keyzs
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/10 10:13:22
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PT is hyped up biggest time because its been in industry for a very long time. true... almost all studios use it and even schools are teaching on the platform. in the early days of DAW, PT was, i think, the only one that could cut it; especially on the latency issues. if memory serves, it was Digidesign that demanded specific hardware to be used while others would face some teething issues. personally the set of Layla 24/96 & ADAT would work well on CW Pro and others; even on a very simple MAC based multitrack. When it came to PT, there was always some delay or lag somewhere, even with world sync. It was until i tried Nuendo, i gave up working with PT as it became apparent the software was hardware dependent. however, fast forwarding to present day, almost any hardware today would work fine... with regard to days of old, most will attribute lag to Windows drivers not being up to scratch but how can one compare to specific drivers written for specifically designed audio hardware against generic drivers and a 1001 different devices... the problem with major studios is that they have invested too much into both hardware & software and also engineers have been too accustomed to familiar GUI and workflows to want to change. in the production world; time is $$$... and to restart the learning curve is almost non existent. ultimately its not the brand of tools but what we choose to do with them productively. looking at current day products, many GUIs resemble physical hardware, only instead of using physical fingers, we use the mouse to click and drag; their principal function remains the same. it only provides the user to a familiar look and feel; perhaps something similar to that of a security blanket. the marketing hype has to go on and will go on. how else would companies make their payday? i remembered buying my WaveStation hardware synth for almost $3000 and until today its still working as my pride and joy. for over 10yrs i have not been a customer at Korg until i got the Legacy System. comparing $3000 then for 1 synth and $300 for all their stuff, including the M1 plus all the additional sound cards... its like Christmas morning all over again.... but to Korg, this wouldnt sound too good eh... hope this hype doesnt get us down... its just a tool... content is king.... good luck all  Cheers!!! my 2c.... (one thing i am glad of CWPA till Sonar is their automatic latency compensation... it just works no bs nor bragging...  )
post edited by keyzs - 2013/04/10 10:39:10
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thunderkyss
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/10 11:00:34
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Jim Roseberry
You know? About real engineers, who know how to mic a drum or a guitar cabinet. Who mix other things than samples and synths. I'm talking about guys like Joe Baressi, recording Tool or Queens of the Stone Age.
Though ProTools is very common, there are folks in the industry who aren't using ProTools or Logic.
Mastering Engineers, Film and Game Composers, Mix Engineers, Record Company Execs, Radio Production Engineers, etc.
These folks have looked at what ProTools offers vs. the cost... and decided Sonar, Cubase/Nuendo, Samplitude/Sequoia, DP, etc was a better fit. Many of these folks are clients... so I know they exist.
ie: Recent client works on numerous 30 minute radio spots each week. Offline bounce saves this client literally hours of production time each/every week.
A professional isn't hired because of the tools he/she uses.
They're hired based on reputation and results.
If a client cares more about your DAW software than your skills as an engineer, run the opposite direction.
This is true. I started a thread here a while back, asking what did Sonar offer the Songwriter. Most of the answers were features that are found in just about any DAW & Sonar, simply didn't provide a "better" solution than any of them. I figured as much, since Sonar is not written for the "Songwriter" yes, you can write songs on it... but if you were to develop a program specifically for the song writer, it would look & feel totally different than Sonar. In this case, Sonar is an Abrams tank, when all you "need" is a pellet gun. Same thing with mastering & several of the other tasks you mentioned. Pro Tools is overkill. But you didn't see that guy harping about how great Pro Tools was for mastering. Watch the video. The things they talked about, are the things Pro Tools excels at & Cubase, Sonar, Nuendo can't touch.
