Can you post screen shots of your Options - Audio information  Show all 3 tabs(general, advanced etc) plus the shot  when you hit the Asio panel button.
Maybe someone can spot something that is checked or unchecked that may be causing the problems.

Sorry double post. 

:( I wish I knew more about coding/engine stuff...but like I've said, all I know is the proof is in the pudding:
My PC i7 build is more than enough to run at least a dozen "CPU hungry" synths, plus convo reverb, you name it, etc.

Yet, it spikes with just 1 or 2 synths....

And, even though I've only used Reaper for a few weeks, the only thing I truly "love" about it is the fact that I can literally use as many synths as I want - and it barely hits 25% max.  That's impressive, imo.

I want to remain loyal to SONAR, because it is the most powerful DAW/MIDI tool I've ever used as a working composer.  But this CPU problem needs to be looked at again.  If Reaper can do it...

I waited to post here until after I tried every conceivable combination of CPU/engine/buffer settings I could think of..and still, SONAR cripples so easily....

:(

Any more suggestions?
Thanks guys...I appreciate it...

Also, keep in mind - the poster above me is @ 96khz,.....I'm still working at 44/24 and this happens to me...oy....

I don't need the inputs checked at this time, per say, because I am not using my analog inputs.  But yes, I agree with you - and usually, I do have them selected.  But since the past few projects of mine are pure VSTi based, I didn't bother with them...

Yes, my ATI Catalyst GPU/drivers are all current.  And I've maxxed out my buffers well past 512 too....didnt make any difference, sad to say.

Thanks for the help everyone, hope this can get fixed so everyone can be happy :)

But what is the point in having a fire breathing dragon of a computer that wont run under 512?
I have a 6 core AMD with the fastest hard disk I could find  and 4gb of reasonable ram.  It too doesnt like running under 256 with sonar8.5.3  but will run 64 under reaper2.5.8(!) with no problems.

I had assumed (relatively new rig and very little studio time at present) that it was a meatware error on my part.
Hope I am right!  I only had Proteus VX, B4II, Kontakt and Superior Drummer running at the time....

Double Post

I hope SONAR can work this out, as I've said before I love Cakewalk....big fan for years....the only thing I like about Reaper is the fact that I can load 3 to 4 times as many synths as I can in SONAR.....

We do know that Sonar is quite capable of heavy load, low latency processing. So the question remains why your system can't. At this point I would probably strip everything down and start over. I have had systems that I tweaked to death, and wiping the hard drive and starting over sorted things out nicely.

For the computer bios, have you disabled the HPET, and the various power saving and CPU throttling options? (sorry if you already let us know that you've done this...) Disable unnecessary devices, remove unnecessary cards that aren't needed for audio--even if you might need them later, disable/take them out for now. Wipe your hard drive (back-up important stuff, registrations, serial numbers, all that. A disk image is best so you can restore it if need be) and install windows and the drivers to get your chipset and soundcard up and running. Install Sonar. Don't tweak anything. Any improvement?

Now that I see you are using M-Audio Drivers I would start there....

I have had problems with M-Audio drivers conflicting with other drivers(like the ones you get with windows) causing many issues including audio dropp-out and even no playback.... even when you have selected drive sharing it can still have issues.

The other thing to watch out for is that the uninstallers do not remove everything... so if you uninstall you hardware driver, go into the program files where it was stored and delete any remaining contents... then reboot and install drivers again, reboot and see what happens....

M-audio drivers have been issues when I have designed live sound systems with Yamaha PM5D's and tried to connect with the console via laptop.. the M-Audio drivers had to be removed before we could connect to the desks...... or it just wouldn't work.

Other than that your guess is as good as mine at this point.

Good Luck

Just tried another one:

NI Massive (newest build)

Magic Jungle Preset (64 voice polyphony)
All voices maxxed out/64 in Reaper 3 = 4.8% CPU usage (DAW meter not actual Task Manager CPU)

Magic Jungle Preset (64 voice polyphony)
All voices maxxed out/64 in SONAR 8.5.3 = 44-58% CPU usage (DAW meter not actual Task Manager CPU)

I can go on and on with over a dozen synths...probably more.  I spent my hard earned money (instead of paying student loans lol) on a new PC and many new synths for my TV projects....and I can't even use them in SONAR unless I freeze one by one, and forget layering anything - unless I'm using maybe Dreamstation or Pentagon - those seem to run fine w/ CPU...

