Paul P
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/16 09:10:12
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I still don't see where a potential new user will hear about, then be attracted to Sonar (except maybe SOS).
Everything that's just been mentioned points users away from Sonar.
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
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Anderton
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/16 11:45:47
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jpetersen
Some years back I was at Frankfurt Musikmesse and Brandon Ryan demoed the Matrix, looping stuff and recording the result into tracks. Very slick. And not only for EDM. But as usual, I cannot remember how he did it.
Unfortunately the only youtubes I can find on the Matrix are pretty lame by comparison.
Edit: Found this, but it's EDM-centric and doesn't go into the same depth.
https://youtu.be/KvuAsX05jUs
https://youtu.be/h3eM2r0ouFo
Edit2: Ah, it's important to watch all the "Worlds Collide" videos from the start, not just these two.
The first Advanced Workshop had a video on using the Matrix for songwriting. Maybe I should just update it for 2016 and put it on YouTube.
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Anderton
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/16 11:59:22
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Paul P
I still don't see where a potential new user will hear about, then be attracted to Sonar (except maybe SOS).
Everything that's just been mentioned points users away from Sonar. The only explanation I have for the surge of interest in Artist and (even more surprising) it making the top 10 in MI Sales Trak last month is that this forum, and the site in general, probably have pretty good SEO. If you search on "SONAR Artist Reviews," you get a lot of hits. I think what points people to SONAR is the versatility. Live is the only other program that has something like the Matrix View, Acid Pro is the only other program that lets you create and edit acidized files, the REX import is outstanding, Propellerheads says the ReWire implementation is one of the best, you get a ton of plug-ins so you don't have to invest in lots of extras, it's touch-enabled, implements lots of drag-and-drop, etc.
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tenfoot
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/16 12:45:11
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Anderton
I think what points people to SONAR is the versatility. Live is the only other program that has something like the Matrix View, Acid Pro is the only other program that lets you create and edit acidized files, the REX import is outstanding, Propellerheads says the ReWire implementation is one of the best, you get a ton of plug-ins so you don't have to invest in lots of extras, it's touch-enabled, implements lots of drag-and-drop, etc.
I think an often overlooked and under advertised feature of Sonar that would also attract people is the Playlist function. Even when I was using another DAW to program in the early nineties I was using Cakewalk on stage just for the playlist. If you check most any other DAW forum you will find a thread requesting a play list feature 'like sonar has had for years'. I can't remember exactly when, but a few years back Cakewalk released a version that excluded the playlist. Following the uproar it was thankfully reinstated in an update:)
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jpetersen
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/16 13:09:06
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I can confirm the "like in Sonar" comments in other forums.
My other DAWs do the everyday things better, but Sonar has depth.
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Vastman
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/16 14:18:13
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☄ Helpfulby charlyg 2016/02/16 14:37:31
Bristol_Jonesey
To adopt a "No new features - just fixes please" strategy begs the question, what would the devs be doing for the other 9 months of the year?
A balanced mix please, of fixes, enhancements & new features, just like it's always been.
You always summarize things so eloquently! There are MANY rough spots I hope get tweaked (collapsible folders in console, an amazing arrange system, etc); many new users love the doodads and it saves them money not having to buy other vsts until GAS hits them hard; SPlat is soooooo stable on many machines, I'd be frustrated if workflow was ignored. Bugs DON'T bug me... and I assume most are user error, ignorance, or machine specific. The bakers bake well... whiners please dunk ur heads in a vat of cold water. The "mememe" focus of soooo many people is just friggin' sad.
Dana We make the future... Climate Change MusicVastMaschine:SP4L/W10/i74930K/32GB/RME/CAD E100s; The Orchestra! NOVO!/Inspire/BohemianViolin&Cello, ARK1&2,/MinimalCapriccioMaximoSoto/OE1&2, Action&Emotive/Omni2/Tril/RMX/All OrangeTree/Falcon/APE Jugs/Alpha&Bravo/BFD3 & SD3Gravity/DM307/AEON/DM/Damage/Diva/HZebra/Hive/Diversion/VC4/Serum/Alchemy/blablablaSpitfire/8DIO/SL/KH/EW/NI; Shred1&2/AGF,G,M&T Torch&Res&Ren/GD-6; Ibanez SR1200&SR505NOVAX FanFret Tele&Strat
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jpetersen
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/16 16:16:46
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☄ Helpfulby Mystic38 2016/02/18 12:24:42
Vastman
Bristol_Jonesey
To adopt a "No new features - just fixes please" strategy begs the question, what would the devs be doing for the other 9 months of the year?