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emwhy
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/10 11:13:59
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Another factor is that it's a very known brand. I work in broadcasting and I can't tell you how many times people ask if I use Pro Tools. Now these are mostly people who don't really know much about actual recording, but that's the one "brand" they are familiar with. They don't understand that we don't use Pro Tools for a host of reason, cost, hardware, it ain't exactly expedient which will kill you in my industry, you have to pay extra for MP3 support. The list could go on. But mention SONAR or Adobe Audition and they will think you have 3 heads. Not because this is bad software, but because they've never heard of it. I had a consultant in a while back who tried to convince our engineers that pro Tools should be the DAW of choice. I calmly set him straight by showing him what SONAR could do and how it suited our needs better (and faster). He really couldn't argue with what I showed him, and in fact came away quite impressed with the program both in cost and perfomrance.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/10 12:32:07
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But mention SONAR or Adobe Audition FWIW, My girlfriend is part of the morning show on QFM-96 (local classic-rock station). They use Adobe Audition to produce radio spots... (pretty common for radio production) Their needs are simple... and Audition is quick/easy/full-featured. We frequently cut VOs here... For that, I like Reaper or Samplitude... as the Object based editing is extensive/helpful As a brand... everyone has heard of ProTools. Most of those folks have no idea about the pros/cons. I think a lot of it is psychological. I'm using Pro Tools...
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emwhy
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/10 13:13:42
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Jim, I don't envy her being in this business these days. We use Adobe as well for quick on-air stuff....version 3.0, but SONAR is the main DAW here in the production studios. What blew the consultants mind was being able to open wave files with Audition in SONAR. He was unfamiliar with that even though we've doing it since the days of Pro Audio 9. Obviously that can't be done in Pro Tools. He left seeing that we had the best of both worlds.
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thunderkyss
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/10 13:15:03
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emwhy
Another factor is that it's a very known brand. I work in broadcasting and I can't tell you how many times people ask if I use Pro Tools. Now these are mostly people who don't really know much about actual recording, but that's the one "brand" they are familiar with. They don't understand that we don't use Pro Tools for a host of reason... Yeah, Pro Tools may be a generic term nowadays, for all I know. Like Channel Locks or Coke (if you're in the south).
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Freddie H
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/10 15:45:17
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thunderkyss
This is true.
The things they talked about, are the things Pro Tools excels at & Cubase, Sonar, Nuendo can't touch.
Are you on drugs? Please enlighten us with just one single feature exclusive found in in Pro Tools that Cubase, SONAR, LOGIC and Samplitude or the rest DAW already have? You should definitely stop taking those AVID Kool Aid pills. In fact Cubase run over Pro Tools and back it up and run it over twice and third and fourth time. I'm not a Pro Tools hater. Its not my fault that PRO TOOLS are years behind. I'm glad that finally PRO TOOLS 11 add Native x64bit support. Another fix they finally have add is surround ability 5.1, working and syncing with film projects. I think not the film companies like Walt Disney picture, Pixar Animation Studios and other "score music to film"- producers like Remote Control Productions in the industry will drop Nuendo and Sequoia over Pro Tools 11. I think that will never happen, not now at least. Pro tools is still years behind the rest of the DAW's regarding all other features and mixing. That's the truth & the reality no matter some of you don't like it or not. Over and Out and Bye all!
post edited by Freddie H - 2013/04/10 15:54:10
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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Rain
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/10 17:03:34
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Jim Roseberry
You know? About real engineers, who know how to mic a drum or a guitar cabinet. Who mix other things than samples and synths. I'm talking about guys like Joe Baressi, recording Tool or Queens of the Stone Age.
Though ProTools is very common, there are folks in the industry who aren't using ProTools or Logic.
Mastering Engineers, Film and Game Composers, Mix Engineers, Record Company Execs, Radio Production Engineers, etc.
These folks have looked at what ProTools offers vs. the cost... and decided Sonar, Cubase/Nuendo, Samplitude/Sequoia, DP, etc was a better fit. Many of these folks are clients... so I know they exist.
ie: Recent client works on numerous 30 minute radio spots each week. Offline bounce saves this client literally hours of production time each/every week.
A professional isn't hired because of the tools he/she uses.
They're hired based on reputation and results.
If a client cares more about your DAW software than your skills as an engineer, run the opposite direction.
I totally agree with that - and I know it and I was clear about that in my post. Some folks use other software. I use Logic and IMHO it's the best thing since sliced bread. Hans Zimmer uses Cubase, we heard about it. One guy tracked Ray Charles using Sonar. But I think it's sad that every time someone point out that Pro Tools is still the industry standard (which doesn't mean the only thing anyone anywhere ever use), people insist on the exceptions. In french we have a saying which goes something like - the exception only proves the rule. Obviously, there isn't such a thing as a standard among the independents, songwriters, jingle writers etc... But where a standard IS necessary - in big commercial recording facilities and such, the one name that pops up is PT. And it's also very likely that among all those projects that have been put together in Ableton Live or DP many will end up part of a Pro Tools session at some point - either when taken to a pro mix engineer or to a mastering engineer or whatnot...