My PC is well above the specs needed to run multiple instances of these 'types' of high- caliber CPU heavy synths.  Sadly, SONAR seems to not like me for doing so :(   Temp fix, use Reaper (although I prefer MIDI editing in SONAR) - but, I am very frustrated.  I've heard other stories of similar issues, from my peers and online - all happen to be either quad cores or higher/newer. 

To those who know much more than me about coding/engine stuff:  what would make one DAW (SONAR) absolutely inefficient with almost all CPU hungry synths - and yet other DAWs barely hiccup when you add 12 instances of the most CPU intensive synths out there?  Doesn't even break a sweat.

Remember, my task manager/i7 CPU itself never ever spikes - even with SONAR.  That's always constant around a whopping 8-15% with 12+ synths running high polyphony.  It's just SONAR and how it 'sees' the synths/CPU load....

Thanks for any tips, much appreciated.

It happens no matter what company puts the synth out - the only compromise though is only "CPU intensive" synths seem to have the problem.  I'll explain in a moment.  Here, I made a brief video showing my issue.  (see below please)

Now remember, I don't have an issue "seeing" the CPU be so dang high in SONAR - as long as I don't have any performance issues/cracks/freezes at my polyphony settings - I don't care if it says 78% all the time :)
But, all I know is - something is wrong within SONAR, and no other host I've tried.  In this video, I had massive (no pun intended) cracks and pops and ultimately had to close the app and pause my video to close it correctly and open Reaper 3.

It seems that SONAR is reporting the CPU per synth, correctly - but it's using that so inefficiently that it's causing the DAW itself to crash.  You'll see in my video, using NI Massive - that the synth itself produces heavy CPU - around 40-50% when you use 64voices - I'm ok with that, It's a high quality synth - and that 40-50% is a little above what SONAR CPU shows more or less (which locked up by the way, once I tried to stop it from hanging).  In Reaper, the GUI of Massive shows the 50% internally for the synth, but the DAW CPU meter itself is a fraction of that.  I have zero clicks and pops and dropouts in Reaper 3 - same exact setup.  The video should help.

Please forgive the haste in making it, I'm in between jobs today and only have an hour for lunch.  It may be choppy at times but I had to rush it, I will have more time later tonight if I need to redo it...thanks for watching and try to help.  It's about 1 minute long.

Please....if there is anything you suggest, let me know :(  I have so many examples of how SONAR does this, it doesn't matter what vendor...it just can't be any other small thing I'm missing.  It may be a small tweak, but it's absolutely SONAR at this point. 

Cakewalk synths that lock up at times are just Rapture/DimPro - but I can use many more instances of those - those are "best" case synths, as a compromise in CPU usage here.  I would have to use like 20 Raptures to get CPU at 50% lol -

Video link/Video download (5MB) MOV file:  http://www.mediafire.com/?pupa2vqtw721ybk


Thanks everyone....I really do appreciate the help.  I'm so close to giving up :(

benjamincharles


Greetings!

I have a problem that I really need some help with.  I have built my own PC, an upgrade to my last custom build, and it's an i7 860/4GB RAM/2TB beast :)  I'm running Windows 7 32 bit as well.

I have already been reading up all on things related to core parking and such; I believe that is all taken care of.  I took care of everything in the BIOS and all seems well, for the most part.

Basically, my problem is...I spent all this money on a new PC and I'm still getting clicks/pop/dropouts in SONAR running certain soft synths.  Yes, I know that they are CPU intensive, but my actual All_CPU gadget shows literally 3-5% load when SONAR is showing up to 55% at times!  How can I balance this out?  The point of getting this new PC was to finally get to use synths I wanted :(

Now, I managed to get dropouts gone for the most part, but often times as I said, my actual i7 CPU is at 4% and SONAR is at 45%.  I get massive clicks/pops at 45% CPU in SONAR, but yet my CPU itself is laughing and barely breaking a sweat.

At first I thought it was a synth-problem, such as poor coding or whatever - it happens, I know.  But 4 or 5 synths now have this problem, and I have no idea what is going on.  I've test Rhino2, Largo, polyKB, and even Zebra2. 

I know that my sound card works fine as well, I'm using the AP192 which works flawlessly on all applications.  I've played with the buffers on the settings as well, maxxing it out to like 4096 samples!  Still....at 40-50% CPU in SONAR, major cracks and pops.

Can someone tell me why my actual i7 is barely working at ALL (4-5%) load, but in SONAR it's about to crumble running just one of those soft synths? :( Please tell me what I can do to make my SONAR CPU low like my i7 CPU.  It's very frustrating.

