Double Post

d`Oh he is referring to your previous post.

Unfortunately I (and I suspect you) don`t feel like the rewire workaround is very satisfactory - I am still very uncomfprtable with a cpu load that hovers around break point with very little hooked up in Sonar.

Another reason to finally get off the fence between Reaper and Sonar, I guess.
Trouble is I have been with Sonar a long time and hate to move permanently to something different and then see the issues I currently have either resolved or explained.
I always get he feeling that any problems I have are very likely down to me just not knowing what I am doing properly.

But I would like to see an explanation from Cake of "our" problem here.

ivanSC


d`Oh he is referring to your previous post.

Unfortunately I (and I suspect you) don`t feel like the rewire workaround is very satisfactory - I am still very uncomfprtable with a cpu load that hovers around break point with very little hooked up in Sonar.

Another reason to finally get off the fence between Reaper and Sonar, I guess.
Trouble is I have been with Sonar a long time and hate to move permanently to something different and then see the issues I currently have either resolved or explained.
I always get he feeling that any problems I have are very likely down to me just not knowing what I am doing properly.

But I would like to see an explanation from Cake of "our" problem here.

Yea, for now I'll ReWire but hopefully Cake will address it - if they can.  I love SONAR and it's my favorite DAW, for years now.  No intention of leaving it.  But damn, this is frustrating.

And yes, to the other poster - I have tried downgrading temporarily - no such luck.

It's actually a bit worse than 8.5.3

bitflipper

But I would like to see an explanation from Cake of "our" problem here.

You're not going to get an explanation here on a peer-to-peer forum, only speculation from other users who don't have the same soft synths, can't reproduce your problem, and don't experience this problem with the synths they use. Open a support request!

CW tries to work with third-party vendors to assure compatibility. And that's what this is, a compatibility issue. It's not SONAR that's chewing up those CPU cycles, it's the synth. It may be because of some miscommunication that's SONAR's fault, or that SONAR could somehow avoid, but it's still specific to your synth. The only way you're going to solve the mystery is by getting CW support involved.

I thought the same at first, about compatibility - but if that's the case then you are saying 30+ synths that are "faulty" - but not SONAR?  It's more than just a simple miscommunication, imo.  Yet these same synths work flawlessly in Reaper?  I'm not meaning to pick on SONAR, I just want to understand the problem and fix it.  How can the synths be to blame?  The only common factor is SONAR.  I've been happy with SONAR for years, but recently since I've upgraded to 8.0 and now 8.5, this is getting way worse.

Look at the last test I posted (above/recent post).  ReWiring the same synths in SONAR cause SONAR's CPU meter to run perfectly.  Run those synths "in" SONAR directly, and SONAR locks up and dropouts/clicks/pops.  I'm confused with what you mean...

If it were the synths, then shouldn't they max out Reaper's CPU and RAM or whatever too?  But they don't.  When I 'load' the synths in Reaper, and ReWire into SONAR, SONAR does not spike or dropout at all.  I can load 50 instances of Absynth, Rhino, Rapture, even Largo.  So, I really can't agree it's primarily the synths fault.  That's saying virtually all my synths are "faulty", per say, but SONAR is not?  Or am I misunderstanding?  I agree with you: it 'may be' (i.e. it is) SONAR's fault, with respect to a massive miscommuincation.  But it is specific to SONAR.  The ReWire proves it.  No?

I mean, why else would Reaper 'hosting' the synth "cure" SONAR's CPU spike completely - 100% - and yet, if I load those synths in SONAR directly, it dropouts and clicks/pops/freezes. 

The way I see it: It's a SONAR problem, and it just happens to involve VST/VSTi technology.  That's my opinion, based on the days of testing I've had to do.  I've spent every waking second I could on this, so I really think I'm onto something.  SONAR is causing the CPU cycles to blow out of control.  There has to be something in "how" SONAR sees these "types" of synths (i.e. powerful CPU demanding ones).  Maybe it's quad CPU related, i7, .dll/coding, etc - I don't know.  But SONAR is the main culprit, imo.  Every test I've done shows that, at least to me.  ReWire surprised me; but the proof is in the pudding.  I can load 50 synths in Reaper -> ReWire -> SONAR, and SONAR CPU meter = minuscule.  Load 10 of those same synths in SONAR straight up, and massive dropouts/clicks and pops - and it just gets worse as you add more to the project.
I'm now using apples to apples - comparing SONAR CPU meter to SONAR CPU meter.  That's the key, now.