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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djwayne
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/10 17:08:24
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$ 699 ?? I don't think so.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/10 19:05:22
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Jim, I don't envy her being in this business these days. We use Adobe as well for quick on-air stuff....version 3.0, but SONAR is the main DAW here in the production studios. What blew the consultants mind was being able to open wave files with Audition in SONAR. He was unfamiliar with that even though we've doing it since the days of Pro Audio 9. Obviously that can't be done in Pro Tools. He left seeing that we had the best of both worlds. Yeah, she's been on air here for 20+ years... It's a pretty cut-throat business... as it sounds you're well aware. She's fortunate to be very talented (voice and skills) and can hold her own with all the guys. I've got Audition setup that way too... Makes a great combo
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/10 20:02:01
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I have a tool. Sadly, it certainly ain't 'Pro'  And you wouldn't want it in your studio.... Unless you like cheese. Incidentally, who's winning? Is it SONAR? I hope so.... I like SONAR. PS, it's an amateur cheese knife.
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John
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/10 20:34:42
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Everybody knows you can't slice cheese with an amateur cheese knife. You have to use a pro cheese knife. All the best chesses use Pro cheese knives. Now, if you wish to do it right and upgrade I can sell you a proper pro cheese knife. We have an installment plan too. You will need it.
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melmyers
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/10 21:47:02
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I myself worked in radio for many years. When I first arrived at Tulsa's Cox Radio cluster, they were using Pro Tools in all of the production studios. The company had invested tons of money in Pro Tools, but everyone who had to use the program to produce commercials or interviews hated it.
I suggested they try Cool Edit Pro (pre-Adobe) in one room to see what the staff thought of it. Soon, that was the only studio anyone wanted to use. As time went on, they upgraded eventually to Adobe Audition 3 in every room, which they continue to use to this day.
I gave up the increasingly-badly-run radio biz a few years ago, but I still rely on Audition 3 for commercial production...and of course, Sonar X2a for jingles, songwriting, etc.
There's no doubt that Pro Tools has become the "Coca-Cola" of DAW's, primarily because they were first out of the gate to firmly establish themselves and dominate the market...but I've always been a Mountain Dew man. The Audition/Sonar combination gives me everything I need, for any project. I can't imagine throwing that away for Pro Tools, even if AVID gave me the newest edition for free.
Mel Myers Producer/Songwriter/Voiceover Talent Sonar Platinum 64-bit/Intel Quad Core i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz 16GB RAM/LGA1155 Motherboard/Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit /Focusrite 18i20/Cakewalk A-800 Pro/UAD-2 Quad PCIe/& a black and white Pomeranian who thinks he's the boss
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thunderkyss
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/10 22:01:38
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Freddie H
Are you on drugs?
Please enlighten us with just one single feature exclusive found in in Pro Tools that Cubase, SONAR, LOGIC and Samplitude or the rest DAW already have? You should definitely stop taking those AVID Kool Aid pills.
Over and Out and Bye all!
Did you watch the video? Again, it's like comparing Kronos & a VS2480 to Motown. The right guy could run circles around Motown (or whatever modern media production company you want) in a great many areas. But there are things that you can't do on a Kronos & a VS2480, there are times you need a full studio with many different musicians, different mics, different gear. That's what those guys who pay for ProTools (the big studios) are paying for. Sonar is awesome. & for most of us, it is the better choice.
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thunderkyss
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/10 22:21:09
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John
Everybody knows you can't slice cheese with an amateur cheese knife. You have to use a pro cheese knife. All the best chesses use Pro cheese knives. Now, if you wish to do it right and upgrade I can sell you a proper pro cheese knife. We have an installment plan too. You will need it.
