Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ...

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Bub
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2013/01/18 11:25:48 (permalink)

Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ...

As a matter of perspective, there have been many valuable members at the forum that have chosen to leave and no longer share info with us because the place is no longer self governed as family friendly.

I miss many of the nice people who will not put up with this sort of demonstration of callousness.

all the very best,
mike
Can you please be more specific on this Mike.

I really think if you are going to make a statement like that, you need to man up and call people. It's blanket generic statements like this that cause more problems than they solve.

So ... since you brought it up, it seems we have some grievances to air out here and it looks like it's time to address it so things can get back to normal because yes, I've noticed it's changed here too.

And if I am part of the problem ... I will be the first one to admit that I am what I am and will never change. I can be rude, abrupt, obnoxious, opinionated. I could go on, but you get the picture. I say things here that I would say to everyone's face. I don't sugar coat. I'm an old timer that's not really in to the whole 'net' thing and this is the only place I frequent. So, if I am part of this problem in any way, I'll gladly bow out and let things get back to the way they were.

"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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    synkrotron
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 11:43:06 (permalink)
    Do families really frequent this forum? Or have ever?

    Just wondering...

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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 11:44:25 (permalink)


    Well I have received several private messages over the past few years stating this idea explicitly.

    I will keep our correspondence private but I will say that these people did make public requests here at the forum and the requests have been ignored and you don't see them around very much anymore.

    I do not have a observation about anything you have posted Bub. 

    I think the title of the thread where I posted the passage you quoted speaks for itself.

    I've been known to hang out with a fairly rough crowd... so I know what that word means. :-)

    I don't think any of us should presume to know what others should not be offended by and I think there are some fairly basic notions of what does and doesn't fly.



    Posting photos of a sausage that look like penis... it doesn't fly.

    Using a word in public that my buddies use every day but that offends my wife to no end... it doesn't fly. 

    This isn't some edgy comedy show that I paid a ticket to see... this is a public place where people of all backgrounds can come together and should not feel intimidated by someone else's sense of open minded thoughtlessness.




    I'm not trying to bust anyone's chops. I think it can be self governing and easy going... but it takes a group of people acting like a community.




    Here's the part that perplexes me... what is up with the spineless, passive, non committal, no comment witness to this sort of behavior that occurs here?

    If I see any of my buddies ignoring, or worse laughing along with, this type of behavior in the presence of people who are offended by it I second guess my choice of buddies.

    I've known motor cycle gangs whose members exhibit better manners when interfacing with people outside the inner circle. 




    It's been a disappointing experience to see it happen.








    best regards,
    mike



     


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    sharke
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 11:44:44 (permalink)
    Meh, the thing about causing "offense" is that people make a conscious decision to be offended. And they do that because they enjoy feeling indignant. It gets to the point where people are demonizing each other for making what, when it comes down to it, are harmless statements, or at least things which should be water off a duck's back. The whole "feeling offended" industry is offensive in itself (or am I just saying that because I enjoy feeling offended about people who say they're offended by me). 

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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 11:53:47 (permalink)
     
     I ask you to re read the first post I addressed to you on this subject and then I ask you to think about the likely hood that a thug such as myself would have a need to feel indignant compared to the idea that I may just stating the obvious and hoping you will recognize it as such.




     If I ever get to New York City maybe we can get together and go see some cutting edge stand up and laugh like happy fools.


     all the best,
    mike


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    sharke
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 12:03:33 (permalink)
    I'm not suggesting that you felt offended by it Mike, and I understand the point you made about other people possibly being offended, but I respectfully disagree. What if I were a militant vegetarian who loved horses, and seeing people being flippant about horse meat in the horseburger thread upset me terribly? Is my indignation valid? Some women feel offended by the word "chick" (I've been berated for using that word too) yet I notice you had nothing to say about the "chicks w/long necks" thread. 

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    jamesg1213
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 12:10:01 (permalink)
    Speaking as a 'Brit' (whatever that is) I could get 'offended' just about every day here by wisecracks about British teeth and cooking. Luckily I have a sense of humour...

    ...and teeth like a 200 year old graveyard.

    Better go, my faggots are burning.

     
    Jyemz
     
     
     



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    Beagle
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 12:14:38 (permalink)
    mike - I don't know if you had me in mind when writing that or not, and it doesn't really matter if you did.  I am convicted by your words.  I have been "lax" in my tolerance and even participation of things on this forum which I should not have been doing.

