  I do like you - I don't like your anger rants about not being able to get a job, about Christmas, and I don't like your bragging on your creds.  lighten up and you'll make more friends and maybe land that perfect job!

jamesyoyo


I was gonna write a fairly heated response to this nonsense, but then I thought, "Man, it's almost Christmas, why bother?"

Merry Christmas, everyone!

Though there is a lot of non-sense, there is some semblance of sense. (I mean, just look at the word non-sense). And it's nice to have a heated debate as it is very cold this time of year - every year! Merry Christmas to you as well!

@Ben, I love you!  I await your next song-joy!

I've heard it said that "Knowledge puffs up but love builds up".
But also, "Father, forgive them, they don't know (AKA, they're clueless idiots apparently)"

I'm a podiatrist with 4 science degrees (Podiatry, Electronic Engineering, Masters Biomedical Science, and BA Psychology) and have been a diplomat in Podiatric Surgery ... and all that ... to trim toenails -- hahahah!  I've turned down hospital invitations for me to join them with full staff privilages ... preferring the nursing homes, where most doctors despise to work.

IOWs, I love academia but count it all trash if I can't have love, revelation, music, art, etc. (iows, 'happiness' -- hahahah!)

I'm no where near the level of Danny and James, both who impress me exceedingly ... who have studied life, love, dialogue, economy, and more important things than academia ... things that relate to music directly.  That is a rare.

Ya, but with some formal education in music, you have the bobbing heads. And you can not beat the bobbing heads!

Nope!

(drummer before current one - maybe worn him out or something)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0kBchZBClE

Danny Danzi

spacealf


(drummer before current one - maybe worn him out or something)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0kBchZBClE

Mmmm now that there....jazz I love. The only thing...why do they use it for "on hold music"? I so love this stuff...thanks for sharing that link spacealf. Always loved that band. Killer prog/jazz with melody and a technical aspect I can actually understand and play myself. :)
 
-Danny

Nothing like "On hold" music! Ever get bummed when someone answers? Gah! Seriously, some of that some is quite catchy - even if it is Top 40! lol

Rus W

Danny Danzi

spacealf


(drummer before current one - maybe worn him out or something)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0kBchZBClE

Mmmm now that there....jazz I love. The only thing...why do they use it for "on hold music"? I so love this stuff...thanks for sharing that link spacealf. Always loved that band. Killer prog/jazz with melody and a technical aspect I can actually understand and play myself. :)

-Danny

Nothing like "On hold" music! Ever get bummed when someone answers? Gah! Seriously, some of that some is quite catchy - even if it is Top 40! lol

OMG Rus...yes, I sometimes wish they didn't pick up even though I've been waiting a half hour. LOL! I remember asking someone one time "can you do me a favor, can ya call your supervisor and ask what station they have playing so I can look up what the last song may have been?" They reply "you're joking, right?" LOL!

Charlie Parker played sax. Saying he played piano is like saying Jimi Hendrix was an expert on mouth organ or something.

Oscar I have to take it, I love this! . But I've never one from him and Joe that I could handle all the way through

I'm a learner forever I make many, peace and Merry Christmas friend. Wow Oscar &Charlie are giving me goose bumps, perhaps I'm completely compromised by Jazz Edit: Oh my Oscar Peterson & Count Basie Oh yea I'm compromised

Ah, I don't know what "on hold" means. It is just smooth jazz, and I sure there are radio stations somewhere. Although they don't play it all the time on the local station here, they do play that kind of jazz, although now they are branching out into Latin kind of music and whatever. I don't listen all that much though.

There is just more Countries in this world than right here in the USA. And I beginning to think they listen to jazz more than any R&Roll although I suppose there is a lot of that also.

I think that was a standard type song there anyway with that Para ti Latino but then I really don't know those either.
Spyro Gyra plays all different type of music in that vein of smooth jazz though. I gave up trying to keep up with every group under the Sun though. Just don't have all that much time and on another forum they play more R&Roll or hard rock with some of them, but then they also hit other varieties of music also.

Regarding the jazz is dead thing I have to admit that with the exception of Jeff Beck (whenever he rolls into town) about the only thing I listen to is jazz and the only concerts I go to are jazz.

I'll tie that into the original topic by saying musical education was grade school through high school trumpet. Guitars came in about mid high school ('65) and I was almost entirely self taught until about 10 years ago when I finally sat down with a jazz guitar intructor for a year or so. He used to quiz me about chord names and when I would answer he would say: "How do you know all that?" and I would reply: "I dunno I just count the intervals..." LOL!

I think a good education is great but in my view creativity happens in the mind - and it can happen equally well with or without a degree.

Just for the record my favorite jazz guitarists are Bill Frissell and Pat Metheny though I do listen to lots of others. Unrelated to all of this is I don't play jazz but some amalgam of everything I grew up listening to.

Regards.

I just put a job application in for a Lecture of Music Technology and in my "Why I wan't the job statement" I sugested as part of a music education, social media skills need's to be taught.

Peace Ben