In Reaper 3, the CPU for all the synths I mentioned stay at around 4-6% CPU (in DAW)....which basically matches my actual i7 CPU readout, although I know they are technically measuring "different" types of CPU, so to speak....but still.  In Reaper, I actually load one instance of each of the synths above (combined), and the CPU total was about 10%.  That same combination of synths/polyphony brought SONAR up to 67% CPU.  What's going on here?  Am I missing a setting?  Surely this can't be only me...If you would like screenshots, let me know...if its easier to help.

Why does SONAR have a 30-40% increase of CPU per synth, in this case?  And, of course, I prefer to work in SONAR because that's what I've been using for years now...but, this is very concerning.  Can someone tell me how I can get SONAR to respond more efficiently to CPU/soft synth usage?  Thanks :)

Thank you so much everyone....

X64bit

You using wrong platform my friend. Upgrade to ----> Windows 7 x64.

You will be amazed of what a big the difference it actually is when you finally decide to upgrade to Windows 7 x64. Just change your OS to x64 is like you built a new computer again if you use exactly the same RIG and component. I will be about x3 up to 10 times faster then today--

Also this bug of your will disappear directly and probably many other problems you have today....


Best Regards
Freddie

Progtronic:

For the record, you are 64bit - I am 32bit....if that matters....hope you have no issues in the future ;)

Freddie:

I will go x64 eventually, yes.  There is absolutely no reason why x64 should affect this in particular - it's not like I'm streaming heavy PLAY instruments from RAM, etc.

I agree that x64 has SO much more to offer in RAM upgrades, load times, future proof, etc - but x86 machines in this case should NOT be crashing with one soft synth in a DAW - CPU heavy or not.  My PC has more than enough power to run what I'm trying to run.   I know you're very pro-x64 which is fine - but I really can't see that being the absolute problem why SONAR has CPU glitches and all other hosts do not.  It's night and day here.  6% vs. 50%?
Did you watch the video?  It's just a VSTi...one.

With respect, I am not using the wrong platform.  It's not black and white: some x86 users don't have my problem, and some x64 users do share my problem....it's much more than that.  It's related to the SONAR engine, it has to be the majority of the issue...how it handles CPU/synth loads...

It's a SONAR issue, to a high degree - more than anything else. 

Also, I do not OC any of my PCs.

I hope this thread can help others in my boat, with similar "CPU inefficiencies" in SONAR....

What parameters in the AUD INI file could help me?  Besides the thread and CPU meter ones...?
And yes, Freddie - I will be x64 soon ;) Promise! hehe....

I would never overclock a DAW, but that's just me...I'm like that.

I know Freddie you're trying to help - and I appreciate it ;)  But, having to buy a new OS x64 is not something I'm able to do at this time - there needs to be a better fix universally for all of us with more-or-less the "same" CPU/SONAR issue....it's more common than you may think....sadly.

I will go to x64 when my other applications are more stable with 64bit updates and drivers are more stable...the option to simply pack up shop and buy Win7 x64 is not on the table.  Nor should it really be, imo.  There is absolutely zero guarantee that x64 would fix this problem 100% - it's possible, but as I've said before - people from both OS camps have similar CPU problems, x86 and 64.   The only common factors from my personal research is SONAR 8 and SONAR 8.5 - x86 and x64 - running either quad core intels or i7 quads (or greater)....fwiw.

Prog:
I love ASUS :) My new motherboard is a BEAST!

tarsier

I have so many examples of how SONAR does this, it doesn't matter what vendor...it just can't be any other small thing I'm missing. It may be a small tweak, but it's absolutely SONAR at this point.

Still... not necessarily a Sonar problem in and of itself. It could be that Sonar is triggering a problem on your system that other apps aren't.  And given that many of us are successfully using Sonar at low latencies with multiple instances of the the same synths that you are trying at least shows that it is possible.

Your video wasn't too helpful in that it didn't demonstrate the crackling/dropouts that you're describing. Or I didn't hear them. Is there a soundtrack in there?

Did you ever let us know what motherboard/CPU/RAM you're using? I did a quick skim back through the thread and didn't notice that info. How much RAM? Did you try removing sticks of ram and see if that changed anything?

As for aud.ini, the only time I've come across symptoms of crackling in small projects and the problem was due to aud.ini was when I was using WDM mode and changed my soundcard buffer without re-profiling. ASIO shouldn't have that problem.  Have you deleted aud.ini and let Sonar re-create it?

The other times when I've had crackles in small projects was due to some other device/driver in the computer that was misbehaving.

