Helpful ReplyNext update SONAR X2B...when...x64bit VS 32bit.. the future of Cakewalk?

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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 22:09:33 (permalink)
17th of march.. AND Boston ? surely a lot of the city will be closed down pretty much ;-)

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stevec
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/19 22:13:39 (permalink)
17th of march.. AND Boston ? surely a lot of the city will be closed down pretty much ;-)

 
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#92
JonD
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 00:35:27 (permalink)
guitardood


JonD


guitardood


 
Personally, I do believe that the whole move to 64-bit is hype.  From a DAW perspective.  Does anyone really have any projects, "without memory-starved soft synths", require more than 2gb of RAM?  As a programmer, I would find that very hard to believe.  This is the reason I asked the question the other day about being able to run BFD2 or Machfive 64-bit versions under 32-bit Sonar.  Would get rid of the whole flaky bit-bridge on 90% of my plugins and allow my two memory pigs to operate in 64-bit (found out this is possible with jbridge but haven't tried yet).


I mean seriously.  I had multiple 75+ track projects using tons of both native and UAD plugs and NEVER ran out of memory under Sonar 7.


Best,
 
Huh?  You just gave yourself as a contradiction to your own argument...

Why do "you" need BFD2 and Machfive in 64-bit versions?  Answer honestly, and you'll have the answer to the question why others need their "Memory-starved soft synths" too. (You "need" your BFD2 and MachFive. Others "need" their Omnisphere. Kontakt, etc...).

Given that, how is it all hype?   (I honestly don't get your point).



After typing 12 responses that were in ALL*CAPS, I decided to try and mind my tone.  My whole point was that Sonar, in and of itself, is an extremely streamlined application that, in and of itself, has no direct need for 64-bit.  Neither do EQ's or Compressors or delays or gates or even the 20-40%-Better-Super-Deluxe convolution reverb of the week.

The only need for 64-bit, IN A DAW APPLICATION AS STREAMLINED AS SONAR, is for the memory-starved synths.   Can anyone possible disagree with that statement and keep a straight face?   My point is that is the ONLY reason for needing 64-bit.   And pardon my forgetfulness as I was only coding assembler instructions yesterday, if you can dig up some x86-64 specific op-codes that do some special special 64-bit voodoo that no other programmer is aware of when the processor is in 64-bit mode other than the ability to access more memory, I'l eat every computer in my office (talk about when good sentences go bad).

The bit-bridge solution has caused quite a few crashes, FOR ME.  So ME-MYSELF-AND-I don't like it!  I have plugs for which I paid good money that are rendered useless by bit-bridge bugs.  My point was that the jbridge solution allows the 64-bit synths to be 64-bit  and use all the memory that you can throw at them, without the requirement that every-freaking-thing else in my DAW system be 64-bit as well, or glued together with the bit-bridge solution which has turned my monitor a lovely shade of white glow on more than a couple occasions, in the middle of a creative spurt.  If it works for you, wonderful!!!


I believe that a lot of people are believing that their 64-bit low-memory-usage-apps are running better, only because the overly-bloated Windows receives the most benefit from it being in 64-bit and that if you were to subjectively benchmark the same apps 32-bit-version-vs-64-bit-version there would actually be NO DIFFERENCE in performance.  But I've only been programming for 30 years, what do I know about these complex bit-banging-fluter-hickies?

It would be nice, however, if you could limit your personal attacks to yourself.


Best,
 
Wow.  I asked you this because I wasn't clear on what you were arguing. 
 
Personal attack?  Certainly not my intent.  My apologies, if you felt that way.
 
It seems bad moods abound here lately.  Time for me to take a break from this place for awhile.

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#93
guitardood
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 00:58:39 (permalink)
JonD


guitardood


JonD


guitardood


 
Personally, I do believe that the whole move to 64-bit is hype.  From a DAW perspective.  Does anyone really have any projects, "without memory-starved soft synths", require more than 2gb of RAM?  As a programmer, I would find that very hard to believe.  This is the reason I asked the question the other day about being able to run BFD2 or Machfive 64-bit versions under 32-bit Sonar.  Would get rid of the whole flaky bit-bridge on 90% of my plugins and allow my two memory pigs to operate in 64-bit (found out this is possible with jbridge but haven't tried yet).


