Helpful ReplySome observations about StudioOne 3

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cparmerlee
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/03 01:45:10 (permalink)
ChuckC
it doesn't actually store that audio with the project.   It stores WHERE you imported the files FROM instead (my desktop) and is now looking for missing files... 



But the links are relative to the project file, correct? In other words, you can move the project file together with its MEDIA folder to some other file location, right?
 
That certainly works on songs. I have not used the mastering view.

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Chandler
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/03 02:20:40 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby cparmerlee 2017/03/03 02:47:28
I agree with the complaints about Sonar's export. I've been burned by that too. I export my song and shut down Sonar. I put the song in my iPhone and as I'm walking down the street I realize it only exported the bass. This has happened multiple times.

The export should select all tracks automatically and go to the last note and then add 3 or 4 sec. That should be the default and other things like individual track export or partial track export should be advanced options. This IMO would be a big workflow improvement and would get rid of a lot of frustration.

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#32
sharke
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/03 03:51:49 (permalink)
I did install the demo recently, mainly because I wanted to see if certain GUI issues that have been plaguing me for ages with Sonar were the fault of Sonar or my computer. What I was immediately impressed with was how much slicker and smoother the GUI is compared to Sonar (it turns out the Sonar GUI is just very sluggish in some areas, not my PC) and how great it felt to move around the interface and resize things. It really does feel like a new app that's been built from the ground up with fresh code. I really like the arranger track and scratchpad and I dearly hope that Sonar implements something similar in the future because the ease with which you can play with arrangements in S1 is way beyond Sonar.
 
I didn't play with it enough to get a really in depth opinion however, but one thing I didn't like was that the console strips don't seem to have a numeric peak level readout like the Sonar strips. I've come to depend on those so much in Sonar that I couldn't imagine not having them in another DAW. Maybe I'm wrong and they're there somewhere - I did look all over for some kind of option to enable them but no joy.

James
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#33
sharke
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/03 03:54:08 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2017/03/07 16:03:35
Chandler
I agree with the complaints about Sonar's export. I've been burned by that too. I export my song and shut down Sonar. I put the song in my iPhone and as I'm walking down the street I realize it only exported the bass. This has happened multiple times.

The export should select all tracks automatically and go to the last note and then add 3 or 4 sec. That should be the default and other things like individual track export or partial track export should be advanced options. This IMO would be a big workflow improvement and would get rid of a lot of frustration.



What's wrong with simply selecting the "What You Hear" preset in the export dialog? This does exactly what it says on the tin and sounds exactly what you're looking for. 

James
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#34
cparmerlee
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/03 05:22:08 (permalink)
sharke
Chandler
I agree with the complaints about Sonar's export. I've been burned by that too. I export my song and shut down Sonar. I put the song in my iPhone and as I'm walking down the street I realize it only exported the bass. This has happened multiple times.

The export should select all tracks automatically and go to the last note and then add 3 or 4 sec. That should be the default and other things like individual track export or partial track export should be advanced options. This IMO would be a big workflow improvement and would get rid of a lot of frustration.



What's wrong with simply selecting the "What You Hear" preset in the export dialog? This does exactly what it says on the tin and sounds exactly what you're looking for. 


The problem has to do with selecting tracks and chopping off the reverb tail. The presets don't affect either of those, do they?  In other words, even if you use the "What You Hear" preset, you still have to select all the tracks and set the ruler, true?

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#35
The Grim
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/03 06:10:02 (permalink)
Kylotan
 
One more thing:
cparmerlee
There seems to be no way to archive tracks. That is a really important feature IMHO.

Right-click on track, choose Disable Track. Seems to be much the same thing.
 



exactly, it's just ignorance (meant in a nice way) lack of knowledge in the program, just like the other day someone said you couldn't freeze a melodyne track to free things up and then bring it back in studio one, same thing, ignorance and lack of knowledge and time spent. i use to come across the same all the time with people saying reaper couldn't do this or that, i had used reaper for a number of years at that time, only intermittently now, but it was the same, reaper could most certainly do it, they just didn't know how. whatever you use, use it and learn it, and don't go slagging off something you haven't spent much time with, because more likely than not you just don't know how to accomplish it, not a deficiency in the program, but 'pilot error' kinda thing
#36
dcumpian
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/03 13:24:03 (permalink)
Chandler
I agree with the complaints about Sonar's export. I've been burned by that too. I export my song and shut down Sonar. I put the song in my iPhone and as I'm walking down the street I realize it only exported the bass. This has happened multiple times.

