Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk
]

paulo

chuckebaby

paulo

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk
]

We try to be fair to all our existing customers. In 2012, we have offered many special deals including the $10 for 10 days (which was meant to be fair to everyone who had purchased). We also recently did a spring sale for 30% off select products, the Advanced Workshop Giveaway, the 26.2% global sale, just to name a few. In addition, we try to maintain very fair upgrade prices and reward customers who spend a lot of money. We have also made a big effort in making new videos and resources available (like CakeTV, the Welcome Kit). We value your business and are always thinking of ways to reward loyal customers. At the same time, we are a business and can't be giving away everything for free. I hope you all can appreciate how much time and effort is spent in trying to make our customers happy. That's not only applies to sales but products as well. We listen to customer feedback and are probably one of the only companies that actually addresses customers on their public forums and tries to help out customers having issues (when possible).

Unless of course they live outside of USA in which case we will charge them more for the same thing.

You forgot that bit ;)

if i was to buy a product from another country i would exspect to pay for an imported item.
wouldnt you?

i mean i just bought some german equipment,do you think i paid what the folks in germany paid?
i would think not.
what about the import taxes and other import charges,yes even for electronic downloads.
their fee's set up by your goverment and mine.

sure they will wave that,then your paying less for sonarthen i am,how fair is that?

Physical stuff I have no issue with - of course I expect to pay for shipping something halfway round the world. A download is a download - other companies manage it perfectly well and let non US customers pay the $ price.

We have to charge VAT on all products sold into Europe. That's the main reason for the price difference in Europe.  

Erm...... Sonar First Class Upgrade  $99 or £89.

$99 = £64.  VAT @20% = £12.80   which makes £76.80 total.

So even allowing for VAT the UK price for still has almost 20% added on top of the US price.

BTW you are correct in that your invoices do state that prices include VAT. What is missing form the invoice is your VAT registration number, a legal requirement if you are VAT registered.

FWIW, I'm not just here just to bash CW.  Sonar is great IMHO and I still think it's a pretty good price for what you are getting, but the price sends the wrong message to non-US customers. I'll be sticking with 8.5PE for now because of this and the console view in X1 - yeeeuwww ! Shame the pro-channel and new media browser are big advances, but the CV is just not doing it for me. Please bring back the custom colours function.

cclarry


I think we're missing the point here....

Yes, Andrew, Cake has had some REALLY good offers...

BUT

Those offers were open to ALL...NEW AND OLD CUSTOMERS...if you 
met certain conditions, etc....

YES Cake does a GREAT JOB of taking care of and listening to their customers...
FAR BETTER THEN THE REST OF THE DAW WORLD...

Again, I'm not, by any means, dissatisfied....and there will always be those
on one side of the coin or the other....that's human nature...

BUT

I see that Andrew made no attempt to explain the LACK of upgrade path for existing
uses from Producer to Production Suite...

THESE are the issues here.....NOT whether or not we got what we paid for...

EVERY COMPANY IS ABOUT MONEY....MAKING MONEY...everything else is secondary or tertiary...

EMPLOYEE AND EXECUTIVE bonuses are based on sales and marketing and blah blah blah...
and ANYONE who is PAID by that company and whose salary depends on it will defend it...

EVERY COMPANY IS GUILTY OF THIS....REGARDLESS OF WHO OR WHAT OR WHERE...

Bottom line....no one likes the truth....we like to pass over that part with political and corporate
rhetoric and give excuses and weave our way through and bypass the issues at hand....
It's all POLITICS at it's best...

That's what big business and big government do best....smoke and mirrors...

THAT is BIG BUSINESS....always has been...always will be.....

I'm completely content with what I have...said that repeatedly....

Just making a valid point....whether any of you think so or not...

TRUTH STANDS ON IT'S OWN...it doesn't need ANYONE'S approval...

