simulacreant
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 23
- Joined: 2004/03/19 08:31:49
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/25 12:28:38
(permalink)
Hi,
I'm having a very difficult time finding a decent Athlon XP motherboard with SATA integrated into the Southbridge. Can anyone point me in the right direction? So far, I've only found Athlon64 mobos.
Also, has anyone had any luck using a SIIG or Promise PCI SATA card, i.e., no glitching, etc.? Or should I just keep looking for a new motherboard?
Thanks
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/25 13:43:53
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: vtd
Someone mentioned here that ASUS P4P800 works since it's an Intel 865 chipset. I'm guessing then this does fit the profile of one of the working MBs for SATA free problems? Also I'm guessing the ASUS P4C800 is Intel 875 and should have no problems with SATA either?
vtd, Short answer: Yes, and yes. You didn't specify which ASUS P4P800 though, whether the P4P800-VM which uses the Intel 865G chipset, or the P4P800 Deluxe or the straight P4P800 both of which use the
Intel 865PE chipset. No worries, all have SATA integrated onto the Southbridge (this is good). My choice: I'd go with the straight P4P800, for no-nonsense performance with dual-channel memory. If you must have onboard Firewire, then maybe the Deluxe, but it also adds a lot of junk, like extra IDE RAID ports that hang off of the physical PCI bus. Both models of the ASUS P4C800, the Deluxe and the E Deluxe feature the Intel 875P chipset which again has Southbridge- Integrated SATA. ( SIS? Darn, that's already taken!) The 875P chipset, with it's mysterious Intel PAT (whatever that is) looks like it could be marginally faster than the 865, so your wallet and review reads will need to decide that one. Also, only get the E model if you really need Gigabit LAN (or if it's on a really good special this month).
Lastly since I'm asking, what's the difference between an intel 865 and 875 chipset?
I explained the main point above. You can follow the links above for the gory details. Blessings. Here's to your success on your vst pc.
|
simulacreant
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 23
- Joined: 2004/03/19 08:31:49
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/25 13:46:21
(permalink)
What about any Athlon motherboards (non64)... ?
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/25 13:59:58
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: HammerHead
I'm taking the SATA plunge with fingers crossed...
My ide audio drive is gasping for air. fortunately i was able to back it up
one last time.
I just ordered 2 120gb Sata 7200 drives from newegg , planning to go with a raid0 configuration.
ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe
Athlon XP 2800+
1GB 3200DDR
Matrox G450
Win2K Standard Mode
Thanks to the work losguy put into this post , it's alot less of a crap-shoot than it would have been before.
I've got my irq's squared away.
All onboard mobo stuff is disabled except lan.
The default pci latencies look promising :
Matrox 64
Promise Sata1 32
Promise Sata2 32
Lan (I haven't checked yet)
I keep everyone posted.
Cool, HH! Looks like your launch checklist is proceeding well. Curious... The A7N8X-E Deluxe is specified with a Silicon Image SATA controller onboard. Are you using a Promise SATA controller on a PCI plug-in card? If so, why, and why not the onboard controller? FYI, I wish to resolve the RAID 0 vs RAID 1 question on my system. I originally thought that RAID 0 meant doubling both read and write speed perfromance, doubling the capacity, and halving the reliability (since two drives can fail and there's no inherent backup), and that RAID 1 meant doubling the reliability with no net capacity or performance increase. Under those assumptions I opted for RAID 0 with a stringent backup policy. But from other posts, the performance part seems to be different, with RAID 0 doubling the write speed only, and RAID 1 doubling the read speed. If that's the case, then I may have to rethink my strategy. I plan to test this using the Norton Performance Test Utility, which does a good job separating transient (cache-dominated) and steady-state (platter-dominated) performance. After I finish, I'll post the performance and tradeoffs, maybe here, maybe on a new thread. Here's wishing you a successful launch. EDIT: Post back regardless. It's helpful for us all to see the results, sot hat we can cheer the good ones, and slog through the bad ones together.