The export should select all tracks automatically and go to the last note and then add 3 or 4 sec. That should be the default and other things like individual track export or partial track export should be advanced options. This IMO would be a big workflow improvement and would get rid of a lot of frustration.



This is the default if you select <none>...
 
Dan

 
 
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#37
dcumpian
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/03 13:25:56 (permalink)
cparmerlee
sharke
Chandler
I agree with the complaints about Sonar's export. I've been burned by that too. I export my song and shut down Sonar. I put the song in my iPhone and as I'm walking down the street I realize it only exported the bass. This has happened multiple times.

The export should select all tracks automatically and go to the last note and then add 3 or 4 sec. That should be the default and other things like individual track export or partial track export should be advanced options. This IMO would be a big workflow improvement and would get rid of a lot of frustration.



What's wrong with simply selecting the "What You Hear" preset in the export dialog? This does exactly what it says on the tin and sounds exactly what you're looking for. 


The problem has to do with selecting tracks and chopping off the reverb tail. The presets don't affect either of those, do they?  In other words, even if you use the "What You Hear" preset, you still have to select all the tracks and set the ruler, true?




False. As long as you mute or archive any tracks you do not want to hear, select <none>, then "What You Hear" will export exactly that, including reverb tails.
 
Dan
 

 
 
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#38
sharke
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/03 15:10:49 (permalink)
I think part of the problem is that people don't even look at the export presets, they struggle along with all the options and get frustrated that such a simple end result is fraught with pitfalls. For this reason I really think Cake should have a "What You Hear" button in full technicolor right on the export dialog instead of hidden away in a preset menu.

James
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#39
BobF
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/03 15:35:10 (permalink)
sharke
I think part of the problem is that people don't even look at the export presets, they struggle along with all the options and get frustrated that such a simple end result is fraught with pitfalls. For this reason I really think Cake should have a "What You Hear" button in full technicolor right on the export dialog instead of hidden away in a preset menu.



How 'bout confirmation dialog?
 
"Are you really, really sure you don't want to use the What You Hear preset?" [yes] [NO]

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#40
Anderton
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/03 16:57:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby hockeyjx 2017/03/04 02:10:02
sharke
I think part of the problem is that people don't even look at the export presets



Possibly another part of the problem is that people are lazy. It took me ten minutes to nuke the existing presets I didn't need, and create presets that covered every export situation I encounter on a regular basis. I haven't had to think about exporting since spending those 10 minutes unless I need to do something that's really off the wall...in which case I'm glad all those check boxes exist.
 
Hmm...sounds like Tip of the Week fodder...

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#41
pwalpwal
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/03 17:08:41 (permalink)
if cakewalk want to keep the new users they attract, then these kind of default (lazy) settings should maybe given the once over

just a sec

#42
Anderton
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/03 18:33:10 (permalink)
pwalpwal
if cakewalk want to keep the new users they attract, then these kind of default (lazy) settings should maybe given the once over



And the should also make the dialog box Help button neon red, glowing, and twice the size of all other buttons. Otherwise how will people know that if you don’t check the Track Automation box, “any volume and pan automation, including initial volume and pan settings, is ignored when creating the new file(s). The amplitude of the raw data in the tracks is used, and the pan is C, or centered.”
 
This is incredibly useful when exporting raw files for remixes. I wonder how many people even know this option exists?

The full-length, 12-song "video album" Neo-Psychedelic Music for the 21st Century is now posted on my YouTube channel - yes, it was all done with SONAR.
 
Note: The opinions expressed in this post were written by Craig Anderton in his personal capacity and do not necessarily reflect the views of Cakewalk Inc. or Gibson Brands Inc.
#43
pwalpwal
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/03 18:46:50 (permalink)
Anderton
pwalpwal
if cakewalk want to keep the new users they attract, then these kind of default (lazy) settings should maybe given the once over



And the should also make the dialog box Help button neon red, glowing, and twice the size of all other buttons. Otherwise how will people know that if you don’t check the Track Automation box, “any volume and pan automation, including initial volume and pan settings, is ignored when creating the new file(s). The amplitude of the raw data in the tracks is used, and the pan is C, or centered.”
 
