brundlefly
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 11:51:23
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In fact, I am disappointed to learn that instead of SONAR running leaner, it now requires a more powerful CPU.
I think it's been fairly well established that If you use X1 the same way you used 8.5 (i.e. not running ProChannel on every track), it will run just as well on any given CPU, and possibly better*. The CPU "requirement" is all about supportability, and what platforms the release has actually been validated on. * My reference for this statement: http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2120483
post edited by brundlefly - 2010/11/11 12:05:28
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cmusicmaker
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 11:58:43
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It does look like Cakewalk want to wisely cover their backs. Better for them to say what additional power X1 will need than keep the requirements the same and leave some customers having issues with less powerful systems further down the line.
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Living Room Rocker
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 12:08:14
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brundlefly
In fact, I am disappointed to learn that instead of SONAR running leaner, it now requires a more powerful CPU.
I think it's been fairly well established that If you use X1 the same way you used 8.5 (i.e. not running ProChannel on every track), it will run just as well on any given CPU, and possibly better. The CPU "requirement" is all about supportability, and what platforms the release has actually been validated on.
Well then, upgrading to X1 is mitigated that much more since I already have an arsenal of quality compression and EQ plus plugins hich run well without the CPU upgrade. If it then comes down to workflow and a new look, then there is no reason to consider other options now then at any other time. Even after investing money and years of time into SONAR, this doesn't seem like much of a pay off at this point, even considering the lower price point. Thanks, Dave. Kind regards, Living Room Rocker
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Freddie H
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 12:19:19
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UnderTow! 
I'm just wondering: Why are you here? Why don't you go and write at Pro Tools FORUM and use your Pro Tools instead? Many of us are depending of 64bit support + there are 1000 more reason why not to use Pro Tools...
If you working with film, scoring, add sound FXS....you want to use NUENDO not Pro Tools HD....everyone knows that...
If you are working on a MAC you use LOGIC 9 x64bit...not Pro Tools HD...everyone knows that...
If you are on PC Windows 7 x64 you want to use SONAR x64 or Cubase x64.... not Pro Tools HD...majority seem to know that....
If you want to "MASTER" stuff you use Samplitude..... not Pro Tools.
...end of story
post edited by Freddie H - 2010/11/11 12:30:59
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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rhythminmind 
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 12:29:45
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Freddie Sonar is a nice music composition package. All of use purchased it after all. That's not being debated. The thread topic is "SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9"
The pros/cons of both. Protools will inevitably be better at some tasks & vice verse. UnderTow is a real-world knowledgeable user that uses both. There isn't that many of us. His viewpoints are valuable.
What are your 1000's reasons why not to use Pro Tools?
post edited by rhythminmind - 2010/11/11 12:33:37
"Any experiment of interest in life will be carried out at your own expense."
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cmusicmaker
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 12:30:27
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Freddie H
UnderTow!
Why don't you go and write at Pro Tools FORUM and use your Pro Tools instead? But he is using ProTools Freedie 
One can surely post on more than one forum and use more than one host. 
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ba_midi
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 12:32:28
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bapu
Is this thread still alive?
Amazing!
Ha, yeah - and filled with more opinion and speculation even though X1 isn't even out yet. I love it lol.
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Freddie H
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 12:33:01
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-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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ba_midi
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 12:35:21
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Freddie H
UnderTow!
I'm just wondering: Why are you here? Why don't you go and write at Pro Tools FORUM and use your Pro Tools instead? Many of us are depending of 64bit support + there are 1000 more reason why not to use Pro Tools...
If you working with film, scoring, add sound FXS....you want to use NUENDO not Pro Tools HD....everyone knows that...
If you are working on a MAC you use LOGIC 9 x64bit...not Pro Tools HD...everyone knows that...
If you are on PC Windows 7 x64 you want to use SONAR x64 or Cubase x64.... not Pro Tools HD...majority seem to know that....
If you want to "MASTER" stuff you use Samplitude..... not Pro Tools.
...end of story
Why don't you chill out Freddie. UnderTow isn't slamming Sonar at all. Stop being so defensive. I use/like Sonar as well, but having someone with experience in both Hosts is a good thing and should be welcomed not demeaned. Calm you ego a bit. And be open to opinions. Yours is valid too, but it doesn't have to be so arrogantly stated. Let's act like adults please.
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...wicked
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 12:49:01
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Freddie H
...everyone knows that...
...everyone knows that...
...majority seem to know that....
...end of story
Wow, I just learned so much.
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
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Jose7822
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 13:16:34
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...wicked
Freddie H
...everyone knows that...
...everyone knows that...
...majority seem to know that....
...end of story
Wow, I just learned so much.