Just to be clear, I'm not one of those guys. Sonar is a much better application for most of us, for what we want to do. They could give protools away & Sonar would be the better value at full price. But like I said, it depends on what you want to do & how you want to do it. I got an MBox2 pro several years ago. It came with ProTools 7.4 I've used it for maybe 20% of what I do. I just bought an ElevenRack. It came with ProTools 10. I'll most likely only use it as a GUI & librarian for the ElevenRack. I paid full price for Logic Studio 7 & recently I've upgraded to Logic Pro 9. ProTools doesn't float my boat (ten does look like a significant upgrade sine 7.4 so I might use it for more, who knows). But I do all my sequencing on a Roland sequencer. I track my audio to an AW4416. But I have no illusions. & I don't need to stroke my ego.
post edited by thunderkyss - 2013/04/10 22:35:10
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Rain
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/10 22:52:15
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I think one of the reasons these discussions never go anywhere is that we're talking about totally different things. If someone mentions that in the audio recording industry Pro Tools is the standard, people will give examples pertaining to exceptions or to other fields and sub-categories altogether.
For exemple, Jim mentions his girlfriend, working on a radio show and doing her edits in Audition. I must admit that when I think of the recording industry, I'm not thinking about people accomplishing audio work, editing, cutting and splicing independently of other facilities. What they use is their concern only and it doesn't take away any of their professionalism.
Here's my own take on that.
Some time ago my wife recorded at Avatar studio NY (w/ a recently deceased legendary producer) = Pro Tools
The sessions continued here at The Palm = Pro Tools
The guy who wrote the music was using = Pro Tools
His assistant was using = Logic for scoring AND Pro Tools
All the musicians involved in the project had rigs with = Pro Tools (one exception, a guy with DP)
That's what I mean when I say standard. Because the word standard somehow implies that there's a chain of people working together, exchanging, and that they use some of the same tools and methods.
That doesn't make PT any better and it may in fact not be the right tool for you and me under certain circumstances. But just because WE prefer other tools doesn't mean that PT is wrong or this or that.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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Mooch4056
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/11 01:20:12
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From Now On Call Me Conquistador!
Donate to the cure Bapu Foundation Email: mooch4056@gmail.com for more info
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WDI
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/11 04:23:19
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I still think they need a cartoon to go with the audio in that pro tools discussion. Like woody woodpecker or something.
Sonar 7 PE Windows XP Pofessional (SP3) MSI K8N Neo4-F AMD Athlon 64 3500+ 2 GB PC 3200 Ram RME Fireface 800 Edirol FA-66 CM Labs MotorMix Old stuff: ARJO
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melvin22
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/11 06:36:47
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Someone said the right answer, and others added... but in cojunction it all comes down to this:
It is HOW you use the software in production in addition to the the right mixing techniques along with the right gear not limited to the right mics, the right acoustics, the clean shielded cables, the right outboard gear like mic preamps, compressors, and then the plugins, the mixing, the way you cross-fade things, and finally the way you MASTER. THE TOOLS ARE THERE in all the TOP DAWS >>
All DAWS are DRY and CLEAN, sound the same and the math of analog to digital is slightly different but not enough for the human ear to detect. EVERY DAW processes data equally and it is the plugins and mixing plus everything I mentioned above what makes the difference in how something sounds.
Yes, Pro-tools is like branded words that actually stayed like "fridge" from the brand Frigidaire, Q-tips, or band-aid from Johnson & Johnson. And forget Coke from Coca Cola in a different category not a word, but you get the point >>
Pro-tools is here to stay and like someone said before, many studios have invested $1,000's in pro-tools rigs and engineers are tied up when change is never a good time to start a learning curve // TIME IS $$$$
Film companies stay AWAY from pro-tools; its just not versatile enough and its surround capabilities are limited. Digidesign/AVID is just starting to get their feet wet in that field and its not very intuitive or integrates well for many in the film industry.
In the past, the advantage with pro-tools was related to CPU capacity in the era of slower computers, were they would be rigged up with outboard HD cards that took the processing load from your CPU, allowing the CPU to focus on the plugins and mastering with the actual "playback" of dozens of tracks being done outboard in the HD cards, then go thru the PC; the plugins render their effects whether applied or in real time playback, or even real time recording/monitoring... PRO-TOOLS OFFERED REALTIME hear thru the microphone LIVE any reverb, compressor, chorus, delay, etc... right thru the headphone monitors... RTAS real time audio suite. Back then, DAWS at home could not do this yet, and Studios ready to buy the very fastest computers with the most RAM could still not compete with the stability of Pro-Tools who offered 24/7 tech support and they GUARANTEED A CERTAIN NUMBER OF TRACKS depending on how many HD Cards you had installed.
