Mystic38
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/24 16:33:07
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and the winner of the shameless plug and hyperbole award goes to...:D Chrishubb2448 I think that the new Pro Tools 11 update could be worth all the trouble that is may cause. A LOT of the new features are great on 11. It finally has many features that all engineers have been waiting for. Pro Tools 11 redefines professional music and audio production for today’s workflows. From all-new audio and video engines and turbocharged 64-bit performance, to expanded metering and new HD video workflows. Pro Tools 11 also has 64-bit performance. This means much more accessible RAM to boost performance and you can creatively take your music and audio production to a whole new level, while handling bigger mixes with thousands of clips, take advantage of larger VI sampler sizes, and enjoy more system headroom. Pro Tools 11 is the dedicated low-latency input and playback buffers. This allows you to monitor record inputs on native systems with ultra-low latency — without sacrificing plug-in performance. To me, one of the best features of Pro Tools 11 is that you can now speed up delivery with offline bounce. With faster-than-real-time offline bounce, you can speed up your final mix or stem deliveries, up to 150x faster. Those little add-ons from Pro Tools 10 makes 11 better already. There are a ton more things that Avid has added and Im sure that you can read that on their website. One of my main things was the offline bounce, and I am finally happy that it is in 11. I have never used SONAR but I think that Pro Tools is still going to be the best recording software out there. - Chris Hubbard
HPE-580T with i7-950, 8G, 1.5T, ATI6850, Win7/64, Motu 828 III Hybrid, Motu Midi Express, Sonar Platinum, Komplete 9, Ableton Live 9 & Push 2, Melodyne Editor and other stuff, KRK VXT8 Monitors Virus Ti2 Polar, Fantom G6, Yamaha S70XS, Novation Nova, Novation Nova II, Korg MS2000, Waldorf Micro Q, NI Maschine Studio, TC-VoiceLive Rack, 2012 Gibson Les Paul Standard, 2001 Gibson Les Paul DC, 1999 Fender Am Hardtail Strat, Fender Blues Jr, Orange TH30/PPC212, Tak EF360GF, one mic, no talent.
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townstra
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/24 16:40:12
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I've been using Cakewalk software since '99 when I bought a copy of Guitar Tracks. I've thought about experimenting with Pro Tools but just haven't been able to justify the cost for what it includes. I'll probably stick with whatever the latest version of Sonar is unless I end up with a ton of money laying around I can't figure out how to spend.
Regards, Tracy Sonar Platinum, Harrison Mixbus 4, Melodyne 4 Studio, Slate Digital FG-X, ARC 2, Windows 10 Pro x64, Intel I7-4790@3.6ghz, 16 Gb RAM, GeForce GT730, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Behringer ADA8200, Prodipe Ribbon 8 monitors, Prodipe Pro5 monitors, Behringer B2030P monitors, Korg nanokontrol, Korg microKey, Samson Graphite MF8, rack full of channel strips and processors, lots of guitars, basses, and pedals. www.TracyTowns.com
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Studious
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/24 16:41:38
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Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
Studious
Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk] You should try SONAR. You found your way to our site after all! I use both as well and prefer SONAR personally. Most of the kids I show it to at Berklee are amazed at what SONAR can do :) Free 30 day trial is available if you're interested in checking it out: http://www.cakewalk.com/p...s/sonar/web-trial.aspx
Oh man, you had me there Ryan! I thought it was the X3 trial. Any idea when/if the X3 trial will be available? Thanks.
Lol sorry I didn't mean to deceive. Unfortunately I'm not sure though it's an active discussion. All hands are currently on deck for X3c and various "other" stuff. You still on the fence?
Ryan, I am indeed on the fence. I've been reading nice feedback on X3, and I really hope the updates and communication continue from Cakewalk. But my experience with X2a requires that I trial X3 before buying in again. Thanks for responding!
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SteveStrummerUK
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cowboydan
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/24 17:32:38
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☄ Helpfulby Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk] 2013/10/24 17:41:47
I believe Pro Tools is left-handed and Sonar right-handed. They both have to do with music , but different ways of using them . They are both DAWS, nothing more,nothing less.