< Message edited by losguy -- 3/25/2004 1:05:43 PM >
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/25 14:26:54
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: bandasound
i have a question...will this matter if i am running my SATA as a single drive instead of a RAID.
sys:
abit nf7-s ver.2
athlon xp3000
512 kingston ddr 2700
1 seagate 80 gig barricuda (ata 100)
1 seagate 80 gig barricuda (SATA)
M-Audio Delta 1010
This system threw me a curveball. Your MOBO, the Abit NF-7S actually implements its SATA "onboard" using what Abit calls a SERILLEL. It's a quirky little device that hangs off of your IDE connector, letting you hook up a SATA device and a single PATA IDE device to an IDE channel. I haven't used one of these things, so I must presume that the SATA device acts as the IDE Master. I wondered if in this arrangement the SATA drive suffered bandwidth from funneling through the IDE port (not that it matters at today's platter transfer rates), but no, they claim full 150MBps SATA, so they must have hot-rodded the IDE port for 150MBps (sort of like a special "ATA150" mode) just for the SERILLEL. Anyway, I'm not sure if I can answer your question. You say, "will this matter". Matter for what? Are you experiencing glitches? If not, then you are fine, leave it as it is. Do you really want to implement a RAID? For that, you'll need another MOBO or a separate PCI plug-in controller, not to mention another hard drive. If you're juist curious about RAID, then search around... there's plenty to read up on. EDIT: SERILLEL... a combobulation of SERIAL and PARALLEL. I suppose they could have called it a PARIES, but that would kinda sound like some sort of disease or something... kinda.
< Message edited by losguy -- 3/25/2004 1:29:37 PM >
|
HammerHead
Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1403
- Joined: 2004/01/07 15:59:53
- Location: Northern Virginia
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/25 14:56:24
(permalink)
The A7N8X-E Deluxe is specified with a Silicon Image SATA controller onboard. Are you using a Promise SATA controller on a PCI plug-in card?
If so, why, and why not the onboard controller?
i fudged up in the original post. i must have had promise on the brain. i'm actually using the onboard controller.
|
HammerHead
Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1403
- Joined: 2004/01/07 15:59:53
- Location: Northern Virginia
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/25 15:06:44
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: losguy
FYI, I wish to resolve the RAID 0 vs RAID 1 question on my system. I originally thought that RAID 0 meant doubling both read and write speed perfromance, doubling the capacity, and halving the reliability (since two drives can fail and there's no inherent backup), and that RAID 1 meant doubling the reliability with no net capacity or performance increase. Under those assumptions I opted for RAID 0 with a stringent backup policy.
But from other posts, the performance part seems to be different, with RAID 0 doubling the write speed only, and RAID 1 doubling the read speed. If that's the case, then I may have to rethink my strategy. I plan to test this using the Norton Performance Test Utility, which does a good job separating transient (cache-dominated) and steady-state (platter-dominated) performance. After I finish, I'll post the performance and tradeoffs, maybe here, maybe on a new thread.
losguy, it will be cool to see your test results raid 0 vs raid 1. i keep wavering back & forth on whether the performance benefits of raid0 outweigh the reliability of mirroring. being one that isn't always as disiplined about backing up as i should be, i may end up going with raid1.
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio - ? for losguy
2004/03/25 15:27:01
(permalink)
EDIT: Sorry... posting/edit glitch.
< Message edited by losguy -- 3/25/2004 2:31:06 PM >
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio - ? for losguy
2004/03/25 15:28:32
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: btsabq
I was going to start another thread, but since the A78NX-E Dlx MB was brought up :) ...I have a few questions.
I went ahead (from your advise) and upgraded my setup to the A78NX-E Dlx and was wondering what the best use of PCI slots would be for the following devices:
Layla 24 (pci)
Mackie UAD1
Promise ATA 133 controller card (for DVD Burner and extra 120G Drive)
I believe I have them set up as:
Layla 24 = slot3
UAD = slot4
Promise = slot5
(GeForce 2 MX 440 in the AGP slot)
(where I assume pci slot 1 is the one right next to the agp slot...)
