Helpful Reply[Solved for me] The Bakery - I do not understand it...

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azslow3
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2016/11/22 14:12:24 (permalink)

[Solved for me] The Bakery - I do not understand it...


Ask Questions
When you need help with a Cakewalk product, have a how-to question, or want to learn a production technique, you can get help and find answers here - no discussions here please.

If discussions are not allowed... who is going to answer these questions?
 

Discuss
Whether you're looking for a critique of your latest mix, or just have some thoughts about that sweet new ELO album, this is the place to discuss it with the Cakewalk community.

Yet another part of the forum covers that for the moment...
 

Share Ideas

This part of the forum IS already "closed".
 
Is that is planned as the REPLACEMENT for THIS forum or what???
 
post edited by azslow3 - 2016/11/23 04:25:37

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#1
scook
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/22 14:27:36 (permalink)
Might be a better post for the Bakery itself.
 
I believe the Bakery is new Feedback Portal mentioned http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Rolling-Updates#In-The-Oven
 
It does appear to be a replacement for this forum.
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Klaus
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/22 14:46:00 (permalink)
scook
It does appear to be a replacement for this forum.




What, what, what???

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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/22 14:54:53 (permalink)
scook
It does appear to be a replacement for this forum.




it does indeed http://bakery.cakewalk.com/How-It-Works 

just a sec

#4
Klaus
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/22 15:33:51 (permalink)
Ah, thanks for the link!
I wrongly assumed they'll close the forum for...well, nothing...
 
That's obviously not the case.
 
But looks like a major change...
 

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Anderton
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/22 15:51:55 (permalink)
Just seeing it for the first time. Seems to me like it's basically what we're doing here, but with a more formal structure that intends for the "cream" to rise to the top. 
 
For example in checking out the Ideas, it was great to be able to order by number of votes or number of views. I suspect that wading through the current Features and Ideas forum is daunting if you want to separate the "everyone wants this feature" from the "one person wants this feature." This new structure looks like it will make the process a lot easier. 
 
But...I'm also a data/statistics freak, so it hits my sweet spot 

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azslow3
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/22 15:53:49 (permalink)
scook
Might be a better post for the Bakery itself.

I do not like it... And with all respect to CW, this platform as a forum can be compared with a mailing list...
 

I believe the Bakery is new Feedback Portal mentioned http://www.cakewalk.com/P...ng-Updates#In-The-Oven

But only as a Feedback Portal... I was thinking it is going to be some place which is more tracking oriented as a forum. And it is! So, for publishing / voting / tracking wishes, that is a step forward.
But not for discussions...
 

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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/22 15:55:45 (permalink)
Yes, but a change for the better. It's designed to make the forum more useful as a reference.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#8
slartabartfast
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/22 17:30:25 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby BRainbow 2016/11/30 03:08:42
Anderton
Just seeing it for the first time. Seems to me like it's basically what we're doing here, but with a more formal structure that intends for the "cream" to rise to the top. 



That is not at all clear. A substantial portion of the traffic on this forum has to do with technical problems with the software i. e. support issues by peers. Those would hardly fall under discussions of the general nature of getting help with a product or how to questions. There is nothing in the list here that indicates peer technical support is part of the forum.
 
One of the big concerns expressed here is that too great a variety of topics being discussed makes it unmanageable, and there is a constant refrain, and editorial action by the moderators to move off topic threads to more well defined venues like Features, Techniques etc. The Barkery seems to be a surrender to the babble by inviting everything to a single forum. Numerical ratings may look more formal, but overall the list of topics to be discussed in the Bakery seems pretty formless to me. In any event, since virtually no one visits the designated specialty discussions now because questions there fall largely on deaf ears due to insufficient traffic and instead bring every topic here, these issues may be of no matter. 
 
 
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Anderton
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/22 17:44:26 (permalink)
slartabartfast
Anderton
Just seeing it for the first time. Seems to me like it's basically what we're doing here, but with a more formal structure that intends for the "cream" to rise to the top. 



That is not at all clear. A substantial portion of the traffic on this forum has to do with technical problems with the software i. e. support issues by peers. Those would hardly fall under discussions of the general nature of getting help with a product or how to questions. There is nothing in the list here that indicates peer technical support is part of the forum.

 
Well, there's nothing in the description of this forum that indicates peer technical support is part of it. I think saying "When you need help with a Cakewalk product" is more explicit regarding support than this forum saying "Discussion focused on the use of SONAR software." And if people tag properly, it should be much easier to located relevant answers than using this forum's search function. 
 
It seems to me the Bakery is modeled on (a perhaps more sophisticated version of) StackOverflow.com. If you look at the questions section, I have no reason to believe the Bakery would handle it differently.

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tenfoot
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/23 00:29:08 (permalink)
It seems to me that Cakewalk already has a very active, well moderated and successful forum. I am not entirely sure I see the point in messing with that. As they say; "if it ain't broke....." I for one would rather the bakers spend time on things in Sonar that actually are broken.
 