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melmyers
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/24 19:52:15
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Pro Tools is not king because it's best. It's king because it was first. When a brand is positioned as the true first leader in the marketplace (like Coca-Cola, McDonalds, etc.), it's almost impossible to beat unless the company screws up bigtime or a vastly superior competitor arrives with a massive marketing budget to change customers' minds en masse. I was forced to use Pro Tools at a broadcast production facility in the early 2000's. Management research had concluded that it was the "industry standard", yet everyone there hated it, because it made easy tasks difficult. The company ended up switching to Cool Edit Pro and saving a lot of money while getting jobs done quicker. Not one single client noticed that anything had changed at all. For some time now, Sonar's features have outclassed Pro Tools, but that's gone unnoticed by Pro Tools aficiandos because they are happy with the product, and frankly, that is all they know. Most are probably too busy to spend any time demoing Sonar X3, but if they did, I believe they would start to fall out of love with Pro Tools.
Mel Myers Producer/Songwriter/Voiceover Talent Sonar Platinum 64-bit/Intel Quad Core i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz 16GB RAM/LGA1155 Motherboard/Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit /Focusrite 18i20/Cakewalk A-800 Pro/UAD-2 Quad PCIe/& a black and white Pomeranian who thinks he's the boss
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lfm
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/24 21:22:15
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Companies like Avid scare the **** out of me - they don't offer products to the market based on demand - they try to control market. 1. Software and hardware went together at start With a gun to their head they started support ASIO in general 2. They always use their own plugin standard - controlling every aspect of what they do With a gun to their head they let the VST wrappers exist 3. Now with AAX plugin standard they go even further - all plugin vendors must have some iLok code in there as well. They also prohibited wrappers for AAX from other format - to be able to control market still. We'll see how that goes - is a gun enough these days, would take a bomb probably. And the iLok thingy make them a no-no anyway. The path music industry is taking seems less and less these huge multimillion dollar creatures - wider range of studios are emerging with much smaller production cost. It's still a big industry with the old style studios - but probably will fade away - as will Avid. More and more studios/artists that fill the charts are selfmade.
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mudgel
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/24 21:49:51
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Freddie H PRO TOOLS ......... As many of you maybe remember PRO TOOLS 9 didn't even work or installed on VISTA, WINDOWS 7 x32 or x64 at first. The problems is still there in PRO TOOLS 10 not talk about all horrible workarounds still need to do with PRO TOOLS 10 x32bit just to make it work on a modern Windows 7 x64bit or Windows 7 x32 system. ........ Best Regards Freddie
That's very strange Freddie. I have PT 9 working fine in a Win x64 Laptop.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Royal Yaksman
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/24 22:28:55
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☄ Helpfulby e.Blue 2013/10/25 12:15:27
All the studios I've been in recently have had icons for Pro Tools, Logic, Sonar and Cubase sitting on their desktop. Some even had Reaper as well as a few of the usual post production editors Wavelab, Soundforge, Audition etc. I would put it to anyone who thinks pros only use PT? That in this day and age, it would be far more beneficial to cover as many bases of compatibility as possible. This is the same principle applied by those with massive plugin collections. They ammass the collection not so they can use all 1000 (plus?) VSTs in every project. But so they have compatibility with whoever they work with. It would be a potentially damaging business decision to turn away clients solely based on the fact that they do not have the program that you prefer to use.
Speaking to a couple of guys that run their own studio recently. They both remarked at how difficult it had become to remain viable and that learning multiple DAWs and having them available in their studio, was key to their current success. As it was stated much further back in this thread, the music is more important than the tools. Telling a potential client, who has some great songs, that they can't work with me until they port their project to PT? Probably means a higher likelihood of losing their business to a studio that's prepared to be flexible.
Yes, the time used to exist where a lot of studios would stand arms folded, shaking their heads at you if you couldn't provide them with a PT session. But thanks to the many (smaller & mid sized) studios offering multiple platforms and the tsunami of bedroom producers breaking through to the airwaves? The days of adapt or die have arrived. In recent years I haven't had a single issue dealing with studios when using projects from Cubase or Sonar. As such my copy of PT8 hasn't been fired up in about two and a half years.
((*Apologies if something like this has already been said, the thread was kind of doing my head in, so I skipped a bunch of pages*))
Royal Yaksman HP Phoenix i7 3.9ghz 7600 - Roland Quad Capture - CbB - SD2 Metal Foundry/Roots Stix - NI Komplete 8 - Amplitube 3 & 4 - Addictive Drums 2 - Halion 6 - Izotope Musician Bundle - Waves Stuff - Melodyne Studio - AIR 3 - Revoice 3 - Sssshhhhh don't tell anyone but also Studio One 4 - Cubase 9.5 - Samplitude Pro X3 - FL Studio 20 - Mixbus 4 - Reaper 5 - And a big arsed pocket full of dreams (deceased or otherwise.)