BTW...love the monkey...where's my hundred's....=P

(JesusMics - the pre's in the Octa-Capture are the same as those in the high end VS-700 console the VS Preamps...they're awesome IMHO - I have the Quad-Capture...same pre's)

We do have a Producer to Production Suite upgrade path:
 
http://www.store.cakewalk.com/default.asp?sku=10-CXPS1.00-20E
 
You also get the Free Channel Compressor ($50 value) with your purchase. That's the promotion we are running right now. In April, we did a 26.2% store wide sale which brought the price down to $75. I think we really try hard to satisfy customers. The core of our business is our customer base, we understand that.

paulo

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk
]

paulo

chuckebaby

paulo

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk
]

We try to be fair to all our existing customers. In 2012, we have offered many special deals including the $10 for 10 days (which was meant to be fair to everyone who had purchased). We also recently did a spring sale for 30% off select products, the Advanced Workshop Giveaway, the 26.2% global sale, just to name a few. In addition, we try to maintain very fair upgrade prices and reward customers who spend a lot of money. We have also made a big effort in making new videos and resources available (like CakeTV, the Welcome Kit). We value your business and are always thinking of ways to reward loyal customers. At the same time, we are a business and can't be giving away everything for free. I hope you all can appreciate how much time and effort is spent in trying to make our customers happy. That's not only applies to sales but products as well. We listen to customer feedback and are probably one of the only companies that actually addresses customers on their public forums and tries to help out customers having issues (when possible).

Unless of course they live outside of USA in which case we will charge them more for the same thing.

You forgot that bit ;)

if i was to buy a product from another country i would exspect to pay for an imported item.
wouldnt you?

i mean i just bought some german equipment,do you think i paid what the folks in germany paid?
i would think not.
what about the import taxes and other import charges,yes even for electronic downloads.
their fee's set up by your goverment and mine.

sure they will wave that,then your paying less for sonarthen i am,how fair is that?

Physical stuff I have no issue with - of course I expect to pay for shipping something halfway round the world. A download is a download - other companies manage it perfectly well and let non US customers pay the $ price.

We have to charge VAT on all products sold into Europe. That's the main reason for the price difference in Europe.  

Erm...... Sonar First Class Upgrade  $99 or £89.

$99 = £64.  VAT @20% = £12.80   which makes £76.80 total.

So even allowing for VAT the UK price for still has almost 20% added on top of the US price.

BTW you are correct in that your invoices do state that prices include VAT. What is missing form the invoice is your VAT registration number, a legal requirement if you are VAT registered.

FWIW, I'm not just here just to bash CW.  Sonar is great IMHO and I still think it's a pretty good price for what you are getting, but the price sends the wrong message to non-US customers. I'll be sticking with 8.5PE for now because of this and the console view in X1 - yeeeuwww ! Shame the pro-channel and new media browser are big advances, but the CV is just not doing it for me. Please bring back the custom colours function.

That price of SONAR X1 was set back in 2010 when we released. We can't control currency flucuations, and we do have to pick a set price. However, we do try and adjust when new products come out. For example, the PC2A T-Type Leveling Amplifier is $79 USD. The price with VAT converted in US dollars would be $95. Right now the price is £59, which is $92. For Euros, the price is 69 Euros, which is $86. So it's actually a little less. You will see with new products released this year and last year, the prices are very comparable. Next year, it could be totally different and maybe we'll have this conversation again :)

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk
]

paulo

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk
]

paulo

chuckebaby

paulo

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk
]

We try to be fair to all our existing customers. In 2012, we have offered many special deals including the $10 for 10 days (which was meant to be fair to everyone who had purchased). We also recently did a spring sale for 30% off select products, the Advanced Workshop Giveaway, the 26.2% global sale, just to name a few. In addition, we try to maintain very fair upgrade prices and reward customers who spend a lot of money. We have also made a big effort in making new videos and resources available (like CakeTV, the Welcome Kit). We value your business and are always thinking of ways to reward loyal customers. At the same time, we are a business and can't be giving away everything for free. I hope you all can appreciate how much time and effort is spent in trying to make our customers happy. That's not only applies to sales but products as well. We listen to customer feedback and are probably one of the only companies that actually addresses customers on their public forums and tries to help out customers having issues (when possible).

