ampfixer

Anderton

ampfixer
Is this about the Cakewalk forums or shifting traffic to HC and improve their bottom line. Do I see a conflict of interest here??

 
Of course not. Jeez. HC is already in discussion with various companies about hosting communities. It would be ridiculous and very rude NOT to offer the same opportunity to Cakewalk. 
 
A community like the Coffeehouse is very close-knit and I would hate to see that go away, if in fact that's what's planned (if it's not, never mind). I know about communities, the one I started on AOL has done three moves and been in continuous operation for over 21 years.
 
I saw the comments here and thought "Gee, I can actually do something to solve this" because I'm in a position where I can make sure that the community will have a home regardless. So sue me.

With all due respect Craig, I feel you straddle too many fences to be truly objective about this. You have a finger in every pie and will win regardless of the outcome. This is one case where you can't say you're just a software user like the rest of us. The fact that you are hovering here speaks volumes.

Would you prefer that I act like the rest of you, and wring my hands and complain instead of coming up with what I think is a creative AND DOABLE solution?
 
What kind of mentality would be against my pushing things around a bit and calling in some favors to make sure places like the Coffeehouse can survive?
 
Here I am advocating for the community and all you can see is ME winning regardless of the outcome. The reality is I'm trying to come up with a solution so the COMMUNITY wins regardless of the outcome. This wouldn't help me at all, or Harmony Central, because I highly doubt Cakewalk is going to be buying any ads. It helps a community I've come to appreciate and I want to see survive, even though it will make my life more difficult to do so.
 
If you can't recognize that people are capable of having motivations that aren't self-serving, I feel truly sorry for you.

ampfixer
 
 
With all due respect Craig, I feel you straddle too many fences to be truly objective about this. You have a finger in every pie and will win regardless of the outcome. This is one case where you can't say you're just a software user like the rest of us. The fact that you are hovering here speaks volumes.

Pretty harsh statement.
 
Why can an offered possible solution be seen so negatively?
 
Edit:
Didn't read the comments after post #89 while typing...

Anderton

azslow3PS. It will be nice if "mighty people" which have already participated in this thread can, in addition to describing the shining perspectives of not yet finished thing, answer on a strait and simple question from my first post and already repeated by other.

There may not be an answer. It may be an if-then situation. I don't know, nor would I.

I have thought that the decision to touch may be the only truly distinctive CW resource has "leaked" into your direction internally... It seems that is not the case.
 

What I DO know is that I can keep the community going if all else fails. You're welcome...not that anyone said "hey, cool, thanks for thinking of us." Instead I hear "conflict of interest" and "improving HC's bottom line." 

I must admit for me the intention of your HC post was even less clear then the Bakery HowTo
May be I am not a lone and so the reaction was what it was.
 

I'd take the time to explain the difference between support and community, and a forum and a community, and why it sure looks to me like Cakewalk decided to take complaints about wanting more support and a better way of dealing with the Features and Ideas concept seriously. But I suspect I'd be wasting my time.

I do not think that major complaints was how more support is organized or where CW is publishing the response on F&I. And may be I have overseen something during my short visit, but I have not noticed and "tags" or whatever in the new system dedicated to CW "support" nor "feedback". It looks like a forum/chat platform, with clear similarity to other such platforms but almost unreadable for me the top menu (unlike in other such platforms).
 
I do not see how all that "statistics", which may be helpful for CW, can help users. The only way I enter stackoverflow when I search for something is google. The same works fine in the current forum. Making digits 3 times bigger the the topic and putting the author on the other side of the page I guess supposed to train eyes and may be do some head moving gymnastic (if the monitor is bigger then 5''). I could continue, but I also think that is wasting time.
 

tlw

scook
I suspect it is because I changed the topic to more accurately reflect the issue
Click on your user ID in the upper right of the Bakery, open My "Profile" and scroll down to see "Recent Activity"

Might I suggest that if you're going to put responses to comments near the comment responded to you adopt an indenting system so it's clearer what goes where?

I have no more control or input in how the Bakery develops than you. I created threads yesterday on the Bakery in the hope that I could understand how it works and how to make it better. I see no percentage in discussing the threads here.

 

 
 
I use the Google when I want to find info. "Tags" seem so 2003.

ampfixer
Thank you Craig for saving the Cakewalk forums. You are a truly selfless individual. It's great that you are sticking up for all of us. You're a hero.
I'm just a user that doesn't like the new forum plans. I'm done in this thread before I get banned. 

 
I would think anyone who "doesn't like the new forum plans" would be interested in, if not in favor of, a solution that would allow the forums to continue. Obviously I was wrong.
 

azslow3
I must admit for me the intention of your HC post was even less clear then the Bakery HowTo
May be I am not a lone and so the reaction was what it was.

 
I apologize if it wasn't clear, I thought it was obvious I was talking about what could be done, e.g., "We could cover the hangout/social aspect that a forum like the Coffehouse currently provides." And I also said "Just thinking out loud here, but the more I think about this...hmm...I'm going to send an email to the powers-that-be at Cakewalk and see what they think."
 
I floated the idea to HC first to see if they'd even be willing to do it. When they said yes, I floated it here because I wasn't going to recommend Cakewalk do it unless the forumites were receptive to the idea of preserving the community if necessary by providing a home elsewhere. The only place I could provide a home is Harmony Central because I have influence there. However since the idea was initially met with a negative attack (I would have preferred comments pro or con on the merits of the suggestion), and since then no one has said they'd be in favor of hosting the forums somewhere else if necessary, I get the point. I've told HC there won't be any need to make room for another community in 2017, and consider the matter closed. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers with what I thought would be a simple solution if all else failed.