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markyzno
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/25 09:16:30
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PT owns the post production film world. Does my blasted head in, Sonar will address the catch up on Video issues with X3d tho which I CANT WAIT FOR. When you deliver a film the Distribution companies SPECIFICALLY ask for Pro Tools sessions of the audio work. Try saying to your Producer "I run Sonar, I dont use PT"...Meh.... I hate Avid, I hate the control they have on the market and I only use PT to deliver. All my creative work is done with Sonar. Sod PT and sod Avid, but its a necessary evil in my industry.
Sonar Platinum 64 bit > Pro tools 10.3.2 >Intel i7 3770K > 16Gb Ram > Gigabyte Z77-D3H Motherboard> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2 GB > ATi RADEON HD5700 > 240GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD> Win 10 home 64 bit> Delta 1010 > MOTU Audio Express > MA-15D's > NI Ultimate 9 > NI Kontrol S61 1.1 > NI MAschine Studio 2.3 / KORG MS-20 Mini - Arturia MicroBrute > KORG SQ1 - KORG Kaoss Pad KP3 > iPad and IO Dock 2 running various bits > Bunch of guitars >Sound Design on IMDB --
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John T
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/25 11:53:11
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Yeah, I've got PT, which I only use for importing and exporting stuff when that's a requirement. It's fine, I don't hate it or anything, but there's nothing special about it.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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sharke
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/25 12:04:05
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I started learning audio with Pro Tools and quite liked it, but then again that probably had a lot to do with the novelty factor of using a DAW in the first place and the fact that I'd never used the likes of Sonar, Cubase, Live etc. My main problem with it was stability and the fact that I ended up having to ReWire Reaper into it to host VSTi's because Pro Tools kept crashing. Having spent a good year or so with Sonar I can say without doubt that Sonar is far superior, however if there's one thing I miss about Pro Tools it's the clip library. Having all clips at hand in a convenient list is a major organizational bonus, especially if you take a clip-based approach to arrangement (especially for electronic styles).
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Andrew Rossa
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/25 12:16:49
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Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
Chrishubb2448 I think that the new Pro Tools 11 update could be worth all the trouble that is may cause. A LOT of the new features are great on 11. It finally has many features that all engineers have been waiting for. Pro Tools 11 redefines professional music and audio production for today’s workflows. From all-new audio and video engines and turbocharged 64-bit performance, to expanded metering and new HD video workflows. Pro Tools 11 also has 64-bit performance. This means much more accessible RAM to boost performance and you can creatively take your music and audio production to a whole new level, while handling bigger mixes with thousands of clips, take advantage of larger VI sampler sizes, and enjoy more system headroom. Pro Tools 11 is the dedicated low-latency input and playback buffers. This allows you to monitor record inputs on native systems with ultra-low latency — without sacrificing plug-in performance. To me, one of the best features of Pro Tools 11 is that you can now speed up delivery with offline bounce. With faster-than-real-time offline bounce, you can speed up your final mix or stem deliveries, up to 150x faster. Those little add-ons from Pro Tools 10 makes 11 better already. There are a ton more things that Avid has added and Im sure that you can read that on their website. One of my main things was the offline bounce, and I am finally happy that it is in 11. I have never used SONAR but I think that Pro Tools is still going to be the best recording software out there. - Chris Hubbard
You should try SONAR. You found your way to our site after all! I use both as well and prefer SONAR personally. Most of the kids I show it to at Berklee are amazed at what SONAR can do :) Free 30 day trial is available if you're interested in checking it out: http://www.cakewalk.com/p...s/sonar/web-trial.aspx
I love it when someone says they have never used something but declare something else better. Very objective opinion. And yeah, faster than realtime bounce is very cutting edge.