LOL! Sorry Freddie, but that ^ was funny :-)
Intel Q9400 2.66 GHz 8 GB of RAM @ 800 Mhz ATI Radeon HD 3650 Windows 7 Professional (SP1) x64 Cubase 6.03 x64 Sonar PE 8.5.3 x64 RME FireFace 400 Frontier Design Alpha Track Studio Logic VMK-188 Plus http://www.youtube.com/user/SonarHD
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 13:37:18
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On the other hand, PT does have a good workflow inside the MIDI editor -- it's frankly a well-thought-out, fresh take -- a very clean/simple way to manage the data you work with from tracks/groups. DAW developers should take notice re: the ease of use of tracks inside the MIDI editor. It does have a Real-Time Properties editor where you can adjust quantize, transpose, etc... but that's frankly simplistic compared to what you can do with the more flexible Sonar MIDI plugins and other related tools. However, I far prefer the automation/lane tools in PT, although we don't know yet what improvements might be coming in Sonar X1. All in all, the PT MIDI editor is actually very good, but in terms of depth and breadth it's a solid generation or two behind Sonar's. That said, for what PT's MIDI editor does, it does well, and it is very clean and open, very easy to navigate and use. But if you need to get a lot out of MIDI, you'll get more tools and flexibility out of something like Sonar by far, compared to PT. So for a composer, it's really a no-brainer, in my opinion. The sequencing roots of Cakewalk really pay off. Well said...
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D K
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 14:09:55
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Freddie H
UnderTow!
I'm just wondering: Why are you here? Why don't you go and write at Pro Tools FORUM and use your Pro Tools instead? Many of us are depending of 64bit support + there are 1000 more reason why not to use Pro Tools...
If you working with film, scoring, add sound FXS....you want to use NUENDO not Pro Tools HD....everyone knows that...
If you are working on a MAC you use LOGIC 9 x64bit...not Pro Tools HD...everyone knows that...
If you are on PC Windows 7 x64 you want to use SONAR x64 or Cubase x64.... not Pro Tools HD...majority seem to know that....
If you want to "MASTER" stuff you use Samplitude..... not Pro Tools.
...end of story
Time to grow up Freddie...really is... the all caps in bold thing is geting old truth is with you... the messenger is drowning out the message
post edited by D K - 2010/11/11 14:11:54
www.ateliersound.com ADK Custom I7-2600 K Win 7 64bit /8 Gig Ram/WD-Seagate Drives(x3) Sonar 8.5.3 (32bit)/Sonar X3b(64bit)/Pro Tools 9 Lavry Blue/Black Lion Audio Mod Tango 24/RME Hammerfall Multiface II/UAD Duo
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Philip
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 14:19:04
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Though I currently agree Sonar is significantly better for the immediate future of DAWs, perhaps past paradigms die hard ... btw PT, Logic, Sonar, and Cubase.
My real questions are:
1) Which DAW will survive in the growing-home-producer environments ... that rely on in-the-box power ... with the fewest outboard entanglements. If I'd gamble, I'd bet on Win7/64 Sonar. Word of mouth may outdo 'ads'.
2) Forums are my 2nd top priority for my growing excellence ... will Sonar continue its excellent forum (members), with compassion for noobs and wanabees.
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Rain
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 15:30:17
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Bashing PT makes it look like there some sort of ongoing inferiority complex issue. This sort of anti Pro Tools propaganda is as pointless as all the hype itself.
We all wish Cake get the recognition they deserve, but an anti PT crusade and all that propaganda really won't help - it exposes one Sonar user and makes him look clueless and arrogant. If I were to make an opinion of a product based on its user's opinion...
10 years ago, it was a different story. You HAD to be using PT TDM on a Mac, and some had to deal with the sarcastic and condescending remarks.
Nowadays, it's sort of a non-issue. Most of the folks I deal with are quite open-minded. They won't switch to PC/Sonar tomorrow, but, why would they...
In any case, you won't rally them to your cause by bashing their tool. And you don't have to either.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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ba_midi
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 15:52:58
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Rain
Bashing PT makes it look like there some sort of ongoing inferiority complex issue. This sort of anti Pro Tools propaganda is as pointless as all the hype itself.
We all wish Cake get the recognition they deserve, but an anti PT crusade and all that propaganda really won't help - it exposes one Sonar user and makes him look clueless and arrogant. If I were to make an opinion of a product based on its user's opinion...
10 years ago, it was a different story. You HAD to be using PT TDM on a Mac, and some had to deal with the sarcastic and condescending remarks.
Nowadays, it's sort of a non-issue. Most of the folks I deal with are quite open-minded. They won't switch to PC/Sonar tomorrow, but, why would they...