    I will re-evaluate my behavior.  thank you.  (I'm being sincere - not snarky).

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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 12:19:10 (permalink)
    Hi Beagle,

     I was glad to see you voiced your opinion.

    all the best,
    mike


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    sharke
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 12:24:07 (permalink)
    jamesg1213


    Speaking as a 'Brit' (whatever that is) I could get 'offended' just about every day here by wisecracks about British teeth and cooking. Luckily I have a sense of humour...

    ...and teeth like a 200 year old graveyard.

    Better go, my faggots are burning.

    Do they know what "faggots" (the food) is in America, I wonder? I never ate them as a kid but I remember reading comic books in which "faggots" were portrayed as a food that kids turned their noses up at. Kind of like tripe. I had a relative who loved tripe....he said he didn't even have to chew it, it would just wriggle down his throat. 

    James
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    drewfx1
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 13:15:01 (permalink)
    Mike, I'd like to lend my support to your position here.

    The fact that some may be overly offended by things that others of us regard as innocuous is no reason ignore their sensibilities.

    IMHO, it is disrespectful to our fellow members to post things we know to be offensive to them, just as it is disrespectful to take up subjects that are expressly against the TOS. If there is no particular need to post things some might find offensive, why do so here?

    Now reality is that sometimes there will be borderline things posted and the borders may move over time. But I would hope that if I post something that someone finds offensive they would point it out to me so I can recalibrate my standards.

    I can't imagine that I would feel overly deprived by being unable to post something potentially offensive to some here in our tiny corner of the interwebs.

     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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    tom1
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 13:31:01 (permalink)
    The fact that some may be overly offended by things that others of us regard as innocuous is no reason ignore their sensibilities.
    　
     Absolutely; but at the same time some people are offended if you say hello to them.     :)
     
    To all of us: LIGHTEN UP!
     

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    Bub
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 13:34:42 (permalink)
    mike_mccue

    Well I have received several private messages over the past few years stating this idea explicitly.

    I will keep our correspondence private but I will say that these people did make public requests here at the forum and the requests have been ignored and you don't see them around very much anymore.

    I do not have a observation about anything you have posted Bub.
    I admit, I don't read every thread here. Well, lately I do because there are so few, but for the longest time when Bapu was posting, they went so fast that I didn't read them all unless the subject line caught my attention. (Side note: I long for those days again and I'm saddened that it's not like that any more. Those quick posts and humor were the reason I started coming here.)

    All that said, I only ever recall someone being called out here in public once for something offensive, and it was me. And I was banned for it, even though I apologized and removed the post, which I still don't understand, but what the heck, no sense crying over spilled milk.

    If someone PM'd you and didn't address it with the person that actually offended them, then it's their own fault. We all have a right to be here, and if we are offended by something, we should address it with the person offending them. Not go crying to someone else and let it fester.

    This has not been the same place for quite some time now. I keep coming here hoping it will get back to what it was, but I think it's too late. It's pretty clear it's not going to be the same place it was.

    Gotta go stare out the window until the wife gets home. Makes for long days I tells ya.

    "I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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    sharke
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 13:41:23 (permalink)
    tom1


    The fact that some may be overly offended by things that others of us regard as innocuous is no reason ignore their sensibilities.

    Absolutely; but at the same time some people are offended if you say hello to them.     :)
     
    To all of us: LIGHTEN UP!
     
    Exactly, in fact I question the whole motive behind feeling "offense" in the first place. I can understand it when someone launches a personal attack on another person, but it's this "group offense" that I question. People who feel offended on behalf of some tribe or group that they belong to. You hear "offensive to women" often enough, but never "offensive to men." Why is that? Are men hard wired to feel less offense? Or is it that the motive for feeling offended is, more often than not, the hope to gain some kind of political currency or moral upper hand from that offense? There is no political currency to be gained by men who feel that something is offensive to men, so they don't bother expressing it. 


    James
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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 13:43:26 (permalink)


    I've always enjoyed your presence here Bub and I can assure that I wasn't making some stealth commentary about anyone in particular. 


    I like what Tom just said too.



    :-)


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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 14:14:33 (permalink)
    sharke


    tom1


    The fact that some may be overly offended by things that others of us regard as innocuous is no reason ignore their sensibilities.