I mean seriously.  I had multiple 75+ track projects using tons of both native and UAD plugs and NEVER ran out of memory under Sonar 7.


Best,
 
Huh?  You just gave yourself as a contradiction to your own argument...

Why do "you" need BFD2 and Machfive in 64-bit versions?  Answer honestly, and you'll have the answer to the question why others need their "Memory-starved soft synths" too. (You "need" your BFD2 and MachFive. Others "need" their Omnisphere. Kontakt, etc...).

Given that, how is it all hype?   (I honestly don't get your point).



After typing 12 responses that were in ALL*CAPS, I decided to try and mind my tone.  My whole point was that Sonar, in and of itself, is an extremely streamlined application that, in and of itself, has no direct need for 64-bit.  Neither do EQ's or Compressors or delays or gates or even the 20-40%-Better-Super-Deluxe convolution reverb of the week.

The only need for 64-bit, IN A DAW APPLICATION AS STREAMLINED AS SONAR, is for the memory-starved synths.   Can anyone possible disagree with that statement and keep a straight face?   My point is that is the ONLY reason for needing 64-bit.   And pardon my forgetfulness as I was only coding assembler instructions yesterday, if you can dig up some x86-64 specific op-codes that do some special special 64-bit voodoo that no other programmer is aware of when the processor is in 64-bit mode other than the ability to access more memory, I'l eat every computer in my office (talk about when good sentences go bad).

The bit-bridge solution has caused quite a few crashes, FOR ME.  So ME-MYSELF-AND-I don't like it!  I have plugs for which I paid good money that are rendered useless by bit-bridge bugs.  My point was that the jbridge solution allows the 64-bit synths to be 64-bit  and use all the memory that you can throw at them, without the requirement that every-freaking-thing else in my DAW system be 64-bit as well, or glued together with the bit-bridge solution which has turned my monitor a lovely shade of white glow on more than a couple occasions, in the middle of a creative spurt.  If it works for you, wonderful!!!


I believe that a lot of people are believing that their 64-bit low-memory-usage-apps are running better, only because the overly-bloated Windows receives the most benefit from it being in 64-bit and that if you were to subjectively benchmark the same apps 32-bit-version-vs-64-bit-version there would actually be NO DIFFERENCE in performance.  But I've only been programming for 30 years, what do I know about these complex bit-banging-fluter-hickies?

It would be nice, however, if you could limit your personal attacks to yourself.


Best,
 
Wow.  I asked you this because I wasn't clear on what you were arguing. 
 
Personal attack?  Certainly not my intent.  My apologies, if you felt that way.
 
It seems bad moods abound here lately.  Time for me to take a break from this place for awhile.

No worries.  I'm very sorry as well.  My fuse has been a bit short and I probably read too much emotion in your post and probably over reacted.


Again, Very Sorry.
Best,




Best,
Guitardood 

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#94
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 04:48:23 (permalink)
guitardood


Freddie H


Bub


Freddie H

Pro Tools HD - a DAW that has lived under a rock the last 15 years.... Only DAW that only works on Windows 95 and XP32. Only DAW on the market that are still in x32bit only 2013 and have no new technology functions and totally outdated.
The latest features were non destructible faders and record and working with 32 bit files? All other DAW has had that since the late 90ths.
today you can't find any functions that Pro Tools do better then other DAW. Actually it's the opposite. all other DAWs do it 10 times better.
It just goes to show what kind of damage marketing hype can do. Referring to the whole 64-bit debacle.

So 64bit is a "hype" to you?
....Bub...this is just getting worse.. 
 
Personally, I do believe that the whole move to 64-bit is hype.  From a DAW perspective.  Does anyone really have any projects, "without memory-starved soft synths", require more than 2gb of RAM?  As a programmer, I would find that very hard to believe.  This is the reason I asked the question the other day about being able to run BFD2 or Machfive 64-bit versions under 32-bit Sonar.  Would get rid of the whole flaky bit-bridge on 90% of my plugins and allow my two memory pigs to operate in 64-bit (found out this is possible with jbridge but haven't tried yet).