I have it set up as acpi so none of the irqs are shown as sharing, but when I boot-up, it shows irq 5 as being shared between the agp video and a "Multimedia Controller" which could either be the Layla 24 or the UAD.
Every once and a while I get a hard lock-up in Sonar. Memtest passed 7 passes. I wonder if this has to do with an occasional glitch with sharing of irq's.
Is there a better way to set this up?
Thanks in advance,
Brian.
Hi Brian, I downloaded the latest version of the A7N8X-E Deluxe Manual and looked at the PCI IRQ Routing Table on page 2-12. ASUS always does a great job of clearly showing which slots share with what onboard peripherals, and this MOBO is no exception. The table clearly shows the following cross-assignments:
- PCI Slots 1 and 5 share an IRQ line with each other and the WiFi slot
- PCI Slot 2 shares its IRQ line with the AGP slot
- PCI Slot 3 shares its IRQ line with the onboard SATA controller
- PCI Slot 4 shares its IRQ line with the onboard Gigabit LAN controller
So, to keep from guaranteed conflicts with the Promise in Slot 5, I'd start by disabling the WiFi if you haven't already. I'd also never plug anything into Slot 1 on this MOBO if somthing is also plugged into Slot 5, because they're guaranteed to share an IRQ. (Looks like you've already satisfied this by avoiding Slot 1.) Do you have the onboard SATA controller enabled? If so, then I don't see how it couldn't be sharing and IRQ with the Layla24 in Slot 3. If you want to use SATA, then Slot 3 is a no-no. Same story goes for the UAD in Slot 4 and the Gigabit LAN port. The multimedia device sharing with the AGP card is a little mysterious, unless you just have too much onboard detritus enabled for even ACPI to manage it well. For the Slot 3 or 4 lines to be sharing with the Slot 2 would be indicative of this situation, if the so-called "Multimedia Device" is indeed the UAD or the Layla. Could it actually be the onboard sound controller? At this point it's hard to recommend anything specific because I don't know what you must keep or what you could live without. But generally, in the BIOS (not in Device Manager) disable *everything* that you don't need, including all COM/LPT ports, onboard sound if possible, unused onboard disk controllers, unused USB or Firewire controllers, and WiFi and other garbage like that. Then look again. You'll get a clear look at your IRQ assignments if you open Device Manager > View > Resources by Type > IRQ. Once you have all of your audio devices (and SATA if enabled) all on their own IRQ's, you can look at your PCI latency timer values to see if there are any timing imbalances in your system. GeForce sounds like nVidia, and it could very well be a PCI hog. You can re-read this topic from the top to address PCI latencies in detail. Since you're using a UAD-1 card, you'll want to pay special attention to PCI latency tiemrs. Search for my UAD-1 posts on this topic. You can also look up my posts over on the UAD-1 website/forum.
< Message edited by losguy -- 3/25/2004 2:42:54 PM >
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/25 15:46:47
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: simulacreant
Hi,
I'm having a very difficult time finding a decent Athlon XP motherboard with SATA integrated into the Southbridge. Can anyone point me in the right direction? So far, I've only found Athlon64 mobos.
Also, has anyone had any luck using a SIIG or Promise PCI SATA card, i.e., no glitching, etc.? Or should I just keep looking for a new motherboard?
