My Morning...and a punk...

Well, what a morning I had....

It started off kinda slow.... slept in till 8.... needed to get moving and get to the job site and do some work..... stopped in a convenient mart...coffee and sugar for breakfast..... then I remembered, I had forgotten my deodorant and I really probably needed to get some and apply it before starting work..... so I plugged in the closest drug store on my Garmin.

In the drug store I overhear the manager tell some slime ball in the next aisle, to put back what he just put in his pocket.... the punk was caught red handed shoplifting..... how dumb can you get.... well in his case.....

So I head toward the front to pay for my purchase figuring the manager has the situation under control..... but it turns out he didin't have it under control..... obvious from the language the punk was using.... any way, we all kinda met in the front aisle..... since there was no one else there with the manager, I stopped, turned around to face them both, and stood ready to respond if the punk decided to get "froggy" and jump the manager, or pull a weapon...( I had my 9mm on me concealed at the time....and since he did not represent a dangerous threat or display a weapon, I restrained myself and kept it concealed, but ready).... after listening to this punks verbal filth and abuse.... the manager was telling him to leave the store...... I decided to come to the manager's aid. I told the punk I had heard enough and it was time for him to leave..... well he turns his verbal attack to me.... like I said... he wasn't very smart. He did start heading towards the door seeing that he was out numbered now that I was involved too. He headed out the door still spewing verbal filth. I stepped out the door to get his tag number but the manager asked me to let him go..... I asked did he want a tag number...he said no...let him go..... so I did.....

After this event I thought of a number of ways I could have responded better...(dialing 911 on my cell on speaker...using the cell camera to take his pic..... but I'm thinking those responses might have accelerated the conflict to a violent level) but... in the end it wasn't my battle.......no body was injured and I didn't have to pull my weapon and shoot the punk..... so I consider that a good morning.

What do you think..... what would you have done?

Folks can become pretty dangerous when pumped up on crystal meth.

I'm an ex-Marine, so I might have confronted him and gotten my face smashed in.

If my wits were intact (which they usually aren't), I might have foolishly tried to dance with him out-back ... after I copied his plate.  If he got wild, pictures, 911, your revolver(?), etc.

But, as a store owner, I'd be afraid of the aftermath of any punk (and his kin).  Hence, methinks you did the best.

I'm from the UK so this might sound like a daft question - what's a tag number?

Aaah! Now it makes sense!

A foul mouthed punk going wild up in North Carolina?

Was it this guy?:

No. It is neither disturbing nor unusual. Actually quite common in the free world.

guitardog247


So nobody finds it disturbing or unusual that Hacker is packing a concealed 9mm?

Or, is he a cop?

Uh oh.... this thread is officially about to go downhill in 3... 2... 1...
 
Seriously, to answer your question directly: no, it is neither disturbing nor unusual, to me. I grew up and currently live in the northeast, and I think carrying is certainly much more prevelant in other parts of the country, particularly the south.
 
However, I did grow up hunting and fishing in the sticks of VT, have (consequently) fired guns, have a respect for guns, etc., (not to mention barbed fish hooks), but will probably never ever own another gun for the rest of my life beyond that .22 lever action I owned when I was 12.
 
That being said, I don't find it odd, necessarily, when I find out that somebody that I know does own a gun, or I see somebody carrying a gun.
 
I do worry about 3 things, however:
 
1.) Those that do own guns that have an intent to do harm to me, my family, or anyone else for that matter
 
2.) Those that do own guns that have no intention to harm someone else, but really have no business owning a gun -- can you spell "P-l-a-x-i-c-o B-u-r-r-e-s-s"? Or persons who aren't careful about locking up firearms and somebody's kid dies is another thing bugs me...
 
3.) Those that have drivers licenses that have no business driving a car, because, let's face it, they're just really bad drivers and put others on the road in imminent danger
 
(and I can say that in the northeast we do have lots of the latter)

Well, I never said I was disturbed. I was just asking. Seems like it is perfectly fine for a "normal", law-abiding, sane individual.

I know it's OK to shoot an intruder in your home, if you feel your life is threatened. I don't know about the law in NC however, for pulling a weapon on a stranger in the convienence store. I imagine it's OK under certain circumstances. But I really have no idea. We have the right to bear arms or something like that. But I"ve heard of concealed weapon laws.

guitardog247

I know it's OK to shoot an intruder in your home, if you feel your life is threatened.
 

Actually, in those cases the home owner often has a lot of splainin' to do... and often gets in a lot of trouble, e.g. if there is no imminent danger of injury or loss of life, etc. (i.e., self defense is debatable).  But that also applies to non-gun situations -- I remember years ago in Florida or something where a burglar was electrocuted by some sort of booby trap, and the home owner was charged with manslaughter or something...