Of course I could be wrong. Maybe a new forum is just what everybody wanted:)

Bruce.
 
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tenfoot
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/23 00:44:24 (permalink)
On the other hand, having just checked out the list of November updates, my bad. I take it all back.  It certainly hasn't slowed anything down! All power to the bakers:)

Bruce.
 
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...wicked
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/23 00:49:09 (permalink)
Ah great, now I got TWO things to check every day. :-)

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ampfixer
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/23 02:06:36 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby ChristopherM 2016/11/23 11:01:05
You guys have taken everything I hate about social media and made it my daily experience. What is all the jibbering about reward points, and SERVICE GUARANTEES CITIZENSHIP!!!!!!!!! I can't believe it. Sound like something from an Orwell novel.
 
My signal can earn me rewards?? I have no signal, I'm a human being. Get the brain trust that put this together and give them all bonuses. And yes, the Sonar forum is a peer to peer support network regardless of has been previously said. I've asked for help and received it, I've been asked for help and given it. Fits the definition.

Regards, John 
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#14
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/23 02:19:47 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/11/23 13:10:48
I'm here to learn about my favorite DAW software - Sonar. I want to know what problems others are having and what solutions are offered by others. I'm not here to earn rewards and points or to have my posts voted down because somebody thought  it should be a discussion vice a question.
 
Sounds silly and childish to me. I'm not sure I'll want to participate in that.

 
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azslow3
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/23 04:24:58 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Shambler 2016/11/25 05:25:18
Yesterday I have started to write very offensive detailed post what I do not like in The Bakery...
But today I have found better solution for myself: I will never open it again. The problem is solved

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subtlearts
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/23 04:33:24 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk] 2016/11/23 10:52:25
I think it's ironic, given how much people have complained in the past about the forum software here, and the search (which was in fact basically useless, but at least Google was always there to pick up the slack), and the 'host' system, and so on... and now that CW has dropped what seems - at least on the surface - to be a brand new, modern, sleek and fast replacement, with a structure that would seem geared towards increased relevance and focus... and so of course we immediately react with a giant Hey wait a minute, what's wrong with this forum, we like it fine the way it is, we never asked you to change it!
 
Ach, human nature. 
 
I for one am cautiously intrigued. I will likely not focus much on optimizing my 'signal' for its own sake (just not wired that way), but I think the focus on quality answers to questions, and a content flagging system that should help, in an organic, community driven way, discourage some of the more egregious abuses that have gone on here for ages, are steps in the right direction. 

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Kamikaze
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/23 05:35:29 (permalink)
I'm confused. Where is this information. I've not seen and email or link. Or have I missed it?

 
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azslow3
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/23 06:41:10 (permalink)
Kamikaze
I'm confused. Where is this information. I've not seen and email or link. Or have I missed it?

Try to use "Features & ideas" board

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Kamikaze
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/23 08:05:23 (permalink)
azslow3
Kamikaze
I'm confused. Where is this information. I've not seen and email or link. Or have I missed it?

Try to use "Features & ideas" board


Thanks, I used to look there frequentlt, but as it seems largely ignored by the bakers, and voting seems completely irrelevant, I look there occasionally. I'm surprised they put it there as I wasn't sure the bakers knew that part of the forum actually existed.

 
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Kamikaze
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/23 08:19:20 (permalink)


 
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Kamikaze
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/23 08:31:51 (permalink)
View by Popular ideas, contains eleven (popular) Staff View Requests.
 
View from the main page, scroll to the bottom and see 'Popular Tags', 'Staff View', just Triplets handling is tagged.
 
The ostrich approach continues.

 
#22
pwalpwal
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/23 09:58:14 (permalink)
the bakery is not fully baked yet it seems

just a sec

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pwalpwal
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/23 10:00:29 (permalink)
azslow3
Yesterday I have started to write very offensive detailed post what I do not like in The Bakery...
But today I have found better solution for myself: I will never open it again. The problem is solved


at some point this server will go, so you will have to!!
 
i'm wondering how the "all forums in one" will work out... these marketing types, kuh...

just a sec

#24
pwalpwal
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/23 10:18:31 (permalink)
i just tried posting some stuff, it really needs some work still - who OK'd the go-live for this??

just a sec

#25
Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/23 10:29:00 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Karyn 2016/11/23 10:45:53
Kamikaze
View by Popular ideas, contains eleven (popular) Staff View Requests.
 
View from the main page, scroll to the bottom and see 'Popular Tags', 'Staff View', just Triplets handling is tagged.
 
The ostrich approach continues.
 

I'd try not to read too much into what is very much a work in progress. We're just rolling out The Bakery in very early stages. We've been calling it a "soft lunch" (credit goes to Willy) internally because we know its in it's early stages. Quite a lot has not been implemented yet, and because there is so little content you may inadvertently draw conclusions from the content that is or isn't there. 
 