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e.Blue
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/25 12:23:19
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Royal Yaksman All the studios I've been in recently have had icons for Pro Tools, Logic, Sonar and Cubase sitting on their desktop. Some even had Reaper as well as a few of the usual post production editors Wavelab, Soundforge, Audition etc. I would put it to anyone who thinks pros only use PT? That in this day and age, it would be far more beneficial to cover as many bases of compatibility as possible. This is the same principle applied by those with massive plugin collections. They ammass the collection not so they can use all 1000 (plus?) VSTs in every project. But so they have compatibility with whoever they work with. It would be a potentially damaging business decision to turn away clients solely based on the fact that they do not have the program that you prefer to use.
Speaking to a couple of guys that run their own studio recently. They both remarked at how difficult it had become to remain viable and that learning multiple DAWs and having them available in their studio, was key to their current success. As it was stated much further back in this thread, the music is more important than the tools. Telling a potential client, who has some great songs, that they can't work with me until they port their project to PT? Probably means a higher likelihood of losing their business to a studio that's prepared to be flexible.
Yes, the time used to exist where a lot of studios would stand arms folded, shaking their heads at you if you couldn't provide them with a PT session. But thanks to the many (smaller & mid sized) studios offering multiple platforms and the tsunami of bedroom producers breaking through to the airwaves? The days of adapt or die have arrived. In recent years I haven't had a single issue dealing with studios when using projects from Cubase or Sonar. As such my copy of PT8 hasn't been fired up in about two and a half years.
((*Apologies if something like this has already been said, the thread was kind of doing my head in, so I skipped a bunch of pages*))
Thanks for this post. The days of slamming unfamiliar products in favor of what you have become comfortable with are pretty much over. The studios that will survive in the long run are those that are able to say yes when others are saying no. That being said, PT11 currently runs like crap on my current DAW. I never thought I would say this but I'd rather use PT10...which also frustrated me to no end. My biggest issue with Pro-Tools is that it is very picky about simply starting-up, especially when dealing with higher sample rates. Once I can actually get a project loaded, my main focus is usually figuring out how to get the project exported as an OMF. Then it can be imported into SONAR, where I'm much more comfortable and efficient. -e
post edited by e.Blue - 2013/10/25 12:34:56
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cparmerlee
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/25 12:30:28
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Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk] I love it when someone says they have never used something but declare something else better. Very objective opinion. And yeah, faster than realtime bounce is very cutting edge.
Wow, is this saying that PT has never had fast bounce until now!!!????? It is hard for me to imagine how professional studios could put up with that speed all these years, considering time is money and so on. And what's with the "up to 150%". With good hardware, fast bounce can go a lot faster than that. I must be misunderstanding something basic here.
DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2 OS: Windows 10 64-bit CPU: Haswell 4790 4.0 GHz, 4 core, 8 thread Memory: 16 GB Video: GTX-760Ti Storage: Sandisk SSD 500GB for active projects. ReadyNAS 20 TB for long-term storagesonocrafters.com
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Beepster
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/25 12:32:20
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Who bumped this sloppy turd back to the first page? Stahp!
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John T
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/25 12:34:15
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Turning down work based on file formats strikes me as a basic lack of a key competence. You can either get sorted out to deal with whatever comes your way or work with the client to figure out how to pass stuff back and forth. It's not rocket science.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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markyzno
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/25 12:40:08
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John T Turning down work based on file formats strikes me as a basic lack of a key competence. You can either get sorted out to deal with whatever comes your way or work with the client to figure out how to pass stuff back and forth. It's not rocket science.
Try telling that a Film Distribution company when you are going through deliverables.
Sonar Platinum 64 bit > Pro tools 10.3.2 >Intel i7 3770K > 16Gb Ram > Gigabyte Z77-D3H Motherboard> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2 GB > ATi RADEON HD5700 > 240GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD> Win 10 home 64 bit> Delta 1010 > MOTU Audio Express > MA-15D's > NI Ultimate 9 > NI Kontrol S61 1.1 > NI MAschine Studio 2.3 / KORG MS-20 Mini - Arturia MicroBrute > KORG SQ1 - KORG Kaoss Pad KP3 > iPad and IO Dock 2 running various bits > Bunch of guitars >Sound Design on IMDB --
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Beepster
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/25 12:48:01
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cparmerlee
Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk] I love it when someone says they have never used something but declare something else better. Very objective opinion. And yeah, faster than realtime bounce is very cutting edge.
Wow, is this saying that PT has never had fast bounce until now!!!????? It is hard for me to imagine how professional studios could put up with that speed all these years, considering time is money and so on. And what's with the "up to 150%". With good hardware, fast bounce can go a lot faster than that. I must be misunderstanding something basic here.