In any case, you won't rally them to your cause by bashing their tool. And you don't have to either.
Well said, Rain.
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eratu
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 16:16:14
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I find this discussion fascinating, and have enjoyed watching other threads in other forums as well. A lot of audio nuts like us around the world are talking about it. I've seen a lot of restraint and open-mindedness overall (with some hilarious, notable exceptions) in this and other forums... my goodness, are people all over the world growing up? ;)
I do appreciate that Cake has let this thread continue... a lot of good discussion going on, which I believe will benefit the Sonar X1 launch.
All this just makes me realize once again how powerful all these tools are. :) It's so easy to get distracted by this or that feature.... but we all know that it really comes down to talent and skill in the end... these types of tools really have helped unleash amazing creative potential everywhere. The rest, really, is up to each of us.
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mikespitzer
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 17:08:50
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Well I looked into a demo for Pro Tools 9.0 just to see for myself ......... but alas ............ Avid says it will not run properly on anything earlier than Windows 7.
Pro Tools 9 will not operate under XP or Vista according to AVID.
Now I know some of you will say ...... Hey Mike , you should already be using Win 7 anyway.
Well my DAW is a Windows XP Professional machine built by PC Audiolabs running SONAR 8.3.1
It has been as rock solid as my old analog multitrack machines.
I have literally NEVER had a system lockup, freeze or any problem..........
So as you can probably guess ........ I AIN'T GONNA TEMPT FATE AND SCREW WITH IT AND INVITE TROUBLE NOW.
So maybe I will take a look at Pro Tools on some secondary PC (just work a few simple WAV files and see how the audio editing and GUI feels) if I can locate a PRO TOOLS 9.0 demo
Thanks
MS
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Zo
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 17:33:26
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try it on xp^...they just ain't supporting xp and vista .....or just not testing it on it but it might work without issues ......
For sale (PM me) : transfert ilok includedEventide Ultrachannel make offersSoftube Summit EQIK Neve 1081 , Neve precision Comp/LimEastWest GoshtwriterSoundforge Pro 12
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mikespitzer
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 18:11:01
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Zo
try it on xp^...they just ain't supporting xp and vista .....or just not testing it on it but it might work without issues ......
good suggestion -- based on early comments from people who have installed PT9, NOTHING has really changed except for them opening up the restrictions to use other interfaces and ASIO drivers. So you are probably right ...... XP PRO will be fine. Pro Tools 9.0 = Pro Tools 8.0 Unleashed
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mikespitzer
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 18:53:53
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Well no luck on the demo idea....
I don't see that AVID has a PRO TOOLS 9.0 TRIAL DEMO version to try
So much for that idea !
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rhythminmind
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 18:56:16
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This is one example video of why I prefer PT's audio handling. This is an example of a very basic editing task done in both PT & SPE. - Four multitrack audio clip/regions synced to the timeline (1:00:00)
- shifted/edited.
- Then set back to the original sync point down to sample accuracy.
http://www.youtube.com/wa.h?v=SYl2ojYx_BA&hd=1 I'll be the 1st to admit I'm nowhere near as proficient with Sonars editing tasks as in PT. But I haven't found a way to have = functionality for basic tasks like this in Sonar. With large projects I lose a lot of time & more importantly confidence that everything is time-aligned. PT has a handfull of easy ways to align anything to anything. And secondly what is with Sonars extending of clip/regions past audio content? Makes it a **** to get back to the original position. Preference option?
post edited by rhythminmind - 2010/11/11 18:57:51
"Any experiment of interest in life will be carried out at your own expense."
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 19:18:52
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No need to bash pro tools. It is a very nice product. Thing, is Sonar is too, and at a much lower cost for more under the hood.
Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS Motherboard i7 3770k CPU 32 gigs RAM Presonus AudioBox iTwo Windows 10 64 bit, SONAR PLATINUM 64 bit Lots of plugins and softsynths and one shot samples, loops Gauge ECM-87, MCA SP-1, Alesis AM51 Presonus Eureka Mackie HR824's and matching subwoofer
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mikespitzer
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 19:37:34
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We are not the only ones having a discussion of SONAR -vs- PRO TOOLS this week.
If you take a peek at the AVID forums ....... Pro Tools HD owners are NOT HAPPY right now.
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chrisharbin
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 19:54:20
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I'm happy In less than a month and for a whopping 99 bucks I'll get x1, soon after that (or is it before) reaper 4 will probably be in PB, and PT isn't x64 so it's 350 bucks I won't be spending. Life is good!
i7 860/MSI mobo/8GB ram/win7x64ultimate/X2/profire 610/oxygen 61/running 48k currently.
