musicroom
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 14:45:13
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John
frankly, i don't get it, no, not from a user perspective... 8-/ ... i'm not trolling, i do buy channel strip plugins, i honestly don't get the advantage over a track template/project template; i also use more than one host, it would be nice to spread it about a bit (ymmv)
Although CW has never made their included plugins exclusive to Sonar; please show me where other DAW makers have done the same? What you are saying is you want CW to provide you free plugins so you can run them in another DAW is that correct? Because PC is integrated in X1 producer that to you is unfair?
Can you use Cubase's included plugin's in any other DAW. How about Logic or Studio One are their plugins open to any DAW? Maybe Reaper perhaps. No none of those. Well maybe FL Studio no not that one either. How about Samplitude? Are there any? I sure would like to know. Yet just because CW decides to create a channel strip that is exclusive to X1 Producer suddenly CW is "locking out" other DAWs. Isn't that just a little absurd?
One way to avoid the being "locked in" to PC is get the Studio version and let us that like PC alone.
For clarity sake - Reaper does offer their rea-plugs for use in other daws... But I support your overall point here.
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Jonbouy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 14:47:35
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John
John T
John
Although CW has never made their included plugins exclusive to Sonar
Some are, aren't they? I can't quite remember now, but I think the bundled Boost 11 is or used to be. And a couple of others.
No none that CW had control of. Only third party plugins were locked to Sonar but not many of those either. Boost 11 will run in a host that supports VST.
So 'Yes' was the answer there then... 
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 14:50:29
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No doubt... LP64 EQ and LP64 Compressor are great fun at DAW parties.
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Bub 
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 14:54:15
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John
Bub
There's a lot of people who disagree.
No there are not. Its a vocal minority. At the same time they drown out with hyperbole those that do want improvements but do so with logic and reason.
Yes John, actually there are a lot of people who disagree. The problem is, when someone speaks up against Cakewalk they are attacked by a group of fanboi's, and most people don't have skin as thick as I and a few others to stick around and take it so you never hear back from them. "Fanbois" is the name you call those that try to counter nonsense with facts.
No, Fanboi's are the guys who tell you something is great even though they know it's not. Fanboi's are the guys who say, "Works great here, never had a single problem." when they know there is a list of over 200 bugs ... that's what a Fanboi is. Do you fall in to that category? I can dig up some quotes from you if you need your memory joggled. If you understood the slightest bit about business, you would know you concentrate on the people who are unhappy, not the people who are happy. Yes men take you under. People who tell you what's wrong, make you stronger. The rest of your post is just digging in for an argument and it's really old man. I mean ... really old ... and I'm just not going to get dragged in to it anymore. Thanks, Bub
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Jonbouy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 14:54:44
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Jonbouy
stevec
So, it's a plus to be able to skin an FX chain to make it look cool and that's going to help modern music production houses, but not being able to customize the Tool Bar is an added plus?
Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I'm hoping that the ability to skin the FX Chain is just the beginning...
It already will be more than that it allows you to make a compound effect out of any combination of VST's you already have and make that controllable/automatable from a simple UI front end, whilst still having individual access to each contained effect.
FX Chains 2 willl be useful have no doubt.
I can also see the usefulness of the modular PC too even if it is nothing ground breaking, but having your bread and butter DSP's right under your nose on every track, integrated into the familiar GUI is going to be useful to some, especially if they like the add-on modules and I reckon given the popularity of the current PC they likely will. Not for me perhaps as I like to keep the same processors available to more than one app.
I have reservations about how it's being marketed not the content of what seems to be quite a useful bump up in functionality. Which isn't to say it's not worth what they are charging for it.
But that's just me.
I meant to add the controls you assign to the UI on the FX chains 2 unit will also be customisable. i.e you will be able to assign the functions you want each knob or button to perform.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Jonbouy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 14:55:56
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mike_mccue
No doubt... LP64 EQ and LP64 Compressor are great fun at DAW parties.
They haven't even been required to add to the jollity found here.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Bub
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 14:56:32
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mike_mccue
No doubt... LP64 EQ and LP64 Compressor are great fun at DAW parties.
I like the Cakewalk Analyst at parties ... at least it has shiny colored things that move around. :)
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Jonbouy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 14:57:53
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No there are not. Its a vocal minority. At the same time they drown out with hyperbole those that do want improvements but do so with logic and reason.
John says this, yet insisted on trying to drown me out like I was some kind of heretic all weekend. He even stooped to bare faced lies and insults. He's a funny guy.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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John T
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 14:58:01
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Bub
most people don't have skin as thick as I
This magical incantation just transformed my entire being into a massive raised eyebrow.
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John
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:00:07
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Bub
John
Because PC is integrated in X1 producer that to you is unfair?
Yes.
Can you use Cubase's included plugin's in any other DAW. How about Logic or Studio One are their plugins open to any DAW?
The difference is, you didn't pay for an upgrade that allowed you to add those effects, then get charged again for the effects.