I mean seriously.  I had multiple 75+ track projects using tons of both native and UAD plugs and NEVER ran out of memory under Sonar 7.


Best,


Yes.

I run EWQLSO Platinum and loading any more than about 14 instruments / 20 or so articulations and that was the limit for a 32 bit system.

on 64 bit I can load 50 instruments, about 100 different articulations and my RAM usage is about 9Gb

CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
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#95
guitardood
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 05:46:04 (permalink)
Bristol_Jonesey


guitardood


Freddie H


Bub


Freddie H

Pro Tools HD - a DAW that has lived under a rock the last 15 years.... Only DAW that only works on Windows 95 and XP32. Only DAW on the market that are still in x32bit only 2013 and have no new technology functions and totally outdated.
The latest features were non destructible faders and record and working with 32 bit files? All other DAW has had that since the late 90ths.
today you can't find any functions that Pro Tools do better then other DAW. Actually it's the opposite. all other DAWs do it 10 times better.
It just goes to show what kind of damage marketing hype can do. Referring to the whole 64-bit debacle.

So 64bit is a "hype" to you?
....Bub...this is just getting worse.. 

Personally, I do believe that the whole move to 64-bit is hype.  From a DAW perspective.  Does anyone really have any projects, "without memory-starved soft synths", require more than 2gb of RAM?  As a programmer, I would find that very hard to believe.  This is the reason I asked the question the other day about being able to run BFD2 or Machfive 64-bit versions under 32-bit Sonar.  Would get rid of the whole flaky bit-bridge on 90% of my plugins and allow my two memory pigs to operate in 64-bit (found out this is possible with jbridge but haven't tried yet).


I mean seriously.  I had multiple 75+ track projects using tons of both native and UAD plugs and NEVER ran out of memory under Sonar 7.


Best,


Yes.

I run EWQLSO Platinum and loading any more than about 14 instruments / 20 or so articulations and that was the limit for a 32 bit system.

on 64 bit I can load 50 instruments, about 100 different articulations and my RAM usage is about 9Gb

@bristol_jonesey: My statement you quoted above had the caveat of:"Without Memory-Starved-SoftSynths".  Isn't EWQLSO, specifically, a memory-starved-soft-synth?  Sonar isn't using 9gb, EWQLSO is probably using somewhere between 6-8gb.  It may look as though Sonar is using that ram because of the way DLLs get loaded, but I can assure you that Sonar is more than likely only using about 20% of that for everything else other than the Orchestra synth.


Best,




Best,
Guitardood 

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#96
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 06:09:23 (permalink)
Point is, I could not run it in a 32 bit system.

It would fall over before a quarter of the artics were loaded

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#97
Freddie H
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 06:46:44 (permalink)
Bub



 
Freddie, I think your a great guy ... but if you're really going to sit here and argue about Pro Tools up against a billion dollar studio ... and put it at #20 on your list of DAW's ... well, I think there's no more point in talking about it with you anymore. You're never going to see the forest through the trees.

Thanks,

Bub.
I see the forest and the trees alright!
I have countless of hours behind Pro Tools HD in other studios. I first come in contact with it in 90ths when it was more less a “standard” but not today.

 
Today, many that has never used it or know it, has buy into the big “hype” of a wonder magical DAW that can do all kinds of things and other magical stuff that other DAW s can’t. This can’t be more far from the true. In fact Pro Tools has less functions and less capability the other average DAW: s on the market. Pro Tools are years behind, just facing it; it’s just the naked truth. It don’t even run and work to satisfaction on Windows 7 x64 yet even if it's only x32bit program limit to 3GB RAM? By the way the only DAW program that still is x32bit in 2013. Very “PRO”…not.
 
The other myth that going around is that “ALL PROS” use it and all the biggest studios too! Not true either. 90% has dropped it already and moved to other modern platforms like Cubase, Logic, Samplitude, Sonar that do have x64bit support , Surround 5.1. and other functions. Pro Tools don’t even have 5.1 supports or sync to video.
 
 
 
It’s true that some “icons” still use Pro Tools like Dave Pensado that is by the way a very kind and nice man in person. But if you ask Dave why he still use Pro Tools, it’s not because of it’s the greatest DAW program out there on the planet. He knows all the weaknesses too. No, it’s because he uses audio 99% and has not the strengths to learn something better right now. But if it comes to it, he will do that too.