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Rain
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 19:57:17
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mikespitzer
We are not the only ones having a discussion of SONAR -vs- PRO TOOLS this week.
If you take a peek at the AVID forums ....... Pro Tools HD owners are NOT HAPPY right now.
Why? It's not like no one told them that there were native alternatives out there before today. Plus, if they really believe in the advantages of HD (I do believe there are), and not just the hype, a native version of Pro Tools makes no difference. Or is it because now just every one will be able to say they mix using PT? At least, until now, amateurs had to say they were using Sonar or Cubase, so it was easy to ear the difference between a pro/HD mix and an amateur/Cubase mix. There was an entry price. But now, who will be able to tell who's using what and who's who? Darn those wise tricky cheap talented "amateurs"... ;)
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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mikespitzer
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 20:10:07
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Rain
mikespitzer
We are not the only ones having a discussion of SONAR -vs- PRO TOOLS this week.
If you take a peek at the AVID forums ....... Pro Tools HD owners are NOT HAPPY right now.
Why?
It's not like no one told them that there were native alternatives out there before today. Plus, if they really believe in the advantages of HD (I do believe there are), and not just the hype, a native version of Pro Tools makes no difference.
Or is it because now just every one will be able to say they mix using PT? At least, until now, amateurs had to say they were using Sonar or Cubase, so it was easy to ear the difference between a pro/HD mix and an amateur/Cubase mix. There was an entry price.
But now, who will be able to tell who's using what and who's who?
Darn those wise tricky cheap talented "amateurs"... ;)
From a business angle I think you hit the nail on the head. My background is more business oriented than creative. From managing guitarist Yngwie Malmsteen, to building multi-million companies, to consulting for other corporations around the world to boost sales and profit , to helping companies design new products , etc...... I can tell you that clearly see the HD paradox. For years, PT-HD was PERCEIVED as this top of the ladder, professional recording studio environment in mush the same way big recordings studios in the 70s were seen. Now, that distinction gets blurred with Pro Tools 9.0 On one hand, AVID can embrace a whole new group of potential customers. On the other hand, they have a large list of existing customers who paid $15-20K to build a PT-HD studio and felt like they were ELITE. Now the value of some of the HD hardware has dropped overnight and the functionality of the higher end PT has now been opened up to a wider group of "common people". Technically many of the engineering pros on this forum may still understand some advantages of HD But in the real world ........... PERCEPTION BECOMES REALITY. The PERCEIVED differences in PRO TOOLS has been erased and now the HD folks not only feel "not so unique any more" ..... but also possibly threatened professionally by the possible lost of business they may experience.
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mikespitzer
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 20:10:59
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SIDE NOTE --- As a business suggestion, I wrote Cakewalk the day before yesterday suggesting they pay more attention to updating their list of Professionals using SONAR to help our favorite DAW be taken more seriously and respected in the industry.
I also started a Forum Topic asking about "household names" professionals using SONAR .
I don't know if it was pure coincidence - OR- They took my business advice ------------- but either way, I am happy to see they updated the HOME PAGE to announce SONAR was used for the new Black Ops Game !!!
Wise move !
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mikespitzer
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 20:32:51
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Another point that we have not really discussed here in terms of the FUTURE of
SONAR -vs- PRO TOOLS
I would expect Cakewalk & SONAR operating under Roland to have more future growth potential than Pro Tools now operating under Avid.
Anything is possible in business, but the Operating Structure of how Cakewalk is working under Roland has more potential than the "umbrella" that Avid has formed to encompass M-Audio, Pinnacle (yuk), and more.....
It all depends on how it is managed and promoted ------------ but with the artist and studio resources open to them via Roland, SONAR could certainly have great potential to become a much better known (and widely used) DAW.
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nachivnik
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Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/11 20:43:54
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Rain
mikespitzer
We are not the only ones having a discussion of SONAR -vs- PRO TOOLS this week.
If you take a peek at the AVID forums ....... Pro Tools HD owners are NOT HAPPY right now.
Why?
It's not like no one told them that there were native alternatives out there before today. Plus, if they really believe in the advantages of HD (I do believe there are), and not just the hype, a native version of Pro Tools makes no difference.
Or is it because now just every one will be able to say they mix using PT? At least, until now, amateurs had to say they were using Sonar or Cubase, so it was easy to ear the difference between a pro/HD mix and an amateur/Cubase mix. There was an entry price.
But now, who will be able to tell who's using what and who's who?
Darn those wise tricky cheap talented "amateurs"... ;)
That's why I don't see this move by Avid as particularly game-changing. Back when everyone used tape, people went to studios because of other resources, including talent (of the engineer). Those other resources (good rooms, good mics, etc.) and talent will still matter.
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