Thanks
Whew! Finally down to you, simulacreant. Thanks for waiting. AFAIK, no Athlon XP MOBO chipsets exist with Southbridge-integrated SATA. From the above, I'm not sure if you already have an Athlon XP processor and/or MOBO. If you are upgrading the MOBO for an existing AthlonXP for better support of memory, periipherals and/or SATA, then I can at least give you a positive testimony using an ASUS A7N8X Deluxe with a Terratec soundcard. I have achieved good SATA performance with the onboard controllers, with judicious card placement/IRQ assignment and PCI latency timer balancing. Others have as well, and posted right under this very topic. There's no guarantee that everything will work perfectly (I mean, is there ever?) but the techniques detailed in this thread can help free you from the tyranny of magic hardware combinations. You see it all the time, "This graphics card works well for audio with this MOBO and soundcard," etc. etc. Given the proper methodology and the tools to follow them, there should be no need for magic combinations. The PCI card RAID controllers can offer more control over their PCI bus usage than the onboard ones, but AFAIK this is only true of the more expensive ones ($100+). Otherwise, you're probably better off just getting PowerStrip.
|
HammerHead
Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1403
- Joined: 2004/01/07 15:59:53
- Location: Northern Virginia
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio - ? for losguy
2004/03/25 15:48:38
(permalink)
I have the same mobo & i had to disable all of the goodies just
to get 1 pci card to be happy on it's own irq. i cant imagine trying with 2 additional pci cards...not impossible i suppose just some work and some
compromises on what peripherals you need on your system.
you can disable all of the extras either through bios or jumpers . the sata is a jumper & i think the wireless lan is also a jumper.
i disabled lpt & coms, usb's, onboard audio & midi.
i'm only using onboard lan and sata.
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/25 16:08:50
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: HammerHead
i fudged up in the original post. i must have had promise on the brain.
i'm actually using the onboard controller.
Cool, no prob. Still interesting to follow. ORIGINAL: HammerHead
losguy,
it will be cool to see your test results raid 0 vs raid 1. i keep wavering back & forth on whether the performance benefits of raid0 outweigh the reliability of mirroring. being one that isn't always as disiplined about backing up as i should be, i may end up going with raid1.
Yeah, me 2. Hey... if we had four SATA drives and the right controller, we could just go RAID 0+1 and get both speed and reliability, and avoid the question entirely! (...if we had four SATA drives and the right controller...) Actually, if I had the audacious luxury of four drives, I'd just get a fifth drive and go RAID 5. ORIGINAL: HammerHead
I have the same mobo & i had to disable all of the goodies just
to get 1 pci card to be happy on it's own irq. i cant imagine trying with 2 additional pci cards...not impossible i suppose just some work and some
compromises on what peripherals you need on your system.
Interesting that you call the "goodies". Anyway, we want to keep in mind that you are running Standard Mode, right? I'm now very interested in seeing if we can help Mr. btsabq get to a configured system with more stuff in it by using ACPI.
|
HammerHead
Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1403
- Joined: 2004/01/07 15:59:53
- Location: Northern Virginia
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/25 16:12:08
(permalink)
Interesting that you call the "goodies". Anyway, we want to keep in mind that you are running Standard Mode, right? I'm now very interested in seeing if we can help Mr. btsabq get to a configured system with more stuff in it by using ACPI.
I call them goodies because i'll probably never use or need them, except maybe usb. Yes...I am running W2K in standard configuration...
|
vtd
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5
- Joined: 2004/01/29 01:40:20
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/25 17:19:15
(permalink)
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/25 17:54:09
(permalink)
YW!
You are now guaranteed to plug everything in, and it will work perfectly right from the start!! (Disclaimer: The preceding statement is true only for new installations of toaster ovens on lucky days.)