I'd be frustrated if workflow was ignored. Bugs DON'T bug me... and I assume most are user error, ignorance, or machine specific.
A comparison of the rate of problem reports to that of fixes published in the eZines would suggest the devs have their hands full even now. Workflow issues are important and in many cases can be though of as a kind of bug. But if you really use Sonar intensively, you will be working around bugs that are real and confirmed.
post edited by jpetersen - 2016/02/16 16:35:39
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Vastman
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/16 23:00:54
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jpetersen
A comparison of the rate of problem reports to that of fixes published in the eZines would suggest the devs have their hands full even now.
Workflow issues are important and in many cases can be though of as a kind of bug. But if you really use Sonar intensively, you will be working around bugs that are real and confirmed.
I think that's just blather... show me the data. You have none I presume. BTW, while ur at it, post your system specs in your sig. If you're "intensively" using Sonar it's surprising you haven't done this long ago. Actually, I wish there was a list of confirmed bugs and their status... I think it would be far less than X3 or any prior version. And your assertion that "dvs have their hands full even now" is just that... unsubstantiated blather. But now you're saying workflow issues are bugs??? OY! One can do something many ways... different DAWs do so... which one has the "bug"? Most around here feel SPlt is relatively bug free. In any hugely complex and powerful system, working on different configs, bug (often associated with a unique system) crop up. There will ALWAYS be bugs. Go on any forum, for ANY DAW... and you will find yourself.
post edited by Vastman - 2016/02/16 23:20:28
Dana We make the future... Climate Change MusicVastMaschine:SP4L/W10/i74930K/32GB/RME/CAD E100s; The Orchestra! NOVO!/Inspire/BohemianViolin&Cello, ARK1&2,/MinimalCapriccioMaximoSoto/OE1&2, Action&Emotive/Omni2/Tril/RMX/All OrangeTree/Falcon/APE Jugs/Alpha&Bravo/BFD3 & SD3Gravity/DM307/AEON/DM/Damage/Diva/HZebra/Hive/Diversion/VC4/Serum/Alchemy/blablablaSpitfire/8DIO/SL/KH/EW/NI; Shred1&2/AGF,G,M&T Torch&Res&Ren/GD-6; Ibanez SR1200&SR505NOVAX FanFret Tele&Strat
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deswind
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/17 02:33:41
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My intent in the original post was to include workflow issues as part of the process of a period of emphasis on bug fixes. The idea, which I could have expressed better in the original post (which I did not expect to create all these other posts) is that there should be an emphasis on making the current product as good as possible. I should have spelled it out clearer then. And the emphasis on this does not need to be for a year - in response to "what will they do the rest of the year."
There have been responses to the original post that are all over the place and that is probably a good thing. That means people are thinking. If everyone agrees on everything, then no one is thinking.
I trust that Cakewalk will find the balance. There is some truth to many of the viewpoints expressed here and maybe it provides some useful information.
The fact appears to be that Cakewalk is developing software for a continuously varying and diverse set of hardware, that makes it difficult for any manufacturer to achieve 100% for everyone. That is my guess at this point based on all the posts. And it appears that this "moving target" of hardware variety does not allow for every feature and function to be tested on all systems that are out there prior to release.
Let's try not to make the various opinions into a personal deal.
Personally, I would love to change every color of every feature to a color of my choice, but if that risks something else going wrong, I would say forget it.
It is a great program. I am grateful for what is working great, which is alot and frankly more than enough to reach my personal goals with it. Nothing was intended to bash the program. It was just a suggestion.
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declan
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/17 04:03:42
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deswind, I hope you don't think anything in this thread was personal. You've stated quite eloquently how certain things affect users differently. It's so true. I've been pretty guilty about complaining about other people's complaints at times, because we all do different things and use Sonar for our own reasons, but I don't think most really use everything Sonar has to offer, and some things still in it aren't quite the "State of the Art" that some really want/need. I've been doing this for over 20 years, and everyone has to work around a lot of stuff. The great proponents of "bug fixes" don't usually throw in a sentence saying they can & do pretty easily get around them. The proponents of "new features" are almost just as bad, of which I'm probably one. But I also have seen the recent "recording on demand" requests and I'm flummoxed (very retro IMHO). To each his/her own but CW is doing a better job now for themselves since I've been with them, and I do applaud them and sincerely trust it will benefit me as it always has. I do think this forum gets too defensive at times these days, but as a whole they're are so many helpful & industrious people here. So I think we should forgive all of us. 
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/17 04:51:35
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Vastman
Bristol_Jonesey
To adopt a "No new features - just fixes please" strategy begs the question, what would the devs be doing for the other 9 months of the year?