I have no idea what you are talking about. What Cakewalk has done is created an environment where you buy a 3rd party plug-in that only works in Sonar. That's not right.
Can you show me where that is a fact? How do you know this? Often a plugin developer will sell a plugin with all its variations. It will run on a Mac or in PT as well as in Sonar. This means they provide multiple versions. Even CW does that to some degree. One way to avoid the being "locked in" to PC is get the Studio version and let us that like PC alone.
The whole reason people buy the Producer version is to get all the effects and synth's. Now if you don't want the Pro Channel, you have to give up everything else. How is that right to us?
Then don't opt for Studio and simply ignore PC. There are things in X1 that I have no use for. So what.
Why didn't they just make the Pro Channel an option like they did with Expanded? Everyone would have been happy because they would have had a choice then. And at least at that point, they would have had a legitimate reason for charging you for the upgrade ...
How do you know the expanded PC will not be fully in X2? As to why they added PC to X1 my guess is they thought users would like it. For most users they were right. What do you think CW thought when they included PC in the Producer version? We'll trap them? LOL I sort of like the notion that X1 has things that no other DAW has.
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Jonbouy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:00:53
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John T
Bub
most people don't have skin as thick as I
This magical incantation just transformed my entire being into a massive raised eyebrow.
As did the one I just quoted above your post there. You won't be able to see the foreheads for the brows if this thread gets a couple more pages
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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John T
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:01:25
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I don't see what's intrinsically ethically bad about selling add ons that only work with one program. If it's poor value to you, don't buy it, that's fine. But "it's wrong"? What?
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:02:14
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"massive raised eyebrow."
Call it what ever you like.
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John
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:05:39
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Jonbouy
John
John T
John
Although CW has never made their included plugins exclusive to Sonar
Some are, aren't they? I can't quite remember now, but I think the bundled Boost 11 is or used to be. And a couple of others.
No none that CW had control of. Only third party plugins were locked to Sonar but not many of those either. Boost 11 will run in a host that supports VST.
So 'Yes' was the answer there then...
No is the answer. You should know this. Can you list a single plugin from CW that came with Sonar Producer that would not run in another host?
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Keni
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:08:47
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The two Sonic Timeworks plugins were locked to Sonar (CompX and EQ which I still use a lot)... Keni [edit] BTW, they (Timeworks) also sell these plugins as regular (unlocked) vst's [end edit]
post edited by Keni - 2011/09/21 15:09:55
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Bub
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:10:42
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John
Bub
John
Can you show me where that is a fact? How do you know this? Often a plugin developer will sell a plugin with all its variations. It will run on a Mac or in PT as well as in Sonar. This means they provide multiple versions. Even CW does that to some degree.
For the love of God John ... that's what this whole argument is about! LOL! I'll try to simplify ... Upgrading the Pro Channel with Expanded allows end users to use 3rd party plug-in's. The problem is, those 3rd party plug-in's only work if you have Producer Expanded. To me ... that's not a benefit, that's a limitation. If I like a plug-in enough to spend money on it, I don't want a stripped down version of it that I can only use with Sonar Producer Expanded. I want a version I can use with Reaper, Studio One, or any other DAW that supports a VST. Do you get it now? Then don't opt for Studio and simply ignore PC. There are things in X1 that I have no use for. So what.
Normally I would agree 100% with you on this, but unfortunately the Pro Channel has not been very reliable in staying turned off, or on for that matter and I don't have the option to remove it unless I hack the installation. Why didn't they just make the Pro Channel an option like they did with Expanded? Everyone would have been happy because they would have had a choice then. And at least at that point, they would have had a legitimate reason for charging you for the upgrade ...
How do you know the expanded PC will not be fully in X2?
If you follow the current upgrade path, it clearly shows you will have to upgrade to Producer Expanded or Producer Suite to have the added functionality. I asked for that to be clarified but haven't been answered yet. Brandon? Update please.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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John
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:11:47
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Yes John, actually there are a lot of people who disagree. The problem is, when someone speaks up against Cakewalk they are attacked by a group of fanboi's, and most people don't have skin as thick as I and a few others to stick around and take it so you never hear back from them. A lot? How many? Seeing that X1 is the biggest seller in CW history and that would be in the thousands or hundred thousands. How are the very few with constant negative comments on this board a lot? Plus there are quite a number here that like X1.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:11:53
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John T
I don't see what's intrinsically ethically bad about selling add ons that only work with one program. If it's poor value to you, don't buy it, that's fine. But "it's wrong"? What?