 
 
So let’s imagine Pro Tools had x64bit today and it worked all fine Windows 7 or 8 x64. Still it would be 10 years behind when it comes to simple functions working with Audio or MIDI inside the DAW.    
I like you too Bub! Have a great one!


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#98
Splat
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 06:52:21 (permalink)
Er guitar dood with all due respect you seem to think you are the only developer here. I own a copy of visual studio too and my degree is in computer science. That doesn't make me a know it all or qualify me to judge what you know or do not know. Nothing I said was incorrect in my last statement. You merely expanded it but again neglected to mention that actually some operations and subroutines (not just registers etc) are specifically optimized for 64 bit code. In a lot of instances some of the assembled code can be far more efficient. 64 bit compilers are different to 32 bit compilers. End of.

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#99
Freddie H
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 06:59:41 (permalink)
@ Guitardood

If you are a programmer as you say that you are, I don’t need to explain all the seatbacks when it comes to x32bit calculations. You should know that already. All CPU Memory and chips are in x64bit today so it needs to convert all x32bit calculations to be feed into the binary stream. Takes time and resources.
 
Funny that you say all LOVE about 32bit? All my friends that are programmers are the opposite to you? Love x64bit and actually talk all the benefits about 128bit DSP calculations.


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Freddie H
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 07:01:45 (permalink)
CakeAlexS

 Nothing I said was incorrect in my last statement. You merely expanded it but again neglected to mention that actually some operations and subroutines (not just registers etc) are specifically optimized for 64 bit code. In a lot of instances some of the assembled code can be far more efficient. 64 bit compilers are different to 32 bit compilers. End of.


+1


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guitardood
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 07:13:52 (permalink)
Freddie H


@ Guitardood

If you are a programmer as you say that you are, I don’t need to explain all the seatbacks when it comes to x32bit calculations. You should know that already. All CPU Memory and chips are in x64bit today so it needs to convert all x32bit calculations to be feed into the binary stream. Takes time and resources.
 
Funny that you say all LOVE about 32bit? All my friends that are programmers are the opposite to you? Love x64bit and actually talk all the benefits about 128bit DSP calculations.

As a programmer, I absolutely love 64-bit.  Nice to not have to jump thru hoops swapping code in and out to accommodate memory limitations.


My only point is that the DAW and typical FX plugs do not have the need for 64-bit and that it is the memory-hungry soft-synths/samplers which require the tremendous amounts of ram.  Jesus Christ......doesn't anybody read a post before responding with such vitriol?

Best,



Best,
Guitardood 

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Freddie H
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 07:17:39 (permalink)
guitardood


Freddie H


@ Guitardood

If you are a programmer as you say that you are, I don’t need to explain all the seatbacks when it comes to x32bit calculations. You should know that already. All CPU Memory and chips are in x64bit today so it needs to convert all x32bit calculations to be feed into the binary stream. Takes time and resources.
 
Funny that you say all LOVE about 32bit? All my friends that are programmers are the opposite to you? Love x64bit and actually talk all the benefits about 128bit DSP calculations.

As a programmer, I absolutely love 64-bit.  Nice to not have to jump thru hoops swapping code in and out to accommodate memory limitations.


My only point is that the DAW and typical FX plugs do not have the need for 64-bit and that it is the memory-hungry soft-synths/samplers which require the tremendous amounts of ram.  Jesus Christ......doesn't anybody read a post before responding with such vitriol?

Best,

Aha I see your point, but that is of compatibility point because the DAWs are in x64bit.
No one want to use bitbridge there for x64bit format.


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
Freddie H
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 07:25:18 (permalink)
guitardood



 
Personally, I do believe that the whole move to 64-bit is hype.  From a DAW perspective.  Does anyone really have any projects, "without memory-starved soft synths", require more than 2gb of RAM?  As a programmer, I would find that very hard to believe.  This is the reason I asked the question the other day about being able to run BFD2 or Machfive 64-bit versions under 32-bit Sonar.  Would get rid of the whole flaky bit-bridge on 90% of my plugins and allow my two memory pigs to operate in 64-bit (found out this is possible with jbridge but haven't tried yet).


