I agree 100 percent.. a last resort.  But if the other guy is willing to go to that last resort, better him kissing the dirt than me.

Guitarhacker

I have seen arguments that you should carry "loaded in the pipe" safety on.... like the police do. I however have chosen to carry loaded mag...empty pipe, safety on. So I need to unsafety, and rack the slide. It takes longer, but is safer to carry that way. Some say the time is critical and you should always be locked and loaded..... IDK... I figure I have the half second needed to rack it.

Oooookaaay... well, next time I visit NC I'll at least be assured that those carrying guns are at least reasonable in their choices. 

BTW: The police account for more unintentional and negligent discharges that civilians. 
 

 Which reminds me of this video:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAVYFRM5Tl8



 

A small group of frontiersmen with muskets and hunting skills turned back the British army who BTW.... had the settlers vastly outnumbered.... but the skills used by the settlers, aiming and gorilla tactics won the day, and eventually the war and our freedom.

Quaint story again but also untrue.

The decisive battle that defeated the British naval strongholds, as the government wasn't going to finance or send adequate troops for a land war, was won by the French (who had been providing the Colonial settlers with arms and ammunition along with the Spanish and Dutch who also hated us...) at the Chesapeake leading to the ultimate surrender of the British Army at Yorktown.  Sure there were famous battles beforehand from 1775 on where the French armed and supported locals fought valiantly but the British Army presence provided was only ever considered enough to protect Britain's shipping interests most notably the Tea trade.

The surrender at Yorktown led directly to the signing of the Treaty of Paris in 1783 which gave America its sovereignty meanwhile we consolidated our forces at home to counter the real threat of French invasion which had fizzled out by the beginning of the 19th century.

Technically the American war(s) of Independence was probably the first truly 'World War' as the 4  of  biggest world powers at that time the British, Dutch, Spanish and French were all trying to get as big a slice of the 'New World' that they could.

Here's a diagram of the Royal Military Canal that was built at the turn of the 19th century to counter the Napoleonic Threat which behind Offa's Dyke and Hadrians Wall is the third longest defensive works in the country.  Troops were required far more at home than they were across the atlantic at that time which is why the French were keen to make mischief over there...so you'd best thank the French otherwise the plucky locals would have had very little to shoot us with, and a lot more of us to shoot, and you'd have all ended up like....errrmm Canadians...I guess...

btw I live very near to the Western end of the Canal which provides some relaxing fishing waters today.

http://www.royalmilitaryc...images/HomePageMap.jpg

btw we still haven't been successfully invaded since 1066....wanna give it a go?

It's strange because I hated history at school, my interest has only deepened in the last decade especially as the little corner of England that I live in has seen pretty much every conflict this country has ever had.

Yes, thinking about it politicians must hate historians....especially accurate ones...

Spoiling up a good story with facts an' all!

What I wanna know is how this thread got from a punk in a drug-store to a lecture on the Napoleonic wars, little did he know his little outburst would have caused all this...

I always find the PM system to be the avenue of the most mirth...

Sure thing... guns and 'tude.

Sometimes I wear a cowboy hat.

Oh then you would be very curious to learn that there is a noticeable trend.

Women as a *demographic* are being recognized as a significant area of growth  in the domestic sales for both hunting and protection. We've done a few news stories on that. An obvious symptom is the female specific marketing of previously unavailable products. Things like field grade camo gear cut just for women. Holsters and grips or stocks with specific ergonomic features. There is also range fashion like pink fiberglass stocks and nifty shooting glasses.

I see a fair number of women out at the range and they seem to enjoy it.

The fact is, if you are not shooting .22cal it's an expensive hobby. Budget is a big part of who gets to shoot and who doesn't.

If you actually want to shoot accurately you have to have access to a good and consistent supply of ammo. That's a lot harder to do than one might imagine.

When I go out to the range I think of it as doing YOGA. It's a very quiet and personal experience. For me it's about trying to do better each time.

I like to help the new folks with safety and good handling and our range is on the honor system so it's important that everyone is up to speed on range rules and is willing to cooperate with hot and cold periods.

There's lots of different people at the range. It's usually really civilized. Just people having fun.

The feather ruffling is best for when everyone has run out of ammo and heading back to town for a cool drink. :-)

best,
mike

Spaceduck

Guitarhacker

My art of choice is Jujitsu. It is close in and personal. Reviewing this encounter, I might consider switching my carry position. I now alternate between right hip.... convenient, and easily concealed.....however, it could be in the way in a hand to hand encounter..... and middle of the back. also very concealed, but a but harder to retrieve from.

I have toyed with the thought of left front inside the belt. This would be a better location for hand to hand combat, since it is hidden, easy to pull from, easily defended, and still concealed.

I have seen arguments that you should carry "loaded in the pipe" safety on.... like the police do. I however have chosen to carry loaded mag...empty pipe, safety on. So I need to unsafety, and rack the slide. It takes longer, but is safer to carry that way. Some say the time is critical and you should always be locked and loaded..... IDK... I figure I have the half second needed to rack it.

BTW: The police account for more unintentional and negligent discharges that civilians.

Hack, FWIW you've got my vote for being a very resposible gun owner, and I'm glad you're out there with it.