To be clear: did you uninstall Sonar, delete ALL of its folders in both programs and appdata, and delete ALL of its registry keys? Reboot, and reinstall Sonar?

Have you tried installing XP and the tried-and-true M-Audio version 5.10.00.0052 drivers? Just as a testcase?

Agreed that it is not 100% proven yet to be SONAR.  It sure is looking like it's partially responsible though...I agree that it's probably trigger of some kind.

I have swapped out my 4GB RAM yes, into the inverted matching slots - nothing changed.  My motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Pro...6813131621   My CPU: i7 860  My RAM:  http://www.newegg.com/Pro...x?Item=N82E16820145260
(I also tried: http://www.newegg.com/Pro...=N82E16820231311  )

Made no difference at all.

I tried my UA101 sound card (just grabbed it).  Same exact scenario - even at insanely high/buffer latency (4096+)...

If people have the synths I have, and have SONAR 8.5.3 x86 Win7 32 - and it's not doing this....it still could be many other factors, as you say.
Though, even if you ignore the visible CPU signs - Reaper still beats SONAR by having zero cracks/pop/freezes.  Even MiniHost is glitch free...

I reset the AUD file, yup.  I also uninstalled SONAR - reinstalled it.  Then did a complete OS wipe/restore from Paragon backup...
Same thing.

The fact now that I bring in my UA101 still proves (to me at least) that SONAR is at least 'primarily' responsible, trigger or not - seeing as how other DAWs work seamlessly and error-free with these CPU hungry synths. 

And no, I forgot to include audio on my video lol - I was in a rush earlier.  But, as I said, the CPU shows what I am talking about (even if Reaper CPU = task manager) - the point being that in SONAR, the visual CPU caused massive spikes/glitches/crackles - Reaper 5% CPU did not.  So, keeping that in mind  - I guess you just have to trust me ;)

I'm starting to feel like this can never be fixed :(

I have top of the line parts and gear - and I know a lot about computers - but this makes no sense...

As I said before, I don't mind if SONAR "shows" 80% CPU daily - as long as it performs without glitching - I'm fine with the high CPU displayed constantly :)

So, please help me grasp this if you would be so kind:
Reaper can load 5 instances of Massive (64 voices A PIECE)
and max out at 24% CPU (task manager or internal, whatever it shows) - point being = zero artifacts and glitches. Period.

SONAR loading one instance of Massive (64 voices) - CPU displays avg. 52% and audible clicks and pops and buffering errors.

Take SONAR out of my equation for a moment: everything on my PC is flawless.  Sound card, Sibelius, BIOS, Reaper, Windows apps, media players, net browsing sounds, etc - everything. Seriously...

Put my UA101 or my PCI 192 into SONAR under the situations I've discussed here in the thread - fail.

Put my UA101 or my PCI 192 into Reaper/MiniHost under the situations I've discussed here - not one error - even when I triple the load/instances of the synths I used in SONAR.

My brain is fried....oy! ;0

Thanks for the help :)

My situation certainly does not seem to be only me, I'm not special I know lol - but regardless of the % of people - surely that is curious, no?  I know it's not concrete, of course - but certain multithreaded/quad cores/i7s/newer CPU's...plus certain CPU hungry synths...all have similar issues...in SONAR..."similar" CPU issues...

Still, that would turn my head.

Update:

Ok...I tried something here and I'm not sure what to make of it.
(It doesn't make sense per say, but I'll share it - because you guys have been AWESOME for trying to help me ;) Thanks!!!)

Ok, so I edited the AUD file again - changed the ThreadingModel (back to 1 - I had changed it to 2, for better performance, which did help quite a bit).

Once I set it back to 1, I rebooted, and restarted SONAR. Tested it.

Then I edited the AUD again, and changed it back to "2"  - which is suggested for quads, etc.
(2 = Additional worker thread is created. This may result in improvement with Quad processor systems or higher. Not recommended for Dual processor systems. )

And then another reboot.

Now, the CPU of course still visibly spikes that high (as SONAR always does because its CPU meter is not an actual CPU meter per say; It's more to do with audio buffers etc)

...but, the pops/clicks/crackles are gone up until I really push it hard now.

This is an improvement but 2 things concern me:

1) I didn't really do anything other than re-edit the AUD.ini file and reboot and reapply a parameter change ( = 1 to  = 2)
(which I had already done 3 times prior)

and

2) the pops/cracks are still there, though infrequent in my most recent tests a little while ago...

Odd, no?


I'll let you know what I find...tonight :)

Thanks again guys!