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/25 18:01:43
(permalink)
I'm still pondering about that stupid SERILLEL. Maybe it's just the name, in which case their marketing department hands-down gets the "hook-them-with-something-stupid" award. But I'm wondering if it's something more. If this thing really works, and it's available as an off-the-shelf accessory, then you could theoretically turn any ailing or aging MOBO into a reliable, working SATA MOBO. Of course, your average MOBO can only communicate over its IDE bus at 100MB/s or 133MB/s (66 MB/s if it's old) right? So both the SERILLEL (dang! what is it about that name?) and the SATA IDE drive would need to be happy running at the lower rate. I suppose it's possible. Well, if it worked, the SATA drive would then be back on the Southbridge and no longer eating up time on the PCI bus. Drawbacks: 1) No RAID. This isn't a big deal for most; however, I think I really do get a boost in audio track count with RAID 0. 2) With the SERILLEL (!!) you move the bottleneck from the PCI bus to the IDE bus. If you have a CD/DVD/RW drive, you need to make sure that it operates as an IDE Slave and that it won't slow down your system drive and/or audio drive, whichever IDE channel that it's on. 3) This combobulation isn't free. Anyone know how much it costs as a separate accessory (if available)? Wait! I have a solution for 2). Go buy a PARIES, which allows you to connect your ATAPI CD/DVD to your now-unused SATA port. This is getting totally absurd. Just get PowerStrip for $30 and balance your whole system!
|
tomek
Max Output Level: -77 dBFS
- Total Posts : 684
- Joined: 2004/03/21 18:43:22
- Location: Vancouver B.C.
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/26 04:59:07
(permalink)
Thanks losguy! I turned the latency on my fx5700 card down to 96 and wow! Better than ever! 2.9ms in Sonar 3 with an old Yamaha DSP Factory Card! Rock stable with 16 big softsynths running! These cards were never intended to go lower than 40ms! -HEHE Looks like I got another few years on 'er! Tomek.
< Message edited by tomek -- 3/26/2004 5:00:27 AM >
|
Marquis42
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 123
- Joined: 2003/11/07 13:34:53
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/26 09:02:43
(permalink)
I've used the Serillel converters to use PATA drives on SATA channels, but never the other way around. I suppose it would work, though there could be issues since what you're trying to "convert" is actually the controller and not the drive. The only issue I had was that since it was the boot drive on the SATA channel, I had to go into the BIOS and add a 1 second IDE pre-delay so the disk detection wasn't flaky. BTW, your post above about RAID 5 is inaccurate. You do not need 5 disks to go RAID 5, you only need 3. ORIGINAL: losguy
I'm still pondering about that stupid SERILLEL. Maybe it's just the name, in which case their marketing department hands-down gets the "hook-them-with-something-stupid" award. But I'm wondering if it's something more. If this thing really works, and it's available as an off-the-shelf accessory, then you could theoretically turn any ailing or aging MOBO into a reliable, working SATA MOBO. Of course, your average MOBO can only communicate over its IDE bus at 100MB/s or 133MB/s (66 MB/s if it's old) right? So both the SERILLEL (dang! what is it about that name?) and the SATA IDE drive would need to be happy running at the lower rate. I suppose it's possible. Well, if it worked, the SATA drive would then be back on the Southbridge and no longer eating up time on the PCI bus.
Drawbacks:
1) No RAID. This isn't a big deal for most; however, I think I really do get a boost in audio track count with RAID 0.
2) With the SERILLEL (!!) you move the bottleneck from the PCI bus to the IDE bus. If you have a CD/DVD/RW drive, you need to make sure that it operates as an IDE Slave and that it won't slow down your system drive and/or audio drive, whichever IDE channel that it's on.
3) This combobulation isn't free. Anyone know how much it costs as a separate accessory (if available)?
Wait! I have a solution for 2). Go buy a PARIES, which allows you to connect your ATAPI CD/DVD to your now-unused SATA port. This is getting totally absurd. Just get PowerStrip for $30 and balance your whole system!
< Message edited by Marquis42 -- 3/26/2004 9:03:37 AM >
|
btsabq
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 146
- Joined: 2003/11/08 13:45:43
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio - ? for losguy
2004/03/26 09:48:22
(permalink)
Thanks for the help losguy! You rock!
So...I have been tankering with Powerstrip and would like some advise.
The GeForce2 Video card was set at 254 and I dropped it to 88. Seems to run great now :)
What do you think of the other numbers? They are the defaults provided by the driver...