I mean seriously.  I had multiple 75+ track projects using tons of both native and UAD plugs and NEVER ran out of memory under Sonar 7.


Best,
Who isn’t using software’s in there production these days?
I get it that you are more into old school guitar “Audio and recording” guy. Sure I see that you don’t see the need of 64bit so much, the only benefits are smoother experience and stable system, recording audio.

 
But most of us use software's and work with digital productions today. Not just A Kick, Snare, a bell & Banjo.  
  
 
If you take a guy like me that use 90% software’s and also many audio tracks with FXs, Vocal dumped Kontakt instruments and Omnisphere, Vienna strings, +100 tracks audio and midi, use tons of plugins, use outboard into the DAW, digital productions, recording mostly only Vocals.
Working with modern POP and Electronic music and film tracks. Working sometimes with TV and film projects etc too..
 
To me X64bit is essential!


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 07:27:48 (permalink)
A 32 v 64 bit debate raging! Its like we jumped back to when I first joined the forum in 2009.

That was the time I got my first 64 bit system, and I have just taken delivery of its replacement.

I have used 64 bit Sonar exclusively since the release on 8.5, There are only a few 32 bit plugs I now use regularly and none of which give me any issues in Bitbridge, one by one they are being updated. I may occasionally fire up Kitcore for which I need JBridge.

I do use Kontakt and Superior Drummer a lot and really appreciate the extra memory available. I have 10 times more available than I would on a 32 Bit system. Going back seem inconceivable.

Having said that if you are mostly working with audio and you have a lot of 32 bit plugins that can't be upgraded, or you can't afford to up grade using Sonar 32 bit is a valid option.  I would still use a 64 bit OS.

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TS
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 08:35:17 (permalink)

Please, Mr CW, give us the X2b, for us to be busy

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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 08:42:21 (permalink)
CakeAlexS


Er guitar dood with all due respect you seem to think you are the only developer here. I own a copy of visual studio too and my degree is in computer science. That doesn't make me a know it all or qualify me to judge what you know or do not know. Nothing I said was incorrect in my last statement. You merely expanded it but again neglected to mention that actually some operations and subroutines (not just registers etc) are specifically optimized for 64 bit code. In a lot of instances some of the assembled code can be far more efficient. 64 bit compilers are different to 32 bit compilers. End of.

Wrong sir!

First, my comment was directed at your statement that "64-bit compilers are different than 32-bit compilers".  This implication that 64-bit code is generated with a different compiler than the 32-bit is a patently false statement.  Most modern compilers have switches that turn on certain optimizations depending on the mode, but is not separate compilers for the different modes.


Secondly, being a casual or even advanced programmer in Visual Studio does not necessarily equate to intimate knowledge of the CPU's machine language, in which all compiled languages eventually get translated.  One of my original classes in computer science (1981) entailed the instructor giving us a cardboard CPU simulator.  It had a sliding piece of cardboard for the accumulator, a sliding piece of cardboard for the register and yet another sliding piece of cardboard for the stack.  Our task was essentially to "be the one-operations-per-minute CPU" and execute the machine language instructions, in binary I might add.  Most of my classmates at the time could not even get past the binary math and the decimal-to-binary conversions let alone understand pushing and popping (EDIT) a stack.  One of my first professional projects entailed writing assembly language interfaces between the high-level Informix 4GL (which compiled to 'C', which compiled to assembler, which compiled to machine code) and Allen-Bradley PLCs (ladder-logic) for a Westinghouse Job Costing system we were developing.  So when it comes to CPU logic and machine code, I'm quite versed.  Not necessarily a know-it-all, but definitely a have-forgotten-more-than-some-will-ever-know.  But, I digress.