PT has been WAY behind of MANY fronts over the years. They only implemented 64bit capability in recent versions. They refuse to support third party plugs or hardware that don't conform to their dinosaur hivemind. They charge WAY more than the market can bear. They are basically "industry standarding" themselves out of business. Their efforts to reach out to the "consumer" market was laughable and failed miserably and from what I've heard they are returning back to their old, expensive, restrictive business model. They are losing partners and market share. Now if you are running a pro studio and have tens of thousands of dollars to get all the hardware and everything set up properly, sure... it's probably a pretty sweet set up. The music world has moved on though and the average musician up to even pro studios are sick of their crap. Like the big labels, movie and newspaper industries and many other monolithic ventures that refuse to adapt they will fail if they try to control the market. What they should focus on and what they do seem to be focusing on is becoming more of a high end boutique type company that does what they did originally. Cater to the top end pros in the top end studios who can afford it. Trying to reach out to us plebes with inferior products after years of shutting us out of the market and treating everyone like moron pirates didn't work and will not work. Avid... scale back and do what you do well. Custom installs for high end pros. The rest of us have more than enough options these days without your outdated business model. Maybe you can keep your company afloat.
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markyzno
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/25 13:06:07
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Beep, I am a high end pro and all that jazz, but I still choose Sonar (btw great post) As I have said, Avid are a Necessary EVIL. I cant see the power balance shifting anytime soon, especially as Cakewalk have gone Tascam, Avid have Euphonix....Cakewalk went the right way with Roland but obviously that relationship didnt work out (much to my tears).. Anyway, Sonar rules IS a creative DAW over PT. Using PT makes you feel like you are on the naughty step, it dictates YOU. Sonar is far more user friendly. Always has been and always will.
Sonar Platinum 64 bit > Pro tools 10.3.2 >Intel i7 3770K > 16Gb Ram > Gigabyte Z77-D3H Motherboard> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2 GB > ATi RADEON HD5700 > 240GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD> Win 10 home 64 bit> Delta 1010 > MOTU Audio Express > MA-15D's > NI Ultimate 9 > NI Kontrol S61 1.1 > NI MAschine Studio 2.3 / KORG MS-20 Mini - Arturia MicroBrute > KORG SQ1 - KORG Kaoss Pad KP3 > iPad and IO Dock 2 running various bits > Bunch of guitars >Sound Design on IMDB --
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markyzno
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/25 13:07:18
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The last time I went into a mix studio for film and they used Sonar was when? ............... Never!
Sonar Platinum 64 bit > Pro tools 10.3.2 >Intel i7 3770K > 16Gb Ram > Gigabyte Z77-D3H Motherboard> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2 GB > ATi RADEON HD5700 > 240GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD> Win 10 home 64 bit> Delta 1010 > MOTU Audio Express > MA-15D's > NI Ultimate 9 > NI Kontrol S61 1.1 > NI MAschine Studio 2.3 / KORG MS-20 Mini - Arturia MicroBrute > KORG SQ1 - KORG Kaoss Pad KP3 > iPad and IO Dock 2 running various bits > Bunch of guitars >Sound Design on IMDB --
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stevee9c6
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/25 13:23:41
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☄ Helpfulby cryophonik 2013/10/25 14:30:18
The post by Chris Hubbard is simple trolling. Pro Tools has a professional user base that dwarfs anything else here in the USA. Why? You have to go back a few years to a time prior to seriously powerful native computers. Back then, PT required a AVID interface that consisted of parallel CPU's that could handle larger sessions. They built their entire brand around a non-native DAW that required a host of proprietary hardware. Some here do not remember when it would costs serious money to have the kind of native processing power we currently take for granted. Once you bought into the PT pathway, you had to continue in order to use the hardware you had purchased. This was, and remains, an expensive system. Entry level PT11 HDX system will set you back around $10k unless you are trading in an older HD system. PT11 native is a hobbled system compared with PT11HDX. Yes, it is PT. But is has limitations when you compare them. The folks at AVID are not stupid. They knew how klutzy prior 32 bit versions of PT performed compared to 64 bit Sonar, Nuendo, Cubase, etc. They had to abandon their RTAS format and do a complete rewrite of code to bring it inline with modern DAW programs. Thus AAX was born. So far, there has been a fairly rapid porting of third party plugs to AAX. All of my Ozone, Melodyne, Breverb, Softube, Toontrack, and Waves plugs are already ported and work just fine. UAD showed their AAX at AES and Slate has promised to have it in 2013. I am NOT a PT fanboy. I far prefer Sonar. I use Sonar every single day and PT11 only when I have to for a particular project. DAW software in all the various brands is simply a tool. I try, and continue to explore all of the tools available to me. I've experimented with Cubase as well as Reaper, FL, and Studio One. I got into PT because I needed to have this tool available. I always come back to Sonar because it is like putting on a pair of old shoes. It's comfortable and fits. The strength of PT has always been in their hardware and the somewhat captive audience they have built. PT11 is really a homerun for them. They now have come into the 64 bit world and implemented many functions we as Sonar users have had for years. I do not believe their core demographic bears much resemblance to the Sonar demographic. As noted by a prior post, they have a virtual lock on the post world. We as a Sonar community can state the obvious... they are late to the party. However, it seems a bit silly to cite this as an argument over platform. I think we should all just get back to exploring X3. I am anxiously awaiting X3C.