It was guaranteed and they'd come see your setup if you're experiencing problems, they still do today. Now, all that CPU inadequacy era was studios during the 90's thru the start of the millenium... Things started changing with faster computers, less HD cards needed, other DAWS started getting much more powerful because PCs could multitrack much more and handle many more plugins right on board with no external HD cards. Processors went from Single core to Dual to Quad core to now (8 virtual cores) like the Core i7. RAM went from SD-RAM to DDR1, then DDR2, finally DDR3; each one twice as fast or more than the its predecessor. Hard drives went from 5,400RPM, 7,200RPM, 10,000RPM and now no hard disk at all, no moving parts, just a silent IMMEDIATE RETRIEVAL, IMMEDIATE RECORD/PLAYBACK solid state drive like FLASH memory.
NOW in this ERA by 2013, my PC is more powerful and can handle all that, let's compare it to a 1997 thru 2003 $40,000.US pro-tools rig HD with 4 cards.. you could run about 100 tracks simultaneously, and plugins.
NOW with a PC with a Core i7, 16GB, DDR3 RAM, a Solid state drive and a good audio interface with ASIO.... what can you do???
The same... about 100+ tracks and many many plugins all at once.
It's over, we reached it, there are new bench marks set and we have finally reached the ability to record many tracks at once like a full band, each person in a different room with a different instrument, the Drums alone take 4-5 mics going each to a different track, all recorded separately plus playback at the same time of another 60-70 tracks running simultaneously with plugins and effects, with higher quality than ever, up to 192K recording with just a super fast 2,500 computer. NO PRO TOOLS NEEDED, NO HD CARDS
Go!! Nuendo, Digital Performer, Logic, Cubase, Sonar and others.. Some are more simplified or easy to use (by people's opinion), some others integrate well with outside plugins or VST programs like Melodyne, Antares, or re-wire very well with reason, others are a little more complicated and don't play so well with certain add-ons or maybe glitchy, but they all do the same, yet some have shorter ways or (back alleys) shortcuts to doing things more efficiently and quicker and some have features that are stunning. Sonar has a good balance of feature rich environment, ease of use, plays well with outside programs, Re-wire, VST and at the same time filmakers especially in the category of TV shows and series, as well as video games have a tendency to love Sonar and do all their work in it. Nuendo is on top as well.
ITS A MATTER OF CHOICE
post edited by melvin22 - 2013/04/11 07:54:17
Self-built PC, Windows 7 64, ASUS P8Z68-V, Intel Core i7 3770, 16 GB RAM, SSD Samsumg 840 Series 500GB, 2X 2TB SATA, GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB DDR5, Presonus Audio, M-Audio 8in/8out MidiSport 8X8/s / Edirol 3x.midi, Mbox, Mackie Control Univ. +2 ext= 24 automated faders / Monitors: M-Audio BX8a & Cerwin Vega Ve-15 / KEYS: M-Audio 88key & 61key, Sonar PE 8.5, Reason 5, Sony Pro 9, Waves Mercury, Blue Tubes Bundle, Melodyne 3
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DigitalBoston
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/11 07:14:38
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/11 07:42:27
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John
Everybody knows you can't slice cheese with an amateur cheese knife. You have to use a pro cheese knife. All the best chesses use Pro cheese knives. Now, if you wish to do it right and upgrade I can sell you a proper pro cheese knife. We have an installment plan too. You will need it.
LOL! But this legendary, magical 'pro' cheese knife of which you speak John... Is it 32bit or full-fat 64bit? And I do like the odd mouthful of Stinking Bishop myself. MMMMMMmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmm........................ cheeeeeeeeeeese 
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John
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/11 07:51:48
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SteveStrummerUK
John
Everybody knows you can't slice cheese with an amateur cheese knife. You have to use a pro cheese knife. All the best chesses use Pro cheese knives. Now, if you wish to do it right and upgrade I can sell you a proper pro cheese knife. We have an installment plan too. You will need it.