To further illustrate my point, here's an example for you:
Note: all created with a single version of the GNU C compiler, specifically: i686-apple-darwin11-llvm-gcc-4.2 (GCC) 4.2.1  This is pretty much the compiler being used on 85% of the non-Microsoft platforms and about 98% of non-Microsoft embedded systems.


helloworld.c


#include <stdio.h>
char *main(int argc,char *argv[])
{
     printf("Hello World\n");
}




Here's the 23-line i386 (32-bit) Assembler that the C compiler creates:
helloworld_i386.s


        .section        __TEXT,__text,regular,pure_instructions
        .globl        _main
        .align        4, 0x90
_main:
        pushl        %ebp
        movl        %esp, %ebp
        subl        $8, %esp
        call        L1$pb
L1$pb:
        popl        %eax
        leal        L_.str-L1$pb(%eax), %eax
        movl        %eax, (%esp)
        call        _puts
        addl        $8, %esp
        popl        %ebp
        ret

        .section        __TEXT,__cstring,cstring_literals
L_.str:
        .asciz         "Hello World"


.subsections_via_symbols



Here's the 69-line x86_64 (64-bit) Assembler source:
helloworld_x86_64.s


        .section        __TEXT,__text,regular,pure_instructions
        .globl        _main
        .align        4, 0x90
_main:
Leh_func_begin1:
        pushq        %rbp
Ltmp0:
        movq        %rsp, %rbp
Ltmp1:
        leaq        L_.str(%rip), %rdi
        popq        %rbp
        jmp        _puts  # TAILCALL
Leh_func_end1:

        .section        __TEXT,__cstring,cstring_literals
L_.str:
        .asciz         "Hello World"

        .section        __TEXT,__eh_frame,coalesced,no_toc+strip_static_syms+live_support
EH_frame0:
Lsection_eh_frame:
Leh_frame_common:
Lset0 = Leh_frame_common_end-Leh_frame_common_begin
        .long        Lset0
Leh_frame_common_begin:
        .long        0
        .byte        1
        .asciz         "zR"
        .byte        1
        .byte        120
        .byte        16
        .byte        1
        .byte        16
        .byte        12
        .byte        7
        .byte        8
        .byte        144
        .byte        1
        .align        3
Leh_frame_common_end:
        .globl        _main.eh
_main.eh:
Lset1 = Leh_frame_end1-Leh_frame_begin1
        .long        Lset1
Leh_frame_begin1:
Lset2 = Leh_frame_begin1-Leh_frame_common
        .long        Lset2
Ltmp2:
        .quad        Leh_func_begin1-Ltmp2
Lset3 = Leh_func_end1-Leh_func_begin1
        .quad        Lset3
        .byte        0
        .byte        4
Lset4 = Ltmp0-Leh_func_begin1
        .long        Lset4
        .byte        14
        .byte        16
        .byte        134
        .byte        2
        .byte        4
Lset5 = Ltmp1-Ltmp0
        .long        Lset5
        .byte        13
        .byte        6
        .align        3
Leh_frame_end1:


.subsections_via_symbols



Perhaps you could share how the 69-line 64-bit assembler code is more optimized than the 23-line 32-bit code, because I certainly don't see it.  The binary versions had a difference of 44 bytes, with the 64-bit version being the larger at 8688 bytes.

Upon runtime, the only performance gains I was able to see were in the the runtime dynamic linker able to load the code 0.012 seconds faster on the x86_64 bit.

I'm sure that a more complex program would benefit, however, that benefit is overshadowed by the instability of using another program in every fx-chain (bit-bridge) for 90% of my plugins(fx which are mostly still 32-bit) as opposed to using jbridge for 10% of my plugins(soft-synths, which btw can easily be frozen and/or converted to audio eliminating the necessity for having the soft-synth active throughout the entire mixing process.  This is for my system.  If you're happy with the status-quo, more power to ya.

And btw, you could have made your point without the personal attacks.  I don't think I'm the only programmer here and only called you on your false statement which you made in such an authoritative posture.

Best,


EDIT: for anyone interested, here is the wikipedia page for the CARDIAC (http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ve_Aid_to_Computation) cardboard computer which actually has 4 slides.  I forgot about the memory cells.

post edited by guitardood - 2013/02/20 09:51:55


Best,
Guitardood 

Reverb Nation: http://www.reverbnation.com/ChuckFletcher


"Life is like a box of chocolates.  You know, eventually you're going to get the one filled with alien-like nasty tasting goo and have to spit it out and say YUCK"
guitardood
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 09:00:36 (permalink)
Freddie H


guitardood



 
Personally, I do believe that the whole move to 64-bit is hype.  From a DAW perspective.  Does anyone really have any projects, "without memory-starved soft synths", require more than 2gb of RAM?  As a programmer, I would find that very hard to believe.  This is the reason I asked the question the other day about being able to run BFD2 or Machfive 64-bit versions under 32-bit Sonar.  Would get rid of the whole flaky bit-bridge on 90% of my plugins and allow my two memory pigs to operate in 64-bit (found out this is possible with jbridge but haven't tried yet).