Unless of course they live outside of USA in which case we will charge them more for the same thing.

You forgot that bit ;)

if i was to buy a product from another country i would exspect to pay for an imported item.
wouldnt you?

i mean i just bought some german equipment,do you think i paid what the folks in germany paid?
i would think not.
what about the import taxes and other import charges,yes even for electronic downloads.
their fee's set up by your goverment and mine.

sure they will wave that,then your paying less for sonarthen i am,how fair is that?

Physical stuff I have no issue with - of course I expect to pay for shipping something halfway round the world. A download is a download - other companies manage it perfectly well and let non US customers pay the $ price.

We have to charge VAT on all products sold into Europe. That's the main reason for the price difference in Europe.  

Erm...... Sonar First Class Upgrade  $99 or £89.

$99 = £64.  VAT @20% = £12.80   which makes £76.80 total.

So even allowing for VAT the UK price for still has almost 20% added on top of the US price.

BTW you are correct in that your invoices do state that prices include VAT. What is missing form the invoice is your VAT registration number, a legal requirement if you are VAT registered.

FWIW, I'm not just here just to bash CW.  Sonar is great IMHO and I still think it's a pretty good price for what you are getting, but the price sends the wrong message to non-US customers. I'll be sticking with 8.5PE for now because of this and the console view in X1 - yeeeuwww ! Shame as the pro-channel and new media browser are big advances, but the CV is just not doing it for me. Please bring back the custom colours function.

That price of SONAR X1 was set back in 2010 when we released. We can't control currency flucuations, and we do have to pick a set price. However, we do try and adjust when new products come out. For example, the PC2A T-Type Leveling Amplifier is $79 USD. The price with VAT converted in US dollars would be $95. Right now the price is £59, which is $92. For Euros, the price is 69 Euros, which is $86. So it's actually a little less. You will see with new products released this year and last year, the prices are very comparable. Next year, it could be totally different and maybe we'll have this conversation again :)

Thank you for continuing to respond. As I said, I'm not here to just to bash you, but this issue does keep getting swept under the carpet year after year, so I'm making the most of it while someone is talking about it.  The $99 / £89 price is "special offer" price from an email  that Cakewalk sent me a few days ago, not from 2010. Fluctuations in currency exchange rates would not be an issue for you if you allowed all customers to pay in $ as other US based companies do. The currency conversion is then  handled at the prevailing market rate by the credit card company, so you still your full price in $ and we would get a better and more transparent deal than a 20% mark up in case the rates go against you at some point. 

In many ways Cakewalk comes across as a very open an accesible company, more so than I have ever experienced, which is to your immense credit. You do so many things so well and better than so many. It's a great product and I'm sure it will only get better. It's just a shame that you let yourselves down with this pricing issue when it's so easily solvable if there truly isn't another hidden agenda to make a few more $ out of non US customers.

I'm frustrated that X1 can't make a decent lasagna to save it's life. Also it never brings me flowers. WTH DID I PAY FOR?!

That's one thing actually that I think should have come with the Suite. I mean it's only $20 but it would have been nice to get Pyro tossed in there. Seems odd that it wasn't.

Andrew, why wasn't the upgrade path made available to Sonar Producer customers when the Production Suite was released? Remember, it was a retail version which included Producer, Expanded, The PC4K Gate/Expander and Z3ta 2.0 We would have saved a lot of money, instead you sold us all onto Expanded, PC4K Gate/Expander and even Z3ta 2.0 as separate purchases or bundled in small packages. Now after months of cashing in, you finally make the upgrade available and call it your, "next version." Well this next version wasn't made available to Producer customers when that Production Suite was selling for $499. I understand you think you're giving loyal customers break and deals here and there but when the math is done, the customers who wait 6 months or longer really are getting the best deals and the best package offered. And on another note, I really think you forgot about those customers who bought into X1 early, not just Producer customers but everyone who upgraded to X1. A lot of users are still holding onto the hope that fixes, enhancements and much needed features will come along the way that will make X1 their go to DAW. But that isn't going to happen if you move onto something else. And perhaps the proof is in the pudding when you're doing a big promotion like the one that's being run. Eventually, when you continue to cater to your new customers and forget about existing customers, you should only expect the kind of customer feedback you're getting now. You ought to be fair and level the playing field.