LOL!
But this legendary, magical 'pro' cheese knife of which you speak John...
Is it 32bit or full-fat 64bit?
And I do like the odd mouthful of Stinking Bishop myself.
MMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........................ cheeeeeeeeeeese
Its one byte per slice.
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jscomposer
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/11 11:25:36
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Unfortnately, PT isn't going anywhere and will remain the "standard" until Hell freezes over. I know this because in the film world, 99% of my stems need to be delivered in PT format. Thank God for the "express" version, $699 is a complete rip off.
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stevec
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/11 13:38:42
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$699 is a complete rip off. As is $399 to upgrade. My version of PTLE 7.4 goes pretty much unused these days since I can't run it on Win7, so have to boot to a Vista partition that serves no other purpose. I really do like some of the synths though, and the FX in newer versions seem nice. Just not $399 worth of nice. 
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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thunderkyss
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/11 22:27:35
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Here's a nice article from SoS (I love that magazine). It details a project that was done, using Pro Tools for various aspects. IMO, Pro Tools is overkill for this type of project. A well spec'd native system running any of the major DAWs should be able to handle the project from start to finish without a glitch. However, there was a time when this was not the case & 30-40 mics, maybe a half dozen headphone mixes, required the additional power of a Pro Tools system. But just like the home studio has grown from the 4-track tascam, there are some studio's out there recording a hundred sources, or playing back 500 tracks, while providing effects processing, routing processes, real-time pitch and tempo processes, etc..... without a glitch. That market is shrinking & Avid (Digidesign) is having to adapt. They've yet to focus on the home market or today's small studio, where chopped down versions of their flagship is hardly competitve. At the same time, native based systems with their extra features & 64 bit support aren't competitive on the high-end.
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melvin22
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/12 01:09:31
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Very true; its a matter of value VS needs, and what price you're willing to pay for full project compatibility with most Professional Studios which run Pro-tools. You can export projects from Sonar, Nuendo and others to Pro-tools but its never spot on with every nuance of automation, every single plugin instance, and you'll have to "bounce" many things or you may run into incompatibilities. It does it very close, but some things can be missed and you'll have to go through that project very thoroughly.
Truly, you'd want to run Pro-tools HD, but a powerhouse PC with Cakewalk, the right gear and top end interfaces could deliver the same mix or better, really depending on the skills of the engineer.
I still have pro-tools but merged to Cakewalk years ago, I started my learning curve in 2006, I still have a Windows PC running Pro tools 7 just so that I could truthfully answer "YES" when they ask me -"Do you run pro-tools in your studio?"
I stopped at PT 7 that's it. Too many requirements and upgrades, too much $$$ down the drain, narrow choices for interfaces (at least back then) now you can use your own hardware finally, but it was painful and very constrictive.
Self-built PC, Windows 7 64, ASUS P8Z68-V, Intel Core i7 3770, 16 GB RAM, SSD Samsumg 840 Series 500GB, 2X 2TB SATA, GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB DDR5, Presonus Audio, M-Audio 8in/8out MidiSport 8X8/s / Edirol 3x.midi, Mbox, Mackie Control Univ. +2 ext= 24 automated faders / Monitors: M-Audio BX8a & Cerwin Vega Ve-15 / KEYS: M-Audio 88key & 61key, Sonar PE 8.5, Reason 5, Sony Pro 9, Waves Mercury, Blue Tubes Bundle, Melodyne 3
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Mooch4056
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/12 01:38:57
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Then there is the way sonar can integrate hardware with a good interface and the way Protools HD integrates hard ware. I think protools wins on that one.
Been listening to this argument protools vs sonar since 2005
Sonar does what I need it's a nice programs. If I could afford protools HD I'd probably buy it. So would you.
Beating a dead horse with this argument. Protools will always be the "standard" when you're working with big named famous bands.
Cheers,
Paul
From Now On Call Me Conquistador!
Donate to the cure Bapu Foundation Email: mooch4056@gmail.com for more info
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carlosagm79
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/12 02:05:37
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Rain
Freddie H
Rain
@ Rain, what a joke!