I mean seriously.  I had multiple 75+ track projects using tons of both native and UAD plugs and NEVER ran out of memory under Sonar 7.


Best,
Who isn’t using software’s in there production these days?
I get it that you are more into old school guitar “Audio and recording” guy. Sure I see that you don’t see the need of 64bit so much, the only benefits are smoother experience and stable system, recording audio.

 
But most of us use software's and work with digital productions today. Not just A Kick, Snare, a bell & Banjo.  
  
 
If you take a guy like me that use 90% software’s and also many audio tracks with FXs, Vocal dumped Kontakt instruments and Omnisphere, Vienna strings, +100 tracks audio and midi, use tons of plugins, use outboard into the DAW, digital productions, recording mostly only Vocals.
Working with modern POP and Electronic music and film tracks. Working sometimes with TV and film projects etc too..
 
To me X64bit is essential!

I understand.  I'm pretty sure the 64-bit version sounds 20-40% better also.

Seriously.  Switching from Sonar 32-bit to 64-bit and not using bit-bridge is more than just the $150 upgrade price of sonar.  For me, it means that I have to ditch the 4 UAD-1 cards I have in favor of a UAD-2 card in order to use the 64-bit versions, about a $1500-2500 investment for a comparable system.  It also means ditching my go-to plugs, some of which are 32-bit DX plugs that, IMHO sound leaps and bounds better than the current offerings (e.g. DSP-FX Reverb which sound better than the hardware Lexicon I had vs. Breverb which sounds like I put my headphones in a coffee can and recorded it) and to replace the quality 32-bit plugs would probably cost another $2500-3500.  Can you afford that in this economy?  God bless!  Unfortunately, I was barely able to scrape together the funds for X2 and my Pod HD.


And all due respect, but where are your 100+ track mixes, sans banjo, for our amusement.  FWIW, mine are available below in all their banjo glory as well as the Gizzae album http://www.gizzae.com/Roots.html (which was produced entirely in Sonar 7/8 32-bit with most songs being over 75 tracks).


Best,





Best,
Guitardood 

Reverb Nation: http://www.reverbnation.com/ChuckFletcher


"Life is like a box of chocolates.  You know, eventually you're going to get the one filled with alien-like nasty tasting goo and have to spit it out and say YUCK"
Bub
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 09:51:12 (permalink)
Dear George Lucas Walt Disney's Cryogenically Preserved Corpse,

Please update all 80 of your Pro Tools desks at your 155,000 Sq./Ft., state of the art, Billion dollar world renowned recording facility that sits on 4000 acres, which is capable of accommodating a 130 piece orchestra and capturing their sound at a sample rate of 192kHz, while simultaneously linked to every other major recording studio on the planet in real time, formerly owned by George Lucas, to something a little more state of the art, say, Sonar X1 Producer 64 bit Edition?

It matters!

Sincerely,

Bub.
post edited by Bub - 2013/02/20 11:35:29

"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
zybermark
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 10:06:52 (permalink)
W00T! I never thought I would see assembly posted on this forum! :)


 
redbarchetta
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 10:07:48 (permalink)
I did NOT like assembly language in college.
redbarchetta
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 10:12:16 (permalink)
@guitardude
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't part of the alure of 64 bit vs 32 bit the ability to move more data more quickly.  Like for fetch operations and what not?

I'm a software developer myself but not a bit twiddler. As said, I didn't like my assembly classes.  Closest I'd ever want to go there again is "C"
scook
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 10:16:55 (permalink)
Assembly is one of the weed out classes. Working the CS labs, I saw several change degree plans after failing assembly. IIRC, it was required for the degree plan to be ACM accredited.
guitardood
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 10:21:22 (permalink)
redbarchetta


@guitardude
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't part of the alure of 64 bit vs 32 bit the ability to move more data more quickly.  Like for fetch operations and what not?