@Heather... lulzors!1

heather...the PC Pasta Module is in beta and supposed to be a secret.  shame on you for letting the cat out of the bag!

I always miss out on the deals...I'm immune to the loss now...I also never win the lottery...but, then again I never play.

I'm using what I got here.

What is with all this whaaaaaing?

Here's how the tech industry works, and this has already been pointed out and eluded to multiple times here. Early adopters pay a premium to get their hands on the stuff sooner... for better or worse (*cough cough* VISTA *cough cough*). In many case the company RELIES on those initial sales for future development. Cheap *^*^&s like me wait it out and buy at maturity of the product (after it has been deemed stable, there are solid reviews of the product, the price has come down a bit, etc...). After that you have your barrel scrapers who get the best deals because they waited until the end the distro cycle and don't care about having the latest thingamadoodle. Sooooo... without those initial buyers who pay the premium and accept it for what it is many of the products would NOT EVEN EXIST!! This is a BIG program and probably cost a fortune to develop and the support after even more. I'm all about bashing big greedy corporations but I really don't see Cakewalk as one of them. In fact I think they are ridiculously helpful and inexpensive and I have a feeling the reason for that is because the parent corporation can gain a MASSIVE amount of market research from keeping such an open dialogue with us and making the product accessible to a much broader market (because it is REALLY inexpensive considering what you get). Remember... Roland makes a TON of money on their instruments and they are certainly a leader in the industry. I really wouldn't be surprised if Sonar ran at a VERY thin profit margin (or at a loss) simply for Roland to keep their relevancy and their thumb on the pulse of the industry. Go over to the Korg forum and see how involved they are over there (the answer is... not much).

All I said was this is going to make for some unhappy LOYAL owners....not that they'll quit using...they just don't think it's right that a company gives away Freebies...i.e. Video Bundle, Production Suite to NEW Customers, and those of us who bought in early didn't get those things...

 
Boo hoo.  Would you like some cheese with that WHINE?  Did you miss the part about getting discounted upgrades every year?  The $10 sale, the Spring Sale, the 30% off sale, etc.?  The free tech support?  Yes, new customers get a lot of great deals.  We were ALL new customers at one point, and every time we get in on a great new deal, we're new customers again.  You act like just because you bought something once, sometime, Cakewalk now owes you every time somebody else gets a good deal.  Puhlease. 
 
Yes, Cakewalk is a business.  They're in it for the money.  I bet you like to get paid in your business, too.  Cakewalk is a good company that has demonstrated an uncommon dedication to its customers with upgrade deals, sales and discounts, FREE phone support, FREE videos, an active user forum, and a responsiveness to customer feedback that is frankly unparalleled. 
 
It seems like you blame Cakewalk for trying to run a profitable business.   So the "production suite" wasn't available as a package back when you wanted it to be.  How is that a failing on Cakewalk's part?  NOW it IS available, and for some reason you feel slighted by that?  Businesses are always coming up with new angles to sell their products.  Hey, I understand some feel disappointed when the next deal comes along for something they already bought, but that's the way it goes.  Why does that make Cakewalk the bad guys?
 
I'm all about keeping companies honest and curtailing corporate greed.  But there's a world of difference between "corporate greed" and just normal business.  We're not talking about foreclosing on poor old widows, or killing puppies or something.  Think about it.  You're essentially accusing Cakewalk of being a corporate monster for...wait for it...offering discounts and free stuff.  Oh, the humanity!
 
Um, yeah.  Right.  Call me when they start taking food from orphans.  Until then...la viva Cakewalk!

I'm just afraid they'll become jaded and bitter from all this and say "NO CAKE FOR YOU!!!" and snatch the bag of goodies from our hands. What then, people? WHAT THEN?!

Heheheh... Hiya, John. You have to admit... that monkey's foot is pretty darned freaky.