So the rest of 90% rest of the production and music (99,999% of all films) made by other software's then Pro Tools that are in x64bit doesn't cut it?
I would say the vast majority users use Cubase, Nuendo, SONAR X2, LOGIC PRO, STUDIO ONE, Live, Samplitude and DP not Pro Tools.
I would estimate that 90% in Europe use Cubase, Nuendo, Logic PRO, Studio one and Live. The most of all top producers, Red One, Swedish House Mafia, Max Martin + many of my other colleges that are from Sweden use Logic PRO or Cubase. I'm the only one from Sweden using SONAR X2 that I know of...
Not saying that other products don't cut it Freddie - I'm saying that a lot of the users of those software seem to have some kind on an inferiority complex so they are constantly feeling the need to justify their choice and bash Pro Tools.
I was talking about commercial recording studios putting out recordings that are known outside their respective scene.. You know? About real engineers, who know how to mic a drum or a guitar cabinet. Who mix other things than samples and synths. I'm talking about guys like Joe Baressi, recording Tool or Queens of the Stone Age.
Listen to 10 000 Days by Tool, or to the last Soundgarden and then tell me what's wrong w/ Pro Tools again. Tell me what they lack compared to all the amazing chart toppers that were produced using Cubase.
Come to Las Vegas and hear the amazing remixes and the impeccable quality of the Beatles music in the show Love. I guess Abbey Road couldn't afford Sonar and it's amazing 64 Bit engine, so they had to make due w/ Pro Tools.
I sat there for 2 hours and kept thinking: Poor, poor George Martin! if only PT had been 64 bit... If only... NOT.
I'll tell you this - in my travels and among all the musicians I've met, all the studios I have visited in the last two years - private and commercial - I've seen NOTHING but Pro Tools and Logic.
One guy that uses DP instead of Logic. One.
I'm not saying that other software isn't used by some people or that it isn't adequate. Sonar is good, Cubase is good, Nuendo is good... But the fact that they are 64 bit or this or that doesn't mean a thing in the face of the very simple fact that the industry uses Pro Tools.
And by industry, I don't mean the new breed of so-called independent professional DJ/Producers defecating "beats" on the internet out of their mom's house basement, remixing each other and gigging at the corner pub once a month.
Since DAWs and the internet, it's like there's no amateur anywhere anymore.
There is nothing wrong with Pro tools, you just have to realize that certain features like fast bouncing, 64 bits, and optimus latency engine with any ASIO compatible hardware..already others program had it for a bit long ago, it is a complicated issue, since PT came from a tight hardware/soft background, and now Intel microprocesors can do anything...almost
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carlosagm79
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/12 02:13:34
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Jeff Evans
Very well said Rain. At last the voice of reason. And like I have been saying the reason they are making millions of dollars using PT and 32 bit apps is because the music is good. Simple as that really. When the music is good nothing else really matters.
I am in Beatles mode right now reading a great book on John Lennon called 'Lennon' by Tim Riley. They had pretty restricted things back then, but the music! WOW! The writing and the emotion and the music just transcends it all.
John T
Yeah, ProTools is really part of a larger infrastructure of hardware, software, paid support, plus a bit of the lock-in effect of being the industry (and importantly, formal training) standard. I don't think "Pro" necessarily means "best", it means "Pro". In terms of a fairly standardised working environment for projects to easily pass from studio to studio, and for it to be easy to find a professional user of, Pro Tools is basically it. In terms of what these bits of software can do, they're really all roughly the same. Everything's got a few things that something else hasn't. 90%, they're about equivalent.
Of course, and even that can changue over time...
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Rain
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/04/12 02:27:36
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jscomposer
Thank God for the "express" version, $699 is a complete rip off.
Well, for the people who only need express, it might seem a rip off. But then again, try Nuendo or Sequoia... ;) $699 for Pro Tools. Sonar, Cubase, Digital Performer all retail for around $500 IIRC. Considering that Pro Tools buys you compatibility w/ most commercial studios, it can be worth it. If PT compatibility is something that you have to deal with day in day out, considering the time it takes to bounce tracks, import them, re-create the sessions back and forth... You do that a couple of times and you've wasted a lot more than $200 in studio time.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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