I'm a software developer myself but not a bit twiddler. As said, I didn't like my assembly classes.  Closest I'd ever want to go there again is "C"

I'm sure that's part of it, though with all the caching being done on-die I think the real significant reason for 64-bit is the ability to access more in-memory data.  IMHO, in a streaming app such as Sonar, you could have a 256-bit CPU/OS/Compiler  and it will still stream at whatever speed the disks could provide data.  It's a bit different for the sampling soft-synths which utilize large memory buffers (BFD,Kontakt,Machfive, et al) to load as many samples in ram as possible, primarily to cut down on latency.


Best,




Best,
Guitardood 

Reverb Nation: http://www.reverbnation.com/ChuckFletcher


"Life is like a box of chocolates.  You know, eventually you're going to get the one filled with alien-like nasty tasting goo and have to spit it out and say YUCK"
guitardood
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 10:25:10 (permalink)
scook


Assembly is one of the weed out classes. Working the CS labs, I saw several change degree plans after failing assembly. IIRC, it was required for the degree plan to be ACM accredited.

I had a System 370 Assembler class with a Chinese instructor who, despite being a very nice person, had very thick accent.  It took a difficult computer language and made it almost impossible for some classmates.


Best,



Best,
Guitardood 

Reverb Nation: http://www.reverbnation.com/ChuckFletcher


"Life is like a box of chocolates.  You know, eventually you're going to get the one filled with alien-like nasty tasting goo and have to spit it out and say YUCK"
redbarchetta
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 11:25:46 (permalink)
scook


Assembly is one of the weed out classes. Working the CS labs, I saw several change degree plans after failing assembly. IIRC, it was required for the degree plan to be ACM accredited.

Oh, I didn't drop the course, I just didn't get my degree
Had to get out into the field and start working, I just never went back and got those classes past. When I attempted to, the college had sense stopped offering the course.
 
I've been in the industry for about 17 years now.  I've worked at Intel for about 12 of those.  You'd think I'd know more about bit twiddling considering where I work, but, I work FAR from the processors. All the development I do is more database / web driven
redbarchetta
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 11:27:46 (permalink)
guitardood


redbarchetta


@guitardude
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't part of the alure of 64 bit vs 32 bit the ability to move more data more quickly.  Like for fetch operations and what not?

I'm a software developer myself but not a bit twiddler. As said, I didn't like my assembly classes.  Closest I'd ever want to go there again is "C"

I'm sure that's part of it, though with all the caching being done on-die I think the real significant reason for 64-bit is the ability to access more in-memory data.  IMHO, in a streaming app such as Sonar, you could have a 256-bit CPU/OS/Compiler  and it will still stream at whatever speed the disks could provide data.  It's a bit different for the sampling soft-synths which utilize large memory buffers (BFD,Kontakt,Machfive, et al) to load as many samples in ram as possible, primarily to cut down on latency.


Best,
 
How much memory can Sonar utilize?  Also, have you ran sonar with a SSD? Wondering what kind of performance enhancements you'd get with one of those.

SteveStrummerUK
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 11:29:31 (permalink)
Bub


Dear George Lucas,

Plus update all 80 of your Pro Tools desks at your 155,000 Sq./Ft., state of the art, Billion dollar world renowned recording facility that sits on 4000 acres, which is capable of accommodating a 130 piece orchestra and capturing their sound at a sample rate of 192kHz, while simultaneously linked to every other major recording studio on the planet in real time, to something a little more state of the art, say, Sonar X1 Producer 64 bit Edition?

It matters!

Sincerely,

Bub.

 
Now that's how to do sarcasm
 
 

 Music:     The Coffee House BandVeRy MeTaL

scook
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 11:41:54 (permalink)
Memory available to SONAR depends on the version of SONAR and OS. Many people use SSDs in one way or another with SONAR. I have my sample library on an SSD; my audio projects and programs are on separate regular HDs.
sharke
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Re:Next update SONAR X2B...when? 2013/02/20 11:42:49 (permalink)
Good God the sight of assembly language makes me aroused. Well maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration - it does make me semi-pleased though. 

James
Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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