This is incredibly useful when exporting raw files for remixes. I wonder how many people even know this option exists?


good idea, like a "tutorial mode" quite common in games

just a sec

#44
cparmerlee
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/04 01:56:02 (permalink)
dcumpian
False. As long as you mute or archive any tracks you do not want to hear, select <none>, then "What You Hear" will export exactly that, including reverb tails.

That is not what my testing shows. When I select nothing and use What You See preset, I get the tail stuck onto the BEGINNING of the WAV file -- believe it or not. Following that tail is an extra 5 seconds of silence that is beyond any of the clips.  I do not believe it is safe to use the "select nothing" mode.  The only time I have consistently obtained reliable results is when I carefully select every track and carefully set the exact beginning and end on the ruler.
 
I should point out that in this case, the clips are narrowed down (using the split command and cropping) from a continuous 60 minutes of program, so maybe that somehow accounts for the "tail-sounding thing" that is inserted at the beginning of the exported file.  When I play the material in real time, it is definitely silent at the beginning of the clips.
 
This is the problem.  The EXPORT behavior is all over the map.  It may be adequately predictable for some of you.  For me, it seems mostly random and a continuous source of frustration, and clearly I am not alone in this experience.
 
 

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#45
dcumpian
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/06 13:31:22 (permalink)
cparmerlee
dcumpian
False. As long as you mute or archive any tracks you do not want to hear, select <none>, then "What You Hear" will export exactly that, including reverb tails.

That is not what my testing shows. When I select nothing and use What You See preset, I get the tail stuck onto the BEGINNING of the WAV file -- believe it or not. Following that tail is an extra 5 seconds of silence that is beyond any of the clips.  I do not believe it is safe to use the "select nothing" mode.  The only time I have consistently obtained reliable results is when I carefully select every track and carefully set the exact beginning and end on the ruler.
 
I should point out that in this case, the clips are narrowed down (using the split command and cropping) from a continuous 60 minutes of program, so maybe that somehow accounts for the "tail-sounding thing" that is inserted at the beginning of the exported file.  When I play the material in real time, it is definitely silent at the beginning of the clips.
 
This is the problem.  The EXPORT behavior is all over the map.  It may be adequately predictable for some of you.  For me, it seems mostly random and a continuous source of frustration, and clearly I am not alone in this experience.
 
 




There is a setting in Preferences that is causing the tail to be stored in the buffer and it ends up in front of the export. Enable "Play effect tails after stopping" and the problem will go away.
 
Regards,
Dan

 
 
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#46
Rimshot
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/06 14:48:44 (permalink)
I have used SPLAT for years and am a lifer. I've got the color scheme dialed in nicely for me and I love the mix recall option. 
However, the way I work these days is right when I am starting to mix, I find I need to make a change to the source like bring the bass up or apply better EQ to something. SOP's project lets me drill right into the song, make the change, and then update the mix all live. That is an incredible feature and really helps me.
I also can edit audio clips much faster in SOP. 
SPLAT is better with memory management IMO but that has not hurt me at all. 
I use them both and am glad they are in my toolbox.
 

Rimshot 

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#47
Atsuko
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/06 18:58:39 (permalink)
Chandler
I agree with the complaints about Sonar's export. I've been burned by that too. I export my song and shut down Sonar. I put the song in my iPhone and as I'm walking down the street I realize it only exported the bass. This has happened multiple times.

The export should select all tracks automatically and go to the last note and then add 3 or 4 sec. That should be the default and other things like individual track export or partial track export should be advanced options. This IMO would be a big workflow improvement and would get rid of a lot of frustration.

 
Don't select anything and let the default settings that everything will be exported.

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#48
BobF
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/06 22:45:19 (permalink)
Rimshot
I have used SPLAT for years and am a lifer. I've got the color scheme dialed in nicely for me and I love the mix recall option. 
However, the way I work these days is right when I am starting to mix, I find I need to make a change to the source like bring the bass up or apply better EQ to something. SOP's project lets me drill right into the song, make the change, and then update the mix all live. That is an incredible feature and really helps me.
I also can edit audio clips much faster in SOP. 
SPLAT is better with memory management IMO but that has not hurt me at all. 
I use them both and am glad they are in my toolbox.
 