 
I don't know about the law in NC however, for pulling a weapon on a stranger in the convienence store. I imagine it's OK under certain circumstances.
 

Hmmm... generally frowned upon.... unless somebody's grabbing the last package of twizzlers or something...

guitardog247


So nobody finds it disturbing or unusual that Hacker is packing a concealed 9mm?

Or, is he a cop?

No.  It actually warms my heart.  Evil needs to be confronted, not ignored.  People who carry concealed weapons legally are statistically the least likely  to be involved in any time of crime and are typically *extremely* knowledgeable about firearm laws and the use of deadly force.

keith

guitardog247

I know it's OK to shoot an intruder in your home, if you feel your life is threatened.
 

Actually, in those cases the home owner often has a lot of splainin' to do... and often gets in a lot of trouble, e.g. if there is no imminent danger of injury or loss of life, etc. (i.e., self defense is debatable).  But that also applies to non-gun situations -- I remember years ago in Florida or something where a burglar was electrocuted by some sort of booby trap, and the home owner was charged with manslaughter or something...

I actually know a good bit about deadly force laws(I won't get into why).

Booby trapping is a totally different category because it is not a *volitional act* by the defender.    In most states you have a the right to defend your life with deadly force in your own home, no question.  The *good* states like Texas respect the sovereignty of your domicile and you can shoot someone intruding on your property for just about any reason.

More on use of deadly force:

http://definitions.uslega...u/use-of-deadly-force/

"The use of force is generally illegal unless it fits within the strict requirements of one of the four legal justifications. They are: self-defense, defense of a third person, crime prevention, and law enforcement. Each of these areas has specific requirements that must be met to avoid criminal liability. You may only use the amount of force that is reasonable and necessary in the situation.. This is judged by what a reasonable person would have done under the circumstances. In a self-defense situation, it is only when the aggressor uses or attempts to use deadly force that you have the right to respond with deadly force. Laws vary by state, so local law should be consulted for the applicable requirements in your area."

More on the "Castle Doctrine":   http://en.wikipedia.org/w...e_in_the_United_States

State laws vary...check if your state is a "duty to retreat" or "stand your ground" state.

The Kiosk Project

AndyW

guitardog247


So nobody finds it disturbing or unusual that Hacker is packing a concealed 9mm?

Or, is he a cop?

No.  It actually warms my heart.  Evil needs to be confronted, not ignored.  People who carry concealed weapons legally are statistically the least likely  to be involved in any time of crime and are typically *extremely* knowledgeable about firearm laws and the use of deadly force.
 
Can anyone guarantee that Andy?


I know this isn't a surprise to you but there are no guarantees in life. The stats are there supporting my statement(as well as common sense if you think about it).  I'll put it this way, given the choice, I would rather be in a room full of 100 CCW carriers than 100 who were a cross-section of the general populace.  I would want my wife and kids there too.

Here are some stats for Texas:

http://www.examiner.com/x...nger-or-Asset-to-Texas

The most important sentence IMO:  "Overall, CHLs are over 9 times more law-abiding than the non-licensee population, and non-licensees are over 10 times as likely to commit a major FBI violent crime (murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault)."

Grrr...I hate this forum softwares formatting...I tried to fix the quotes and only made it worse....I give up!

mgh


what is interesting is that no american would have a clue how far 500km was, but they know the difference between 9mm and a .45.....lol

i'm very glad i live in a largely gun-free society.

And that is your choice.  I am glad I live in a society that has a constitutional guarantee of my right to defend myself and my family.  Many of us Yanks would prefer to have a gun and never need it, then to need it and not have it. 


Edited because I missed the word "largely" in mgh's post. 

bdickens


Imagine a world without guns. It isn't hard to do:

http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel120501.shtml

I am posting this salient quote from the link for those who didn't want to follow the well-thought out logic of this article:

"To imagine a world with no guns is to imagine a world in which the strong rule the weak, in which women are dominated by men, and in which minorities are easily abused or mass-murdered by majorities. Practically speaking, a firearm is the only weapon that allows a weaker person to defend himself from a larger, stronger group of attackers, and to do so at a distance. As George Orwell observed, a weapon like a rifle "gives claws to the weak.""

I live in a town where guys are likely to go out at night, get drunk and then aggrivated to the point where they start physically hurting others. Occasionally someone gets beaten to death. If we were to throw a few guns into the picture I would expect things to get uglier.

I've been in a few situations in my life where I expect I'd get done in had my adversary carried a gun. Heck, I've even been in one or two situations where I might have killed someone had I had a gun.

Regardless of what statistics might say, I don't want to live in a society where I must trust each and every person I encounter to be responsible enough not to shoot me in the face.

Sven