 I'm going to contact CW, because there is definitely something under the hood causing this.  I've tried everything here and the Reaper ReWire really made things click for me.  Think about it :)

Personally, I think it's SONAR that has the "problem" understanding "certain" synths, yes.  Any synth, created in the past few years that is "CPU hungry", seems to be the problem in SONAR 8.5.3

But there are so many synths out there now, and other DAWs just simply don't have this problem using the same setup.  So, I'm trying to figure it out as best I can.  I wish I knew more about the way programs are coded and such.

We'll see how it turns out.   I'll post what I hear back from CW.  :) Thanks for all the help guys, this place rocks!

Ben

lorneyb2


On earlier post when mentioning buffers I didn't mention the one under OPTIONS - GLOBAL - MIDI  Prepare using you could maybe try an adjustment there.  On my 64bit I use 500ms but on my 32bit I use 1000.(it can be anywhere from 20 - 10,000)  Also the Sysex buffers(likely irrevelent) I have set at 128. I think default is  64.

Also under OPTIONS - GLOBAL - GENERAL try turning off the Enable Xray(at the bottom) if it is on.  I recall from other posts that it created problems for some but don't remember of what nature but may be worth a shot. 

Hi Lorney:

Oh, good idea.  I just tried to adjust some MIDI settings in that area, but I'm not seeing any results - yet. 

Thanks! :)  I'll let you guys know what I hear back from Cake.

Ben

I agree there is an issue with Sonar and it's resource usage with VSTi's.
There have been so many people complain on this forum about similar issues, most give up and are never heard from again. I'm just a hobbyist so I never need to load more than a couple of synths, but that will still push the Sonar CPU meter up to 50%, add an instance of Guitar Rig and the crackle and pops start.
Like you I can run the same setup in Reaper and never have an issue, also like you I prefer Sonar though and don't want to switch.
Not sure what the issue is, could it be a combination of Sonar and Windows 7/Vista, Iv'e noticed that many of the folks that never have a problem are still on XP ???

you are saying 30+ synths that are "faulty"

Sorry, I was under the impression that it was a handful of specific synths that were having the problem ("certain soft synths" was the phrase in your initial post).

But if you've reproduced the behavior on 30 different products, then that's a whole 'nother dimension. It would suggest something systemic in nature, but also something out of the ordinary. Unfortunately, I don't have any of the synths you've mentioned, so I can't try to duplicate the problem. I'd hope that somebody will eventually comment who does have them.

Have you experimented with synths that others here are likely to also have access to, such as Dimension Pro?

bitflipper

you are saying 30+ synths that are "faulty"

Sorry, I was under the impression that it was a handful of specific synths that were having the problem ("certain soft synths" was the phrase in your initial post).

But if you've reproduced the behavior on 30 different products, then that's a whole 'nother dimension. It would suggest something systemic in nature, but also something out of the ordinary. Unfortunately, I don't have any of the synths you've mentioned, so I can't try to duplicate the problem. I'd hope that somebody will eventually comment who does have them.

Have you experimented with synths that others here are likely to also have access to, such as Dimension Pro?

Yea, but Rapture and DimPro (at reasonably modest polyphony and FX) don't take up as much CPU as newer 'CPU intensive' synths do - though, to be fair, after I pushed them hard they too caused issues with CPU in SONAR.  But it took more before they dropped out.

Ben

BC - Any word back from Cake on "our" problem yet?

^^^And you may have put that money right on the spot

I just upgraded to 8.5 from Sonar 6 earlier this week. I had session 3 along with dimension going at the same time and it hit the red on some occasions. Opened up these same two synths in 6 and it was around 18%.

Yeah, my PC may be a few years old, but it still reaches the reccomended requirements for Sonar 8.

Is Sonar 8.0 working for you? I have the same problem with 8.5.3. I just reverted back to 8.0.

Very good question re load balancing. I have been busy up in London the last few days & still have no time to play with settings.
Anyone gets any definitive answer to how we go about using all the cores we got in an efficient way, I for one would be very grateful for some pointers.

I am SOOOOO disappointed with Sonar/Cake for the moment, but hopefully this is either a blip or us not RTFM`ing enough...
and in the meantime there is always Reaper

BUMP.

I am still seeing high activity in Sonars cpu meter that is not matched by the system cpu usage meter.
Also experiencing dropouts and pops and crackles sporadically.

Any news from Cake tech support yet?

I may have to contact them myself jsut to ad a little extra squeakiness to the wheel

Would be nice to know more about this before I install my PE 8.5 that's been on the shelf about two months now...

Would be nice to know more about this before I install my PE 8.5 that's been on the shelf about two months now

Just install it. It will probably work just fine for you. If not, you can still use your current version without any change.