Popular Tags, for example, populate as people start tagging content (which has barely been done so far). There's no human at Cakewalk saying what is or isn't popular here... the users are saying what is and isn't popular. Right now you're just seeing a small sample case because there's only around 10 new threads where tags have been created. We haven't tagged the existing Ideas yet.
 
The Ideas section is seeded from us importing the top 100 threads from the Features & Ideas forum. We didn't hand-pick our favorites, an application did some math and imported what people have been voting on. Unfortunately we'll have to take a bit of time to add some relevant tags manually. Both Cakewalk-Staff and the original posters can add tags to the current threads.
 
The Bakery is designed to be more and more helpful as time goes on. As people tag content throughout time, we'll have easier ways of discovering more about tags and topics we care about. For example, maybe I don't care at all about SONAR-Platinum, but I care about The-Bakery. Here's a link for that: http://bakery.cakewalk.com/Tag/The-Bakery
 
Maybe I care about both [The-Bakery] and [SONAR-Home-Studio]? Here's a link for that: http://bakery.cakewalk.com/Search?query=%5BSONAR-Platinum%5D%5BSONAR-Home-Studio%5D&postType=All
 
Maybe I'm a SONAR developer and am finally getting around to all those pesky Staff View things. Here's a link for that: http://bakery.cakewalk.com/Tag/Staff-View . It's pretty bare at the moment because things haven't been tagged, but in time this will be an incredibly useful tool for someone spending their time doing staff view development and trying to get to the bottom of things without having to read hundreds/thousands of lengthy posts to gain insight.
 
Again - as content is seeded and tagged the usefulness of this will grow exponentially. The current forum software, on the other hand, doesn’t allow the user to quickly customize topics they care about based on the user’s interests. Instead you get lumped into a forum that someone decided is how it should be organized.
 
Maybe I'm a Product Manager and really want to learn about popular features users are voting on. Seeing votes on ideas, votes on feedback for ideas, and views is an incredibly useful tool and something our PMs have been requesting for years from us. This isn't very different from an abundance of other applications out there that do this same exact thing (see Ideascale, GetSatisfaction).
 
Maybe I'm a SONAR user and just want to cut to the chase and find an answer to my problem? I can search for similar problems and see the Accepted Answer to a similar question and whether or not it has received a lot of upvotes. Not all advice is good advice. (See StackExchange where this system works incredibly well)
 
Maybe I just want to participate in the discussion but am flamed for having a different opinion. We'd like a community that is better at self-moderation so that the folks doing moderator type work don't feel like targets. (See Reddit). We may tweak the signal and rewards in the future, but you have to start from somewhere and the underlying point of it is two-fold:
  1. To prevent abuse. If someone just starts downvoting popular ideas to be a troll, they're abusing the system and are penalized for it. We can't simply have voting without having some type of enforcement on how the voting works.
  2. To reward helpful members. There's more to be said about helping other users solve their problems or sharing brilliant ideas that benefit the community as a whole then just... having a lot of posts.
Maybe I'm trying to learn about Cakewalk customers but can't really gauge what the popular opinion actually is. For example, who is to say any of the opinions in this thread resonate with the majority of our users? I have no idea - all I can go off is what IS said versus what ISN’T. It's all subjective to the reader, which isn't always the best thing to go off. What we do know, however, is that the overwhelming vast majority of our customers do not ever post on the Cakewalk Forum so it's difficult to use as a proper metric… especially when there aren’t really any indicators as to what is or isn’t a good question, idea, or discussion for us to spend time on.
 
All-in-all, the reason we've been putting time into The Bakery is because there isn't an off-the-shelf solution that offers us all of these various things. The solutions we've looked into either cater really well to Q+A, Product Management, or Discussions. We haven't really found one that does all 3 of those, and also allows us to customize things to our users' and Cakewalk's needs. This forum software, as an example, is incredibly difficult to customize because we do not have access to the source code and any reverse engineering and customization we do is immediately broken by the next update. It's not a worthwhile effort for us. The Bakery, on the other hand, can become whatever we want it to become.
 
So The Bakery is new, and we're optimistic about it because we know we can grow it into a useful tool for both Cakewalk and customers to use. Right now it is an infant though, and it definitely has a lot of knowledge to gain and growing to do. I can definitely relate to anyone’s concerns because this forum does have a ton of knowledge and useful members. Nobody is trying to squash that. Please try to work with us so we can make it better.

Ryan Munnis
Cakewalk
#26
pwalpwal
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/23 10:42:53 (permalink)


just a sec

#27
pwalpwal
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/23 10:43:33 (permalink)
right now, the bakery just adds to the confusion
 

just a sec

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bitman
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/23 10:45:49 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bapu 2016/11/23 11:17:12
Back to the usenet.
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ChristopherM
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Re: The Bakery - I do not understand it... 2016/11/23 10:55:11 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pwalpwal 2016/11/23 10:56:45
Am I the only one who gets a bad feeling when it takes Ryan more paragraphs than I had time to read to explain the rationale? Am I the only one who feels that the rating system is uncomfortably redolent of Black Mirror's Nosedive? 
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