Steve www.stevestallingsmusic.com
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John T
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/25 13:47:29
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markyzno
John T Turning down work based on file formats strikes me as a basic lack of a key competence. You can either get sorted out to deal with whatever comes your way or work with the client to figure out how to pass stuff back and forth. It's not rocket science.
Try telling that a Film Distribution company when you are going through deliverables.
Ah, no, I meant it the other around. If that's how they operate, then it's the audio engineer's job to fit into their system, is what I was saying.
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Beepster
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/25 14:16:59
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markyzno Beep, I am a high end pro and all that jazz, but I still choose Sonar (btw great post) As I have said, Avid are a Necessary EVIL. I cant see the power balance shifting anytime soon, especially as Cakewalk have gone Tascam, Avid have Euphonix....Cakewalk went the right way with Roland but obviously that relationship didnt work out (much to my tears).. Anyway, Sonar rules IS a creative DAW over PT. Using PT makes you feel like you are on the naughty step, it dictates YOU. Sonar is far more user friendly. Always has been and always will.
If I had that kind of money to drop on a DAW I'd be back on Nuendo... and STILL have cash left over and more hardware/plug in freedom. If I lost clients... well that's their own loss. The type of people I'd prefer to deal with are more open minded than all that. I used to work at a film company (as a lowly dreg) and all the editors HATED their Avid systems. HATED them. Sonar to me seems to be at the cutting edge as a creative tool. If they just got their stability issues under control and combed through the entire program to fix all the broken crap throughout the program I feel they would be the standard everyone else strives for. They just don't have the resources though. Perhaps the Gibson acquisition will change that. Roland sure didn't take advantage of the opportunity... well not in a productive way anyway. I think they just pulled a semi vulture capitalist maneuver and made sure they saw losses for the right offs, scammed code and ideas while stealing staff. I bet we'll see a brand new DAW from Roland in the near future. Mark it on the calendar. This is the day I called that Roland will release it's own audio software and it will likely look a LOT like Sonar.
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cryophonik
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/25 14:39:05
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stevee9c6 The post by Chris Hubbard is simple trolling. Pro Tools has a professional user base that dwarfs anything else here in the USA. Why? You have to go back a few years to a time prior to seriously powerful native computers. Back then, PT required a AVID interface that consisted of parallel CPU's that could handle larger sessions. They built their entire brand around a non-native DAW that required a host of proprietary hardware. Some here do not remember when it would costs serious money to have the kind of native processing power we currently take for granted. Once you bought into the PT pathway, you had to continue in order to use the hardware you had purchased. This was, and remains, an expensive system. Entry level PT11 HDX system will set you back around $10k unless you are trading in an older HD system. PT11 native is a hobbled system compared with PT11HDX. Yes, it is PT. But is has limitations when you compare them. The folks at AVID are not stupid. They knew how klutzy prior 32 bit versions of PT performed compared to 64 bit Sonar, Nuendo, Cubase, etc. They had to abandon their RTAS format and do a complete rewrite of code to bring it inline with modern DAW programs. Thus AAX was born. So far, there has been a fairly rapid porting of third party plugs to AAX. All of my Ozone, Melodyne, Breverb, Softube, Toontrack, and Waves plugs are already ported and work just fine. UAD showed their AAX at AES and Slate has promised to have it in 2013. I am NOT a PT fanboy. I far prefer Sonar. I use Sonar every single day and PT11 only when I have to for a particular project. DAW software in all the various brands is simply a tool. I try, and continue to explore all of the tools available to me. I've experimented with Cubase as well as Reaper, FL, and Studio One. I got into PT because I needed to have this tool available. I always come back to Sonar because it is like putting on a pair of old shoes. It's comfortable and fits. The strength of PT has always been in their hardware and the somewhat captive audience they have built. PT11 is really a homerun for them. They now have come into the 64 bit world and implemented many functions we as Sonar users have had for years. I do not believe their core demographic bears much resemblance to the Sonar demographic. As noted by a prior post, they have a virtual lock on the post world. We as a Sonar community can state the obvious... they are late to the party. However, it seems a bit silly to cite this as an argument over platform. I think we should all just get back to exploring X3. I am anxiously awaiting X3C.