A balanced mix please, of fixes, enhancements & new features, just like it's always been.
You always summarize things so eloquently! There are MANY rough spots I hope get tweaked (collapsible folders in console, an amazing arrange system, etc); many new users love the doodads and it saves them money not having to buy other vsts until GAS hits them hard; SPlat is soooooo stable on many machines, I'd be frustrated if workflow was ignored. Bugs DON'T bug me... and I assume most are user error, ignorance, or machine specific.
The bakers bake well... whiners please dunk ur heads in a vat of cold water. The "mememe" focus of soooo many people is just friggin' sad.
Thanks for your kind words. I'm still waiting for nested folders in Track View - one day eh!!
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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jpetersen
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/17 07:19:13
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...and the ability to drag more than one track into them at a time.
Currently this is done with Rightclick>Move to folder. Probably programmed to avoid touching the folder tree code. It feels like all folder related functions work in different ways, which is not unusual with a mature product. The code handling Insert, Clone, Dragdrop - also the different code sections for when you are at the first track, the last track, the last track of a folder...it needs to be gone over and unified. It will be a brave dev to do that.
One thing that might help is if the Bakers consider little dropzone areas above and below each track and also between contiguous folders when actually in dragdrop mode, possibly lighting up as the user drags over these zones. That way it's easier to know whether the intention of the user is to drop underneath a track but inside the same folder, underneath but outside of and between the folders, or as the first track of the next folder.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/17 08:13:03
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I can help you there Jan - select all the tracks you want to move to a specific folder using ctrl + click or shift + click, then right click any of them and select move to folder and they will all move en masse
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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Anderton
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/17 10:18:04
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☄ Helpfulby charlyg 2016/02/17 13:15:29
Bristol_Jonesey
I can help you there Jan - select all the tracks you want to move to a specific folder using ctrl + click or shift + click, then right click any of them and select move to folder and they will all move en masse
Yes, he did mention right-click. But I think it's important to consider the clickstream. If you drag, it's: - Click on each track you want to move.
- Click on one of the tracks.
- Drag to the folder where you want the tracks to reside.
- Release mouse.
Using right click, it's: - Click on each track you want to move.
- Right-click on one of the tracks.
- Drag on the dialog to select the folder to which you want to move the tracks.
- Release mouse.
In terms of time and efficiency, the difference between the two options is negligible. In fact I would argue that the second method is faster because you don't need to drag carefully to make sure you hit the folder, and can move tracks to folders that aren't visible on screen. The only reason I can see for mass dragging is consistency with being able to drag in one track. But it's not necessarily a better way to perform tfe mass move operation. It's the same principle as traffic reports in NYC. When they talk about traffic congestion on the "George Washington Bridge," they often abbreviate that to "G Double-U B." But it's the same number of syllables either way
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deswind
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/17 10:27:55
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Well said, declan.
Enjoy,
AB
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jpetersen
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/17 12:23:02
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Anderton
In terms of time and efficiency, the difference between the two options is negligible. In fact I would argue that the second method is faster because you don't need to drag carefully to make sure you hit the folder, and can move tracks to folders that aren't visible on screen.
The only reason I can see for mass dragging is consistency with being able to drag in one track. But it's not necessarily a better way to perform tfe mass move operation.
I don't disagree, but I'd like to add that folder drag-and-drop is almost universally understood. I usually create folders when tracks proliferate and instinctively drag all vocals into the VOX folder. it doesn't work, I go "huh?!?", remember there's a trick somewhere, couldn't be bothered, so I just drag-drop them individually. I'm sure I'm not alone.
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KPerry
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/17 12:27:57
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There's also an argument that multiple track drag into folder would also support multiple track drag not into folders - ie. for "normal" track re-arrangement, which isn't possible with the right click method.
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Anderton
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/17 13:00:25
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KPerry
There's also an argument that multiple track drag into folder would also support multiple track drag not into folders - ie. for "normal" track re-arrangement, which isn't possible with the right click method.
Excellent point, although I don't know if fixing one would automatically allow for the other. I was thinking about the code involved...bear in mind I know nothing about code, but the issue with the drag into folders might be that tracks point to folders, but folders don't point to tracks, so the folders aren't "aware" of the tracks. This also might explain why nested folders would be difficult to implement. Again, though, this is just speculation. That said, one of SONAR's strengths is that often, there are multiple ways to accomplish the same result, and mass drag moves would be consistent with that philosophy. However if it would require a massive re-definition of the relationship to folders and tracks at the core of the program, there are probably other issues the Bakers would prioritize.
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charlyg
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/17 13:04:11
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speculation schmeckulation!