    Absolutely; but at the same time some people are offended if you say hello to them.     :)

    To all of us: LIGHTEN UP!

    Exactly, in fact I question the whole motive behind feeling "offense" in the first place. I can understand it when someone launches a personal attack on another person, but it's this "group offense" that I question. People who feel offended on behalf of some tribe or group that they belong to. You hear "offensive to women" often enough, but never "offensive to men." Why is that? Are men hard wired to feel less offense? Or is it that the motive for feeling offended is, more often than not, the hope to gain some kind of political currency or moral upper hand from that offense? There is no political currency to be gained by men who feel that something is offensive to men, so they don't bother expressing it. 

    I'd like to point out that this exactly WHY all members, or at least most, of a community should strive to offer gentle feedback.


    There shouldn't be a need to single a person out and profer suspicions that the observation of bad behavior is motivated by self aggrandizement.


    If more people voiced small and gentle opinions when they see the type of actions that we know offend some then there would be no need to dramatize an agenda for the few that do take the time to stop and say "no... that's not polite".


    It's just basic good old fashioned golden rule decency.






    The rationalizations you have offered and the questions you pose serve no purpose but to further misunderstanding... it is a really simple issue.








    Having had the acquaintance of the widest variety of men that I think you could imagine I can tell you that it has been my observation that gentlemen have no hesitation in expressing a recognition of an offense when it serves a greater good.






    best regards,
    mike
















     


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    Jonbouy
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 15:04:27 (permalink)
    mike_mccue
     

    I'd like to point out that this exactly WHY all members, or at least most, of a community should strive to offer gentle feedback.


    There shouldn't be a need to single a person out and profer su****ions that the observation of bad behavior is motivated by self aggrandizement.


    If more people voiced small and gentle opinions when they see the type of actions that we know offend some then there would be no need to dramatize an agenda for the few that do take the time to stop and say "no... that's not polite".


    It's just basic good old fashioned golden rule decency.


    The rationalizations you have offered and the questions you pose serve no purpose but to further misunderstanding... it is a really simple issue.


    Having had the acquaintance of the widest variety of men that I think you could imagine I can tell you that it has been my observation that gentlemen have no hesitation in expressing a recognition of an offense when it serves a greater good.



    The hypocrisy in this post is absolutely laughable, or it would be if it didn't come from somebody as blind to their own liabilities as you constantly seem to be.
     
    I certainly find it offensive that someone that can ridicule and villify others in order to look smarter than them and even when that fact is pointed out discreetly out of the public gaze chooses to continue with that behaviour, should then carry on like he is himself exempt from basic decency, that simple golden rule mentioned here.  Self-aggrandizement seems to me to be behind your entire MO.
     
    I've made no secret since then Mike that you are some kind of fraud when it comes to the conduct of others and I pretty much don't care for your over-blown sense of self, the way you hide behind sarcasm when you talk down to people, that basically you are not a person that I care for much at all.
     
    I tolerate all members of a society that I choose to take part in though, sometimes despite their quirks sometimes because of them, some do and say what I don't like, the important thing is that I don't join in with the stuff I find beneath me, and if it is that far off base then I must question why I'm here not why anyone else is.
     
    Pity all those fine folk you speak so highly of there that some of their character never actually rubbed off on you.
     
    Oh, and was it you that told me to 'FO' the other day when I returned to the forum after being a little poorly.  Ah yes I do believe it was.
     
    So whilst you can probably applaud yourself for not posting puerile pictures that look like genetalia, you certainly can do a good impression even without the pictorial content which I suspect that others could find equally distasteful.
     
    Good times.
    post edited by Jonbouy - 2013/01/18 15:14:59

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    yorolpal
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 15:16:06 (permalink)
    "Having had the acquaintance of the widest variety of men that I think you could imagine I can tell you that it has been my observation that gentlemen have no hesitation in expressing a recognition of an offense when it serves a greater good."
     
     
    I don't care what anyone says...that there's funny.
     

     

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    Jonbouy
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 15:18:35 (permalink)
    Bub


    If someone PM'd you and didn't address it with the person that actually offended them, then it's their own fault. We all have a right to be here, and if we are offended by something, we should address it with the person offending them. Not go crying to someone else and let it fester.

