Sonar & Other DAWs

Comparison from a long time (20 years!) Sonar user:
 
For the first time in 20 years I'm looking at other DAWs.
 
What I learned won't cause me to move over to Cubase.  Yes, the staff editor in Cubase is superior, it handles tied triplets, dotted triplets and 64th notes without a problem.  But Cubase's event list is inferior to Sonar's.   In Sonar you can rename patch names and controller names--and those renamed items show up in the event list.  Not so in Cubase.   Also, I don't believe Cubase is integrated well into Windows, for example, there are no right-click context menus, another thing Sonar does much better.   So I ruled out Cubase and am now waiting for Pro Tools to go 64-bit and for Digital Performer for Windows to be released. 
 
I wrote a letter to Noel Borthwick asking him to please be truthful with me and tell me if Cakewalk is ever planning to improve the staff view.  I know he has no obligation to write back, but it is a bit disappointing that he cannot reply to a 20 year customer.  If I knew that Cakewalk is never going to do anything about the staff view, I'd stop sending bug reports and stop posting on this forum, in other words, I would spend my time more productively.
 
It is good to know that Pro Tools, Cubase and, from what I am learning, Digital Performer all take notation and the staff editor far more seriously than Cakewalk.   In version 7 of DP, for example, there are improvements listed made to the notation editor.   Perhaps in the very near future Sonar will drop the staff view altogether, while the other DAW publishers will move ahead and continue to improve it.  Even Pro Tools staff view handles tied triplets and 64th notes correctly, which is surprising, since PT didn't get into MIDI until later in the game.   It will be interesting to see how things shape up in the next few years.
 
JG
www.jerrygerber.com
 
 

Can't you just use Sibelius?

No personal reply from the CTO? How impertinent of them. What is it you use? Sonar 7? Which would make you a guy who was last a customer nearly five years ago. Well, on that basis, I think it's outrageous that he's not downed tools to enter into correspondence with you. This is obviously highly unusual, and every other company in the world would have been straight on the phone.

The Staff View will not be updated in the foreseeable future

If Cakewalk had any plans to do this, then what was the point of this?

Whatever turns the crank....

It's pretty good to my use so far, however, I haven't gotten to a point of really exhausting it... Yet

Jonbouy

Bristol_Jonesey


The Staff View will not be updated in the foreseeable future

If Cakewalk had any plans to do this, then what was the point of this?

How well does that work?

Anybody know?

 
 
It works, but not very well unless someone has learned how to tweak things better than I have.
 
I have exported XML to Sibelus and beats get messed up, but Lyrics and chords are there.  Exporting to Notion3 the beats/notation look real good, I believe lyrics xfer fine but chords do not.
 
I have found a way to rewire Notion3 to X1,  but it only works with one input (Midi Channel) at a time.   
 
So A mixed bag.
 
I was under the impression that one of the reasons we were going to go thru the growing pains of X1 was to allow the bakers to get to things like Staff View.  The code for staff view was difficult to deal with and X1 would allow somewhat of a new start.   

The other element here, of course, is that using a staff view as data entry for a sequencer is a very non-trivial problem, given that sequencing is a very literal business, and notation is a very interpretative one. You could still do better than the current view, of course, but I can also see why it's something that sequencer makers have largely abandoned.

I completely understand your feelings about the Staff view.  You may be disappointed in ProTools, however (depending on your needs).  It is a much simpler program and optimized more for audio recording and editing.  If you do heavy arranging and sequencing, it might not have what you need.

As another poster mentioned, support will not be as good.

Sonar has bugs like all large software packages, but some find it more stable that other DAWs.  I have crashes, but they are always related to Melodyne (which I still use anyway).

They still make Digital Performer?   : D

John T


No personal reply from the CTO? How impertinent of them. What is it you use? Sonar 7? Which would make you a guy who was last a customer nearly five years ago. Well, on that basis, I think it's outrageous that he's not downed tools to enter into correspondence with you. This is obviously highly unusual, and every other company in the world would have been straight on the phone.

John, Do you have to come across like a jerk all the time?   I was engaged in an email conversation with the CTO but you don't know about that.   Since you've posted 4251 times on here, I gather you don't have much of a life and spend far too much time berating people on forums instead of making music.   I've see you do it to others many times.    I guess hiding behind a computer gives you the confidence to be the way you are.   I always wonder how guys like you treat people in real life when some accountability is in order....Now, take some deep breaths and think before you write because I promise you, I will not be reading it.
JG

Interesting to know that you're happy to publicly complain about private conversations you're having with people. Nothing jerky about that. You're an example to us all.

John T


No personal reply from the CTO? How impertinent of them. What is it you use? Sonar 7? Which would make you a guy who was last a customer nearly five years ago. Well, on that basis, I think it's outrageous that he's not downed tools to enter into correspondence with you. This is obviously highly unusual, and every other company in the world would have been straight on the phone.

Kreative: It happens sometimes that executives respond to their customers, with some software companies. 

I've twice this past week received apologies from Troels Fohlman, British Academy Award winner and founder and owner of 8Dio software, for downloading problems I've had with their servers.

I can name several other companies where executives roll up their sleeves and actually talk to the lower class customer base to converse with them. Steve Jobs was known to once in a while get on the phone with customer service calls for Apple.

It does occur to me that customers are the reason that businesses stay in business.

John T, do you ever have anything but caustic remarks for people?

John T


Interesting to know that you're happy to publicly complain about private conversations you're having with people. Nothing jerky about that. You're an example to us all.

Yeah, seriously. The last time someone started talking about private conversations publically here they got banned.
 
I can't seriously believe Jerry is calling John T a jerk.... maybe it's the whole San Fran crowd taking themselves too seriously again and not getting English wit.

I hope all who want and need better notation tools in Sonar, gets them... I'm not one of them, but I see the point.