PS - I have nothing to add, I just wanted to say that........
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jpetersen
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/17 13:13:43
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It would also free up some real-estate in the right-click context menu. >> However if it would require a massive re-definition of the relationship to folders and tracks at the core of the program, I am almost certain this is the case. Track number and position were tightly linked in Cakewalk versions of old.
post edited by jpetersen - 2016/02/17 14:29:45
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Snehankur
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/17 13:15:21
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Earlier Cakewalk and most of the MIDI Sequencing programs have these 3 options for each MIDI Traks:
Transpose
MIDI Port
MIDI Channel
Just now I was stuck with these.
I had copied a MIDI Track from one project and pasted in the Instrument Track. No sound. Later I found the Instrument is on MIDI channel 1 while the event lists shows all on MIDI Channel 3. I had to use Find and Replace.
Then it produces sound but on different scale. Wish I had a Transpose. I know I can do this in PRV. selecting a region of notes and then drag.
Is there any option where we have these 3 [SPlat] ?
Regards
Snehankur
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Snehankur
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/17 13:23:13
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Automation Lane:
How can I remove the entire automation data for a track so that I can redo. Now I am clicking endlessly with the delete tool. Must be some easier way : but I don't know. Help needed.
Regards
Snehankur
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Sanderxpander
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/17 13:53:10
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☄ Helpfulby Snehankur 2016/02/17 14:22:34
Right click anywhere on the envelope and select "delete envelope".
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Snehankur
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/17 14:09:46
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Ooops.. Why I didn't try this!
Thank you very much.
Regards
Snehankur
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sharke
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/17 14:39:35
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☄ Helpfulby Zargg71 2016/02/17 15:44:10
Snehankur
Earlier Cakewalk and most of the MIDI Sequencing programs have these 3 options for each MIDI Traks:
Transpose
MIDI Port
MIDI Channel
Just now I was stuck with these.
I had copied a MIDI Track from one project and pasted in the Instrument Track. No sound. Later I found the Instrument is on MIDI channel 1 while the event lists shows all on MIDI Channel 3. I had to use Find and Replace.
Then it produces sound but on different scale. Wish I had a Transpose. I know I can do this in PRV. selecting a region of notes and then drag.
Is there any option where we have these 3 [SPlat] ?
Regards
Snehankur
There is a transpose option in the track's inspector.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Snehankur
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/17 20:00:38
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Key+ ? I thought it was a part of Arp.  Thank you Sharke. This forum is better than manual!! Regards Snehankur
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sharke
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/17 23:23:07
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The only thing with that transpose slider is that sometimes I try and quickly go up or down and octave and wouldn't you know but the darn thing seems to hit everything but 12 semitones. So I flip between 11 and 13 semitones and the resulting out of key music just adds to my stress levels 
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Vastman
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/18 00:40:51
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sharke
The only thing with that transpose slider is that sometimes I try and quickly go up or down and octave and wouldn't you know but the darn thing seems to hit everything but 12 semitones. So I flip between 11 and 13 semitones and the resulting out of key music just adds to my stress levels
Move to the bay area, Sharke! Ur stress level will immediately relax... 
Dana We make the future... Climate Change MusicVastMaschine:SP4L/W10/i74930K/32GB/RME/CAD E100s; The Orchestra! NOVO!/Inspire/BohemianViolin&Cello, ARK1&2,/MinimalCapriccioMaximoSoto/OE1&2, Action&Emotive/Omni2/Tril/RMX/All OrangeTree/Falcon/APE Jugs/Alpha&Bravo/BFD3 & SD3Gravity/DM307/AEON/DM/Damage/Diva/HZebra/Hive/Diversion/VC4/Serum/Alchemy/blablablaSpitfire/8DIO/SL/KH/EW/NI; Shred1&2/AGF,G,M&T Torch&Res&Ren/GD-6; Ibanez SR1200&SR505NOVAX FanFret Tele&Strat
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sharke
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/18 01:35:50
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JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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olemon
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Re: No new features - just fixes please
2016/02/18 05:57:31
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I don't really have an opinion on the matter. I'm not a power user, just a hobbyist.
I did subscribe, but I haven't updated recently. I'm still apprehensive about updates due to the problem reports posted....
https://www.reverbnation.com/scottholson Platinum, Studio One 3 Pro, Win 10 (x64), AMD FX-8350, ASUS M5A97 R2.0, 16GB, RME UCX, Digimax DP88, Faderport 8, Revive Audio Mod Studio Channel, Vintage Audio M72, Summit Audio TLA-50, KRK Rokit 5 G2 Monitors, Guitars "If you wait till the last minute, it only takes a minute."
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