Layla 24 = 192
UAD1 = 128
Promise ATA133 = 32
Is anyone else here running a Layla 24 (and/or a UAD) that would like to share the Powerstrip numbers they are using?
Thanks,
Brian.
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio - ? for losguy
2004/03/26 11:31:46
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: btsabq
Thanks for the help losguy! You rock!
YW
So...I have been tankering with Powerstrip and would like some advise.
The GeForce2 Video card was set at 254 and I dropped it to 88. Seems to run great now :)
What do you think of the other numbers? They are the defaults provided by the driver...
Layla 24 = 192
UAD1 = 128
Promise ATA133 = 32
Is anyone else here running a Layla 24 (and/or a UAD) that would like to share the Powerstrip numbers they are using?
...
A quick search on "layla, pci, latency" turned up posts by Dakes and Jeff Sorbo, both of which seems to have left the PCI latency timers on their Layla on the high side (if not default). I recall that UAD 1 woes have usually been handled just by lowering a renegade AGP card (like yours was) to below 100. Your Promise ATA133 looks very cooperative as-is. Curious... does their driver GUI allow you to set this? EDIT: Also Brian, how did you manage on isolating your IRQ assignments?
< Message edited by losguy -- 3/26/2004 10:37:58 AM >
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/26 12:53:54
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Marquis42
I've used the Serillel converters to use PATA drives on SATA channels, but never the other way around. I suppose it would work, though there could be issues since what you're trying to "convert" is actually the controller and not the drive. The only issue I had was that since it was the boot drive on the SATA channel, I had to go into the BIOS and add a 1 second IDE pre-delay so the disk detection wasn't flaky.
Interesting, thanks. I suppose disk detection of a CD/RW connected to a SATA channel could be even flakier? Or would it not matter unless it's a boot drive?
BTW, your post above about RAID 5 is inaccurate. You do not need 5 disks to go RAID 5, you only need 3.
Thanks, I stand corrected. So the good news is, from where I sit, I only need one more SATA drive (Seagate Barracuda V) and a RAID 5 SATA controller card, and I'm in!! (So, where can I get a good RAID 5 SATA card, quick and cheap?) For everyone's benefit (and mine too, I suppose), here's a technical explanation of RAID levels. How to read their diagrams: the individual disk drives are the big multi-shaded cylinders along the bottom. The big cylinders are depicted as stacks of little shaded cylinders. The little cylinders are the sequential data chunks that the RAID controller breaks the incoming data stream into and spreads across the drives. (This is on disk writes, of course. On reads, the RAID controller grabs the sequential chunks and reassembles them back into an intact stream.) The key to understanding the differences between the RAID levels is to look at the different ways that the chunks are numbered. I think I remember now why I said five disks instead of three for RAID 5. It has something to do with hitting an optimum between increased performance and drive requirements. As you keep adding drives (N increases), at some point you will reach the need for more than one parity drive to keep track of all the added parity bits. (If this were not true, then one parity drive would be enough for an infinite number of data drives, which is absurd.) I vaguely recall that the number of drives where you get the two-parity-drive hit is six, so for optimal parity drive utilization you go back to five drives total. Of course, only the RAID 3 configuration uses a physical parity drive, so this tradeoff probably only applies to RAID 3.
< Message edited by losguy -- 3/26/2004 12:03:06 PM >
|
HammerHead
Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1403
- Joined: 2004/01/07 15:59:53
- Location: Northern Virginia
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/29 10:15:50
(permalink)
ok...
got the 2 new sata 120gb drives up and working. i decided that i didn't need to go with a raid configuration. 1 for audio/wav , the other for storage/backup/streaming samples & pic cache.
so far so good....i've recorded & monitored a hanful of tracks using the sata for wavs & no crackling pops or other glitches....
|
Marquis42
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 123
- Joined: 2003/11/07 13:34:53
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/29 12:15:35
(permalink)
Possibly, but the only real reason I had issues is because the BIOS needed to be able to detect it so it could boot from it. If you have no particular need to boot from it, then it's a non-issue. That being said, you may need a relatively long pre-delay when first setting up a system this way simply because you WILL need to boot from the CD for OS installation. Of course, you could subsequently remove that so it doesn't take forever to boot (the only real side effect). ORIGINAL: losguy
Interesting, thanks. I suppose disk detection of a CD/RW connected to a SATA channel could be even flakier? Or would it not matter unless it's a boot drive?