Did you mean to say, "However, the way I work these days is right when I am starting to master, ..." ?
I have to say that the mastering process in SO3 is superb.  As are the VCA and Folder implementations.
 
OTOH, the GUI is what the GUI is.  You can change colors, but panel locations are what they are with no option for rearranging things.  You can detach, but you can't rearrange panels in the application window.  Bummer.

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#49
Cactus Music
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/07 00:38:58 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2017/03/07 16:07:16
I'm reading all these complaints about export and scratching my head. I totally agree with Atsuko. 
Way back in Guitar studio day's someone here said "use Select none, not select all"  
I have never changed the export options, They seem pre set to work properly version after version for me.   I will change the default 32 to 16 for CD's and that's it. 
I of course I have always been aware of checking that little "play the tails" box too. Seems that must be the default or possibly Sonar remembers that for me when I update.  
 
I have never, ever had an export not play exactly like what it was supposed to sound like in 10 years. 
 
And I would never dream of releasing a song without proofing it first. 
 
 

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#50
Anderton
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/07 00:44:00 (permalink)
BobF
I have to say that the mastering process in SO3 is superb. 



I agree 100% that the assembly part of mastering in SO3 is superb, as are the analytics. But when you need to do waveform surgery, noise reduction, custom fades, etc., Wavelab and Sound Forge are still the only kind of programs that let you dig that deep. I use SOP for assembly on all album projects, but I rely on several other programs (including SONAR) during the mastering process. 
 
To follow up on a previous post, the latest maintenance update did fix the DDP export and CD-burning problems I experienced - if you haven't grabbed it yet, you should.

The full-length, 12-song "video album" Neo-Psychedelic Music for the 21st Century is now posted on my YouTube channel - yes, it was all done with SONAR.
 
Note: The opinions expressed in this post were written by Craig Anderton in his personal capacity and do not necessarily reflect the views of Cakewalk Inc. or Gibson Brands Inc.
#51
soens
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/07 09:45:26 (permalink)
Never used it but I see it runs on Mac & Windows AND they offer a mobile device remote app for each.
#52
Chandler
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/07 15:39:21 (permalink)
I happy so many people are trying to help, but after testing it again I can again confirm it doesn't work. I tried "none", "all" and "What you hear" and it didn't work. The first time I got 5 sec of the song and after that I got chopped tails. I even tried adjusting "clip tail duration" and it still didn't work. It is actually cutting out about half a sec before the final note. It would be nice if it worked like it said on the tin, but the only reliable way I can get it to work is the hard way.

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#53
rlared
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/07 16:00:20 (permalink)
I like Sonar Platinum better than S1 V3.
- Sonar has Groove Clips
- Sonar has Step Sequencer
- I like Skylight interface way better than S1's interface
- I don't like S1's mixer. . . it just seems un-intuitive to me for some reason
- I love the quick grouping in Sonar
- I like the MIDI editing in Sonar better
- I find the routing in S1 to be less intuitive for some reason, but that just might be my perception.
- I think Sonar has a nicer theme (Mercury) . . I don't like dark themes and S1 forces you to use a dark one.
 
There are some really nice things about Studio One though:
- Regions
- Scratch Pad
- Nice MIDI effects
- Browser is nicer
- Gapless audio engine
- S1 can run on Mac 
- Better visual feedback when you change the clip gain
- I've heard that the transient detection is better
 
Just depends on taste really.  Both are great DAWs.  

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#54
Sanderxpander
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/07 16:44:52 (permalink)
Craig, what essential multitracking features does Studio One miss that you use in Sonar?