    This has not been the same place for quite some time now. I keep coming here hoping it will get back to what it was, but I think it's too late. It's pretty clear it's not going to be the same place it was.

    Gotta go stare out the window until the wife gets home. Makes for long days I tells ya.
    I'm so with you here Bub, wasn't it a previous intervention of the moral police that killed off all the free flowing wit and repartee that used to constantly buzz around this place?


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    Jonbouy
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 15:20:25 (permalink)
    yorolpal


    "Having had the acquaintance of the widest variety of men that I think you could imagine I can tell you that it has been my observation that gentlemen have no hesitation in expressing a recognition of an offense when it serves a greater good."
     
     
    I don't care what anyone says...that there's funny.
     

     

    It sure provoked a strong reaction from my funny bone...I near fell of this dern chair.
     
     
    That's why I don't like banishment or imposed restraint, it eliminates any of the REAL good extemporay stuff.
     
     
    Each of us ought tend to our own album I say.
    post edited by Jonbouy - 2013/01/18 15:24:18

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    noldar12
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 15:21:06 (permalink)
    Bub, as one who can have a very "off-beat" sense of humor at times, your comments don't bother me at all.

    I think, for those of us who do have concerns, most types of humor are fine.  The thing that is troubling in general is that what one might find funny and appropriate in one's private circle of friends, others in a public forum may find totally out-of-bounds.  The sausage example (which at this point I don't recall seeing) would make for "exhibit A".

    And, no, I am not thinking of the politically correct type of "offense," where if you say one wrong word, the "offended" person goes off.  Though the word is way out of favor now, perhaps the best word that describes what is needed is "decency".

    To close with a personal story: I have a few cousins who have a rather raunchy sense of humor (one I don't share).  The extended family gets together every couple of years for a family reunion.  Many of the cousins don't care for that raunchy sense of humor and during the reunions the cousins with the raunchy sense of humor are very respectful and careful around those who they know don't share their outlook.  As a result, the reunions have always been a great success.

    It is that type of concern that I think Mike and Beagle are raising, and one that I also share.

    Jim
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    drewfx1
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 15:24:57 (permalink)
    Jonbouy


    Bub


    If someone PM'd you and didn't address it with the person that actually offended them, then it's their own fault. We all have a right to be here, and if we are offended by something, we should address it with the person offending them. Not go crying to someone else and let it fester.

    This has not been the same place for quite some time now. I keep coming here hoping it will get back to what it was, but I think it's too late. It's pretty clear it's not going to be the same place it was.

    Gotta go stare out the window until the wife gets home. Makes for long days I tells ya.
    I'm so with you here Bub, wasn't it a previous intervention of the moral police that killed off all the free flowing wit and repartee that used to constantly buzz around this place?
    No.

    It was people ridiculously overreacting to them.

     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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    Jonbouy
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 15:29:07 (permalink)
    noldar12


    It is that type of concern that I think Mike and Beagle are raising, and one that I also share.
    I think also Bub was asking for specifics, some of us don't engage in the lewd kind of humour and it is damaging to say that some are causing offence here without being specific.
     
    I mean we could all be causing offence but refraining from a particular kind of humour and think we are falling under a moral banner that doesn't actually apply.
     
    If you have issue with what someone has posted then take it up with them to avoid the confusing moral guidelines that sometimes get thrown over the forum like a blanket.
     
    If you don't like to confront somebody then report the offending post.
     
    Beagle has just used his conscience to state that he feels like he's fallen below his own standards, that should be example enough to anyone to pick up and run with.

    post edited by Jonbouy - 2013/01/18 15:33:58

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    Beagle
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 15:33:55 (permalink)
    drewfx1


    Jonbouy


    Bub


    If someone PM'd you and didn't address it with the person that actually offended them, then it's their own fault. We all have a right to be here, and if we are offended by something, we should address it with the person offending them. Not go crying to someone else and let it fester.

    This has not been the same place for quite some time now. I keep coming here hoping it will get back to what it was, but I think it's too late. It's pretty clear it's not going to be the same place it was.

    Gotta go stare out the window until the wife gets home. Makes for long days I tells ya.
    I'm so with you here Bub, wasn't it a previous intervention of the moral police that killed off all the free flowing wit and repartee that used to constantly buzz around this place?
    No.