Nice post, Steve! I'm also a PT user and, while it's not my go-to DAW nor do I consider myself a fanboy, I think that PT11 is a huge step in the right direction and, quite frankly, I enjoy using it (but prefer X3 much more, of course!). BTW, not sure if you realize it, but NI has released AAX64 plugins for many of its instruments/effects this week - for some reason, it wasn't widely announced, but it looks like most of the major players are finally PT11-compatible. Anyway, I'm not sure why these PT-vs-Sonar threads keep appearing here and I really wish that Sonar users would stop being so insecure and aggravated by Avid/PT. They're both fine pieces of software with different core demographics, so there's no reason that the market can't accommodate both. Now, where's that X3c update?!!! (not that I feel I'm missing anything in X3b). Cakewalk really knocked it out of the park with this one.
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Grumbleweed_
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/25 14:43:46
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Chrishubb2448 I think that the new Pro Tools 11 update could be worth all the trouble that is may cause. A LOT of the new features are great on 11. It finally has many features that all engineers have been waiting for. Pro Tools 11 redefines professional music and audio production for today’s workflows. From all-new audio and video engines and turbocharged 64-bit performance, to expanded metering and new HD video workflows. Pro Tools 11 also has 64-bit performance. This means much more accessible RAM to boost performance and you can creatively take your music and audio production to a whole new level, while handling bigger mixes with thousands of clips, take advantage of larger VI sampler sizes, and enjoy more system headroom. Pro Tools 11 is the dedicated low-latency input and playback buffers. This allows you to monitor record inputs on native systems with ultra-low latency — without sacrificing plug-in performance. To me, one of the best features of Pro Tools 11 is that you can now speed up delivery with offline bounce. With faster-than-real-time offline bounce, you can speed up your final mix or stem deliveries, up to 150x faster. Those little add-ons from Pro Tools 10 makes 11 better already. There are a ton more things that Avid has added and Im sure that you can read that on their website. One of my main things was the offline bounce, and I am finally happy that it is in 11. I have never used SONAR but I think that Pro Tools is still going to be the best recording software out there. - Chris Hubbard
Why would anyone respond to this? Grum.
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cowboydan
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/25 14:45:12
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Maybe it will be called R-2 like starwars.
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LpMike75
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/25 15:59:58
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As someone who uses both, I'll drop my 2 cents. I prefer to track, record and mix in Sonar. I like the included plug ins, track templates and effect chains. Continuing on... the Midi functions/editor, unlimited track/bus count. Sonar has several things over Pro Tools. When it comes to any post production, audio editing and project/file sharing, Pro Tools is more advanced and the workflow is super fast. Sonar doesn't have all the snapping options and navigation hot keys that Pro Tools does. Also, the video engine in Sonar is light years behind Pro Tools. ..just for some examples. If you are just recording you or your band in a music situation, I think Sonar is a much better value
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M_Glenn_M
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/25 16:31:21
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It's still hard to reply "Sonar" and have everyone look blank and say "Huh, never heard of it" when they ask what you are using. Most seem to think Garageband, Cubase or Logic are the main alternatives to PT. I feel like the underdog.
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John T
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Re:Ok - Pro Tools 11 vs Sonar
2013/10/25 16:40:35
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M_Glenn_M It's still hard to reply "Sonar" and have everyone look blank and say "Huh, never heard of it" when they ask what you are using.
I get that reaction quite a lot. It doesn't bother me, personally.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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