On the subject of unintentional police discharges... let's just say I won't be attending any police seminars on gun safety if I can help it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeGD7r6s-zU

That's a classic.  He ended up sueing the department for mental anguish because of how he was mercilessly teased.

GuitarHacker, you said 'gorilla tactics'! That was funny!
 
BTW, from the footage I've seen, Iraqi seems to have a great number of AKMs among the general population. Didn't stop the US from invading them!
Sven

Jonbouy

btw we still haven't been successfully invaded since 1066....wanna give it a go?

No need to do that Jon, cutting of the electrick and gas will do the trick

Sounds to me like the manager doesn't know how to completely manage the store and you assumed the same thing.

So you decided to help him manage the store because you don't have to call 911 (at the request of the manager because he didn't ask you and you didn't ask if he needed help) and you pack so you're not affraid.

If one packs a gun the odds increase that one will use it. By your actions you decided to put yourself in a situation where the odds increased as you stated you were ready if he (the theif) decided to pull a gun.

So if I imagine the story as it could have gone down....

Theif and store manager having words- customer gets involved-theif gets really mad and pulls a gun- Herb shoots theif.
Herb protected himself and killed a guy that was stealing something cheap and pulled a gun on Herb because he' just a punk theif with a bad mouth.

Not a position I'd want to be in.
I've been in similiar situations so I know what I'd do...what I did was ask the manager if he needed help. No was the answer I got so kept my nose out of it.

Here's another bit of my imagination...

Theif and store manager having words- Herb gets involved-theif gets mad and pulls a gun- Herb pulls a 9mm and shoots the theif in body (9mm bullet travels very fast and goes right through the guy but doesn't take him down) theif pulls .357 out blows Herb down the isle deader than hell.

Again- just another situation I wouldn't want to be in.

Herb If I wanted to get involved I would have simply asked the manager if he needed help and if so I would have called 911.

The only thing I've read here is your post so my opinion is not influenced by others here, it's just the way I see it.
I'm not saying you did anything right or wrong. I'm not judging you or your actions.
I'm saying I'd do things differently and have in the past.

Granted I don't know if hollow points are legal were you live. If not...

mike_mccue


Oh then you would be very curious to learn that there is a noticeable trend.

Women as a *demographic* are being recognized as a significant area of growth  in the domestic sales for both hunting and protection. We've done a few news stories on that. An obvious symptom is the female specific marketing of previously unavailable products. Things like field grade camo gear cut just for women. Holsters and grips or stocks with specific ergonomic features. There is also range fashion like pink fiberglass stocks and nifty shooting glasses.

I see a fair number of women out at the range and they seem to enjoy it.

The fact is, if you are not shooting .22cal it's an expensive hobby. Budget is a big part of who gets to shoot and who doesn't.

If you actually want to shoot accurately you have to have access to a good and consistent supply of ammo. That's a lot harder to do than one might imagine.

When I go out to the range I think of it as doing YOGA. It's a very quiet and personal experience. For me it's about trying to do better each time.

I like to help the new folks with safety and good handling and our range is on the honor system so it's important that everyone is up to speed on range rules and is willing to cooperate with hot and cold periods.

There's lots of different people at the range. It's usually really civilized. Just people having fun.

The feather ruffling is best for when everyone has run out of ammo and heading back to town for a cool drink. :-)

best,
mike

You know what bothers me is the propensity of gun dealers to think the little miss can't handle a big bore gun. I've been shopping around for another P14-45 for the little lady. She likes the way my carry gun is set up and wants one set up similarly except with a laser sight.

The various gun shops I've gone to locally with and without the wife all say it's too much gun for her. Not! She consistently places 3 inch groups at 50 yards with my 45. I just can't understand this thing about a handgun having too much power for a woman. If the gun has a properly tuned recoil spring and trigger pull there is no such thing as too much gun.

I would much rather have my wife using a similar gun so that there is no question to it's operation (or response) when she needs to pick it up for any reason. My luck would be to be put in a situation where I only had access to her gun and it would be different. Not a good situation under stress.

57Gregy


In North Carolina, we have a Good Samaritan law requiring us to get involved. Of course, that usually means calling the police.
Also, of course, most people ignore that law.
 
Spacey, I assume you meant .357 Magnum, since 9 mm is .357 inches. Again, .

That's right Greg. And I knew I was opening the door for that "best" caliber debate. But maybe we can all agree that the .357M is still the one shot stop pistol without "splitting hairs".
 
I'm curious, I thought the good samaritan law in states, that have it, was to protect people from prosecution should they try to help. I didn't know it made requirements of citizens.

And FYI I have traced my family lineage back to the Norman invasion... so you and I are either long lost cousins, or we have a little score to settle... one or the other..

Me too and I was 'them', in fact just like the Duke of Normandie of yore I have often been referred to as the Ba$%ard.  But where did 'they' come from?

Sure 'we' belongs in a urinal but you will see it is appropriate here my name is 'Jon'...

bdickens


The "one shot stop" is a dangerous myth.

I knew after posting that it was opening a wormhole for opinions. As I stated previously...and here they come.
 
Believe what you want. Carry what you want.
 
Placement of the shot by the qualified marksman is the deadliest no account for caliber.