EDIT: And thanks everyone, I haven't said much because I don't use S1 but it's been a very informative thread.
#55
Anderton
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/08 02:28:48 (permalink)
I like Studio One and I know the guys there, they are friends and just as dedicated as SONAR's developers. So I'm not comfortable doing a "SONAR does this, SOP does this" type of comparison. Furthermore it's possible to buy products for SOP that help make up for the difference, like a Drum Replacer (although it won't have SONAR's ARA integration) or VocalSync. You can get a Matrix view by rewiring Ableton Live into SOP. You can make up for the lesser number of instruments by rewiring Reason into SOP...or buy a bridge if you have 32-bit plug-ins. Things like DSD support, the lack of a fret view, or ability to generate tab would probably be considered inconsequential by most people but they aren't to me. I like the way SONAR handles grouping better although of course you can group with SOP. You don't have to use all of SONAR's notepad-type features, you can open a Word document and save it with your project. I use SONAR's export presets to good advantage but of course you can export from SOP, just not in the same way. And so on. If SONAR disappeared tomorrow I could use SOP and happily make music, no problem.
 
So I'll mention four things that pretty much every other DAW can't do, with of course the caveat there are things SOP can do that other DAWs can't do as well but that's not the point. This is about what I need in order to make a living from using a DAW.
  • Plug-in load balancing. I don't need this all the time, but when I do, it's aces.
  • Upsampling. Given how much work I do in the box, and the audible difference this can make, it's essential for me. There are workarounds to doing this in other DAWs (i.e., what I used to do in SONAR before this existed) but the set-and-forget nature and integration into the control bar is so convenient.
  • Mix Recall. Not quite sure how I lived without it.
  • Edit and create Acidized files. Actually Acid Pro can do this too, but it's limited in many other ways. Sure, you can use DSP to stretch, but with video projects I often have to make tempo changes to have hit points line up and only Acidized or REX files will follow, but REX files are more limited in what they can do in terms of fidelity with sustained sounds. Furthermore, a lot of commercially available Acidized loops are poorly edited, so they don't stretch well. SONAR lets me fix them and make them usable. 
This just underscores my point, often repeated in this forum, that no DAW does everything. So you pick the one that matches your needs the best. Thankfully, there's enough competition that there's pretty much something for everybody. The onus is on the user to do their research and pick the correct DAW for their needs.
 
For me, that was - and remains - SONAR. If anyone thinks I have to use it because Gibson acquired Cakewalk, I've been using SONAR since it first came out, and I could use whatever I want in the privacy of my studio...but it's SONAR that gets the nod.

The full-length, 12-song "video album" Neo-Psychedelic Music for the 21st Century is now posted on my YouTube channel - yes, it was all done with SONAR.
 
Note: The opinions expressed in this post were written by Craig Anderton in his personal capacity and do not necessarily reflect the views of Cakewalk Inc. or Gibson Brands Inc.
#56
Sanderxpander
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/08 07:50:33 (permalink)
I think that's fair, thanks for your insights.

I still haven't set up plug in upsampling. It would be really nice if there would be a suggestion list of plugins that are known to benefit so I don't have to go and A/B my 908 plugins one by one.
#57
cparmerlee
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/08 22:03:39 (permalink)
dcumpian
There is a setting in Preferences that is causing the tail to be stored in the buffer and it ends up in front of the export. Enable "Play effect tails after stopping" and the problem will go away.

According to this page, that option is supposed to be in Edit > Preferences > Audio - Playback and Recording.


I don't see it there or anywhere else.

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#58
BobF
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/08 23:40:25 (permalink)
Does this one do it?
 


Bob  --
Angels are crying because truth has died ...
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#59
cparmerlee
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Re: Some observations about StudioOne 3 2017/03/09 00:22:32 (permalink)
BobF
Does this one do it?
 



No, I don't believe so.  My understanding is that applies only to the process of bouncing clips. I wish it did apply to the file export process, but I went around on that one a few months back with Sonar support. They said it was never intended to work with export, only with bouncing.
This is the kind of thing that makes Sonar so maddening.  It is a powerful program, but many things seem way too complicated.  Who would ever want the option to not finish the tail, and to dump it at the beginning of the next file exported?  I mean, that is just absurd. Nobody could possibly want such behavior, so why even have an option that has this result? With StudioOne, I hit export and that's what happens. No muss, no fuss, and no lengthy explanations of why I didn't set my options just right.

DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Presonus 1818VSL
OS: Windows 10 64-bit CPU: Haswell 4790 4.0 GHz, 4 core, 8 thread  Memory: 16 GB      Video: GTX-760Ti
Storage: Sandisk SSD 500GB for active projects. ReadyNAS 20 TB for long-term storage

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#60
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