Anderton
 
 
I apologize if it wasn't clear, I thought it was obvious I was talking about what could be done, e.g., "We could cover the hangout/social aspect that a forum like the Coffehouse currently provides." And I also said "Just thinking out loud here, but the more I think about this...hmm...I'm going to send an email to the powers-that-be at Cakewalk and see what they think."
 
I floated the idea to HC first to see if they'd even be willing to do it. When they said yes, I floated it here because I wasn't going to recommend Cakewalk do it unless the forumites were receptive to the idea of preserving the community if necessary by providing a home elsewhere. The only place I could provide a home is Harmony Central because I have influence there. However since the idea was initially met with a personal attack, and since then no one has said they'd be in favor of hosting the forums somewhere else if necessary, I get the point. I've told HC there won't be any need to make room for another community in 2017, and consider the matter closed. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers with what I thought would be a simple solution if all else failed.

although understandable, that is disappointing, and i think may be regretted by others should these things come to pass

abacab

ampfixer
 
With all due respect Craig, I feel you straddle too many fences to be truly objective about this. You have a finger in every pie and will win regardless of the outcome. This is one case where you can't say you're just a software user like the rest of us. The fact that you are hovering here speaks volumes.

Hey Amp.  See my earlier post #82.

Do you see the irony in this post I wonder.

Sheesh, why are some people over the top about this?
The Bakery is only a day or two old. Give a little time. Has Cakewalk announced the closing of the forums?
I don't think so.
But also, Ryan and Craig take things so personally. Gentlemen, you don't always have to respond you know.
Mr Anderton: really are you going to not pursue the possibility of HC hosting because a couple of forum members tick you off? Doesn't that seem like an extreme response?
Anyway, KVR hosts companies as well. Maybe that is an avenue to look at.
I don't believe that you can overstate just how useful this forum is. Can you imagine" Oh no! All agents are booked" and NOT have any support?

scottfa
But also, Ryan and Craig take things so personally. Gentlemen, you don't always have to respond you know. 
Mr Anderton: really are you going to not pursue the possibility of HC hosting because a couple of forum members tick you off? Doesn't that seem like an extreme response?

There was not one positive comment about the idea. That's not taking it personally; that's a statistic. I have a responsibility to look out for everyone's best interest. I'm not going to try and convince HC to lose money hosting something when I can't point to anyone here saying "Wow, glad to hear we'll have a place to go just in case, good to know." HC has real, paying clients who sponsor forums and buy ads. I can't in good faith ask HC to do something pro bono for this community, even as a personal favor, when I can't show support. 
 
I'm sorry if it seems extreme but I put forth an idea, it got shot down, and I accept that. I have neither the time nor patience to try and convince the community to support an idea that (at least I think) benefits it. 

scottfa
Mr. Anderson:
I think everyone here sppreciates how much you give to the forums and Cajewslk in general. I would like you to continue to do these things but you seemed to be swayed by one of two individuals. You gave the rest if the community under 5 hours to rebut the complaints.
Surely the forums won't be closed tonight correct? Why not give it a few weeks before making any decisions?
I hope you reconsider and put the Sonar users best interests first.
Thanks.

Yup!  Never judge a group by the actions of a few.

tenfoot
 
 
 
I realise it is early days, but the whole concept of earning points and voting posts up and down leaves me cold. It seems to me how often a person posts gives little indication of the value of their contribution. Whilst there are some amazing frequent posters here who make a massive contribution,  sometimes the person with the deepest knowedge and the answer you need posts only rarely. They are some of the most valuable members here. I can't help but feel that encouraging people to post to earn 'citizinship' popularity points may appeal to all the wrong folk.
 

Again I agree 110%.
The idea of people earning points!!! Count me out please.

Pragi
And Mr. Craig and Ryan are very far away from taking discussions personal,
They are  extremly factual and patient which everybody can proof in several 
threads.

Unlike I have thought at the beginning, these two persons are representing 2 different groups.
 
Could Ryan directly answer on the original question: is the plan is to completely replace this forum by the Bakery or just replace the "Feedback" part of it?
With replacing the feedback almost everyone agree as a good idea, Ryan has written detailed explanation why. Also that is how long available statements on "Coming soon" could be interpreted. "Feedback portal". "... to easily share what they’d like to see in future SONAR updates ...". Discussions? Questions? The replacement for current forum?
 
So as a forum replacement, the motivation is less clear. Also Craig has at first written that the new system is "Seems to me like it's basically what we're doing here, but with a more formal structure that intends for the "cream" to rise to the top". And then has proposed and "alternative", just in case the change is really done, with long explanation that it is not an alternative, but "an addition", since support / community / cafe house are not the same things...
A bit insane. For me: "I see this as a a step forward for the feedback, but for general discussions not so. Do not worry, in case this forum is closed there will be another place" will sound more consequential. Is that the meaning? No? Am I the only one who find the discussion in this thread as not "extremely factual and patient"?

Wow, I go away for a day and the place practically explodes! ;)
 
I don't know what the official plans are for this forum, presumably it doesn't make sense in the long term to maintain two separate venues for much the same purpose so I imagine this will be phased out. Perhaps the content here can be archived in some way that makes it useful... but it might be *more* useful if it were pulled into the other zone in some curated kind of way. 
 
I am not clear yet on whether the Bakery will restrict the more conversational side of what's gone on here to the point that another forum would be needed, but if so I think it's a reasonable and generous offer for Craig to broker a solution at HC, it's a known and trusted space. But are we sure that the kind of off-the-cuff discussion we've generally enjoyed here (and not enjoyed so much, at times, when it gets acrimonious) will be, err, not allowed in the new place? 
 
I'm just asking...