There is nothing wrong with that... if a company can deliver it's core product competently. That is the whole issue... Cakewalk doesn't seem to focus on it's core product. It seems to me, as a customer, that Cakewalk is attempting to generate cash flow year after year but it never zeros in on it's core product's weak spots. The Pro Channel is simply and unfortunately short sighted all the way around. Not only is the end user limited by an arbitrary and redundant proprietary system but it's potential for use as an add on category revenue generator for Cakewalk is strictly defined by the subset of DAW users who use SONAR... and not just SONAR but SONAR X1 Producer Expanded. It's like a stock analysts nightmare scenario... the perfect storm. It seems clever... but stuff like this has been done badly time and time again. Oh well. The ship has sailed. When can I send in the money? all the best, mike
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Bub
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:14:37
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mike_mccue
"massive raised eyebrow."
Call it what ever you like.
I suppose he'll claim it's a uni-brow.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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John
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:15:15
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For the love of God John ... that's what this whole argument is about! LOL! I'll try to simplify ... Upgrading the Pro Channel with Expanded allows end users to use 3rd party plug-in's. The problem is, those 3rd party plug-in's only work if you have Producer Expanded. To me ... that's not a benefit, that's a limitation. If I like a plug-in enough to spend money on it, I don't want a stripped down version of it that I can only use with Sonar Producer Expanded. I want a version I can use with Reaper, Studio One, or any other DAW that supports a VST. Do you get it now? I've gotten it all along. I just don't see a problem any more then having PC in the first place. You are not limited in any way. The FX bin is still there. What it does give one is choice.
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Bub
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:20:14
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John
Bub
For the love of God John ... that's what this whole argument is about! LOL! I'll try to simplify ... Upgrading the Pro Channel with Expanded allows end users to use 3rd party plug-in's. The problem is, those 3rd party plug-in's only work if you have Producer Expanded. To me ... that's not a benefit, that's a limitation. If I like a plug-in enough to spend money on it, I don't want a stripped down version of it that I can only use with Sonar Producer Expanded. I want a version I can use with Reaper, Studio One, or any other DAW that supports a VST. Do you get it now? I've gotten it all along. I just don't see a problem any more then having PC in the first place.
You are not limited in any way. The FX bin is still there. What it does give one is choice.
Definition of Fanboi: * * See response to Bub above.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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John
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:25:35
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Bub I don't think you understand The word fanboi or fanboy is a derogatory word and is in the same vain as any slur on some one. It is name calling. It is much the same as an ethnic slur. If you continue to use it it will be reported as such.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:26:53
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Serious question...
Will I have to purchase 'Expanded' to get a scrollable Pro-Channel?
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Jonbouy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:29:40
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SteveStrummerUK
Serious question...
Will I have to purchase 'Expanded' to get a scrollable Pro-Channel?
Yes, so I was told a few pages back by Brandon. edit: see this post. http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2391906
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/09/21 15:32:38
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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John
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:30:32
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SteveStrummerUK
Serious question...
Will I have to purchase 'Expanded' to get a scrollable Pro-Channel?
I think so. Or you could wait for X2.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:30:52
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I believe the definitive answer is
"yes" if you want it right away
or
"maybe not" if you are willing to wait to find out if you don't have to buy SONAR X1 Expanded to use the scrolling feature in PC.
The good news is that for many people it will be a cheaper solution than having to buy a new display monitor. ;-)
best regards,
mike
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:31:28
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Fanboi's are the guys who say, "Works great here, never had a single problem." when they know there is a list of over 200 bugs ... that's what a Fanboi is
N-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o...... tell me that isn't the defintion, I wanna be a fanboi, I do, I do, I do - but I've reported bugs so I can't be?  The whole reason people buy the Producer version is to get all the effects and synth's. Now if you don't want the Pro Channel, you have to give up everything else. How is that right to us?
Hey, I love this logic. Let's have completely customised versions of X1. I only really wanted Session Drummer 3 and the PC but hell CW have made me have True Pianos - I didn't want it. They've forced me to have Dimension Pro as well.  I think it's disgusting personally, I'm so mad I'm going to start swimming across the Atlantic to Boston tonight to complain. I'll see you all in about 6 months, now where are my swimming trunks..............
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Bub
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:32:50
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John
Bub I don't think you understand The word fanboi or fanboy is a derogatory word and is in the same vain as any slur on some one. It is name calling. It is much the same as an ethnic slur. If you continue to use it it will be reported as such.
I'd love to meet you and buy you a beer some time John. LOL! I bet you're a trip to hang out with! LOL!
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Jonbouy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:34:39
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Jonbouy
SteveStrummerUK
Serious question...
Will I have to purchase 'Expanded' to get a scrollable Pro-Channel?
Yes, so I was told a few pages back by Brandon.
edit: see this post.
http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2391906
*A noise traversing bump for Strummy's question.*
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Bub
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:35:34
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FastBikerBoy
The whole reason people buy the Producer version is to get all the effects and synth's. Now if you don't want the Pro Channel, you have to give up everything else. How is that right to us?
I think it's disgusting personally, I'm so mad I'm going to start swimming across the Atlantic to Boston tonight to complain. I'll see you all in about 6 months, now where are my swimming trunks..............
I think John had them last ... check with him.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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