< Message edited by Marquis42 -- 3/29/2004 12:17:12 PM >
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/29 12:37:34
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: HammerHead
got the 2 new sata 120gb drives up and working. i decided that i didn't need to go with a raid configuration. 1 for audio/wav , the other for storage/backup/streaming samples & pic cache.
...
so far so good....i've recorded & monitored a hanful of tracks using the sata for wavs & no crackling pops or other glitches....
Great to hear, HH. It's getting hard to keep up with all the successes, and you're not making it any easier! (please don't apologize, though) Now if you happen to start to see trouble, espeically after a driver update, you'll know where to start looking for the culprits. On this point, I'm actually not sure what PowerStrip does, once its latency values are set, if a driver update attempts to change the default latency timer value. PowerStrip may recognize the update as a new device and comply, or it may not and keep the value as it was. I really haven't crossed that bridge yet.
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/29 12:39:57
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: tomek
Thanks losguy!
I turned the latency on my fx5700 card down
to 96 and wow! Better than ever!
2.9ms in Sonar 3 with an old Yamaha DSP Factory Card!
Rock stable with 16 big softsynths running!
These cards were never intended to go lower than 40ms! -HEHE
Looks like I got another few years on 'er!
Tomek.
A belated YW, tomek. I really didn't anticipate that this thread would result in prolonging the useful life of a trusty old audio card.
|
Slaine
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6
- Joined: 2004/03/30 08:30:23
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/30 08:45:58
(permalink)
Hi, Great information losguy  ... I recently bought the E-MU 1820 and I've been tearing my hair out ever since :( pop's and clicks a'plenty, but accompanied by audio dropouts in the input channels (I suspect ASIO driver issues but E-MU support are looking into this for me). I've got the A7N8X Deluxe motherboard and stripped the PC down to the one PCI card, most things dissabled (except for USB) and network and I still have problems with the SATA drive. - I took your advise and installed powerstip but I can't seem to get at the SiI 3112 SATA controller in the options... instead I have "CMD RAID controller", yet I'm not using RAID. Am I being obtuse? also I have a single "Gainward controller" wheras I would have expected two as I'm running two outputs from it... Power Strip lists these devices: Device enumeration ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gainward Display controller (031210DEh) - using IRQ12 AsusTek Ethernet controller (920110B7h) - using IRQ10 Creative Labs Audio device (00041102h) - using IRQ5 Creative Labs Firewire bus (40011102h) - using IRQ7 CMD RAID controller (31121095h) - using IRQ11 AsusTek CPU-to-PCI/AGP bridge (01E010DEh) AsusTek RAM controller (01EB10DEh) AsusTek RAM controller (01EE10DEh) AsusTek RAM controller (01ED10DEh) AsusTek RAM controller (01EC10DEh) AsusTek RAM controller (01EF10DEh) AsusTek PCI-to-ISA bridge (006010DEh) AsusTek SMBus (006410DEh) - using IRQ11 AsusTek Universal serial bus (USB) (006710DEh) - using IRQ10 AsusTek Universal serial bus (USB) (006710DEh) - using IRQ4 AsusTek Universal serial bus (USB) (006810DEh) - using IRQ3 NVidia PCI-to-PCI/AGP bridge (006C10DEh) AsusTek IDE controller (006510DEh) NVidia PCI-to-PCI/AGP bridge (006D10DEh) NVidia PCI-to-PCI/AGP bridge (01E810DEh) Any ideas? Cheers *fingers crossed*
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/30 10:35:30
(permalink)
Not sure what to say about the CMD controller vs SiI. It may be OK, though I'm away from the studio right now so I can't compare. If you have only one SATA drive, you can't have RAID, but you still connect to the same controller, the SiI3112, which is called a SATA RAID controller regardless. Others have even hooked up two SATA drives as separate volumes, i.e. non-RAID. It doesn't change what the controller is called regardless. Did you update all of your MOBO drivers, including teh SATA RAID controller drivers? Use the ASUS support. Also use the built-in ASUS BIOS update utility and make sure you are up to date in that department. It's too bad Creative has the Firewire onboard. I suppose that it's nice, but the A7N8X Dlx has onboard Firewire integrated onto the Southbridge, which is far preferable since it doesn't contend for bandwidth on the physical PCI bus. Can you defeat it on the Creative card? What slot is your audio card in? On this MOBO, Slot 4 is best, Slot 3 is a no-no. And finally, since you have PowerStrip, please share your PCI latency timer values witht he rest of the world, would you?