    It was people ridiculously overreacting to them.

    My rememberance wasn't of of "moral police" in the sense of people being offended with threads being questioned.  it was simply what some "didn't like"
     
    objections were (not an exhaustive list): 
    too many "ya" and +1 responses
    too many mash up threads
    too many threads without a "real" subject (according to the one complaining)
    too much "baffoonery"
     
    there were many other complaints.  but the complaints were not based on anything "moral" - it was based on a perceived problem with the direction of the forum from a few individuals.  I could name them, but I have no wish to invoke that incantation.
     
    those who would complain about the subjects I've listed above are not complaining about the morality of the forum.  they were just complaining that it wasn't what they wanted.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #24
    Beepster
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 15:35:18 (permalink)
    I don't post down here much anymore for fear of offending people as I seem to have in the past even though I try to be on my best behavior on this site. I've always been a bit of a salty dog IRL.

    Just wanted ya'll coffee house folks to know that. It's nothing you did. I like the bulk of folks on here. 

    I'll be upstairs talking about inanities and banalities if you need me.

    ;-) 
    #25
    Beagle
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 15:36:06 (permalink)
    thank you JB

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #26
    Jonbouy
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 15:37:13 (permalink)
    Beagle


    drewfx1


    Jonbouy


    Bub


    If someone PM'd you and didn't address it with the person that actually offended them, then it's their own fault. We all have a right to be here, and if we are offended by something, we should address it with the person offending them. Not go crying to someone else and let it fester.

    This has not been the same place for quite some time now. I keep coming here hoping it will get back to what it was, but I think it's too late. It's pretty clear it's not going to be the same place it was.

    Gotta go stare out the window until the wife gets home. Makes for long days I tells ya.
    I'm so with you here Bub, wasn't it a previous intervention of the moral police that killed off all the free flowing wit and repartee that used to constantly buzz around this place?
    No.

    It was people ridiculously overreacting to them.

    My rememberance wasn't of of "moral police" in the sense of people being offended with threads being questioned.  it was simply what some "didn't like"
     
    objections were (not an exhaustive list): 
    too many "ya" and +1 responses
    too many mash up threads
    too many threads without a "real" subject (according to the one complaining)
    too much "baffoonery"
     
    there were many other complaints.  but the complaints were not based on anything "moral" - it was based on a perceived problem with the direction of the forum from a few individuals.  I could name them, but I have no wish to invoke that incantation.
     
    those who would complain about the subjects I've listed above are not complaining about the morality of the forum.  they were just complaining that it wasn't what they wanted.

    I guess I have to recheck my understanding of what 'morality' means then.
     
    I'm thinking it is a code of conduct applied to a society in general, characterised by the fact that it changes over time and is never constant .

    "We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
    In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
    #27
    Jonbouy
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 15:38:49 (permalink)
    drewfx1


    Jonbouy


    Bub


    If someone PM'd you and didn't address it with the person that actually offended them, then it's their own fault. We all have a right to be here, and if we are offended by something, we should address it with the person offending them. Not go crying to someone else and let it fester.

    This has not been the same place for quite some time now. I keep coming here hoping it will get back to what it was, but I think it's too late. It's pretty clear it's not going to be the same place it was.

    Gotta go stare out the window until the wife gets home. Makes for long days I tells ya.
    I'm so with you here Bub, wasn't it a previous intervention of the moral police that killed off all the free flowing wit and repartee that used to constantly buzz around this place?
    No.

    It was people ridiculously overreacting to them.

    I agree with that.
     
    Nonetheless it was a bifurcation point in the forums history.

    "We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
    In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
    #28
    daryl1968
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 15:40:00 (permalink)
    the last round of complaining led to the FSF (where dingbats can be dingbats without any intervention.)
    then there was "monkeygate" in the song forum.
    I've just come to the conclusion that you're all miserable bastards

      
    Music by Staypress 
    Music by the current Mrs Daryl1968
    Music by Fizzy Pickle
    Music by The Forum Monkeys
    #29
    daryl1968
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    Re:Something Mr. McQ brought up in another thread ... 2013/01/18 15:40:16 (permalink)
    oops, forgot to add :)

      
    Music by Staypress 
    Music by the current Mrs Daryl1968
    Music by Fizzy Pickle
    Music by The Forum Monkeys
    #30
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