< Message edited by losguy -- 3/30/2004 9:37:12 AM >
|
Slaine
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6
- Joined: 2004/03/30 08:30:23
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/30 16:04:33
(permalink)
Heya cheers for the reply ...
The points of info you need are:
1. THe CMD controller has no editable latency value, which is strange.
2.As far as I know I have the latest of all drivers etc., ... definately have the latest BIOS (the "uber" bios) and the latest Sil3112 (from the silicon image web site).
3.As far as I know I can't dissable the firewire on the Creative but it does come up in PowerStrip and the latency is editable so perhaps I should reduce that to zero?
4.The Sound card is the only PCI card installed so I put it in slot 5...
as for the PCI latency timer values:
Creative Labs Audio Device - 248
AsusTek Ethernet controller - 32
Creative Labs Firewire bus - 32
Gainward Display Controller - 96
Cheers...
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/30 17:20:31
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Slaine
The points of info you need are:
1. THe CMD controller has no editable latency value, which is strange.
That's sounding stranger all the time. If memory serves, it should show up as Silicon Image in PowerStrip. And, the latency should default to 32. Is the SATA controller even enabled in the BIOS? How does Device Manager report its existence? Look on your MOBO and verify that you have a SiI chip where it ought to be? (I think your MOBO manual will tell you where the chip is.)
3.As far as I know I can't dissable the firewire on the Creative but it does come up in PowerStrip and the latency is editable so perhaps I should reduce that to zero?
Yeah, but that won't disable it, it will just make it friendlier. What a drag... I guess you're stuck with it, then?
as for the PCI latency timer values:
Creative Labs Audio Device - 248
AsusTek Ethernet controller - 32
Creative Labs Firewire bus - 32
Gainward Display Controller - 96
Leave it to Creative to make a hoggy audio card! Is that the default value, or did you bump it up that high? I've seen video cards come from the factory that high, but never an audio card. Before this, the highest that I saw was where some reported on this thread that their Echo cards needed 192. (I thought even that was high, but hey, if it works...) Anyway, try to see how low you can get the creative card, maybe below 80.
|
Slaine
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6
- Joined: 2004/03/30 08:30:23
- Status: offline
RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2004/03/30 18:45:36
(permalink)
How does Device Manager report its existence?
Yep very strange... In the device manager I see "SCSI/RAID Host Controller" and "Silicon Image SiI 3112 SATARaid Controller". I'll check what is actually on hte PCB in the morning I guess Question: I am running in Andvanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) mode... is this likely to have anything to do with the mystery?
Yeah, but that won't disable it, it will just make it friendlier. What a drag... I guess you're stuck with it, then?
*shruggs* I guess so ... but there are worse things in life. 
Leave it to Creative to make a hoggy audio card! Is that the default value, or did you bump it up that high?
From what I can remember that's the default value but I was editing anything and ereything late the other night  ... I'll try reducing the latency on the audio card when everything else is glitch free.
|